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View Full Version : Should the ATP bring back bonus points?


Moose Malloy
06-13-2006, 11:39 AM
I just read this at tennis-x:

From X-Discussion boarder ChrisM: "I'd say Fed vs Nadal cries out for the return of bonus/quality points. I didn't think it was such a great idea when they took them away. Rafter defended his U.S. Open title in 1998, and actually garnered fewer ranking points because the bonus points were gone. He just happened to beat the world #1 at the '98 Open, and didn't get the 100 extra points for that. Nadal has beaten the world #1 four times this year, but because of the time of year and his points load from last year (defending titles), he has absolutely nothing to show for his trouble in the race for #1. In fact, he's fallen farther behind because Federer's made so many clay finals. Beating Federer four times would be 400 extra points...nearly as much as an extra Masters series event, and while this seems shocking (partly because it's UNHEARD OF to beat the #1 four times) it does reflect the status of the accomplishment."

http://www.tennis-x.com/story/2006-06-13/d.php

Hops
06-13-2006, 12:05 PM
Yes, they should bring back bonus points, ridiculous that ATP eliminated them. Clarification on when this happened - they were dropped when new ranking system was introduced in 2000. The Rafter reference is incorrect; he earned bonus points for beating Sampras in 1998. He beat #2 Chang in 1997 and got nearly the same amount for that.

unjugon
06-13-2006, 12:50 PM
Why did they take them out?

Hops
06-13-2006, 01:14 PM
Why did they take them out?

They were not interested in creating an accurate ranking system; rather a rank system that was more 'fan friendly'. So eliminate the bonus points, bury the true (entry) rankings, and hype the phony 'Race' rankings.

Idiots.

Moose Malloy
06-13-2006, 01:43 PM
Hops, what would be the ranking difference between Federer & Nadal if they kept the old system?

HollerOne5
06-13-2006, 01:57 PM
Hops, what would be the ranking difference between Federer & Nadal if they kept the old system?

Its hard to say. You'd have to go back over the past 52 weeks and include the victories each player had over top players. BUT, its obvious that the ranking gap would definitely be shortened. Nadal has 4 wins over Federer in that time period, plus multiple victories over Ljubicic, Gaudio, Robredo, Coria, and victories over about 10 more top 30 players.

Of course Federer has wins over these players as well, but those alone would not close the gap over the additional points that Nadal would have from beating Federer alone 4 times.

Honestly, his accomplishment of beating the world number one 4 times this year should be factored in to his ranking, considering the fact that NO ONE else on tour has been able to do the same thing.

tlm
06-13-2006, 02:17 PM
That is my point about this system, it sucks.Nadal has 1 more title this year than fed+has beat him 4 times in finals+he loses ground.If that doesnt prove this ranking system is a joke what does?

Hops
06-13-2006, 04:00 PM
That is my point about this system, it sucks.Nadal has 1 more title this year than fed+has beat him 4 times in finals+he loses ground.If that doesnt prove this ranking system is a joke what does?

it proves you don't know how the ranking system works more than anything else.

Hops
06-13-2006, 04:17 PM
Hops, what would be the ranking difference between Federer & Nadal if they kept the old system?

Nadal might be slightly closer, but let's not kid ourselves here. If you really believe player #1 with 3 slams and 1 slam final s/b ranked below player #2 with 1 slam and zippo in the other 3 slams, with lesser titles comparable, just because player #2 has the whammy on player #1 ... well, not many are going to agree. To take this to logical extreme,

Nadal > Federer (4-0 over past year)
Blake > Nadal (2-0 over past year)
Ancic > Blake (2-0 over past year)
Nieminen > Ancic (2-0 over past year)
Vliegen > Nieminen (2-0 over past year)

all hail Kristof Vliegen, the real #1 :rolleyes:

fastdunn
06-13-2006, 04:42 PM
I'll be really surprised if Federer maintains similar level in 2007 or 2008.

FiveO
06-13-2006, 05:09 PM
From what I could quickly find, Federer has probably extended his lead since last year. Aside from losing his title at Dubai (-90 pts.) and not defending at Hamburg (-500 pts) he has defended and/or bettered his results from 2005.

Winning the AO............= +300
R/U at RG....................= +250
R/U at Monte Carlo.......= +225
R/U at Rome................= +350

Dubai/Hamburg...........= (-590)

Fed's Net Gain in 2006...=+535 over last year at this time.

He's distanced himself and I believe rightfully so because he's actually improved his results in the first two majors of the year and overall. I always disliked the bonus point system. I felt was too artificial. Extra points for a win over a higher ranked player? What about bonus points for playing opponents ranked higher by surface or a pro rated points for a retirement or the higher ranked player playing through injury? Again just too artificial for me. I think the higher ranked guy is under enough artificial pressure as it is, being forced to defend his points from the prior year. The higher the guy is ranked the more pressure is applied.

Fed will have a hard enough time defending his titles and points amassed in the second half of '05. Nadal has plenty of room to add points at the last two majors over last year. If Rafa does, he will close the gap considerably no matter if Fed defends or not.

5

exruda
06-13-2006, 05:15 PM
Nadal has plenty of room to add points at the last two majors over last year. If Rafa does, he will close the gap considerably no matter if Fed defends or not.

Exactly.
Are all of you ranking-changers scared that Nadal will never reach the no 1 spot as long as Fed is on tour, or what? If he's really better -- he will, what's the problem?

superman1
06-13-2006, 06:39 PM
Nadal skipped the AO and won the French. Federer won the AO and got to the finals of the French. Federer won the Pac Life, Nadal got to the semis. Federer won Nasdaq, Nadal crashed out in the first round. Nadal won Monte Carlo and Rome, Federer got to the finals in both.

Obviously Federer has had better results this year. But yes, Nadal should get bonus points for 4 straight wins over the #1 player.