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View Full Version : Frankly, why is Nadal always discounted?


joy
06-22-2006, 02:58 AM
This is my serious doubt concerning the notion of most of the tennis fans who discount Nadal's chances in the Wimbledon and who underrate his prospect on grass. I seriously feel Nadal can play quite well on grass too and he is also very capable of winning this Wimbledon title. He has proved this fact last week in Queens tournament where he outplayed Hewitt in the first set, one of the top players on grass, before his shoulder injury affected him. If he plays the same way throughout the tournament, what would prevent him from beating Federer (who always has trouble and lack of confidence facing Nadal) on grass just like other surfaces and why would not he win Wimbledon? Nadal is without doubt one of the greatest champions and he has won unbeleivable matches and tournaments. How can he be discounted so easily on any surface?

cady
06-22-2006, 03:28 AM
i don't doubt that nadal can win wimbledno but frankly i don't think that he'll win it this year. as you said he had injured shoulder and i think he should change his way of playing too.

Custom+Hybrid
06-22-2006, 03:36 AM
because his game isnt well suited for lawn.

he needs a federer-esque serve and flatter groundies and better volleys

ssuHeartsRivald
06-22-2006, 03:41 AM
His drive heavy top spin is 180 degrees on the contrary to what needs to be success on grass. His grip full Western not suitable to produce speed ball with low bouncing. He's not so good service player that what you needs on grass, look out how Roddick with all weaknesses he has but cannon ball serve could advance to final 2 years back to back.

So dont give a lot to Nadal chance on Wimbly. He is lucky indeed if he can reach final on wimbly in his career.

idle_fire
06-22-2006, 03:59 AM
Frankly , that we should know about 'joy':
1. He is a Nadal groupies, see his posts. Predicted Nadal'll win this year Wimbly, predicted that on his career he'll never have a rival, and blah blah, what a ridiculous statements.
2. Just know a little about tennis. He said in one post, Nadal have no rival on clay, but Fed have many like Blake, Karlovic, Ljubicic, or Roddick. Can you believe this :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .
3. He is a liar and lot of b*** s**** because he admitted a Fed fan.
4. The Pusher Terminator clone, maybe.
5. I bet he even never plays tennis once.
6. Have just a little bit vocabs on English, frankly.

Rataplan
06-22-2006, 04:50 AM
idle_fire,
Is there a particular reason why you attack the poster instead of the post?

Ztalin
06-22-2006, 04:58 AM
We haven't seen enough of Nadal on grass to say that he can do well at Wimbledon. Last year he made it to what, second round? So he beat Verdasco and Fish, and took a set off of Hewitt. Big deal. Verdasco is no big accomplishment, and Hewitt could've had a bad set. He hasn't proven himself on grass, get over it. I'll make a prediction of when he'll lose when I see the draw, which I think should be out later today.

Brettolius
06-22-2006, 05:20 AM
You mean the same shoulder injury that he played an exhibition with this week?

8PAQ
06-22-2006, 05:23 AM
It is all just a wishful thinking on the part of Fed fans like me :D

Of course deep down we all know that Nadal one day will be in the W final and this year will likely at least get to the quarters.

Roland
06-22-2006, 05:32 AM
Frankly, because he has ONE straight set win on grass.
Frankly, because he has a 3-3 record on the stuff.
Frankly, because if federer had match points against Nadal on clay, I don't like his chances if they meet

Frankly, because this is grass. It absolutely hurts Nadal's game in almost every way, except maybe his serve.

With all that said, he is good enough to make the quarterfinals, a wimbledon title though, is out of the question for now.

Ztalin
06-22-2006, 05:33 AM
It is all just a wishful thinking on the part of Fed fans like me :D

Of course deep down we all know that Nadal one day will be in the W final and this year will likely at least get to the quarters.

Honestly, I WANT Nadal to make the final. That's wishful thinking on my part. I want it to happen so that Fed can defeat him. However, I KNOW deep down inside that Rafa will not make it past the 4th round. He'll be lucky to get to the 4th round.

Eviscerator
06-22-2006, 06:40 AM
The way they are slowing down grass court play, almost any good baseliner like Hewitt has more of a chance, but Nadal's extreme grip will not be as effective. The ball will be lower as a rule, so it will not be in his optimum hitting zone. His serve is only average for a pro so he will not win as many free points as his big serving opponents, and his service return will not be as effective since he wont have as much time. He will also need to work on his net game if he wants to be successful on grass.

So is it possible for him to win on grass?
Sure with the right draw, a few injuries/upsets, and the courts playing slow with dry weather anything is possible. However the odds are still against him, so don't bet the family farm on him winning.

textbook strokes
06-22-2006, 10:52 AM
Just not mature enough for grass this year, but remember he is only 20, so in future years... who can deny he will have a better chance?...Sorry I forgot to mention... Roger also have that chance for RG.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-22-2006, 12:03 PM
Nadal might make 1 Wimbledon semi in his whole career. It wont be this year either.

fastdunn
06-22-2006, 12:41 PM
Wimbledon grass courts now practically bounces like hard courts.

I would expect we'll have a French Open champion who also wins
Wimbledon in the next decade or so.
Or even in same year ?

I would think something wrong with current generation of players
if they don't win bothwith these slowed conditions at WImbledon
and generally homogenious playing style, WTA baseline style of whole ATP tour.
That includes Federer and Nadal, IMHO.

GRANITECHIEF
06-22-2006, 01:13 PM
I want to see Nadal play Roddick or Agassi or Ancic on the green stuff.

federerhoogenbandfan
06-22-2006, 01:13 PM
fastdunn, I think you overestimate how similar the surfaces are today. They are a bit more similar then they used to be, but still extremely different, and I certainly dont notice grass today being "high bouncing" court, not even close.

superman1
06-22-2006, 03:43 PM
If Nadal wins Wimbledon, then Wimbledon really needs to change those courts back to the way they once were. Otherwise there's absolutely no reason to even have high maintenance grass at all. Just put in hard courts and be done with it. Nadal's game is the opposite what has been successful on grass for the entirety of tennis history. If Nadal's game is enough to win Wimbledon or get to the final against Federer, then men's tennis is really at an all-time low if there is not one person who is smart enough to neutralize his game on the surface.

fastdunn
06-22-2006, 03:55 PM
fastdunn, I think you overestimate how similar the surfaces are today. They are a bit more similar then they used to be, but still extremely different, and I certainly dont notice grass today being "high bouncing" court, not even close.

Don't say "you" here. That's not exactly what "I" am overestimating.
And I never said it's "high bouncing". They now have cememnt layer
below grass layer and I said it bounces like hard court.

Who am "I" after all ? I never played on WImbledon after all.
I am simply quoting what some of NEWS ARTICLES said on this issue.
How about you ? Have you played on Wimbledon ?
What is that you're "noticing" based on ?

Brettolius
06-22-2006, 04:08 PM
Is that right? They have a layer of concrete under the grass? Not saying it's not true, just that I've never heard that. Can anyone confirm?

MordredSJT
06-22-2006, 04:17 PM
This is so simple.

Did Nadal have a great clay court season last year and win the French Open?

What did he do at Wimbledon?

Why should I think anything has really changed?

Odds are incredibly strong that Nadal will get bounced as soon as he runs into a good enough grass court player, so how far he gets depends entirely on his draw.

The tennis guy
06-22-2006, 04:28 PM
Wimbledon grass courts now practically bounces like hard courts.


That's what everyone is saying, but it is exegeration because it is relative to old soft grass. Even today's W grass, the bounce is still lower than the fastest hardcourt US Open.

I am sure you are going to ask how I know. I grew up playing on old grass court, still my favorite surface. I also had played on today's firm grass, not at W. It is significant higher bouncing wise relative to soft grass, but as I said it is still lower than US Open, which I also played on those courts.

When Nadal starts to do well on US Open court, then I'd start to give him a chance on grass.

Gilgamesh
06-22-2006, 05:38 PM
This is my serious doubt concerning the notion of most of the tennis fans who discount Nadal's chances in the Wimbledon and who underrate his prospect on grass. I seriously feel Nadal can play quite well on grass too and he is also very capable of winning this Wimbledon title. He has proved this fact last week in Queens tournament where he outplayed Hewitt in the first set, one of the top players on grass, before his shoulder injury affected him. If he plays the same way throughout the tournament, what would prevent him from beating Federer (who always has trouble and lack of confidence facing Nadal) on grass just like other surfaces and why would not he win Wimbledon? Nadal is without doubt one of the greatest champions and he has won unbeleivable matches and tournaments. How can he be discounted so easily on any surface?

Nadal's strengths in his game just don't translate well on grass. Plus, he has a less than stellar grass record to date.

All of that of course doesn't mean Nadal can't improve and one day hoist that big plate over his head. The guy is 20 and has years to make "adjustments" but he will definitely be in contention for the AO next year and the UO later this year.

Simon Cowell
06-22-2006, 06:21 PM
Only dummies underestimate him. He is a warrior and can win on all surfaces. I think it's possible for him to make adjustments to his game on the grass and will his way to victory. Don't forget he can flatten it out for winners when he wants to. He creates crazy winners off all different angles.

D-man
06-22-2006, 06:46 PM
He'll be out in the second round.

jukka1970
06-22-2006, 07:02 PM
It's not that Nadal doesn't have the drive, and certainly is very competitive. But I think it just comes down to his weapons in the game. On grass the extreme top spin is going to have the opposite effect on grass. It's the slice that can be very dangerous on grass.

As he learns to tailor his game, I believe he'll go further. But just like Federer has had to learn some new tricks for clay courts, Nadal is going to need to learn them for grass.

As far as having Hewitt in trouble, if this was 5 years ago, then I'd say it's significant, but Hewitt is not the player he was 5 years ago. Sure his ranking is coming up, but he's not the opposing force on grass that Federer and some of the others are. 5 years ago he was, but with all the injuries etc, he isn't now. So having Hewitt in trouble doesn't really give much insight to Nadal's play on grass.

jukka1970
06-22-2006, 07:11 PM
Only dummies underestimate him. He is a warrior and can win on all surfaces. I think it's possible for him to make adjustments to his game on the grass and will his way to victory. Don't forget he can flatten it out for winners when he wants to. He creates crazy winners off all different angles.

Yeah and only dummies wouldn't realize that of those 4 tournaments that Nadal won over Federer, 3 are Clay and 1 is hard court. Ever hear of comparing the same surfaces. Grass compared to Grass. What you're doing is comparing apples to oranges.

gokou703
06-22-2006, 07:19 PM
i really don't see nadal going far in the draw. his game doesn't suit grass at all. his left handed spin serve loses it's effectiveness. his topspin forehand will sit in most people's target zone. basically his margin of error type of game isn't suited for grass where flatter more overpowering strokes relay so fastn and so low offf the ground.

on another note. too bad nadal isn't *** successful as federer is on clay. it is not until then we can legitimately really compare the two IMO. his 1 on 1 score with federer would be far less immpressive if he played just as many matches against federer on grass than he has played on clay against him. he is young, but his mechanics through a complete transformation. i'm not saying he won't be successful. i'm just saying he honestly has a long ways to go on grass. his grinding type game can be overpowered against big hitters like federer, lubi., etc...

JayxTheKoolest
06-22-2006, 09:52 PM
This is so simple.

Did Nadal have a great clay court season last year and win the French Open?

What did he do at Wimbledon?

Why should I think anything has really changed?

Odds are incredibly strong that Nadal will get bounced as soon as he runs into a good enough grass court player, so how far he gets depends entirely on his draw.

This is by far the most logical post I read in this thread.

Robbie_1988
06-23-2006, 05:59 PM
This is my serious doubt concerning the notion of most of the tennis fans who discount Nadal's chances in the Wimbledon and who underrate his prospect on grass. I seriously feel Nadal can play quite well on grass too and he is also very capable of winning this Wimbledon title. He has proved this fact last week in Queens tournament where he outplayed Hewitt in the first set, one of the top players on grass, before his shoulder injury affected him. If he plays the same way throughout the tournament, what would prevent him from beating Federer (who always has trouble and lack of confidence facing Nadal) on grass just like other surfaces and why would not he win Wimbledon? Nadal is without doubt one of the greatest champions and he has won unbeleivable matches and tournaments. How can he be discounted so easily on any surface?

Well he is being discounted purely because his results and record on grass is not good. Why do you sound like he has such a great chance on grass? I can't find the thread but somewhere in a post a few weeks back there was a suggestion that Federer has more chance of winning on clay than Nadal does on grass.

He may be great but to say he's one of the greatest is a bit too much. Wait till he wins Australian Open, US Open and Wimbledon. Ya can't say he's one of the greatest champions. What kind of champion is that? To only win a grand slam on clay.

But yes, he is a "great champion" on clay. No doubt about that.

dmastous
06-23-2006, 06:22 PM
If Nadal wins Wimbledon I'll eat my racquet.
Wait a minute.... I said that about Agassi, and I still get queasy thinking about that....
If he wins this Wimbledon this year I'll eat my.... my lunch.
To be serious, his game just isn't suited for grass. I've tried to play on grass. It's not good for a topspin groundstroker. The ball stays low, it doesn't sit up like it does on clay. Nadal wins by hitting heavy topspin and running down every shot so you have to hit 2 or 3 winners to win a point. One 1 will be needed on grass. He'll have some success. He may make to the second week even, if he has a favorable draw (a bunch of other claycourters on the menu would be nice thank you). But if he's matched up against a good serve and volley player or all court player like Blake, he'll be toast. Burnt toast.

Robbie_1988
06-23-2006, 09:53 PM
If Nadal wins Wimbledon I'll eat my racquet.
Wait a minute.... I said that about Agassi, and I still get queasy thinking about that....
If he wins this Wimbledon this year I'll eat my.... my lunch.
To be serious, his game just isn't suited for grass. I've tried to play on grass. It's not good for a topspin groundstroker. The ball stays low, it doesn't sit up like it does on clay. Nadal wins by hitting heavy topspin and running down every shot so you have to hit 2 or 3 winners to win a point. One 1 will be needed on grass. He'll have some success. He may make to the second week even, if he has a favorable draw (a bunch of other claycourters on the menu would be nice thank you). But if he's matched up against a good serve and volley player or all court player like Blake, he'll be toast. Burnt toast.

Amen to that brother.

T_S_N
06-23-2006, 10:05 PM
Nadal might make 1 Wimbledon semi in his whole career.

Thats bull, he wont make a semi this year (im pretty sure), but he will definately make atleast 1 in his whole career, and it is definately possbile that he could win wimbledon sometime in his career.

Tennis_Goodness
06-23-2006, 10:14 PM
Nadal doesn't have the tools to win Wimby. Plus there are better players then him on grass!