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looseswing
06-30-2006, 06:37 AM
I was watching the Fed match today and the channel showed something odd. It displayed serve winning percentages and apparently Fed won more points off his second serve than his first. Was I just seeing things or did anyone else catch this?

ken1d
06-30-2006, 07:15 AM
second serve is more important then your first serve. You win your matches by having good second serve percentage. Remamber Joachim Johansson hit like 50 something aces against aggassi at aussie open like last year. well, guess what? he stiil lost the match in 4 setter. you know why? because he failed to back up his second serve. Aggassi got some good look at his second serv and waam... got the breaks. Thats it

LowProfile
06-30-2006, 07:36 AM
second serve is more important then your first serve. You win your matches by having good second serve percentage. Remamber Joachim Johansson hit like 50 something aces against aggassi at aussie open like last year. well, guess what? he stiil lost the match in 4 setter. you know why? because he failed to back up his second serve. Aggassi got some good look at his second serv and waam... got the breaks. Thats it

I agree with you on the second serve part, but that part about the Agassi-Johannson match is not true. Agassi never got a look at the second serve because JJ was hitting two first serves throughout that entire match. JJ resolved to go all out on every single shot that he could during that match and Agassi commented on how it gave him absolutely no rhythm. Johannson knew that if he got into a rally with Agassi, Agassi would win the point nine times out of ten.

looseswing
06-30-2006, 09:21 AM
Well you guys might have indirectly answered my question. I thought it was second serve win percentage- first serve win percentage should basically almost be higher than it, but it might have said just how often it went in, although I would think it would have been higher because the number was something like 80% and Fed did not have more than two or three double faults.

LowProfile
06-30-2006, 10:00 AM
Well you guys might have indirectly answered my question. I thought it was second serve win percentage- first serve win percentage should basically almost be higher than it, but it might have said just how often it went in, although I would think it would have been higher because the number was something like 80% and Fed did not have more than two or three double faults.

Wait second serve percentage? Like the percent of second serves he got in? They don't have that as a stat because it's assumed that they got every second serve in except for the double faults. What you saw was the second serve winning percentage, which may have been higher than the percentage of first serves that he got in.

So you were probably comparing two unrelated stats.

looseswing
06-30-2006, 10:12 AM
That might have been it, thanks.

annihilatorpro
06-30-2006, 10:29 AM
Federer is known for having an amazingly high second service winning percentage. He has a lot to back up his decent serve (he's got arguably the best forehand on the tour, a nice backhand, and can volley well). With his first serve, any player is more likely to hit the ball out. On the second serve, the assumption is that the player will take some ooomph out of the ball and make sure it gets in. For tennis players who have strong serves and a weak overall game, their first serve winning percentage will be higher (a guy like Ivo Karlovic for instance). But most players, I believe it's the VAST majority of pro players, have a higher chance of winning their second service point simply because it's more likely that they will not fault that point before even getting to ralley and play it out. The stat for this is somewhere in the June 2006 edition of TENNIS magazine

snoflewis
06-30-2006, 11:36 AM
He has a lot to back up his decent serve (he's got arguably the best forehand on the tour, a nice backhand, and can volley well).

federer does in fact have a nice forehand and can volley well (although he doesnt volley a lot these days), i disagree that he has a nice backhand. nice looking? yes....effective, somewhat. it's still considered to be his weakest point, which is why he is constantly attacked by nadal's lefty forehand.

FedererUberAlles
06-30-2006, 12:04 PM
federer does in fact have a nice forehand and can volley well (although he doesnt volley a lot these days), i disagree that he has a nice backhand. nice looking? yes....effective, somewhat. it's still considered to be his weakest point, which is why he is constantly attacked by nadal's lefty forehand.

Against Nadal's lefty forehand with tons of topspin on high bouncing surfaces. Hmm...

The tennis guy
06-30-2006, 12:38 PM
Federer won 72% off his first serve points, 79% off his second serve points in his match today.

annihilatorpro
06-30-2006, 12:49 PM
On page 18 of the June 2006 edition of Tennis Magazine:
"In 2005, 98 of the Top 100 men had a higher probability of winning a point on a second serve than a first."

The short article goes on to state that Federer has the highest second serve winning percentage at 59%. It makes perfect sense when you think about it; the serve is only effective if it makes it into the box and more often then not, the first serve will sail long or hit the net relative to the second serve. However, the percentage of winning a point AFTER the serve has gone in is most likely skewed towards first serves. And, even though the second serve may appear to be more effective in winning in the long run, it also takes a lot more energy to play out the point as opposed to trying to hit the ace, which explains the importance of getting a nice first serve and second serve.

Golden Retriever
06-30-2006, 01:40 PM
I think Federer has this unique short down-the-line second serve that really throws his opponent off and also very high in percentage. It is highly effective on grass too because it bounces low like it has some kind of underspin. I think he actually invented that shot.

looseswing
06-30-2006, 06:30 PM
Oh, for the first serves I thought that win percentage was measured counting only first serves that landed inside the court.

doriancito
06-30-2006, 07:03 PM
federer's serve is an enigme listen carefully to the hit when they show it on TV, is sounds different rom others, could be a new spin

LowProfile
06-30-2006, 07:20 PM
...it's still considered to be his weakest point, which is why he is constantly attacked by nadal's lefty forehand.

It's his weakest point precisely because the rest of his game is so damn good. So his backhand is vulnerable to one man. The rest of the tour still has problems consistently attacking it. This doesn't make his backhand bad. Federer has an extremely versatile backhand, which makes it less singularly effective than his explosive forehand, but it is still an immensely effective shot, especially on the non-clay surfaces.

shawn1122
06-30-2006, 07:44 PM
I would take Federer's backhand over any other pro's. When he hits it, its like he's painting a picture. And that short angle crosscourt passing shot is not too shabby either.