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View Full Version : is federer getting worse or is nadal that much better than everyone else?


randomname
06-19-2006, 11:08 PM
alright, I havnt been able to watch much tennis this year and was wanting opinions on people who have been watching federer play this year, obviously something has changed from last year since nadal has already beaten him as many times as he lost in 05, but my question is, has federer's game lowered or is he still in his 05 form but nadal has just elevated his game to somewhere in the massive gap between fed and the rest of the atp?

Rataplan
06-19-2006, 11:18 PM
Yet another Federer/Nadal thread :rolleyes:

What's the point? Haven't you guys discussed this to death already?

The Vitamin L
06-19-2006, 11:20 PM
I believe he has been playing great, but I would wait until the end of year before speculating if he's doing better or not. It's true that Nadal has become a roadblock as far as the clay court season is concerned, however, from what we've seen, he has done MUCH MUCH better on clay courts this year. The fact that he's elevated his game on clay enough to reach the finals in the tournaments he has entered shows that. As for Nadal, he proved that even after recovering from an injury, he's still head and shoulders above anyone on clay court at the moment. His positive results on grass suggest that he may elevate his other surface game as well, but alas, the injury. : ( Well, I suppose we'll just see in time. I'd say it's still too early to tell.

HollerOne5
06-19-2006, 11:52 PM
I believe he has been playing great, but I would wait until the end of year before speculating if he's doing better or not. It's true that Nadal has become a roadblock as far as the clay court season is concerned, however, from what we've seen, he has done MUCH MUCH better on clay courts this year. The fact that he's elevated his game on clay enough to reach the finals in the tournaments he has entered shows that. As for Nadal, he proved that even after recovering from an injury, he's still head and shoulders above anyone on clay court at the moment. His positive results on grass suggest that he may elevate his other surface game as well, but alas, the injury. : ( Well, I suppose we'll just see in time. I'd say it's still too early to tell.

Yes, lets wait until the end of the season.....why? Because of the people that say that Nadal was only a roadblock on clay, and forget the fact he joined the season late from injury, missed the first grand slam, and only played a few tournaments before the clay court season started anyways.

fastdunn
06-20-2006, 12:15 AM
I don't think Federer improved or declined.

Nadal certainly improved, didn't he ? as his ranking suggests....

bagung
06-20-2006, 06:05 AM
nadal is too hot for fed to handle

Tennis_Goodness
06-20-2006, 07:36 AM
They both improved, but Federer is so good on everything that Nadal is never going to catch up with him for a very long time, he might not catch up to him either!

Tchocky
06-20-2006, 09:11 AM
I don't agree with your poll. Roger's game has improved slightly. His clay court game is better. Nadal is coming into his prime and improving. There's only so much more Federer can do. With the exception of Nadal, he's head and shoulders above everyone. I think Nadal's physical game is catching up to him. Agassi said Nadal is writing checks his body cannot cash. Should be interesting to see how long Nadal can last careerwise.

fastdunn
06-20-2006, 11:07 AM
They both improved, but Federer is so good on everything that Nadal is never going to catch up with him for a very long time, he might not catch up to him either!

What is that "everything" Federer is so good at ?
Other than baseline game, what exactly is that "everything"
Federer can effectively execute against Nadal (either on
clay court or hard court) ?

bluescreen
06-20-2006, 11:13 AM
they say he has the best volleys in the game. and that tactic seems to work well for him against nadal.

kthomas
06-20-2006, 11:15 AM
don't put down federer. he's the best ever. nadal will wear himself out soon.

LuckyR
06-20-2006, 12:40 PM
They both improved, but Federer is so good on everything that Nadal is never going to catch up with him for a very long time, he might not catch up to him either!


Huhhh??? Last time I checked Fed had a what? .142 winning percentage against Nadal. I think Nadal doesn't have to worry about "catching up" to him, he's owning him at this point. Having said that I think (and the stats confirm this) that Fed is the better player overall, that's why he's correctly ranked #1.

Ivanišević
06-20-2006, 01:14 PM
this thread just proves that there's more fed fans than nadal fans!

Tennis_Goodness
06-20-2006, 01:24 PM
Huhhh??? Last time I checked Fed had a what? .142 winning percentage against Nadal. I think Nadal doesn't have to worry about "catching up" to him, he's owning him at this point. Having said that I think (and the stats confirm this) that Fed is the better player overall, that's why he's correctly ranked #1.

Besides clay Nadal has not proven he can compete with Federer in any other slams. That's what seperates the best from the specilialists! When Nadal starts winning other slams and gains more points then that's a different story. Right now he is way behind Federer. Federer has made it to every final he has entered this year and probablly will continue to do so. Nadal can't compete with that!

Tennis_Goodness
06-20-2006, 01:25 PM
What is that "everything" Federer is so good at ?
Other than baseline game, what exactly is that "everything"
Federer can effectively execute against Nadal (either on
clay court or hard court) ?

Federer can win every slam out there and has except one. He has made it to every final he has entered, he is way in front of Nadal and head and shoulders above everybody including Nadal!

fastdunn
06-20-2006, 01:35 PM
Federer can win every slam out there and has except one. He has made it to every final he has entered, he is way in front of Nadal and head and shoulders above everybody including Nadal!

The reason why Nadal's challenge is not trivial, IMHO, is that
Federer still wins all slams with his baseline game which doesn't
necessarily work against Nadal. That's the threatening part of
Nadal's advance. I think Federer will need to prove he has
that "everything" part of his game soon, IMHO.

The Pusher Terminator
06-20-2006, 01:47 PM
Federer can win every slam out there and has except one. He has made it to every final he has entered, he is way in front of Nadal and head and shoulders above everybody including Nadal!

Nadal has only reallycome on the tennis scene two years ago. In that short time he has won two slams and broken an all time record. Fed could not do as much as Nadal did at his age. What more can you ask of this kid? Just give Nadal a couple of more years....time is on his side!

Tennis_Goodness
06-20-2006, 06:59 PM
Exactly, give it time because right now Federer's better and I don't think Nadal will ever be as good as Roger, just watch!

mileslong
06-20-2006, 07:06 PM
agassi just backed up what i have been saying on here all year. all these nadal fans keep thinking that nadal will just get better and better. tennis is a young mans game and he is already getting injured at his young age due to his game.

he puts more stress on his body than any other player. there is no way he will last long playing that game. he will be lucky to be playing at this level when he is federers age much less agassis...

kaiotic
06-20-2006, 07:09 PM
Exactly, give it time because right now Federer's better and I don't think Nadal will ever be as good as Roger, just watch!

Totes.

Roger had about 1,000 unforced errors in the FO.
only if he had cut that in half... he could have very well completed a real GRAND SLAM cycle.

Nadal will never be as good as Fed.
just an opinion, and I do enjoy watching Nadal play, btw. his getting to every shot and his rituals on the court are quite amusing.

monologuist
06-20-2006, 07:29 PM
Federer is not playing his best tennis this year, IMO. He was injured at the beginning of the year, so maybe that has something to do with it. His serve is not as consistent and deadly as it has been in the past. He has probably lost some focus from being challenged so infrequently. He also looks like he's put on a few lbs. around the middle, although it probably doesn't affect him unless he is in a long grueling match. Of course, those only seem to occur against one man.

The fact that he as been dominated by Nadal has to have had some psycholigcal impact on him. It is hard to say at this point whether it has impacted him in terms of playing other players...who knows it may actually motivate him, as he was starting to look a bit bored out there last year. There have been moments against Nadal where the lack of confidence and the frustration coming from Roger has been almost surreal...or perhaps it is a better way to look at it that Roger's self-doubt and frustration against Nadal has made him look human, which he is, and all humas have weaknesses.

Simon Cowell
06-20-2006, 07:34 PM
Stop with the excuses about Federer's unforced errors, you lot used that excuse in last year's French Open and you're bringing it up again. Just accept the fact that Nadal has arrived as the best player in the world. The results do not lie. See sig for details.

brucie
06-21-2006, 02:54 AM
To be fair fed isnt looking great at moment, just having a bad unlucky spell hell be back and is #1 before anyone trys to deny this.

tennisaddict07
06-21-2006, 03:52 AM
Stop with the excuses about Federer's unforced errors, you lot used that excuse in last year's French Open and you're bringing it up again. Just accept the fact that Nadal has arrived as the best player in the world. The results do not lie. See sig for details.

What have you been smoking? Any blind person can see that Nadal is far from being the best player in the world. So, he beat Federer a few times that does not make him worthy of being the best player in the world. Besides, he only won the French Open. I didn't see him win Wimbledon or the US Open.

Grimjack
06-21-2006, 10:53 AM
At the end of last year, Federer was regarded as a threat to become the best ever, and Nadal was regarded as a slowcourt specialist who was no threat once the slowcourt season ended.

The only differences between this year and last year, so far:

1) Federer got even better, winning the AO, and advancing to the final of the French

2) Nadal got worse, breaking down not once, but twice -- at the AO, and now on grass as well.

Fed owns Nadal year-round, and is now even challenging him on the slow courts. Every time Nadal doesn't advance to face Fed, he loses. Remember that. To add to that shame, Nadal is now appearing to be at least five years ahead of my prediction that he'd break down physically by 25. Including the year-end Masters, he's now bowed out of two of the last three big tournaments, and already has his injury-excuse lined up for number four. With the slowcourt season over, he'll be forgotten for the rest of the year, while Federer continues his relentless march towards immortality.

That Nadal's record against Fed has improved this year -- all on slow courts -- showcases Fed's improvement, not Nadal's. Unless Nadal starts making noise at venues like Wimbledon and the USO, he's in danger of cementing his status as Guga 2. Great, fragile claycourter who could never amount to anything but a dirtballer, and then subsequently burned out before his time.

irishbanger
06-21-2006, 11:04 AM
This is a difficult question. I do think Roger peaked in late 2004/early 2005. His serve was better, and he was more aggressive. However, its hard to tell if the reason for his decline is that the field has gotten better. As far as Nadal being "better" than Roger, its just on clay. Honestly, I was surprised that Roger got to the final of the FO. The only person that can beat Roger is Nadal---there are a half dozen guys that can beat Nadal on surfaces other than clay.

grizzly4life
06-21-2006, 11:20 AM
i think federer is the same as last year.... clay just puts too much pressure on his one-handed backhand. and just far too many unforced errors.

i think a better question is whether there are some reasonably simple steps that federer could take to play even better... and i think there are. to cut down on errors at FO, play a more forgiving racquet and attack more (i.e. alot fewer touches with his 1HB). and although federer is pretty comfortable at USO, his unforced errors on the backhand can get really high there.

as for nadal inside fed's head, yes i think he is now... but nadal won't get too far at wimbledon or USO so it shouldn't matter. they meet up once or twice during hard court season though.

dozu
06-21-2006, 11:25 AM
Agassi said Nadal is writing checks his body cannot cash. Should be interesting to see how long Nadal can last careerwise.

Agassi has such a long career, not by accident... his style of play, hugging the baseline, take the ball early, baseline anchored game, Eastern FH with flat strokes.... these are high-efficiency factors in tennis.

Nadal is almost the exact opposite... he is 10 ft behind the baseline, running side to side like a rat with tail on fire, and that massive spin ball with western FH, all these are low efficiency factors that are sacrifising a lot to gain the competitive edge on the court.

Human bodies are not built to play like this..... he will break down soon for sure.... he is still 1 short of Guga's RG titles, so I wouldn't call him Guga2 yet... plus Guga 1 year reached #1 ranking by beating Agassi and Samprass back to back, on CARPET, at the year end master cup.... so Nadal's fast court achievement is not near Guga yet. And 1 more thing to rub in.... Guga's game is pleasing to the eyes.. Nadal's game is actually ugly to watch.

fastdunn
06-21-2006, 12:25 PM
In earlier days of their careers, poeple said Sampras would have
much longer career than Agassi since Agassi needs to do more
of grinding while Sampras doesn't expand much energy.

It turns out Sampras was playing on narrower margin of errors
with his precision all court game. After he had that herniated
disc injury, his game deteriorated quicker than Agassi's.

IMHO, Federer's serving not as good as 1-2 years ago.
Also after his foot injury last year, he is a bit slower.
It's supposed to be his right foot and therefore it might
affect his backhand too.

It doesn't matter much anyway because he is so much
head-and-shoulder above everybody. Of course, if someone
like Nadal take it to him very closely, maybe it's becoming
problem..

monologuist
06-21-2006, 02:44 PM
That Nadal's record against Fed has improved this year -- all on slow courts -- showcases Fed's improvement, not Nadal's.

Wrong. Dubai is not a slow court.

And ending up as the second coming of Guga Kuerten is hardly soemthing to be ashamed of, LOL.

The tennis guy
06-21-2006, 02:48 PM
In earlier days of their careers, poeple said Sampras would have
much longer career than Agassi since Agassi needs to do more
of grinding while Sampras doesn't expand much energy.

It turns out Sampras was playing on narrower margin of errors
with his precision all court game. After he had that herniated
disc injury, his game deteriorated quicker than Agassi's.

IMHO, Federer's serving not as good as 1-2 years ago.
Also after his foot injury last year, he is a bit slower.
It's supposed to be his right foot and therefore it might
affect his backhand too.

It doesn't matter much anyway because he is so much
head-and-shoulder above everybody. Of course, if someone
like Nadal take it to him very closely, maybe it's becoming
problem..

It's premature to judge Federer vs Nadal. Federer and Nadal haven't played one single match the second half of the year, ever. Second half of the year the courts are at medium or fast by design of ATP except the smaller clay events.

tlm
06-21-2006, 03:54 PM
Hey grimjack you say nadal has gotten worse?Thats a good one,Fed owns nadal year round?Lets see nadal has beat fed in 4 finals this year+he has gotten worse.

Nadal beat fed on a fast hardcourt in dubai,you know the surface that so many said he could not win on.Nadal has 2 gs at 20 years old+ is ranked #2, not bad for not improving.

Nadal has beaten fed on hardcourts 2 out of 3,he has won 6 out of 7 lifetime.And you say fed owns nadal,that sounds like some pretty good logic.

The Pusher Terminator
06-21-2006, 04:17 PM
Hey grimjack you say nadal has gotten worse?Thats a good one,Fed owns nadal year round?Lets see nadal has beat fed in 4 finals this year+he has gotten worse.

Nadal beat fed on a fast hardcourt in dubai,you know the surface that so many said he could not win on.Nadal has 2 gs at 20 years old+ is ranked #2, not bad for not improving.

Nadal has beaten fed on hardcourts 2 out of 3,he has won 6 out of 7 lifetime.And you say fed owns nadal,that sounds like some pretty good logic.

Not to mention that Nadal at 20 years old has the best clay court record in the entire history of this sport. What did Fed do by age 20???

Luca
06-21-2006, 04:52 PM
And 1 more thing to rub in.... Guga's game is pleasing to the eyes.. Nadal's game is actually ugly to watch.
For me watching Nadal on the court is just a pleasure. I enjoy watching him.Thereīs no other player like him. You canīt compare Nadalīs game to any otherīs. Heīs so particular. Heīs totally a showman, or, better said, a "showkid", funny to see, all his rituals and the way he celebrates each point. Heīs a real Fighter.And he also is a great player! What else can you ask for?.
And yes, as I always say, I also like Rogelio.;)

siber222000
06-21-2006, 05:32 PM
Yet another Federer/Nadal thread :rolleyes:

What's the point? Haven't you guys discussed this to death already?
exactly SHUT UP ABOUT THE FREAKIN NADAL AND FEDERER GOD SAKE

superman1
06-21-2006, 05:33 PM
Not to mention that Nadal at 20 years old has the best clay court record in the entire history of this sport. What did Fed do by age 20???

Some players sprout fast and then die young, some sprout fast and undergo many transformations so that they can stay on top for 2 decades (Agassi), and some take their time and do great things over the course of many years. Federer at age 20 was ranked #13 in the world, had 1 title at Milan and just beat Sampras at Wimbledon. He certainly wasn't as good as Nadal back then, but he had tons of talent and was one of the biggest hyped players. At 21 he won 3 more titles including Hamburg, beating Safin in the final. At 22 he won 7 more titles including Wimbledon and the Tennis Masters Cup. And you know the rest.

fastdunn
06-21-2006, 05:42 PM
There is a chinese saying something like "big bowl takes longer to finish".
Meaning someone with bigger potential takes longer to mature and fullfil
his/her potential.

foetz
06-22-2006, 04:33 PM
dubai was a joke. i bet it was fixed :p

fastdunn
06-22-2006, 05:03 PM
I personally think we can not say much about Dubai.
IMO, Federer used the 2nd/3rd set to experiment with net game.
The outcome was not good. For example, he came into
the net 6 straight times and lost all of them to lose a set...

Gilgamesh
06-22-2006, 06:40 PM
I havnt been able to watch much tennis this year

I believe you.

If you watched you would know why Federer lost against Nadal so much this year.

Hint...clay.

JayxTheKoolest
06-22-2006, 10:55 PM
Aren't all of the poll choices practically the same (i.e. written by a Nadal fan who doesn't want Fed to sound good)? I'd agrue that Fed has become signicantly better tennis player. I'm surprised he was even capable of making a French Open Final. On the other hand, Nadal has become a much better tennis player as well (look at his serve).

Grimjack
09-10-2006, 04:20 PM
Bump to the top. LOL.

AJK1
09-10-2006, 04:21 PM
Another juvenile thread