PDA

View Full Version : Could Lindsay, Maria or Venus beat Nadal on grass?


BeautyVenus
06-14-2006, 08:28 PM
I wish tennis would allow men and women to play one another. It would be so interesting to see how Venus, Lindsay or Maria would match up against Nadal on a grass court. The women return serve better than the men. And Lindsay, Venus and Maria all have bigger serves than Nadal. I think tennis should have some event where men and women can play against each other. I know men are in some ways physically stronger than women but I do not agree with the myth that the men are better players. I recall reading an article it was Vogue and Steffi was on the cover and it said that Steffi was beating some ATP player she was playing with. I do believe there are some women on the WTA that can beat some ATP players. I think it is possible contrary to popular belief. There are things the women do better than the men and that is having variety, using slice, drop shot, lobs, volleys ect.

simi
06-14-2006, 08:32 PM
Here we go again . . .

Andres
06-14-2006, 08:42 PM
1) No, none of those girls serve better than Nadal.
2) No, none of those girls could get a set off Nadal.
3) No, none of those girls could get 3 games off Nadal.
4) No, I'm not, by any chance, a Nadal fan.

BeautyVenus
06-14-2006, 08:46 PM
But how do you know that? It could be an exhibition or something but it would be nice to see how the top WTA players match up against the top ATP players. And I am not so sure it would be so easy for the men. Billie Jean King beat Bobby Riggs. Martina Navratilova has beaten men before.

Andres
06-14-2006, 08:48 PM
But how do you know that? It could be an exhibition or something but it would be nice to see how the top WTA players match up against the top ATP players. And I am not so sure it would be so easy for the men. Billie Jean King beat Bobby Riggs. Martina Navratilova has beaten men before.
Venus Williams isn't Martina Navratilova.
Martina Navratilova, even the prodigy she is, couldn't win a game off Federer, for example.

Search around the board, this topic has been talked to death ;)

breakfast_of_champions
06-14-2006, 08:53 PM
mayb if all three played him at the same time. the riggs-king match was a sham. it was either his worst match ever or he tanked hoping for a rematch.

OrangeOne
06-14-2006, 08:55 PM
I recall reading an article it was Vogue

Enough said.

BeautyVenus
06-14-2006, 08:59 PM
People keep on talking about Venus and Serena playing Karsten Brasch or whatever his name was. However, people forget Venus and Serena were only 16 ot 17 at the time. Their games were not as developed. I am not saying women can beat all men. All I am suggesting is that perhaps there are some WTA players that could beat some ATP players. I think an exhibition or some event where there is a battle of the sexes would be fun for tennis. The women hit the ball just has hard as the men do. I would love to see Dementieva play Nadal that would be interesting to see.

matty p
06-14-2006, 09:00 PM
nadal 6-0 6-0

Andres
06-14-2006, 09:07 PM
The women hit the ball just has hard as the men do.
Two words:
NON SENSE

Was it one word? Oh, sorry

NONSENSE.

edberg505
06-14-2006, 09:09 PM
As much as I can't stand Nadal's tennis. There is no way on this earth that any of the aforementioned women could beat Nadal on grass, clay, hard, carpet, ice, mud, glass, sand or any other surface.

Andres
06-14-2006, 09:15 PM
People keep on talking about Venus and Serena playing Karsten Brasch or whatever his name was. However, people forget Venus and Serena were only 16 ot 17 at the time.
They played in 1998.
Venus' GS results for 1998:
AO: QF ; FO: QF ; BO: QF ; UO: SF

1998 Singles Record: 53-13
_______________________________

Let's go with Serena:

Serena didn't go very well that year on Grand Slams: 2nd, 4th, 3rd and 3rd.
Still, her record was: 1998 Singles Record: 29-11

________________________________

Let's go with Braasch:

ATP Ranking in 1998:
14-Dec-98 271
7-Dec-98 247
30-Nov-98 242
23-Nov-98 240
16-Nov-98 240
9-Nov-98 235
2-Nov-98 237
26-Oct-98 236
19-Oct-98 242
12-Oct-98 228
5-Oct-98 247
28-Sep-98 247
21-Sep-98 246
14-Sep-98 330
31-Aug-98 362
24-Aug-98 361
17-Aug-98 357
10-Aug-98 360
3-Aug-98 362
27-Jul-98 366
20-Jul-98 370
13-Jul-98 373
6-Jul-98 383
22-Jun-98 382
15-Jun-98 384
8-Jun-98 348
25-May-98 340
18-May-98 338
11-May-98 340
4-May-98 344
27-Apr-98 345
20-Apr-98 340
13-Apr-98 343
6-Apr-98 342
30-Mar-98 339
16-Mar-98 336
9-Mar-98 334
2-Mar-98 330
23-Feb-98 326
16-Feb-98 329
9-Feb-98 344
2-Feb-98 339
19-Jan-98 203
12-Jan-98 203

#203 was his best ranking that year.

David L
06-14-2006, 09:26 PM
Check this link out. Bear in mind, this match took place soon after Maria Sharapova had become the 2004 Wimbledon champion. Karan Rastogi beat her 6-2 6-2 in a competitive match at the Bollettieri camp, when he was still only playing junior events(he lost in the 1st round of Junior Wimbledon this year). 2 years later, he is a much better player, yet is only ranked in the top 400 in the world. Now she would not win a game. This should shed some light on the difference between the men and women's game.

http://www.rediff.com/sports/2005/jun/17deepti.htm

TENNIS_IS_FUN
06-14-2006, 09:31 PM
There was a thread long ago that discussed how a top ranking women's wta player could have difficulty with a good division I college player.

breakfast_of_champions
06-14-2006, 09:52 PM
a good division 1 player would destroy any women.

MasterTS
06-14-2006, 10:06 PM
Lame question. Nadal would beat them 6-0, 6-0.

Just to give you guys a glimps at how good WTA tennis is.. back a few years ago when Jen Capriati was in her prime, she played the #5 singles of UCLA.. not the #1 or #2.. #5!!! She lost 6-3, 6-3.

I also know of many Div1 tennis boys beating top WTA players with 6-1, 6-2 type scores.

The ladies have no power, no serve, no speed, and simply can't match a man even in the college level... so they have no freakin chance again Nadal, period.

Eviscerator
06-14-2006, 10:35 PM
.

No personal offense intended, but your posts are so absurd, I will not even comment other than to :roll:

bcaz
06-14-2006, 10:45 PM
all bagels.

superman1
06-14-2006, 11:42 PM
BeautyVenus is not really someone you should be getting into tennis debates with. I agree that it would be kind of fun to see some exhibitions with men against women, but in a serious match the women would not stand a chance.

BTW, Bobby Riggs was an old man in that match with Billie Jean King.

Petra Martinnen
06-15-2006, 03:36 AM
All speculation. Guys with "heavy" serves would overwhelm top gals, true. But goundstrokes are similar and speed is similar. Doubt me? Check track sprint for world class guys and gals. Tennis is 5 meter sprint and groundstrokes. Also, top guy athletes on world stage do not play pro tennis while some Euro top gals do! Recall: "USA can whip Iraq!" Sure thing...blah, blah. Groenefeld hits harder than Coria or Benneteau etc!

baseliner
06-15-2006, 05:02 AM
Remember the "Mother's Day Massacre"? #1 ranked WTA player loses in straight sets to washed up has-been 60+ years old Bobby Riggs. If BeautyVenus really thinks a top tier WTA player can beat Nadal, bring your checkbook. I (and most on this board ) want some of that action.

croatian sensation
06-15-2006, 05:03 AM
nadal 6-0 6-0

Ditto!!! And not a single deuce, in any game.

This subject has been beaten to death already, and yet someone decides to open up that discussion...and point straight at Nadal!
#2 in the world in which Federer is #1.

Oh yeah..he's sooo bad on grass that a WTA player can beat him. :roll:
Or there is maybe another Rafael Nadal playing tennis...some 3.5 college player? If yes, maybe we can discuss that one...

David L
06-15-2006, 05:13 AM
All speculation. Guys with "heavy" serves would overwhelm top gals, true. But goundstrokes are similar and speed is similar. Doubt me? Check track sprint for world class guys and gals. Tennis is 5 meter sprint and groundstrokes. Also, top guy athletes on world stage do not play pro tennis while some Euro top gals do! Recall: "USA can whip Iraq!" Sure thing...blah, blah. Groenefeld hits harder than Coria or Benneteau etc!

It's not speculation. Have a look at my earlier post about the match between Sharapova and Karan Rastogi. The biggest difference in the men and women's game, is the speed and movement around the court, as well as the comparative ease with which the men can manipulate the racket to generate racket head speed, imparting spin and power, while maintaining consistency. Look at the effort put in by Sharapova to hit the ball hard and her error count, in comparison to the effort and error count of any man. Everything about their games is totally different.

Sennin
06-15-2006, 05:13 AM
People keep on talking about Venus and Serena playing Karsten Brasch or whatever his name was. However, people forget Venus and Serena were only 16 ot 17 at the time.

And you forget that Billie Jean was half Bobby's age as someone has already pointed out.

The women return serve better than the men.
Lindsay, Venus and Maria all have bigger serves than Nadal.
There are things the women do better than the men and that is having variety, using slice, drop shot, lobs, volleys ect.

Sorry but none of this is really valid. Maybe if the women use these shots on other women it may seem that way.

Andres
06-15-2006, 05:33 AM
There are things the women do better than the men and that is having variety, using slice, drop shot, lobs, volleys ect.
I can't even remember when was the last time I saw a WTA pro volleying :mrgreen:
Oh, yeah, Navratilova, LOL, I remember now :mrgreen:

Condoleezza
06-15-2006, 05:44 AM
I wish tennis would allow men and women to play one another. It would be so interesting to see how Venus, Lindsay or Maria would match up against Nadal on a grass court. The women return serve better than the men. And Lindsay, Venus and Maria all have bigger serves than Nadal. I think tennis should have some event where men and women can play against each other. I know men are in some ways physically stronger than women but I do not agree with the myth that the men are better players. I recall reading an article it was Vogue and Steffi was on the cover and it said that Steffi was beating some ATP player she was playing with. ...


Venus, Lindsay or Maria would lose 1-6 0-6 or 0-6 0-6 to Nadal.

And no, Graf never ever beat a top 1000 ATP player.

Go and watch soccer. You don't know anything about tennis ...


Condi

Rickson
06-15-2006, 06:01 AM
Could Lindsay, Maria or Venus beat Nadal on grass?

No, no, and no.

Amone
06-15-2006, 06:31 AM
I can't even remember when was the last time I saw a WTA pro volleying :mrgreen:
Oh, yeah, Navratilova, LOL, I remember now :mrgreen:
No, no, Hingis volleys all the time. But I don't think anyone would confuse her for someone who could manage to control the power of the men's game.

Melissa
06-15-2006, 06:39 AM
Beauty and Petra

It KILLS me to side with the guys. But I believe they are correct. Obnoxious.
But correct.

Petra, you believe that some European women tennis players are Euro top athletes. Which ones? I am sorry but I don't see many world class athletes playing tennis. Women or men. One can be a world class tennis player without being a world class athlete. John McEnroe? But what other sport would he excel in. Poker? How about Lindsey Davenport? And don't say beach volleyball. She is slower on the beach courts than tennis courts. Sorry.

crazylevity
06-15-2006, 07:23 AM
Beauty and Petra

It KILLS me to side with the guys. But I believe they are correct. Obnoxious.
But correct.



Well I do beg your pardon if you have been offended. And while it is true that the WTA is of a lower standard physically than the ATP, I believe it still holds relevance for the many of us who are merely 3.5-4.0 players, if not lower. I have just as much to learn from Henin-Hardenne as from Federer. But to say that anyone from the WTA can challenge any ATP pro is just...ridiculous. Even Nadal on grass...come on.

Andres
06-15-2006, 07:23 AM
All speculation. Guys with "heavy" serves would overwhelm top gals, true. But goundstrokes are similar and speed is similar. Doubt me? Check track sprint for world class guys and gals. Tennis is 5 meter sprint and groundstrokes.
Yeah, but as you may notice, female tennis players are NOT world class sprinters. Footwork, speed, power, it's all male advantage.

Melissa
06-15-2006, 07:34 AM
Well I do beg your pardon if you have been offended. And while it is true that the WTA is of a lower standard physically than the ATP, I believe it still holds relevance for the many of us who are merely 3.5-4.0 players, if not lower. I have just as much to learn from Henin-Hardenne as from Federer. But to say that anyone from the WTA can challenge any ATP pro is just...ridiculous. Even Nadal on grass...come on.


What makes you think I am offended?

Rickson
06-15-2006, 07:38 AM
I don't think the best female clay player could beat the worst male clay player on a grass court near the hard courts of the US Open.

Andy Zarzuela
06-15-2006, 07:40 AM
Here's a fun fact. When Anna Kournikova and Tommy Haas were training at Bollettieri's, Anna used to beat Tommy. That's how good Anna was. Of course, they were developing juniors, but still that was impressive from Anna's part. Anna used to play with no fear, but once she started getting media attention, I think that made her more nervous and tentative in matches. I think we could've seen great things from Anna if she just would've managed to beat Venus in that Miami final after she had beaten 4 top 10 players in route. I think one title would've done it for her.

verdasco67
06-15-2006, 07:42 AM
Divison 1 college players would beat Top WTA Players. Im pretty sure of that...not to be sexist or anything.

crazylevity
06-15-2006, 07:42 AM
What makes you think I am offended?

You did say some guys stated their points obnoxiously.;)

Brettolius
06-15-2006, 07:52 AM
Here's a fun fact. When Anna Kournikova and Tommy Haas were training at Bollettieri's, Anna used to beat Tommy. That's how good Anna was. Of course, they were developing juniors, but still that was impressive from Anna's part. Anna used to play with no fear, but once she started getting media attention, I think that made her more nervous and tentative in matches. I think we could've seen great things from Anna if she just would've managed to beat Venus in that Miami final after she had beaten 4 top 10 players in route. I think one title would've done it for her.

Do you have a link or anything to base this on? My buddy was a helluva a good college player and he played Haas when Tommy was around 14 or so and my bud was in college. I asked what it was like, how Haas played at that age, what he did well. And he said it was over so damn fast that he didn't really remember, other than Haas served huge. So I really don't think Anna was beating Haas.

Melissa
06-15-2006, 07:59 AM
You did say some guys stated their points obnoxiously.;)

They do. But it isn't necessarily offensive. More like telling!

crazylevity
06-15-2006, 08:04 AM
good for u then. U will enjoy this forum much if u can overlook it. :P

musicc
06-15-2006, 08:21 AM
WTA uses smaller balls but the matches are slower than mens...

dh003i
06-15-2006, 08:32 AM
this is why men get paid more than women at Wimbledon...

If there was a single league for men and women, women wouldn't get paid anything, because there probably wouldn't even be a single woman in the top 400.

Sorry, reality check.

Rickson
06-15-2006, 08:33 AM
WTA uses smaller balls but the matches are slower than mens...
Smaller balls? Where did you get that?

Power_Player
06-15-2006, 08:58 AM
Of course Nadal would win...

But some of you are completely putting down the women's game, as if they're useless. Shut the f u c k up your bas *****.

guernica1
06-15-2006, 09:20 AM
All speculation. Guys with "heavy" serves would overwhelm top gals, true. But goundstrokes are similar and speed is similar. Doubt me? Check track sprint for world class guys and gals. Tennis is 5 meter sprint and groundstrokes. Also, top guy athletes on world stage do not play pro tennis while some Euro top gals do! Recall: "USA can whip Iraq!" Sure thing...blah, blah. Groenefeld hits harder than Coria or Benneteau etc!

Groenefeld may hit harder velocity than Guille or Benneateau right off the frame but I can guarantee you Coria and other male's have a much heavier ball such that when it hits the ground it explodes with spin. And having seen Benneteau in person I can tell you he has some power off bothi wings.

Now imagine that same spin coming from the racquet of Nadal...

Gronefeld is also very error prone and her hardest groundstrokes are not harder than say Gonzalez, Verdasco, Gasquet etc., all of whom the "slower hitting" males can easily rally with. Hence its quite unreasonable to say a hard hitting female will blow a top ranked male off the court.

As for beating Rafa on grass, and no I'm not a big Rafa fan by any means, lets just say he is not easy to beat on any surface and he is showing that this week at Queens. Mardy Fish is not an easy customer on grass.

Skills aside, Nadal (and Hewitt) are probably unshakeable in their desire to win.

The women's game is what it is and so is the men's game. Its like saying men's college basketball and NBA are the same because they use the same ball, however ask any knowledgable hoops fan and they'll tell you its a different game altogether.

The Houston Rockets, who totally stunk this year, would have still destroyed the Florida Gators, NCAA champs. Did that make Rockets games any more fun to watch? No. I'll still watch a great college hoops game anyday over a bad game 44 out of 72 in the NBA season between two lottery teams.

Both tours should be enjoyed for what they are, no more no less.

Also, Andy Z: regarding Haas losing to Anna K., that may be true but once guys get to about age 17 the physical changes make a huge difference.

And good for Rastogi; he's close to top 300 now I think. Its hard to break through from tennis poor countries.

Andres
06-15-2006, 09:24 AM
Of course Nadal would win...

But some of you are completely putting down the women's game, as if they're useless. Shut the f u c k up your bas *****.
No, some of us are putting down the women's game, COMPARED to the men's game. They would be pretty useless AGAINST men. It's not AGAINST women's tennis per se.

Rickson
06-15-2006, 09:33 AM
No, some of us are putting down the women's game, COMPARED to the men's game. They would be pretty useless AGAINST men. It's not AGAINST women's tennis per se.
No doubt the WTA players could beat most men outside the pro ranks, but I think if non pro men played them enough times, the non pro men would eventually start beating them.

MasterTS
06-15-2006, 09:35 AM
All speculation. Guys with "heavy" serves would overwhelm top gals, true. But goundstrokes are similar and speed is similar. Doubt me? Check track sprint for world class guys and gals. Tennis is 5 meter sprint and groundstrokes. Also, top guy athletes on world stage do not play pro tennis while some Euro top gals do! Recall: "USA can whip Iraq!" Sure thing...blah, blah. Groenefeld hits harder than Coria or Benneteau etc!

Groen does not hit harder than coria lol.. Coria has one of the most accurate, consistent, and powerful forehands of mens tennis. He can really unload the winners when he wants to.. how the hell do you think he can play top 10 tennis being weaker then Groenefeld? You seriously don't know much about tennis.

Groundstroke speeds may be similar but the trajectory and heaviness of the ball is totally different. The females hit pretty flat and when they do have spin its not much compared to the men. Thd depth of the ball is totally different too. Like I said, I know for fact.. this is no speculation. Look at my first post in this thread.

guernica1
06-15-2006, 09:40 AM
MasterTS sums it up; it doesn't matter how fast a serve or groundie is flying through the air these days so much as it is how fast and heavy it is after it bounces. Kinda like how Pete's 2nd serve was better than most guys' 1st serves.

Zeph
06-15-2006, 09:41 AM
0% chance

0-0 sets

treo
06-15-2006, 10:36 AM
Here is a fact to make the ladies proud. In one sport, Observed Trials, the Women's World Champ, Laia Sanz of Spain, competed head to head against America's best, including the 9-time reigning National Champ, and came in third. This happened a month ago at a World Championship Round in Tenneseee. Learn about Trials here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_trial
Trials riders are some of the best athletes in the world, comparable to tennis, basketball and motocross riders with the danger aspect of moto sports. She's a looker too.
http://www.laiasanz.com

Amone
06-15-2006, 10:49 AM
Here is a fact to make the ladies proud. In one sport, Observed Trials, the Women's World Champ, Laia Sanz of Spain, competed head to head against America's best, including the 9-time reigning National Champ, and came in third. This happened a month ago at a World Championship Round in Tenneseee. Learn about Trials here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_trial
Trials riders are some of the best athletes in the world, comparable to tennis, basketball and motocross riders with the danger aspect of moto sports. She's a looker too.
http://www.laiasanz.com
That's a motorcycling event in which you try to complete it with perfect form. How is that in any way comparable to tennis? Especially when talking about someone like Nadal, who is very successful and has rather roughshod form..

treo
06-15-2006, 11:14 AM
That's a motorcycling event in which you try to complete it with perfect form. How is that in any way comparable to tennis? Especially when talking about someone like Nadal, who is very successful and has rather roughshod form..
Trials is not about style. It is scored much like golf but with tremendous athletic skill required. I brought this up as probably the only example in the world where there is a sport that a woman can beat 99.9% of the men in the United States.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-16-2006, 06:04 AM
no way, with Rafa's counterpunching game plan they will be physically exhausted to keep up with the tempo of his shots and his serve, even though he doesn't serve bombs. I think he could probably triple bagel Sharapova, and both Davenport and Venus might get a game off of him per set if Rafa will feel sorry for them:mrgreen: . I'm sure they would lose this bad since they have no variety, what the hell is beauty venus talking about that women volley better than men? I don't think I've ever seen a top ten WTA player volley as much and as good as a top 100 ATP player

oscar_2424
06-16-2006, 06:26 AM
I wish tennis would allow men and women to play one another. It would be so interesting to see how Venus, Lindsay or Maria would match up against Nadal on a grass court. The women return serve better than the men. And Lindsay, Venus and Maria all have bigger serves than Nadal. I think tennis should have some event where men and women can play against each other. I know men are in some ways physically stronger than women but I do not agree with the myth that the men are better players. I recall reading an article it was Vogue and Steffi was on the cover and it said that Steffi was beating some ATP player she was playing with. I do believe there are some women on the WTA that can beat some ATP players. I think it is possible contrary to popular belief. There are things the women do better than the men and that is having variety, using slice, drop shot, lobs, volleys ect.
you have to be kidding...

jkhtennis
06-16-2006, 07:02 AM
Lindsay, Maria or Venus could only win a point per match, oh, that's because Nadal double faulted.

safinlives
06-16-2006, 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeautyVenus
I wish tennis would allow men and women to play one another. It would be so interesting to see how Venus, Lindsay or Maria would match up against Nadal on a grass court. The women return serve better than the men. And Lindsay, Venus and Maria all have bigger serves than Nadal. I think tennis should have some event where men and women can play against each other. I know men are in some ways physically stronger than women but I do not agree with the myth that the men are better players. I recall reading an article it was Vogue and Steffi was on the cover and it said that Steffi was beating some ATP player she was playing with. I do believe there are some women on the WTA that can beat some ATP players. I think it is possible contrary to popular belief. There are things the women do better than the men and that is having variety, using slice, drop shot, lobs, volleys ect.




she forgot to add that nadal would have to be playing right handed.....

croatian sensation
06-16-2006, 08:02 AM
Beauty and Petra

It KILLS me to side with the guys. But I believe they are correct. Obnoxious.
But correct.



I was happy to side with the guys.
It's not a male vs. female battle, but an ignorant vs. rational/meaningful posting. :rolleyes:

LeftyServe
06-16-2006, 11:23 AM
To get an understanding of the difference, all that's needed is to observe in person a few matches at a combined male-female tournament. At the French, I observed world #10 Gaudio, and following his match on the same court, world #9 Schnyder. Two clay court specialists, both big on spin, etc. But while the game may look relatively equivalent if your perspective is TV, when witnessed in person, the differences in quality are so obvious as to be beyond comment. And this is not to demean Schnyder's or the women's game at all. There really is no argument; this really should be "case closed."

DADYO
06-16-2006, 01:01 PM
OMG...

They wouldn't be able to get a game off him, and they ABSOLUTELY DO NOT have a better serve than Nadal. Nowhere near.

K-kita
06-16-2006, 01:10 PM
Trials riders are some of the best athletes in the world[/url]

Hahahahaha, good joke.