Backhand (Elbow Pain) Question

[Amone]

This morning, hitting off a ball machine with my usual 1handed backhand, I noticed a pain in my elbow when I hit the ball, and this caused some real worries. Now, I think that this is at least partially a function of my technique, which is to straighten my arm just before I hit the ball, but I think this is similar to proper technique. This isn't the first time my elbow's hurt, either, so I'm tempted to pay this some serious attention.

So, my question is, is there some other method that I should switch to with my backhand, or should I hit with a 2hander? I've used it before, so the work I'd need to put into it isn't TOO much, but I am more used to my 1hander. Or, is there some other way I should be hitting my regular backhand to make it hurt less? I've tried a few ways, but I figured I should ask here before I made any choices, as you guys always seem to have an interesting point to make that I hadn't thought of.

[BattleAxe]

Since no one else has answered you, and this post is in jeopardy of falling off the first page, I will offer my advice.... which is pretty simple. Switch back to the 2 hander. Either that, or see a local pro who can fix your 1 hander in person before you do any more damage. You shouldn't have tennis elbow in high school. Just think how bad it may be when you're 40 or 50. Will you even be able to hit the 1 hander, or worse yet, still be able to play at all. Switching to the 2h'er now will guarantee a lifelong ticket to playing. Unless of course you injure your back or something.

[Amone]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too. My elbow doesn't hurt afterwards, just like I'm getting hit in the elbow while I'm hitting my backhand...But yeah, that's what I plan on doing, I think. Thanks, BA.

[JCo872]

This morning, hitting off a ball machine with my usual 1handed backhand, I noticed a pain in my elbow when I hit the ball, and this caused some real worries. Now, I think that this is at least partially a function of my technique, which is to straighten my arm just before I hit the ball, but I think this is similar to proper technique. This isn't the first time my elbow's hurt, either, so I'm tempted to pay this some serious attention.

So, my question is, is there some other method that I should switch to with my backhand, or should I hit with a 2hander? I've used it before, so the work I'd need to put into it isn't TOO much, but I am more used to my 1hander. Or, is there some other way I should be hitting my regular backhand to make it hurt less? I've tried a few ways, but I figured I should ask here before I made any choices, as you guys always seem to have an interesting point to make that I hadn't thought of.

Can you send some video?

I'm sure it's a small technical problem. You are hitting late, or your wrist and arm aren't locked in on contact.

The elbow should not play a role at all on a proper one hander, which is why it is almost certainly a technical glitch. You really need to video tape the shot so we can see what is going on. As your technique improves, the pain will go away and the shot will actually become a lot better.

You may also need to rest your arm for awhile or see a doctor because you could have torn something.

Jeff

[habib]

The elbow should not play a role at all on a proper one hander, which is why it is almost certainly a technical glitch.

Really? Watching players like Haas and Blake, they unfold their elbow into the shot to generate a lot of power. Mind you, they still swing from the shoulder, but their arm is bent on take-back and straightens into the ball.

[Amone]

That's what I'm talking about, habib, sorry if I misexplained. I'm not very good with explainations. And yeah, they do, if you look back you'll find an amazingly good explaination of the Haas backhand by Bungalow Bill.

I suppose I could try to get some video, though I couldn't make any guarantees about quality; I only have a digital camera with some video capabilities. It is likely a technical problem, yeah, but I don't notice anything except that more than a few shots to my backhand hurts. Not

[JCo872]

Really? Watching players like Haas and Blake, they unfold their elbow into the shot to generate a lot of power. Mind you, they still swing from the shoulder, but their arm is bent on take-back and straightens into the ball.

Nope. They lock in way before contact. If you unfold your elbow into the shot, not only are you asking for tennis elbow, but you break down the "lever" from shoulder to laid back wrist. If you are having any elbow problems at all, lock in as soon as you can. Here is a good model. Sebastian Prieto is one of the world's top doubles players:

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/onehander/videos/prieto/index.cfm

Jeff

[JCo872]

Nope. They lock in way before contact. If you unfold your elbow into the shot, not only are you asking for tennis elbow, but you break down the "lever" from shoulder to laid back wrist and lose quite a bit of power. If you are having any elbow problems at all, lock in as soon as you can. Here is a good model. Sebastian Prieto is one of the world's top doubles players. Because I was standing right there, let me assure you he was absolutely crushing these one handers.

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/onehander/videos/prieto/index.cfm

Jeff

[Amone]

Oh, something I seem to have forgotten to mention, this rarely happens when I take a large follow-through, but with a shorter follow through (perpendicular to the net.. may not be a short follow through for most, but mine usually ends up with my shoulders at about a 45 with the net) so, maybe this has something to do with it? It feels like I have to really pull my arm to a stop there, whereas my 45-follow-through is comfortable.

[LuckyR]

One other thing to mention is to consider switching racquets. I agree with the others, though that it is the 2 hand vs 1 hand BH that is the real culprit.

Good luck.

[JCo872]

test test

[BigbangerNYC]

This morning, hitting off a ball machine with my usual 1handed backhand, I noticed a pain in my elbow when I hit the ball, and this caused some real worries. Now, I think that this is at least partially a function of my technique, which is to straighten my arm just before I hit the ball, but I think this is similar to proper technique. This isn't the first time my elbow's hurt, either, so I'm tempted to pay this some serious attention.

So, my question is, is there some other method that I should switch to with my backhand, or should I hit with a 2hander? I've used it before, so the work I'd need to put into it isn't TOO much, but I am more used to my 1hander. Or, is there some other way I should be hitting my regular backhand to make it hurt less? I've tried a few ways, but I figured I should ask here before I made any choices, as you guys always seem to have an interesting point to make that I hadn't thought of.

Tennis elbow and golfer's elbow (pain inside of the elbow) are caused by poor stroke technique of the forehand (the former) and backhand (the latter) . Pros get lots of injuries, but never tennis elbow.

Often is the case, people who suffer tennis elbow hit the ball hard without proper technique, especially not locking up the elbow and too tight a grip. For 1-HBH, as JCO pointed out, the elbow and arm are locked at contact. The elbow only bends during takeback and sometimes after contact (ala Federer) for certain topspin shots.

You'd be surprised how effective and powerful your BH shots can be when you loosen up the grip a bit. And, often than not, this will prevent you from getting tennis elbow or further aggravate it if you already have it.

You must rest for least a month if the injury isn't too severe, otherwise at least 6 months. I know it sucks, but if you want to play tennis well into your golden age, then you must take your injuries as seriously as your desire to practice every day.

My 2 cents.....

Best,
BBNYC

[BigbangerNYC]

One other thing to mention is to consider switching racquets. I agree with the others, though that it is the 2 hand vs 1 hand BH that is the real culprit.

Good luck.

Good point that I forgot to mention. I agree here....

Get rid of those "light" racquets. They are tennis elbow manufacturers.

If you love your "head-light" stick b/c you don't like another heavier ones out there, then at least start to learn how to --and do-- modify it by placing lead and/or lead tape at strategic locations on the racquet, including inside the handle. Tere are many websites showing you how to do this.

[Amone]

I don't use a light stick, Banger. I use a Diablo mid. o_O That's a 12 oz player's racquet. I'm moving to a DNX10, also 12oz, and I have every intention of adding an oz or two of lead to that.

[BigbangerNYC]

I don't use a light stick, Banger. I use a Diablo mid. o_O That's a 12 oz player's racquet. I'm moving to a DNX10, also 12oz, and I have every intention of adding an oz or two of lead to that.

the total weight of the racquet does not mean anything unless the head is at least balanced. In other words, if the racquet is 12 oz. but the head is lighter than the body, then it still may cause tennis elbow b/c of the swing weight (which has nothing to do with the weight of the entire racquet).

I play with the Babolat Aeropro Drive, and I had to add lots of wieght at 9 and 3 o'clock positions to make it head heavy.

[Amone]

Head Heavy will actually likely cause troubles for you in the end, if I remember correctly. I think more in the shoulder though, if I heard right. Though, I'd love trying the Sampras setup, with the ~500 SW. That would be interesting.

[BigbangerNYC]

Head Heavy will actually likely cause troubles for you in the end, if I remember correctly. I think more in the shoulder though, if I heard right. Though, I'd love trying the Sampras setup, with the ~500 SW. That would be interesting.

Although it's tough and takes lots of muscle to wield a head-heavy sticks, but they do not give you tennis elbow b/c the head, being heavy, will absorb most of the impact force, rather than transfer it down to your arm as all head-lite rqacquets do. One can add tape on the throat of the raqcuet to make it a bit head-heavy and still balanced, but some like the feel of the weightier head by placing it at 9/3, 11/2 or even 12 O'clock positions (with or without some counterweight in the handle).

[Bungalo Bill]

...Switch back to the 2 hander...

Well this is a bit drastic don't you think? It could be a simple fix to a technical problem or that his shoulder/back muscles are weak. Before having someone switch to a completely different backhand it might pay to find out what the problem is first!

You shouldn't have tennis elbow in high school.

Really? Oh no, I did. I am 46 now and can hit just fine - with no pain. Tennis elbow is something that can be overcome if it is dealt with properly. You can be a kid, teenager, or adult and still develop tennis elbow. A person can switch to a different racquet, string, tension, or technique and develop tennis or golfer's elbow. You really have to isolate the issue.

Will you even be able to hit the 1 hander, or worse yet, still be able to play at all. Switching to the 2h'er now will guarantee a lifelong ticket to playing. Unless of course you injure your back or something.

Actually, it won't guarantee a thing. There is nothing wrong with continuing to develop his onehander. The onehanded backhand is a great shot. Tennis elbow is only a symptom of something he needs to address - some place else. It could be he is rigidly straightening out his arm which will short circuit all the shock into his elbow. It could be he is trying to fancy "windshield wiping" methods and his muscles are ot ready for the torque involved.

The twohanded backhand is not a guarantee. I injured my back at around 42 using my twohanded backhand. That is actually my shot. Now, I am meandering between the twohander and the onehander because I thought my twohander days were over.

There are other issues involved with using a twohanded backhand which not everyone is wired for.

[Bungalo Bill]

This morning, hitting off a ball machine with my usual 1handed backhand, I noticed a pain in my elbow when I hit the ball, and this caused some real worries. Now, I think that this is at least partially a function of my technique, which is to straighten my arm just before I hit the ball, but I think this is similar to proper technique. This isn't the first time my elbow's hurt, either, so I'm tempted to pay this some serious attention.

So, my question is, is there some other method that I should switch to with my backhand, or should I hit with a 2hander? I've used it before, so the work I'd need to put into it isn't TOO much, but I am more used to my 1hander. Or, is there some other way I should be hitting my regular backhand to make it hurt less? I've tried a few ways, but I figured I should ask here before I made any choices, as you guys always seem to have an interesting point to make that I hadn't thought of.

It could be your racquet, strings, muscular balance in the shoulder/back area, it could be your technique.

Since you have pain, let's address that first. I deal with tennis elbow in a way that it heals fast and makes the resiliance to handling the shock the elbow takes much more resilient.

I take my thumb and I jam it deep into the area of pain - and start rubbing around. I dig the tip of my thumb as deep as I can while holding myself back from screaming. It is intense pain but pain you must get rid of.

What is happening is, a build up of toxic waste is in this area, the elbow region is irritated but since blood flow is minimal, it can't rid itself of this toxic stuff and heal. So you must get rid of it through deep tissue massage, clean it out, and allow fresh blood to rush in.

I do this 3 times a day for 5 minutes a time, every day, until the pain is almost gone. At first it is a killer! You will hate me for it now, and thank me for it later. :p

When you straighten the elbow, how are you straightening it? Is it rigid? Also, I read that you are using a head heavy racquet. This can certainly add to the fire. Are you trying to rotate your forearm to apply topspin? Do you lift weights? Pushups? Tennis elbow doesn't always just come from tennis, it could be other hobbes or sports you do.

[Amone]

Wow, Bill, I didn't expect you to show up. Honestly, I thought the thread had been put to bed, but it's nice to see I get a nice discussion instead of a 'eh. 2hander should help.'

I'm not using a head heavy racquet, though. I'm using the stock Diablo Mid right now. I used to have 2.75 oz of lead in the handle, so I only used a head heavy racquet once in the last 6 months: when I used my sister's hammer for a week or so, when I wanted to see what an XL length is like.

I think... I'm not sure if my arm is rigid in the way you're reffering to. It very well could be, I tend to stiffen it just before I hit, 'bracing for impact' if you will. I don't believe I rotate my forearm, though I do straighten my wrist through contact, and I do have a large follow through, if that's relevant. I used to work out on machines a little, to keep fit for the season, and I think I may pick that back up, but I don't play any other sports.

Your deep tissue massage suggestion's something I naturally do when I have pain like that, especially deep in like that. It. Um. Alleviates my pain. By making it worse. It doesn't make sense, but it works.

[acer]

It could be your racquet, strings, muscular balance in the shoulder/back area, it could be your technique.

Since you have pain, let's address that first. I deal with tennis elbow in a way that it heals fast and makes the resiliance to handling the shock the elbow takes much more resilient.

I take my thumb and I jam it deep into the area of pain - and start rubbing around. I dig the tip of my thumb as deep as I can while holding myself back from screaming. It is intense pain but pain you must get rid of.

What is happening is, a build up of toxic waste is in this area, the elbow region is irritated but since blood flow is minimal, it can't rid itself of this toxic stuff and heal. So you must get rid of it through deep tissue massage, clean it out, and allow fresh blood to rush in.

I do this 3 times a day for 5 minutes a time, every day, until the pain is almost gone. At first it is a killer! You will hate me for it now, and thank me for it later. :p

When you straighten the elbow, how are you straightening it? Is it rigid? Also, I read that you are using a head heavy racquet. This can certainly add to the fire. Are you trying to rotate your forearm to apply topspin? Do you lift weights? Pushups? Tennis elbow doesn't always just come from tennis, it could be other hobbes or sports you do.

Hi Bungalo Bill

I know this is an old post so I hope you see my question. I am suffering from some tennis elbow. I just wanted to know if the deep tissue massage really helped your tennis elbow? I have tried it and it does hurt while you massage the elbow. I was also curious if you found that the pain you have while giving yourself the deep tissue massage lessened more and more over time after each self deep tissue massage treatment?

Let me know.

Thanks

Acer

[Bungalo Bill]

Hi Bungalo Bill

I know this is an old post so I hope you see my question. I am suffering from some tennis elbow. I just wanted to know if the deep tissue massage really helped your tennis elbow? I have tried it and it does hurt while you massage the elbow. I was also curious if you found that the pain you have while giving yourself the deep tissue massage lessened more and more over time after each self deep tissue massage treatment?

Let me know.

Thanks

Acer

Acer,

It always either solves or increases the chance for healing. It is just painful to do it.

Guess what? I started playing tennis again! And guess what? I think I came back too quick and got a bit of tennis elbow back from overuse!

So you know what I am doing right now. OUCH!!!

Yes, the pain will lessen but depending on the degree of tennis elbow that you have the pain can be so intense that it feels it will never heal. Just keep getting cleaning that area out with your thumb - it will hurt like hell.

If you have real bad tennis elbow, you might want to dig in a littl emore gently and give your arm at least two - three weeks rest. Bad tennis elbow can take months to heal.

[acer]

Acer,

It always either solves or increases the chance for healing. It is just painful to do it.

Guess what? I started playing tennis again! And guess what? I think I came back too quick and got a bit of tennis elbow back from overuse!

So you know what I am doing right now. OUCH!!!

Yes, the pain will lessen but depending on the degree of tennis elbow that you have the pain can be so intense that it feels it will never heal. Just keep getting cleaning that area out with your thumb - it will hurt like hell.

If you have real bad tennis elbow, you might want to dig in a littl emore gently and give your arm at least two - three weeks rest. Bad tennis elbow can take months to heal.

Hey Bill

Thanks for you reply and sorry to hear that your TE is back. This TE thing is sure one tough thing to beat. I just saw a sports doctor and he told me that my posture is poor and as a result that my shoulder blade doesn't rotate properly. He said that my posture is making my shoulders roll forward and that this puts my arm out of alignment and puts stress on my arm and probably is the cause of my tennis elbow. I think I recall you mentioning in one of your posts that shoulder problems could be the cause of it. Good call.

He sent me to a phyisotherapsit who said that poor posture is common. He is getting me to do some shoulder exercises that will strenghthen the muscles between the shoulder blades which will help the posture. Bad thing is that I haven't played tennis for going on 6 weeks and my elbow still hurts especially when I do a reverse arm curl even with a low weight. Reverse wrist curls I can do but only with a bent arm. It did feel a little better after the physiotherapsit did some massaging on it.

I am also doing my 5th accupuncuture treatment today and I am not sure if this is helping much. I am pretty sure that my tennis elbow was from using a continental grip on my one hand topspin backhand. Everything I can finds says that this puts your wrist in a weak position on a topspin backhand. The physiotherapist agrees with this. Anyway, I tried to do some deep tissue massage again for a whole day. The pain does go away after a while when I do this and it did feel a little bit better the next day. The physiotherpist said that at most I should do this once a week as he said that you can reinjure it. He said however that daily I should feel the muscles going up and down my forearm and if I feel a knot I should push my finger deep into the knot and hold it for 60-90 seconds. He said it will sort of melt away the knot. If all else fails I am going to do the deep tissue massage everyday and see if it helps speed the healing. I did buy a ultrasound machine and I don't think this helped much. Anyway, hope your TE goes away. I feel your pain.

Acer