I'm 5.7'', should I forget about flat serves?

[ionutzakis]

Of all the types of serves that I've tried, flat serve seems the most difficult. It's only when I achieve perfect timing that I manage to hit the ball in. 90% of the time that the ball doesn't hit the net the ball ends out just about 1 - 5 inches. It's just driving me crazy. Twist serve it's almost always in, but this flat serve is just a pain.

Do you have any hints of where should I stay on the deuce and ad side (more to the left or more to the right) and on which part should I serve (forehand or backhand side) depending on where I am when serving to increase my chances of putting the ball in?? I have to mention that I hit the ball out more often that I hit into the net.

Should I bother with flat serve and just concentrate on the twist and slice? I do not serve aces with these serves but atleast they are consistent.

I'm using a continental grip and 27.5 racquets in lenght (MP Tour 5, MFIL 2005 Plus). I also have an APD standard lenght, it's really good for twist and slice serves, but the ball goes out when hitting flat serves.

I'm also considering switching to POG longbody as a last resort. I play exclusively singles on clay. My level is probably 3.5, 4 on a good day.

[jackabee]

Try looking at some videos of Olivier Rochus - he is 5'5" and achieves a quality serve!

[ionutzakis]

That's a good ideea. But this guy is so rare on TV. I've seen more of not so taller players, and most of them when serving flat are tilting to the left big way, ending up with their right leg high into the air (Volandri).

Would serving only to the T would increase the rate of succes?

[tennus]

Of all the types of serves that I've tried, flat serve seems the most difficult. It's only when I achieve perfect timing that I manage to hit the ball in. 90% of the time that the ball doesn't hit the net the ball ends out just about 1 - 5 inches. It's just driving me crazy. Twist serve it's almost always in, but this flat serve is just a pain.

Do you have any hints of where should I stay on the deuce and ad side (more to the left or more to the right) and on which part should I serve (forehand or backhand side) depending on where I am when serving to increase my chances of putting the ball in?? I have to mention that I hit the ball out more often that I hit into the net.

Should I bother with flat serve and just concentrate on the twist and slice? I do not serve aces with these serves but atleast they are consistent.

I'm using a continental grip and 27.5 racquets in lenght (MP Tour 5, MFIL 2005 Plus). I also have an APD standard lenght, it's really good for twist and slice serves, but the ball goes out when hitting flat serves.

I'm also considering switching to POG longbody as a last resort. I play exclusively singles on clay. My level is probably 3.5, 4 on a good day.
OK, as a 4.0 on a good day............would your opponent 4.0 be likely to attack your serve if you never hit a flat serve ? I suggest absolutely !! So, IMHO even if you occaionally hit your flat serve you'd be better off regardless of whether they went in.

Of course this doesn't fix your problem. How often do you practice your flat serve ? Here's some suggestions:
1. Try serving flat serves at cones in the box
2. Find out where your most reliable flat serve is.
3. Get someone to watch you practice and ask them to check where your ball toss is in regard to your body. (If you've been hitting a lot of twist serves your ball toss may be your problem).
4. In practice don't serve at 100%. Many people try to force a flat serve. Timing is more important.
5. If you don't have a coach consider using one to sort out your technique. What it feels like you are doing and what is actually happening may vary !
;)

[ionutzakis]

ok.

1. now that I thing about it I do hit better the flat serves down the T when I stand in the middle of the court

2. I do have a coach, and he says and I know that I'm turning my shoulder to early. this is probably due to me serving a lot of slice and twist serves back when I was using the eastern grip for serves. Any advice for quitting this habit?

3. the toss is somewhere at 1-2 o'clock out in front, when it's more in front it hits the net, when it's too upright it goes out.

4. would a longbody 28'' racquet be of any help?

5. I use a pinpoint stance

[tennus]

ok.

1. now that I thing about it I do hit better the flat serves down the T when I stand in the middle of the court

2. I do have a coach, and he says and I know that I'm turning my shoulder to early. this is probably due to me serving a lot of slice and twist serves back when I was using the eastern grip for serves. Any advice for quitting this habit?

3. the toss is somewhere at 1-2 o'clock out in front, when it's more in front it hits the net, when it's too upright it goes out.

4. would a longbody 28'' racquet be of any help?

5. I use a pinpoint stance

1. Well down the T, the ball crosses the lowest height of the net. Of course this is also the shortest distance between server and service line.
2. Ah yes, my son has the same problem from the ad court. His coach tries to get him to practice down the T from the ad court as he has a tendancy to toss the ball more to his left side when he goes wide.
3. 2 o'clock sounds a little conduicive for a slice serve. Your coach is your best judge though.
4. I don't think your problem lies with the length of your racquet.
5. Not quite sure what you mean by pinpoint stance ? :)

[ionutzakis]

by pinpoint I meant that I'm coming with my right leg right just besides my left leg when I'm hitting the ball, instead of keeping it unmoved (that would be a platform stance)

How did you son's coach solved the problem of turning his shoulder too early?

[donnyz89]

I'm 5'3 and i can sometimes hit a good 90+ mph flat serve and im barely a 3.5 player.

[equinox]

I'm about the same height.
I can clock serves in the 160-170's kpm range when pressed.
With our limited height there's a limit to how much pace we can generate and still keep any reasonable service consistency 50%+.
Imho you're better off using well placed kick and slice services.
Mix up your service patterns and you'll be just effective as a flat boomer server.
You'll have less 2nd service pressure and more margin for error.

[supersmash]

I'm 5'7" too. I don't know what you're talking about, but flats are easy. I guess you just have to reach a bit higher.

[RiosTheGenius]

Puerta was very short also, check him out

[shindemac]

I agree; Flat serves are the hardest to get in. You could always try to add a little topspin to get it in.

[ionutzakis]

went and play today. the damn ball doesn't get in without some top spin, so frustrating, it takes the pace out

[topspin kid]

try jumping or reaching up higher if it goes out a lot then probably your problem is that you dont turn your shoulder or dont turn it enough.

[scotus]

That's a good ideea. But this guy is so rare on TV. I've seen more of not so taller players, and most of them when serving flat are tilting to the left big way, ending up with their right leg high into the air (Volandri).


In that case, watch Justine Henin-Hardenne. She can put some juice into her flat serves and although she is listed as 5 ft 5 in 3/4, I think it's exaggerated.

JHH really gets the maximum power out of that little body of hers.

[DragonFly]

I've had a coach get down on his knees and smack a flat ball in there. Its not really height, more technique. I'm 5'7'' too, and I can hit a pretty decent flat serve. You don't have to jump, but reach is definately a major factor. Make sure your serving shoulder rotates OVER your non dominant side. That helps you use your natural rotation.

[JCo872]

DragonFly,

I have video of both Justine and Coria (who is 5'9) hitting flat serves if you are curious. You should be able to hit a flat serve no problem. Just need to maximize technique.

Jeff

[DragonFly]

DragonFly,

I have video of both Justine and Coria (who is 5'9) hitting flat serves if you are curious. You should be able to hit a flat serve no problem. Just need to maximize technique.

Jeff

I already CAN hit a flat serve. I have no problem serving, but I would put the video up for anyone else.

Its not really height, more technique

I already know its more technique than height, but thanks for your contribution to the thread.

[papa]

I have an old racquet with a string attached to the "sweet spot". Players are amazed when I have them hold their racquet in the highest spot (realize this does not take into consideration jumping) and I extend the string over the net into the serve box. At 5'7" your flat serve would be in the neighborhood of being sixteen to eighteen inches long - give or take a few inches depending on jump. The only thing thats going to bring it down is gravity (32 feet per second) so don't expect much help there.

You would have to be around 6'3" to actually get a flat serve in and then you would be dealing with such a tiny fudge factor that its hardly worth it.

So, in my opinion, every serve has to have at least some topspin to bring it down. We've discussed this on many occasions so there much be several good refferences.

[In D Zone]

YEAH - THE BACK SPIN SERVE. Give this a try!
Claim to fame> This is Boris Becker's secret serve!

I accidentally stumbled on this article in google. Trust me ! I am 5'8" and I can hit with this serve with so much pace and power the ball get stuck (half the ball in it) on the cyclone fence - I had to prey it out. Not talking about it happened once -but many times! The guys on the other court were shocked and in awe - because the serve delivers this loud pop and at blazing speed. Flight of the ball is same as a flat serve - the difference is the bounce.

At time the ball would land and stop (due to the back spin effect), especially when you hit with a follow through, or it will skid low (knee high) to the side. One important thing about this serve - it is a perfect serve on windy situations, easy to control and ball placement - down the T, to the body or on the corner.

I use this serve sporadically but when I do I ended up acing my opponent or having them respond back with a weak return. Its my secret serve that I use to win quick points , close out a game or if I am having a tough day with my other serve.

Read the article for details:
http://www.tennisserver.com/turbo/turbo_05_12.html

I taught my 14 year old son the serve, and it has the same results - now he uses the same stance, and varies his racquet position to change speed or for a slice.

My hitting buddy plays with the same serve, he thought I did not know the serve. I know how to return his serve but I have to really focus on the ball because it is coming at me fast (about 90 to 100mph).

Give this one a try and let me know how you like it! Good Luck!

[jaisrh]

I'm 5'6", 150 lbs and my serve has been clocked at 115mph. Of course if I tried to serve at maximum speed all the time my percentage would be pretty low. I usually go for a relatively flat 1st serve that is around the 100 mph range and get about 40-45% of those in. In order to bring my 1st serve percentage up to 50% I throw in some serves that are in between my 1st and 2nd serves in terms of pace and spin, probably about 90 mph with some kick. My 2nd serve is about 75-80 mph with decent kick, it manages to get up to face level of other guys my height and around shoulder level of guys a few inches taller.

Of course my serve is still a couple of major notches below pro level but that's not bad for a 5'6" guy. In terms of gravity, taking 10mph off a flat serve probably means more serves that go in instead of landing 3-4 inches or less out so you get a tradeoff of higher % vs less pace on your serve. Another thing is that even flat serves have some ball rotation because you never truly hit a ball without making the ball spin. A good pro-level kick 2nd serve has rpm in the 4000+ range. Even a "flat" 1st serve averages 2000+ rpm. Maybe the biggest overlooked factor is air resistance. I don't know how much a serve slows from baseline to service box, but according to the following website, 1st serves slow down to roughly half their speed by the time the ball reaches the returner


quote "However it was also found that even a 120 MPH serve slows to approximately 55 MPH by the time the receiver hits the ball. Air resistance during the flight of the ball and friction of the bounce on the court both act to reduce the velocity of the ball."
http://coachesinfo.com/category/tennis/202/

Do a google search and you can find other references to the rpm of pro level serves or groundstrokes. There was even an article about it at tennisone.com, but my subscription there has expired and I don't want to pony up another $50 for another year since I think I got all I can get out it. If you never heard of www.tennisone.com, it has a ton of articles in its archive, along with a good collection of short clips of some top players hitting various strokes. It was a better investment for me than having bought a few tennis books. They have a 1 month free trial so it's worth checking out.

Anyway, air resistance slowing down the ball allowing gravity to have a greater effect and the rotation of the ball making it curve are probably the biggest factors that make a supposedly "flat serve" go in. Sampras had a relatively high rpm on his 1st serves even though they looked mostly flat and it was theorized that was why his serves were considered "heavy" by other players. Not only did the extra rpm give him a little extra margin to get it in but the extra rotation actually made his serve slow down less by the time it got to the returner. So a 120mph serve with 2600rpm (Sampras) had a little more speed left than a 120mph serve with 2000rpm (other player) by the time it reached the returner. Sampras achieved this by exploding UPWARD and not just out to the ball.

My advice: Think OVER the net and down IN to the box in terms of the ball trajectory. Always aim above the net while getting both under and behind the ball, reach up and accelerate your racquet into the hit. Your shot will be mostly flat but will have some natural spin because your racquet is traveling upward and will hit up and across the ball even as you try to hit through it. So trying to hit your 1st serve with a little spin but mostly flat instead of as flat as possible will give you a few more inches of margin both above the net and within the service line.

[Silentgunz]

im only 5'8" and my flat serve is just fine

[xtremerunnerars]

According to physics and geometry, you can't hit a "flat" serve unless you are at least a full ten feet tall.

You can, however, go for more power than spin.

[th41291]

Yao Ming would beast!

[Andres]

According to physics and geometry, you can't hit a "flat" serve unless you are at least a full ten feet tall.

You can, however, go for more power than spin.
It's 9 feet, and not you, but the contact point BEING 9 feet tall.
I, for example, am 6'4''. With my fully arm extended, plus the 27'' of my racquet, I hit the ball around 10 feet high.

You don't HAVE TO BE 9 feet tall, just hitting the ball at 9 feet.

[retroceso]

man that sucks all i can do is flat serves

[MasterTS]

Try looking at some videos of Olivier Rochus - he is 5'5" and achieves a quality serve!

Ollie is listed as 5'5" but in reality he's more like 5'2-5'3

Grosjean I think is listed as 5'9 but in reality is really 5'6".

Grosjean hits 130mph bombs!

[xtremerunnerars]

It's 9 feet, and not you, but the contact point BEING 9 feet tall.
I, for example, am 6'4''. With my fully arm extended, plus the 27'' of my racquet, I hit the ball around 10 feet high.

You don't HAVE TO BE 9 feet tall, just hitting the ball at 9 feet.


That works too haha. 10 ft does seem high i suppose

[ionutzakis]

for some reason I serve flat much better with stiffer racquets than flexier. Is it easier to serve flat with stiffer racquets?