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Double G
06-12-2006, 08:38 AM
Coria is definetly the best clay courter because he had the speed, touch, spin, angle, control, court coverage, strategy, and heart.

Look at his 04 run at the Frenxh and you will see how graceful he is on the surface and his wise moves on it. Man, I just can't believe he cramped up against Gaudio

Anyone else you think is the beat? Let us know

The Pusher Terminator
06-12-2006, 08:42 AM
Coria is definetly the best clay courter because he had the speed, touch, spin, angle, control, court coverage, strategy, and heart.

Look at his 04 run at the Frenxh and you will see how graceful he is on the surface and his wise moves on it. Man, I just can't believe he cramped up against Gaudio

Borg is probably the best clay courter of all time....the jury is still out on Nadal. Two things, however, are for sure:

1. Nadal has the world record of straight clay court wins and at the tender age of 20 (but he did it at 19!!!).

2. Nadal is a much better clay courter than Coria can ever hope to be.

croatian sensation
06-12-2006, 08:44 AM
Coria is definetly the best clay courter because he had the speed, touch, spin, angle, control, court coverage, strategy, and heart.

Look at his 04 run at the Frenxh and you will see how graceful he is on the surface and his wise moves on it. Man, I just can't believe he cramped up against Gaudio

Anyone else you think is the beat? Let us know

My avatar says it all...;)

And btw. he HAS all that... only he lost it for the moment...but he'll come back.

Andres
06-12-2006, 08:45 AM
Borg isn't in the poll.
From those from the poll, I'll go with Kuerten, with Nadal chasing him very closely.
After all, Kuerten did got to #1 and won 3 FO :)

Andres
06-12-2006, 08:47 AM
My avatar says it all...;)

And btw. he HAS all that... only he lost it for the moment...but he'll come back.
"Coria is definetly the best clay courter because he had the speed, touch, spin, angle, control, court coverage, strategy, and heart."

He just lost the strategy and the heart. The rest is still there. His return of serve is even stronger now. It's a shame he refuses to go to a psychologist. Coria's game with Cañas mind would be a clay beast! The same clay beast pre-2005.

The Pusher Terminator
06-12-2006, 08:48 AM
Borg isn't in the poll.
From those from the poll, I'll go with Kuerten, with Nadal chasing him very closely.
After all, Kuerten did got to #1 and won 3 FO :)

I was trying to be nice. this is an idiotic poll. How can you ask who the greatest clay courter is of all time and not put Borg & Vilas on the list!!! And no offense to Fed fans .....but Roger should not be on this list all!!!

Andres
06-12-2006, 08:52 AM
I was trying to be nice. this is an idiotic poll. How can you ask who the greatest clay courter is of all time and not put Borg & Vilas on the list!!! And no offense to Fed fans .....but Roger should not be on this list all!!!
The poll has only "modern" players, who played late 90's and 00's.
Among them all, I pick Kuerten.

Double G
06-12-2006, 08:55 AM
Back then, the competition and level of Borg was bad and his game would not last between the clay courters of today. Coria's only weakness was his power. Keurten only had depth and topspin some movement and precision but Coria will frustrate the hell out of him. Ferrero was pretty great but never had a a backhand or strategy.

oscar_2424
06-12-2006, 08:58 AM
Is tough to decide they are all great players, but, if i have to choose it would be Ferrero or GUGa

MasterTS
06-12-2006, 09:10 AM
How obvious of susan's vote.

Moose Malloy
06-12-2006, 09:13 AM
Back then, the competition and level of Borg was bad and his game would not last between the clay courters of today. Coria's only weakness was his power. Keurten only had depth and topspin some movement and precision but Coria will frustrate the hell out of him. Ferrero was pretty great but never had a a backhand or strategy.

14 year olds are funny. Guga destroyed Fed at '04 French, more badly than Nadal could ever dream of. He hit a ton of winners, was an offensive claycourt player. Could serve a lot of aces as well, even on clay.
And Guga was injury riddled, had played very few matches that year, while Fed was Hamburg champion, so he had no business winning that day. If he was in his prime ala '00/'01 Fed would lose to him every time on clay.

Coria had a nice run, but Muster, Bruguera, Kuerten, Ferrero, Nadal all hit much heavier & bigger balls. And are all much fitter than Coria. That Coria was able to do what he did without heavy topspin is pretty amazing & shows how talented he was. But he was a bit lucky not to run into those guys.

chiru
06-12-2006, 10:10 AM
where the hell is borg and vilas?

Tchocky
06-12-2006, 10:23 AM
You've left out so many guys in your poll. Did you just start watching tennis in the past couple of years?

Chosen One
06-12-2006, 10:26 AM
14 year olds are funny. Guga destroyed Fed at '04 French, more badly than Nadal could ever dream of. He hit a ton of winners, was an offensive claycourt player. Could serve a lot of aces as well, even on clay.
And Guga was injury riddled, had played very few matches that year, while Fed was Hamburg champion, so he had no business winning that day. If he was in his prime ala '00/'01 Fed would lose to him every time on clay.

Coria had a nice run, but Muster, Bruguera, Kuerten, Ferrero, Nadal all hit much heavier & bigger balls. And are all much fitter than Coria. That Coria was able to do what he did without heavy topspin is pretty amazing & shows how talented he was. But he was a bit lucky not to run into those guys.
lol, Federer was obviously having a bad day. How can you say that Coria is not fitter than the other players?

knasty131
06-12-2006, 10:30 AM
only current players?!

Honestlybad
06-12-2006, 10:31 AM
Of all time?

Where is Muster?

skip1969
06-12-2006, 10:32 AM
drumroll, please!

and the best clay-courter of all time is . . er . . . i mean . . . of the last ten years is . . yeah, yeah, that's the ticket . . .

federerhoogenbandfan
06-12-2006, 10:35 AM
14 year olds are funny. Guga destroyed Fed at '04 French, more badly than Nadal could ever dream of. He hit a ton of winners, was an offensive claycourt player. Could serve a lot of aces as well, even on clay.
And Guga was injury riddled, had played very few matches that year, while Fed was Hamburg champion, so he had no business winning that day. If he was in his prime ala '00/'01 Fed would lose to him every time on clay.

You cant base everything off one match. That is as dumb as the people who try to make anything out of the Wimbledon match between a raw Federer and a declining Sampras(although one who beat a string of top players to reach the U.S Open final that year). It was clear Federer was not playing up to par in that match to anybody who watched it,and Kuerten probably played one of the best matches he has since his hip surgery has dropped him from ever being a huge force in the game ever again. They also played on clay in 2002 in the quarters of Hamburg, and Kuerten was still past his 00-01 prime, but alot closer then 2004, and Federer was very raw and undeveloped. Federer won the best 2-out-of-3 match in 3 sets, pretty comfortably in the 3rd set.

I would certainly favor Kuerten in his prime over Federer in his prime on clay but if Moya has a 6-2, 6-0 win on clay over Kuerten in his prime, if Michael Russel had a match point to beat Kuerten in straight sets in the 4th round of the 2001 French Open where he won his 3rd French title, if Kafelnikov took Kuerten to 5 sets 2 of the 3 times they played at the French Open(the other was a 4-setter)then Federer most certainly would not have no shot of ever beating Kuerten in his prime on clay.

The Pusher Terminator
06-12-2006, 12:40 PM
Back then, the competition and level of Borg was bad and his game would not last between the clay courters of today. Coria's only weakness was his power. Keurten only had depth and topspin some movement and precision but Coria will frustrate the hell out of him. Ferrero was pretty great but never had a a backhand or strategy.

I completely agree that Borgs competition was bad! But that does not take away from th fact that Borg was truly awesome! Clearly better than Coria or anyone else in the history of tennis. Nadal has impressed the hell out of me and at this rate he will be the greatest....but he needs more time. Certainly Nadal is the best 20 year old clay courter to have ever played the game. Not even Borg had as many straight win at 20 or at any other age. Whats more unbelievable is that Nadal had to deal with Fed!!!!

unjugon
06-12-2006, 12:54 PM
Guga. Best.

Hes coming back in late July...watch out!

ACE of Hearts
06-12-2006, 01:27 PM
I like Kuerten but i think Nadal would have beaten him if he was in his prime and healthy.

dmastous
06-12-2006, 01:30 PM
I don't see Thomas Muster. He was unbeatable on Clay.
Also, Kent Carlson (from the 1980s) was a guy who could play tennis on a volleyball court. I think if he hadn't been injured so much he would have been on that list as well.

Dan

LeftyServe
06-12-2006, 04:13 PM
I don't see Thomas Muster. He was unbeatable on Clay.
Also, Kent Carlson (from the 1980s) was a guy who could play tennis on a volleyball court. I think if he hadn't been injured so much he would have been on that list as well.

Dan

Kent was a terrific player, sidelined just as he was hitting his prime. But what about Wilander?

aramis
06-12-2006, 06:39 PM
Ferrero:
Can do everything Coria can do, but has bigger groundstrokes and bigger serve. Plus, he had the freakin sick whiplash forehand...man, that shot was awesome. Too bad chicken pox and injuries ruined him just when he was really becoming an all surface threat; he would have dominated the 04 clay season, in which case Coria wouldn't be in this poll.

tlm
06-12-2006, 06:49 PM
Nadal is close+he isnt even in his prime yet.

migjam
06-12-2006, 07:01 PM
My vote is with Muster.

ShooterMcMarco
06-12-2006, 07:04 PM
i haven't seen much of the others, but nadal on clay seems pretty much unbeatable.

FiveO
06-12-2006, 08:18 PM
Replying solely to the thread title: Bjorn Borg

He was the fastest player while possessing unimaginable endurance with a resting heart rate of <40, i.e. "Secretariat". He possessed the patience of a vulture waiting for something to die. Equally strong and passed equally well off either wing. Well above average serve with which to win freebies and would usually match the best servers of his day in terms of aces/winners and percentages. He played such dominant clay court tennis so proficiently that he merely took his clay court game to other surfaces and beat the best specialists on those surfaces with it in spite of "the limitations" his game placed on him, according to every expert. 6 RG's, domination of the sea of clay courters when the US Open and all it's warm up tourneys switched to clay in the form of har-tru in the mid-70's and ownership of the second best clay courter, in Vilas, who once held a consecutive clay court match/title streak rivalling Nadal's today.

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Of the limited list:

Coria? Not in my opinion. Talented? Yes. Creative. Huge liability on the serve. Questionable psyche and resolve. Small man vs. big men. Middleweight vs. Heavyweights. Flashes of brilliance. Glimpses. Eventually wilted under physical and/or psychological pressures of 7 rounds or a season. Results bare this out IMO.

Again, off the limited list, for me it comes down to Kuerten or Nadal.

Kuerten a different clay-courter. Hit a ball more like Lendl than a traditional topspin clay-courter but moved more like Borg. Moved aggressively forward when passing. Didn't hit passes by design from the back stop. Big enough serve and had the ability to end points as demonstrated by his ability to beat the best fast courters on their own surfaces aside from grass. 3 RG's.

Nadal. Borg-like in being a physical specimen and his ability to move. Strong, again like Borg. Dogged determination coupled with the ability to keep the ball above and uncomfortably out of an opponent's comfort zone, again very Borg-like. Average serve made much more effective than otherwise, in that he is left handed.

Prime v. Prime, Kuerten v. Nadal? Kuerten. Not a good match-up for Nadal. Freebies off the serve and the ability to thwart Nadal's fh with perhaps the best bh, especially dtl, that there may have ever been, would tip the balance IMO. Only injury stopped him from achieving more.

dmastous
06-12-2006, 08:27 PM
Kent was a terrific player, sidelined just as he was hitting his prime. But what about Wilander?
Wilander was great. A great clay courter, a great all around player. A Hall of Famer (saw it meself :D). But he was beatable on clay.
Yes he won 2 French Opens, But he wasn't as dominate in doing so as Muster, or Nadal or some of the others. Except that thing of beauty against Leconte. What was he, 98% first serves in that final?.
They talk about Nadal's 60 match streak on clay, but Muster had two 50 plus match win streaks on clay. And Carlson, at his peak, was virtually unbeatable on clay. The only thing that stopped him was his body.

theace21
06-12-2006, 08:41 PM
where the hell is borg and vilas?
You can't have a list with out those 2 guys.

Turning Pro
06-13-2006, 01:15 AM
All i'm going to say is if Coria beat Gaudio at the French that year then it would be a different story now.Maybe.

BreakPoint
06-13-2006, 01:37 AM
Hey guys, hasn't this been discussed ad nauseam already recently?

Here: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=97001

brucie
06-13-2006, 01:53 AM
i voted nadal, but vilas should be an option, however would still vote nadal!

federerhoogenbandfan
06-13-2006, 06:31 AM
A list without players like Wilanders, Borg, Rosewall, and Lendl as options is a joke. Borg is the hands down winner for me BTW.

Eviscerator
06-13-2006, 08:55 AM
:rolleyes:

I would have liked to vote in this poll, but you left off several of the greatest so I will not bother.

baseliner
06-13-2006, 09:03 AM
If the question is who at their prime was teh best clay courter, the answer is not listed on your poll. Thomas (the beast) Muster, hands down. At his best he was untouchable on clay. Physically intimidating. Mentally dominant.

sotua
06-13-2006, 09:05 AM
Coria's only weakness was his power. Keurten only had depth and topspin some movement and precision but Coria will frustrate the hell out of him.

Oh really?

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/headtohead/head2head.asp?player1=kuerten&player2=coria

s_andrean
06-13-2006, 09:09 AM
One that hasn't been mentioned yet... sergei bruguera.. he was considered almost unbeatable on clay when he was at his prime...

Rabbit
06-13-2006, 09:42 AM
Oh really?

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/headtohead/head2head.asp?player1=kuerten&player2=coria

Sweet!


Best clay courter of all time would have to be the guy who only lost two matches at Roland Garros over the 8 years he played it, wound up 42 - 2. The only two matches he lost were to the same guy, Adriano Panatta. This same guy won the Italian several times. He won Monte Carlo several times. Hell, he won everything there was to win on red dirt several times.

B * O * R * G