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tangerine
07-01-2006, 03:43 PM
Apologies if someone has already posted this article before.

In fact, if it has been posted before I ask that the mods please delete this thread.

More sportsmanship questions for Nadal
Matthew Cronin / tennisreporters.net
June 30, 2006

WIMBLEDON, England - About an hour after his heroic 6-7 (4), 3-6, 7-6 (2), 7-5, 6-4 win Thursday in the second round at Wimbledon over the inspired American journeyman Robert Kendrick, Rafael Nadal's wide smile had disappeared.

The Spaniard is angry because he feels that he has a target on his back, placed there by a few fellow players, officials and administrators.

He's not sure who is entirely responsible for why chair umpires are all over him for taking too much time between points, but he's stressed out about it and feel it's completely unfair.

"In February and March, when I wasn't doing that well, no one was saying anything about it," said the Spaniard, who is 39-4 this year. But since I started playing well, everything's changed and I haven't changed anything. It's like it's become a problem with my personality and all of a sudden I'm causing all these problems."

Nadal fought very hard to subdue Kendrick, who served and volleyed like he never had before and was just two points from the match in the third set. On a surface that he is unfamiliar with (one that doesn't allow him to extend points), the 20-year-old Spaniard was often left struggling.

But he never put his head down, stayed mentally solid, began to serve better and found his passing game. Kendrick looked like the better player on the day, but the flashier man doesn't always come through, especially against a two-time Grand Slam champion.

But Nadal's super-charged celebration after the tremendous comeback was short-lived.

Sportsmanship questions persist

He was very upset that he received a warning in the third set for taking too much time and was irked that the umpire overruled two of his balls that landed close to the line in the final game.

Later, he threw out a mini-conspiracy theory and named a few names, saying the campaign against him could have started two weeks before the French Open after the Rome final, when Roger Federer accused Nadal's uncle, Tony, of coaching him from the stands.

He said the conspiracy grew worse in the Roland Garros semifinals, when the chair umpire told Nadal's agent, Carlos Costa, that if he didn't stop yelling toward Nadal (the Spaniard said Costa was only yelling "Vamos, Rafa!") he would give Nadal a coaching warning.

"I heard Ljubicic's coach yelling to him the whole match, and the chair umpire didn't say anything to him," Nadal said.

Then, a week later in Queens, he was stunned when an official approached him the day after his match against Fernando Verdasco, and asked him to hurry up play in his next match.

"I know I have my faults, Nadal said. "But other players do things they could be talked to about. The chair umpires need to have more of their own personalities and make their own decisions, rather than listening to what someone is telling them about me. They need to watch me and see what is really happening."

Against Kendrick, Nadal felt the umpire was pushing him too hard, even though he has specific routines before he starts points.

"Today, I was told I needed to change how I returned serve, that I needed to bend down faster," he said. "It puts me under a lot of pressure. Kendrick is serving when I am not prepared, but that's supposed to be OK. I asked, 'Wait one second? The referee said to me, 'You can't do that.' That's a new rule, maybe.'"

Last year, after he won his first French Open, Nadal was still a happy go-lucky teen who wasn't expecting to win every time on court.

But now that the world No. 2 has beaten top ranked Roger Federer six out of seven times and looks like a surefire No.1 in the future, he's become a slightly more serious man with a lot of weight of his shoulders.

No athlete wants to be called unsportsmanlike, and that's what Nadal believes is happening to him.

Unquestionably, he does take a lot of time in between points and admits that, but he thinks he is playing fair and doesn't want to be painted as a guy who is looking to bend the rules.

"It's not very nice for me," he said. "It's like I'm someone with a problem."

BigboyDan
07-01-2006, 03:54 PM
He has to adapt, especially to "time wasting" - part of being a pro; if he doesn't, he will OPENLY be accused of gamesmanship.

malakas
07-01-2006, 04:01 PM
Great article!Haven't read it before.So..the warnings actually bother Nadal..But he seem not to consider irritating his own habits and the time he takes between points..Interesting..

safinlives
07-01-2006, 04:03 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHA "picked on." i love the irony!!!

Tennis_Goodness
07-01-2006, 04:04 PM
Nadal's going to have to learn to deal with it, especially being number 2 in the world.

Grimjack
07-01-2006, 04:22 PM
A "heroic" win over a journeyman?

LowProfile
07-01-2006, 05:06 PM
A "heroic" win over a journeyman?

Oh the irony eh?

zampano
07-01-2006, 05:54 PM
ok, he has to consider the time and adapt, but still the routines, it's not fair, i know it's irritating, but that's how he plays since he was 3, and he needs to concentrate.

arosen
07-01-2006, 06:04 PM
Empires should simply say "time" at the end of that mandatory 20 second period between points. Simple as that, and they should enforce it universally. You can cook a lunch in the time it takes Mary Pierce to start playing. Megan Shaughnessy practically does a little juggling act that lasts up to a minute before she serves. He is not the only one doing it, and he should just come out and say that a lot of people on tour do it and they either should enforce it for all or none.

Ken B.
07-01-2006, 06:48 PM
I would like to see universal enforcement (Shaughnessy took forever when she was playing match point against Dementieva), but it will never happen.

My personal opinion is he can do whatever he wants to on clay until he starts losing. He is the best right now on that surface, and can get away with it.

grass and the hardcourts are another thing entirely. That's Fed's surfaces, and he has to be understand he is going into another man's house and as such should obey those rules.

But honestly, dont act like you arent doing anything wrong when you are taking up a lot of time.

Someone just needs to pelt him with a ball while playing as a warning to knock it off.

atac
07-01-2006, 08:10 PM
Maybe I should pelt you with a ball!

scotus
07-01-2006, 08:15 PM
OP wrote: "Nadal feels like he's being picked on."

So, his butt isn't the only thing being picked on.

TXKiteboarder
07-01-2006, 08:31 PM
maybe him being spanish, the language misinterprets his quotes or when someone says something to him. even when fed talks, his english is not that great and things get lost in the interpretation.

nadal seems like a nice guy with a very ugly girlfriend (he can do alot better).

HollerOne5
07-01-2006, 08:38 PM
Honest question, would you rather play against someone like Nadal or someone like Sharapova who is screaming on each shot? Either way, you do have to admit that top players receive criticisim for these types of things rather than lower ranked players. If a player is doing these things but you are still beating them handily, why bother complaining? People like to complain and blame their losses on other things, so I think Rafael has handled this well. Remember when Seles was number one, the tour waited to complain about her grunting, even though she always grunted since she came on the tour. People have serious issues....

HollerOne5
07-01-2006, 08:41 PM
I would like to see universal enforcement (Shaughnessy took forever when she was playing match point against Dementieva), but it will never happen.

My personal opinion is he can do whatever he wants to on clay until he starts losing. He is the best right now on that surface, and can get away with it.

grass and the hardcourts are another thing entirely. That's Fed's surfaces, and he has to be understand he is going into another man's house and as such should obey those rules.

But honestly, dont act like you arent doing anything wrong when you are taking up a lot of time.

Someone just needs to pelt him with a ball while playing as a warning to knock it off.

Thats the dumbest post I've read all day

carrwash13
07-01-2006, 11:10 PM
Umpires following the rules of tennis does not equal being picked on. Plus that whole putting his hand up everytime his opponent is going to serve is ridiculous and would seriously bother me. I thought the returner was supposed to play at the pace of the server?

equinox
07-02-2006, 02:40 AM
Nadal can take how ever long within the rules when serving.
But when he's receiving he must play at the reasonable pace of the server.

It's the umpires call on reasonable pace, steffi graffs pace would be considered unreasonably fast and nadals to slow.

slice bh compliment
07-02-2006, 03:04 AM
Empires should simply say "time" at the end of that mandatory 20 second period between points. Simple as that, and they should enforce it universally. ....

Thank you. Done. Ideally.

But there is pressure to stay out of things and let the players be the players. I am all for less officialdom, but the 20 second thing seems like an easy thing to enforce.

I can totally see universal enforcement backfiring if a player is taking a few seconds during a fourth set breaker, though.

equinox
07-02-2006, 03:31 AM
Make it mandatory. If the server hasn't started the point within 20 seconds he automatically loses the point. They could automate it with beeps.

If the receiver isn't ready when the server serves, that's just to bad.

Heh, toweling off again nadal? boom ace! game federer.

slice bh compliment
07-02-2006, 03:38 AM
...They could automate it with beeps.....

Cool idea, but ... on every single court in all of pro/college/tournament tennis? Hmmm.
Again, I am all for it, but they've got their work cut out for them.

pound cat
07-02-2006, 04:39 AM
"In February and March, when I wasn't doing that well, no one was saying anything about it," said the Spaniard, who is 39-4 this year. But since I started playing well, everything's changed and I haven't changed anything. It's like it's become a problem with my personality and all of a sudden I'm causing all these problems."

Here's the problem IMO, and it's more than taking too long at the service box.

The tennis, "world" made up of old boys wearing suits and in the case of Wimbledon, officials wearing cream cololured pants and pin-striped shirts, has suddenly taken a good look at Nadal, and said "three is a distinct possibility this guy may actually displace Federer as #1 in a year or 2, and he may actually win Wimbledon. and the rest of the slams. And we don't want that.

Nadal, with his happy family and simple life would be a terrible replacement for Mr. Sophistication in his cream coloured jacket...and he doesn't fit in with the historical vision of what tennis is, who plays it, and who's the best at it. Just like the William sisters problem.


Read this Rafa, and say to heck with you all.

VAMOS

Captain America
07-02-2006, 06:30 AM
Interesting that Nadal seems offended that the officials would rush his between-points routine.

Perhaps the officials are paying increased attention Nadal's rituals because they cross the line into gamesmanship on a regular basis. 'Icing' the server at critical junctures is just not right. And yes, the rules should be applied universally and not just enforced against Nadal because he's one of the most blantant (and visible) abusers of them.

Ken B.
07-02-2006, 07:03 AM
The tennis, "world" made up of old boys wearing suits and in the case of Wimbledon, officials wearing cream cololured pants and pin-striped shirts, has suddenly taken a good look at Nadal, and said "three is a distinct possibility this guy may actually displace Federer as #1 in a year or 2, and he may actually win Wimbledon. and the rest of the slams. And we don't want that.


BS. The guy just needs to speed up. Murray went for a towel after every point yesterday but still got back to baseline and ready in under 20 seconds. Nadal can't do that too?

Saito
07-02-2006, 07:11 AM
"In February and March, when I wasn't doing that well, no one was saying anything about it," said the Spaniard, who is 39-4 this year. But since I started playing well, everything's changed and I haven't changed anything. It's like it's become a problem with my personality and all of a sudden I'm causing all these problems."

Here's the problem IMO, and it's more than taking too long at the service box.

The tennis, "world" made up of old boys wearing suits and in the case of Wimbledon, officials wearing cream cololured pants and pin-striped shirts, has suddenly taken a good look at Nadal, and said "three is a distinct possibility this guy may actually displace Federer as #1 in a year or 2, and he may actually win Wimbledon. and the rest of the slams. And we don't want that.

Nadal, with his happy family and simple life would be a terrible replacement for Mr. Sophistication in his cream coloured jacket...and he doesn't fit in with the historical vision of what tennis is, who plays it, and who's the best at it. Just like the William sisters problem.


Read this Rafa, and say to heck with you all.

VAMOS

Though I understand both sides (Nadal's and official's), rules are rules. If he's wondering why it's become a problem as of late, he's already answered that question. It IS because he has gone up in the rankings that he is getting "picked on". Think about it.... of course they're not going to be paying much attention to someone who isn't winning. That's how it's always been. Start winning and of course the eyes turn your way. If he can't handle that, well... that's really his issue and not theirs IMO. That's just the way things have been and will always be.

Your comment about it being favoritism (see above bolded...) has nothing to do with it. That's a fanboy comment. Realize that he's a rookie that happens to be breaking a rule, something Federer and many other rising talents DID NOT do when they first started coming up.

Look at Mariano Puerta, last year's RG runner-up: came back from a drug suspension, and went through qualies all the way to the finals. Then gets popped again for steroid abuse. Why?? Because he was winning. He played in Houston right before that, but wasn't caught until RG. He didn't go far in the Houston draw, therefore eyes weren't on him at that time.

malakas
07-02-2006, 07:16 AM
Though I understand both sides (Nadal's and official's), rules are rules. If he's wondering why it's become a problem as of late, he's already answered that question. It IS because he has gone up in the rankings that he is getting "picked on". Think about it.... of course they're not going to be paying much attention to someone who isn't winning. That's how it's always been. Start winning and of course the eyes turn your way. If he can't handle that, well... that's really his issue and not theirs IMO. That's just the way things have been and will always be.

I second that.

edberg505
07-02-2006, 07:58 AM
Though I understand both sides (Nadal's and official's), rules are rules. If he's wondering why it's become a problem as of late, he's already answered that question. It IS because he has gone up in the rankings that he is getting "picked on". Think about it.... of course they're not going to be paying much attention to someone who isn't winning. That's how it's always been. Start winning and of course the eyes turn your way. If he can't handle that, well... that's really his issue and not theirs IMO. That's just the way things have been and will always be.

Your comment about it being favoritism (see above bolded...) has nothing to do with it. That's a fanboy comment. Realize that he's a rookie that happens to be breaking a rule, something Federer and many other rising talents DID NOT do when they first started coming up.

Look at Mariano Puerta, last year's RG runner-up: came back from a drug suspension, and went through qualies all the way to the finals. Then gets popped again for steroid abuse. Why?? Because he was winning. He played in Houston right before that, but wasn't caught until RG. He didn't go far in the Houston draw, therefore eyes weren't on him at that time.


That's quite true. I remember Federer saying in an interview one time that they test him for illegal substances like every single chance they get. I can assure you that if Federer was taking too much time in between points, they would call him on it as well.

Eviscerator
07-02-2006, 08:15 AM
The umpires need to enforce the rules and the players need to abide by them. It is as simple as that.

HollerOne5
07-02-2006, 09:39 AM
Though I understand both sides (Nadal's and official's), rules are rules. If he's wondering why it's become a problem as of late, he's already answered that question. It IS because he has gone up in the rankings that he is getting "picked on". Think about it.... of course they're not going to be paying much attention to someone who isn't winning. That's how it's always been. Start winning and of course the eyes turn your way. If he can't handle that, well... that's really his issue and not theirs IMO. That's just the way things have been and will always be.

Your comment about it being favoritism (see above bolded...) has nothing to do with it. That's a fanboy comment. Realize that he's a rookie that happens to be breaking a rule, something Federer and many other rising talents DID NOT do when they first started coming up.

Look at Mariano Puerta, last year's RG runner-up: came back from a drug suspension, and went through qualies all the way to the finals. Then gets popped again for steroid abuse. Why?? Because he was winning. He played in Houston right before that, but wasn't caught until RG. He didn't go far in the Houston draw, therefore eyes weren't on him at that time.

This is different. Substance abuse and WINNING can be directly related, because abusing substances is supposed to unnaturally improve your ability and give you an edge. Of course, if you are winning you will get tested to make sure it is all natural.

But, just because a player takes the full 20 seconds, or sometimes 25 or so, or whatever Nadal takes, does not have an effect on how well he plays the game or how well his opponent does not play the game. People are just looking for something to complain about, and rattle Nadal when he is playing. Although I think he should speed up sometimes in between his serve points, holding up your hand a split second before your server is about to serve is ok if you aren't even in ready return position. I've had this many times before too, feeling like I'm being rushed. If you go right to the baseline to return and right then your opponent tosses up the ball to serve, that IS annoying.

HollerOne5
07-02-2006, 09:40 AM
And refresh my memory, but I'm sure there is a list of past "champions" and not underachievers that have gone under similar scrutiny from players, probably mainly from the fact that they can't beat them correct?

Sharapova and Seles for grunting?

McEnroe for his loud mouth and antics?

Any others?

malakas
07-02-2006, 09:43 AM
This is different. Substance abuse and WINNING can be directly related, because abusing substances is supposed to unnaturally improve your ability and give you an edge. Of course, if you are winning you will get tested to make sure it is all natural.

But, just because a player takes the full 20 seconds, or sometimes 25 or so, or whatever Nadal takes, does not have an effect on how well he plays the game or how well his opponent does not play the game. People are just looking for something to complain about, and rattle Nadal when he is playing. Although I think he should speed up sometimes in between his serve points, holding up your hand a split second before your server is about to serve is ok if you aren't even in ready return position. I've had this many times before too, feeling like I'm being rushed. If you go right to the baseline to return and right then your opponent tosses up the ball to serve, that IS annoying.

What?
As Nadal protests about rushing him,it MEANS,that it has an effect on how well he plays the game.
And as many opponents of him,get frustrated,it MEANS that it bothers them = they don't play as well.SO ..it DOES have an effect on how well they play.

HollerOne5
07-02-2006, 09:47 AM
What I mean is, its obviously going to have a bigger effect if you are being "quick-served" and the server is serving when you aren't even ready. If you are ready and the guy is taking his time, you need to adjust. At least at this point, you will always be prepared. Thats what I'm saying.

I've played many tournaments, and I was never mentally stable in my matches lol at first. So, if I played a player that took incredibly long in between points, I would get ancy and irritated, and let it throw me off MENTALLY yes. But eventually, you have to just concentrate on your game and be thinking about what YOU should do on the court, rather than worry about how much time your opponent is taking. If you are worried about that on the court, then your head isn't in the right place.

Thats all I'm saying.

Saito
07-02-2006, 09:50 AM
This is different. Substance abuse and WINNING can be directly related, because abusing substances is supposed to unnaturally improve your ability and give you an edge. Of course, if you are winning you will get tested to make sure it is all natural.

But, just because a player takes the full 20 seconds, or sometimes 25 or so, or whatever Nadal takes, does not have an effect on how well he plays the game or how well his opponent does not play the game. People are just looking for something to complain about, and rattle Nadal when he is playing. Although I think he should speed up sometimes in between his serve points, holding up your hand a split second before your server is about to serve is ok if you aren't even in ready return position. I've had this many times before too, feeling like I'm being rushed. If you go right to the baseline to return and right then your opponent tosses up the ball to serve, that IS annoying.

It's not different... RULES ARE RULES... simple as that.

Saito
07-02-2006, 09:51 AM
What I mean is, its obviously going to have a bigger effect if you are being "quick-served" and the server is serving when you aren't even ready. If you are ready and the guy is taking his time, you need to adjust. At least at this point, you will always be prepared. Thats what I'm saying.

I've played many tournaments, and I was never mentally stable in my matches lol at first. So, if I played a player that took incredibly long in between points, I would get ancy and irritated, and let it throw me off MENTALLY yes. But eventually, you have to just concentrate on your game and be thinking about what YOU should do on the court, rather than worry about how much time your opponent is taking. If you are worried about that on the court, then your head isn't in the right place.

Thats all I'm saying.

By this you are basically saying that it's ok for someone to not follow rules. I don't believe you, especially if what is at stake is your livelihood. Sorry, but at their level, they are more than entitled to want to nitpick at rules. They get paid for it, where we don't.

I'm not a Nadal-hater or Fed-fanboy so don't come at me like I am one. I love great tennis, esp. this recent Fed-Nadal rivalry. I'm simply stating that if tennis was my career, and someone was not doing what they were supposed to, I would be glad to point that out.

I will agree that you are right that if it affects the opposing player that much, then their head isn't in the right place. But like it says earlier:

It's not different... RULES ARE RULES... simple as that.

malakas
07-02-2006, 09:53 AM
If you are quick served you SHOULD adjust to the rhythm of your opponent.
If you want your opponent to serve faster,and he DOES serve within the time that is allowed by the rules, then again you SHOULD adjust.

Otherwise,you just lose your concetration and your perfomance drops and you can lose.
But,the rules MUST be followed.And that's the right thing to do.

If you critisize the officials for not following the rules and not being so much critical when Nadal wasn't as famous and didn't win so much,you ARE right.
But that has absolutely NOTHING to do,with the fact that they ARE right to critisize and warn him NOW.
Just because they did a fault before,you can't claim that they must keep on doing this fault!!

equinox
07-02-2006, 09:54 AM
After watching and timing a few sets of nadal matches.
I'm now convinced Nadal deliberately stalls so he can recover and save his energy.
Some opponents could argue that what Nadal does borders on cheating and should be banned.

kooyah
07-02-2006, 09:56 AM
Though I understand both sides (Nadal's and official's), rules are rules. If he's wondering why it's become a problem as of late, he's already answered that question. It IS because he has gone up in the rankings that he is getting "picked on". Think about it.... of course they're not going to be paying much attention to someone who isn't winning. That's how it's always been. Start winning and of course the eyes turn your way. If he can't handle that, well... that's really his issue and not theirs IMO. That's just the way things have been and will always be.

Your comment about it being favoritism (see above bolded...) has nothing to do with it. That's a fanboy comment. Realize that he's a rookie that happens to be breaking a rule, something Federer and many other rising talents DID NOT do when they first started coming up.

Look at Mariano Puerta, last year's RG runner-up: came back from a drug suspension, and went through qualies all the way to the finals. Then gets popped again for steroid abuse. Why?? Because he was winning. He played in Houston right before that, but wasn't caught until RG. He didn't go far in the Houston draw, therefore eyes weren't on him at that time.

Stop bringing common sense into the equation! Nadal is being persecuted - it's like he's Jesus Christ, for crying out loud!!!

Saito
07-02-2006, 09:59 AM
Stop bringing common sense into the equation! Nadal is being persecuted - it's like he's Jesus Christ, for crying out loud!!!

ok..... fanboy

kooyah
07-02-2006, 10:00 AM
Do you understand sarcasm when you see it?

HollerOne5
07-02-2006, 10:00 AM
Well, whether or not Nadal is doing it purposely, I agree that its in the rules when it comes to taking too much time on his own serve. Do I think he does it on purpose? Absolutely not....he just has weird ticks like a lot of players, and one of his is that he must towel off between each and every point and adjust his clothes etc. Its annoying, but if he is taking around the 20 seconds, or just a couple over, its never going to be called.

When it comes to being quick served, there is an acceptable pace to play at......Jennifer Capriati and Steffi Graf used to play so fast that the returner should never have had to adjust. Being ready to serve right after the point ended is ridiculous.

What I don't understand is, when its a really hot day, like 90 degrees, the commentators are always saying something like "Oh Federer (example, or any player) definitely won't complain about the time delay Nadal takes today because it is just so hot out there." Well, so he is only allowed to complain when it doesn't help him too huh? Guarantee if someone was beating Nadal in straight sets, they wouldn't complain ONCE about his time stalling.

chess9
07-02-2006, 10:24 AM
Rafa isn't being picked on. He's NOT being picked on. That's the problem. He's been getting away with taking a siesta between service points for about 18 months or so. Sheezh....

And this isn't the biggest rules problem on the tour. The biggest rules problem is all the foot faulting going on and so little enforcement. Some of those guys are serving from the service line! If Kendrick can serve from the baseline so can the rest of the pros. I'm really suprised we hear so little about this problem. It's the one rule that is rarely enforced, but it's cheating.

By the way, Kendrick showed enormous class and skill in his loss to Rafa. That was one of the best displays of serve and volley tennis I've seen since a few of Roscoe Tanner's matches.

-Robert

HollerOne5
07-02-2006, 10:28 AM
Is it coincidence then that foot faults seem to be enforced a lot during Lleyton Hewitt matches, because he is so disliked?

dh003i
07-02-2006, 10:31 AM
Why is it that Nadal should get special treatment, and be allowed to cheat?

That's what it is: cheating. Sure, for players who aren't too spectacular, maybe they get away with that a little. On the other hand, maybe they get chastized. Of course, it should be enforced universally, ideally: but the reality is, it's most important for the best players on tour.

So I ask again, why is Nadal allowed to cheat? Federer doesn't cheat. He receive's serve at the server's pace, and serves within the time-limits. Nadal is breaking the rules, it's as simple as that. Federer and Sampras didn't do that when they were just beginning their time as great players. Federer also didn't do that when he was 19.

So much for Nadal being a "great guy". A "great guy" wouldn't be offended by being asked to play within the rules. He would admit that the request was reasonable, that he was at fault, and adjust his game to play within the rules. As other's have noted, you can towel off and get back to the line on time.

Maybe the folks at Wimbledon should be concerned about Nadal possibly being #1, after Federer retires. After all, you don't want someone is a cheater representing the sport

rlbjr
07-02-2006, 10:32 AM
The rules are simple. The reciever shall play to the servers reasonable pace. Players are allowed a maximum length of time between points. If a player consistently violates either rule, that player should be warned. If the violation continues the player should be penalized. To continue to violate the rule, even when it is part of your "routine", IS unsportsmanlike. Golfers get put 'on the clock' for slow play. Poker players can call the clock for slow decision makers.
Football teams must snap the ball within a certain time or lose yardage. Time limits are not unique to tennis. Frankly, Rafa should quit the griping and follow the rules.

malakas
07-02-2006, 10:35 AM
The rules are simple. The reciever shall play to the servers reasonable pace. Players are allowed a maximum length of time between points. If a player consistently violates either rule, that player should be warned. If the violation continues the player should be penalized. To continue to violate the rule, even when it is part of your "routine", IS unsportsmanlike. Golfers get put 'on the clock' for slow play. Poker players can call the clock for slow decision makers.
Football teams must snap the ball within a certain time or lose yardage. Time limits are not unique to tennis. Frankly, Rafa should quit the griping and follow the rules.

And football players get yellow cards if they keep stalling.

equinox
07-02-2006, 10:47 AM
Maybe rafa takes so long between points because he's trying to have an intellectual chat with his uncle tony or or his bf in the players box..

edberg505
07-02-2006, 10:49 AM
Well, whether or not Nadal is doing it purposely, I agree that its in the rules when it comes to taking too much time on his own serve. Do I think he does it on purpose? Absolutely not....he just has weird ticks like a lot of players, and one of his is that he must towel off between each and every point and adjust his clothes etc. Its annoying, but if he is taking around the 20 seconds, or just a couple over, its never going to be called.

When it comes to being quick served, there is an acceptable pace to play at......Jennifer Capriati and Steffi Graf used to play so fast that the returner should never have had to adjust. Being ready to serve right after the point ended is ridiculous.

What I don't understand is, when its a really hot day, like 90 degrees, the commentators are always saying something like "Oh Federer (example, or any player) definitely won't complain about the time delay Nadal takes today because it is just so hot out there." Well, so he is only allowed to complain when it doesn't help him too huh? Guarantee if someone was beating Nadal in straight sets, they wouldn't complain ONCE about his time stalling.

Of course they would. Why stop because your winning? I'd do it.

Rataplan
07-02-2006, 10:52 AM
In Agassi's last Wimbledon match, Rafael Nadal didn't take much time to get ready on Agassi's serve. So, he respected the server's pace there.

However, when it was his own time to serve, he did take a bit more time (and I was not watching it with a stopwatch but I don't think he went over the given limit either). Now, that was too slow for Agassi as well by the looks of it because Agassi went to sit on the chair of the line judge with a smile on his face to make a deliberate statement to Nadal (at least, it's my impression).

Now, if Nadal has tried to cut back time on the opponent's serve and he tries to respect Agassi's time to get ready to serve...then Agassi should respect Nadal's pace to serve. Clear and simple.

The fact is that Agassi likes a fast pace...his serve or the opponent's serve, doesn't matter...he likes it fast and he tries to impose his tempo on his opponent.
That's fair IMO because a tennis match is a battle of wills but this story has two sides and you guys (or most of you) are only looking at it from one side.

It's like Jimmy Connors said on the BBC: some players like to rush Nadal but Rafael Nadal is experienced enough and mentally tough enough to not let them do that.

Saito
07-02-2006, 11:09 AM
Do you understand sarcasm when you see it?

My apologies... Been attacked one too many times here on these boards. :p *turns super kung-fu defense off*

Is it coincidence then that foot faults seem to be enforced a lot during Lleyton Hewitt matches, because he is so disliked?

I like Hewitt too, but I do believe he really does FF when they call it on him. He overreacted couple of times due to that. Just look at his service form. It's easy to see how he could either easily FF or someone could call one on him mistakenly.

Steve Huff
07-02-2006, 12:03 PM
I don't think he's being called out for his slowness when serving, it's his slowness when returning. According to the rules, he has so many seconds to serve, and as a returner, he must play at the server's pace. When the server is ready to serve, he cannot constantly take more time, just to keep the server out of rhythem.

vive le beau jeu !
07-02-2006, 12:04 PM
Apologies if someone has already posted this article before.

In fact, if it has been posted before I ask that the mods please delete this thread.

More sportsmanship questions for Nadal
Matthew Cronin / tennisreporters.net
June 30, 2006

WIMBLEDON, England - About an hour after his heroic 6-7 (4), 3-6, 7-6 (2), 7-5, 6-4 win Thursday in the second round at Wimbledon over the inspired American journeyman Robert Kendrick, Rafael Nadal's wide smile had disappeared.

The Spaniard is angry because he feels that he has a target on his back, placed there by a few fellow players, officials and administrators.

He's not sure who is entirely responsible for why chair umpires are all over him for taking too much time between points, but he's stressed out about it and feel it's completely unfair.

"In February and March, when I wasn't doing that well, no one was saying anything about it," said the Spaniard, who is 39-4 this year. But since I started playing well, everything's changed and I haven't changed anything. It's like it's become a problem with my personality and all of a sudden I'm causing all these problems."

Nadal fought very hard to subdue Kendrick, who served and volleyed like he never had before and was just two points from the match in the third set. On a surface that he is unfamiliar with (one that doesn't allow him to extend points), the 20-year-old Spaniard was often left struggling.

But he never put his head down, stayed mentally solid, began to serve better and found his passing game. Kendrick looked like the better player on the day, but the flashier man doesn't always come through, especially against a two-time Grand Slam champion.

But Nadal's super-charged celebration after the tremendous comeback was short-lived.

Sportsmanship questions persist

He was very upset that he received a warning in the third set for taking too much time and was irked that the umpire overruled two of his balls that landed close to the line in the final game.

Later, he threw out a mini-conspiracy theory and named a few names, saying the campaign against him could have started two weeks before the French Open after the Rome final, when Roger Federer accused Nadal's uncle, Tony, of coaching him from the stands.

He said the conspiracy grew worse in the Roland Garros semifinals, when the chair umpire told Nadal's agent, Carlos Costa, that if he didn't stop yelling toward Nadal (the Spaniard said Costa was only yelling "Vamos, Rafa!") he would give Nadal a coaching warning.

"I heard Ljubicic's coach yelling to him the whole match, and the chair umpire didn't say anything to him," Nadal said.

Then, a week later in Queens, he was stunned when an official approached him the day after his match against Fernando Verdasco, and asked him to hurry up play in his next match.

"I know I have my faults, Nadal said. "But other players do things they could be talked to about. The chair umpires need to have more of their own personalities and make their own decisions, rather than listening to what someone is telling them about me. They need to watch me and see what is really happening."

Against Kendrick, Nadal felt the umpire was pushing him too hard, even though he has specific routines before he starts points.

"Today, I was told I needed to change how I returned serve, that I needed to bend down faster," he said. "It puts me under a lot of pressure. Kendrick is serving when I am not prepared, but that's supposed to be OK. I asked, 'Wait one second? The referee said to me, 'You can't do that.' That's a new rule, maybe.'"

Last year, after he won his first French Open, Nadal was still a happy go-lucky teen who wasn't expecting to win every time on court.

But now that the world No. 2 has beaten top ranked Roger Federer six out of seven times and looks like a surefire No.1 in the future, he's become a slightly more serious man with a lot of weight of his shoulders.

No athlete wants to be called unsportsmanlike, and that's what Nadal believes is happening to him.

Unquestionably, he does take a lot of time in between points and admits that, but he thinks he is playing fair and doesn't want to be painted as a guy who is looking to bend the rules.

"It's not very nice for me," he said. "It's like I'm someone with a problem."

poor little... so he's paranoiac now ?

he only gets what he deserves...

HollerOne5
07-02-2006, 12:10 PM
dh003i, you are the biggest Nadal basher I've seen in awhile, almost to a delusional world you are living. Nadal is not a cheater. A cheater would have this going on his mind....

"I'm going to take a long time between points on purpose because it will throw off my opponents game and give me a distinct advantage in winning."

Do you really think Nadal is saying to himself, lets take long long and longer amount of time in between points? I'm pretty sure he is just concentrating and deciding what to do on the next point. He's a smart player, and knows what he is doing. But taking too long is not something he is doing on purpose to benefit his game or to throw off his opponent's game, so calling him a "cheater" is a bit weird. Gunther Parshe part 2 = dh003i

Simon Cowell
07-02-2006, 12:13 PM
I think the Federer fans are getting really nervous! They want Nadal out as soon as possible! If Nadal played Roger in the final and beat him (which he probably would), they would absolutely melt down because it proves even more so that Nadal is the best tennis player in the milky way galaxy.

malakas
07-02-2006, 12:18 PM
dh003i, you are the biggest Nadal basher I've seen in awhile, almost to a delusional world you are living. Nadal is not a cheater. A cheater would have this going on his mind....

"I'm going to take a long time between points on purpose because it will throw off my opponents game and give me a distinct advantage in winning."

Do you really think Nadal is saying to himself, lets take long long and longer amount of time in between points? I'm pretty sure he is just concentrating and deciding what to do on the next point. He's a smart player, and knows what he is doing. But taking too long is not something he is doing on purpose to benefit his game or to throw off his opponent's game, so calling him a "cheater" is a bit weird. Gunther Parshe part 2 = dh003i

How can you be pretty sure?Are you a medium?Can you tell what a player is thinking in his mind?

As long as he keeps breaking the rules,there were always be doubts and implies that the reason he does it is to throw off his opponents game.
I also,think that partly that's the reason why he does it.
And you must know,that I am NOT a nadal-hater,NOR a Fed-lover.
And I also,think that most of them are very annoying.

Rataplan
07-02-2006, 12:41 PM
How can you be pretty sure?Are you a medium?Can you tell what a player is thinking in his mind?
Two can play that game: how can you be sure it isn't just a matter of concentration? Are YOU a medium? Can YOU tell what a player is thinking in his mind?

As long as he keeps breaking the rules,there were always be doubts and implies that the reason he does it is to throw off his opponents game.
I also,think that partly that's the reason why he does it.
Being a medium again, malakas?

You're not sure of that either, are you? It's your interpretation of things.
As long as there is doubt, it's exaggerated to use the word cheater and it's exaggerated to say that he deliberately does these things.

And PLEASE, he does not constantly break the rules so people...stop blowing it out of proportion as if he's doing some major rule breaking here.
Are you guys so insecure about Nadal that you need to pick him apart like that?

malakas
07-02-2006, 12:45 PM
Two can play that game: how can you be sure it isn't just a matter of concentration? Are YOU a medium? Can YOU tell what a player is thinking in his mind?


Being a medium again, malakas?

You're not sure of that either, are you? It's your interpretation of things.
As long as there is doubt, it's exaggerated to use the word cheater and it's exaggerated to say that he deliberately does these things.

And PLEASE, he does not constantly break the rules so people...stop blowing it out of proportion as if he's doing some major rule breaking here.

Ehm..I said I THINK..I didn't say..I am pretty SURE!:rolleyes:
Plus..I didn't discredit COMPLETELY his opinion as HE and YOU do,because I am NOT a medium.:rolleyes:

And as soon as he keeps doing it there are going to be doubters.Exaggeration is to say there is ABSOLUTELY NO chance that he doesn't do it deliberately.

Saito
07-02-2006, 12:49 PM
Two can play that game: how can you be sure it isn't just a matter of concentration? Are YOU a medium? Can YOU tell what a player is thinking in his mind?


Being a medium again, malakas?

You're not sure of that either, are you? It's your interpretation of things.
As long as there is doubt, it's exaggerated to use the word cheater and it's exaggerated to say that he deliberately does these things.

And PLEASE, he does not constantly break the rules so people...stop blowing it out of proportion as if he's doing some major rule breaking here.
Are you guys so insecure about Nadal that you need to pick him apart like that?

I have nothing to be insecure about Nadal whatsoever, so that part of your post is irrelevant. Get your facts straight. Regardless of whether he does it all the time or not, cheating is cheating. It's their livelihood, the bread maker. Of course they will nitpick, because if they don't win, they don't get paid. That behavior maybe ok in low level tennis, but this is a General PRO player discussion is it not?

Rataplan
07-02-2006, 12:56 PM
Using a double standard, malakas?
I'm pretty sure he is just concentrating and deciding what to do on the next point
That's what HollerOne5 wrote.
He/she did NOT write: I am sure but he/she wrote I'm PRETTY sure. That indicates that it's his or her observation without being absolutely sure and neither does he or she indicate being able to read Nadal's mind.


And as soon as he keeps doing it there are going to be doubters.Exaggeration is to say there is ABSOLUTELY NO chance that he doesn't do it deliberately.
I really do think that we need to pick the middle road here. If you're asking us to let you have your interpretation of things (OMG, CHEATER) than you've got to give others the freedom to have their interpretation of things as well, don't you think?

Neither of us can look into his brain so:
* NO, we don't know that he does it deliberately so YES, it is possible that he does NOT do it to throw off people
* NO, we don't know that he doesn't do it deliberately so YES, it is possible that he does play little mind games.


Again, he received 3 time warnings in RG and he hasn't received one yet in Wimbledon. He does NOT constantly break that time rule.

Rataplan
07-02-2006, 01:02 PM
cheating is cheating. It's their livelihood, the bread maker?
Oh come on...you guys are such a bunch of drama queens.


A match doesn't fall or stand on a time warning and if it does throw the opponent off than this indicates that he has a weak frame of mind in my opinion.
If a PRO can't handle the mental side of the sport, he shouldn't be a PRO.
Rafael Nadal got only 3 time warnings in RG and none at Wimbledon and I don't remember him getting one in 2005.

If another player rushes Nadal, then you don't mention a thing but Nadal takes his time between points (and in most cases, within the given time limit) and it's: OMG, CHEATER....it's their livelihood, the bread maker?
Yeah right.

Well...this is pointless. To you guys, he's a cheater. Fine.
I disagree.
It looks like we're not going to convince each other.

Saito
07-02-2006, 01:05 PM
It looks like we're not going to convince each other.

It looks like it, doesn't it? But in reality, I'm not trying to convince you of anything but fact. :)

does not constantly means sometimes, right?

And PLEASE, he does not constantly break the rules so people...stop blowing it out of proportion as if he's doing some major rule breaking here.

malakas
07-02-2006, 01:11 PM
Using a double standard, malakas?

That's what HollerOne5 wrote.
He/she did NOT write: I am sure but he/she wrote I'm PRETTY sure. That indicates that it's his or her observation without being absolutely sure and neither does he or she indicate being able to read Nadal's mind.



I really do think that we need to pick the middle road here. If you're asking us to let you have your interpretation of things (OMG, CHEATER) than you've got to give others the freedom to have their interpretation of things as well, don't you think?

Neither of us can look into his brain so:
* NO, we don't know that he does it deliberately so YES, it is possible that he does NOT do it to throw off people
* NO, we don't know tht he doesn't do it deliberately so YES, it is possible that he does play little mind games.


Again, he received 3 time warnings in RG and he hasn't received one yet in Wimbledon. He does NOT constantly break that time rule.

You seem to have a problem with me,accusing me always of using double standards.When did I ask you to accept ONLY my interpretation of things??
When did I discredit completely the possibility that he does it ONLY for concetration?:rolleyes:
You were the ONE,who accused me of pretending to be MYSELF a medium when I say what I THINK the reason why he does it.Hollerone was the ONE,who discredited
dh003i oppinion that he does it for that reason and said..oh how you can think that?I am pretty sure that he is no cheater because he does it for other reasons.To discredit someone's else opinion and sayin..oh..you must be wrong because I am pretty sure that it's the other way around ,isn't it like pretending to be a medium?

When did I call him a CHEATER?When?:confused:

And yes.He constantly does it.And yes he has receaved ONLY 3 warnings not because he didn't do it..but because he umpires didn't give him warnings.And YES he has ALREADY recieved a warning in Wimby.

Pfff..it's only wasted time..:rolleyes: I should have known it and not get myself into this flamewar.I don't even really care for Nadal or for Fed.But a lot of you in here seem to worship them and have secret abilities to know what they think and feel.

Bichigo
07-02-2006, 01:13 PM
It looks like it, doesn't it? But in reality, I'm not trying to convince you of anything but fact. :)

does not constantly means sometimes, right?

http://img7.picsplace.to/img7/24/saf1.gif

newrevolution
07-02-2006, 01:18 PM
rataplan, anyone who loves tennis does not wait 25-30 seconds to get on with it, unless its a strategy. no one loves to play this sport and will take that long, plain and simple. he uses his self up through a match playing defense and knowingly cheats (takes to much time) to start the next point. when other players are voicing this to officials he, has to make the necessary steps to not do it (along with anyone else). if it happens more than 3 times in a match, its a problem, and it does!!!! no one needs to read minds, to know what hes thinking. its clear by lack of haste to towel off (body language and facial expressions) no need to read minds! i think he is as bad as todd martin = very bad = gamesmanship!

Matthew
07-02-2006, 01:20 PM
Its a shame everyone is making such a big deal about this. If Nadal was doing anything wrong, then chair umpires would call him on it. If they don't call him on it, then he is free to take as much time as he likes. It is what he feels he needs to do to prepare to play a point. He is obviously slightly neurotic and has little quirks that he does before almost every point. If he needs to do those things to win, by all means go for it because its not against the rules and it really isn't affecting his opponents play (or if it is, then I wouldn't consider that player to be a terribly great player).

HollerOne5
07-02-2006, 01:20 PM
What a bunch of biotches and drama queens

Rataplan
07-02-2006, 01:29 PM
You seem to have a problem with me,accusing me always of using double standards.When did I ask you to accept ONLY my interpretation of things??
Always? I accused you of that ONE time.
You're now using the same kind of exaggeration on me as you do on Nadal?
I always accuse you of using a double standard and he always breaks the rule?
That explains a few things.

But you were using a double standard but you don't seem to accept that so read it back, please.
You have a go at HollerOne5 for giving his/her interpretation of things as FACT which he/she didn't. It was clear that it was just an opinion.
That's why I addressed you.

I don't have a problem with you at all...but I do recognize a double standard when I see it. It's nothing personal.

have secret abilities to know what they think and feel.
You're not getting it, do you?
Neither of us know what these guys think and feel and I did stress that I accept that. We're only expressing an opinion. As long as we're doing that, it's silly to accuse one poster of imagining being able to read a player's mind and then set off on writing a viewpoint as if you're citing facts (yes, he cheats...I know he cheats...he breaks the rules all the time)...no, he does not.

malakas
07-02-2006, 01:43 PM
Always? I accused you of that ONE time.
You're now using the same kind of exaggeration on me as you do on Nadal?
I always accuse you of using a double standard and he always breaks the rule?
That explains a few things.

But you were using a double standard but you don't seem to accept that so read it back, please.
You have a go at HollerOne5 for giving his/her interpretation of things as FACT which he/she didn't. It was clear that it was just an opinion.
That's why I addressed you.

I don't have a problem with you at all...but I do recognize a double standard when I see it. It's nothing personal.


You're not getting it, do you?
Neither of us know what these guys think and feel and I did stress that I accept that. We're only expressing an opinion. As long as we're doing that, it's silly to accuse one poster of imagining being able to read a player's mind and then set off on writing a viewpoint as if you're citing facts (yes, he cheats...I know he cheats...he breaks the rules all the time)...no, he does not.

First time we post in the same thread and you already personally accused me of being hypocrite.Twice.Lol.Nice to know that you don't have anything against me..:rolleyes:

But ..really.I still can't understand why you think that I use double standards.I said that he shouldn't discredit dh003i opinion that he does it on purpose.And I said that what I thought but he may be right and I don't discredit any opinion.
If double-standard is what I think it is..then please explain me why you think that I use it.Because I don't see it.

When someone breaks the rules,the doubters and the implies will always continue.Rafa should not give anyone the opportunity to doubt him..;)

Personally,I hope that Rafa doesn't go to the semis and the finals.But I have my own fan-girl's reasons for it.;)

Rataplan
07-02-2006, 01:50 PM
First time we post in the same thread and you already personally accused me of being hypocrite.Twice.Lol.Nice to know that you don't have anything against me..:rolleyes:
Nope, I may have used the term more than once but it's for only ONE incident. That's hardly "always", is it?

When someone breaks the rules,the doubters and the implies will always continue.
Well, I think that every single player breaks those strict rules from time to time but to call it cheating is wrong in my opinion.
Roger smashing a ball over the crowd into the sea out of frustration? Bad boy, he broke one of the rules....got a warning for it.
Let's go along the list of the ATP players and they will all break the rules from time to time. They're bad, bad boys.

You're using this time rule thing (OMG, CHEATER) to come down on Rafael Nadal and fair enough...that's your opinion but I don't see it as cheating.
Why not?
Well, to me that's like in those cases that I don't wait for the red light to turn green to cross the street when I'm on foot and there's no traffic. OMG, CRIMINAL...I broke the rules.

It's an exaggeration in my opinion.
It's not in your opinion.
Fair enough.


PS The word "hypocrite" is yours, not mine.

malakas
07-02-2006, 01:55 PM
Listen Rataplan,

Yes,I see double standars as implying that I am a "hypocrite" even if you didn't use the exact word.

And,of course everyone breaks the rules once in a while.Fed the always "good" boy,does it some times too.;)
But..Rafa does it a lot and ALMOST in EVERY match he plays.That's why there are so many discussions on it,while there are not on Fed.

And,be careful because I today I was almost three times run over a car because I didn't wait for the light.Ouf.:( Stupid drivers.:p

pound cat
07-02-2006, 01:58 PM
Its a shame everyone is making such a big deal about this. If Nadal was doing anything wrong, then chair umpires would call him on it. If they don't call him on it, then he is free to take as much time as he likes. It is what he feels he needs to do to prepare to play a point. He is obviously slightly neurotic and has little quirks that he does before almost every point. If he needs to do those things to win, by all means go for it because its not against the rules and it really isn't affecting his opponents play (or if it is, then I wouldn't consider that player to be a terribly great player).

Right, It's up to the umpire. . BTW, according to ATP rules, how many seconds is a player allowed before he serve? 28 seconds, 25 seconds, 20 seconds have all been posted here, and various numbers in between have all been posted here.

malakas
07-02-2006, 01:59 PM
20 seconds I believe.But I don't have a link to provide.:(

mileslong
07-02-2006, 03:08 PM
i wish that the next time nadal sticks his hand up to stall the server, a 130 mph dunlop would drill right into his palm...

zampano
07-02-2006, 03:15 PM
Its a shame everyone is making such a big deal about this. If Nadal was doing anything wrong, then chair umpires would call him on it. If they don't call him on it, then he is free to take as much time as he likes. It is what he feels he needs to do to prepare to play a point. He is obviously slightly neurotic and has little quirks that he does before almost every point. If he needs to do those things to win, by all means go for it because its not against the rules and it really isn't affecting his opponents play (or if it is, then I wouldn't consider that player to be a terribly great player).


exactly

edberg505
07-02-2006, 03:29 PM
i wish that the next time nadal sticks his hand up to stall the server, a 130 mph dunlop would drill right into his palm...

Dude, that's hilarious. I had to laugh because I've seen it happen before.

emcee
07-02-2006, 03:37 PM
If the 20 sec time limit is enforced, don't you think there should be extra time allowed for break points, match points, and the like?

What about when the server is ready to serve but the crowd is still cheering for a bit? What if the server tosses the ball up at 19 seconds but it's a terrible toss? Will he try to hit it in anyway because he doesn't want to get penalized or will he catch it? What if it's at 5-6 in the tiebreaker? It's hard to enforce a strict rule like that.

But what Rafa does is clearly in violation of the rules, and he does it very often. It's gamemanship and it should be stopped, but of course, the powers that be often end up being powerless against stopping gamemanship.

ubel
07-02-2006, 04:00 PM
If the 20 sec time limit is enforced, don't you think there should be extra time allowed for break points, match points, and the like?

What about when the server is ready to serve but the crowd is still cheering for a bit? What if the server tosses the ball up at 19 seconds but it's a terrible toss? Will he try to hit it in anyway because he doesn't want to get penalized or will he catch it? What if it's at 5-6 in the tiebreaker? It's hard to enforce a strict rule like that.
What if Nadal starts getting ready for the next point too fast, and I no longer have enough time to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich before his next serve? The horror.. To be completely honest, every match I've seen of Nadal, I feel as if a little piece of me dies inside as I wait for him to get ready to serve and return. All the little feet movements, the grip changes and hand flicks, the face-whiping, sock-fixings.. it's just delay and bad sportsmanship to try and throw off his opponents game, just like Venus's unbelievably forced yelping as she got trounced this previous week.

I wouldn't mind the guy at all, and I actually do like watching his groundstrokes and his incredible speed.. but I can't help but hate him as a player whenever I think about how fast he runs to the baseline at the beginning of matches, then completely grinding to a halt inbetween points. I shouldn't have to hope that he has a higher first serve percentage so that I can see something remotely interesting.

florida88
07-02-2006, 04:14 PM
It changes tempo of play/game "Matthew". Its unnecessary. He's 20, he has time to change that habit, maybe more time than the time he wastes on court. If he has Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), then he needs a doctor/psychiatrist.

Maria Sharapova's grunts does not ruin anyones game.

florida88
07-02-2006, 05:07 PM
I was going to enjoy his first round match but it just took so long, I turned the channel to FIFA WC and became a soccer fan.

VamosRafa
07-02-2006, 05:31 PM
This thread is a testament to the fact that people have to complain about something.

Rafa is very respectful to his opponents. He doesn't trash talk them. He doesn't yell at umpires. He doesn't throw raquets or hit balls out of the stadium when he gets frustrated. He overrules favorable line calls if he thinks they are wrong.

Yesterday, he held back and gave Agassi his moment to say goodbye to the fans. And we later learned that as they stepped onto court, Rafa stopped to tie his shoe so Agassi would walk out ahead of him, to give him that moment as well.

If the worst that can be said about him is that he likes to take his time between points -- something he has always done, mind you -- well, the Tour and the fans will have to live with it. He'll continue to get time violation warnings, just as other players will continue to get warnings for abusing the umpire or smashing their racquets, etc.

He does seem to be making some adjustments, such as by avoiding pulling his socks and such. And maybe he'll speed up play, but given that his natural instinct is to play slow, he probably is going to find it difficult to speed up play when he's in a tight situation in a big match. It's easy for folks in their armchairs to say he should play faster, but another, when he's the one on centre court who is facing elimination.

Rataplan
07-02-2006, 05:52 PM
It changes tempo of play/game "Matthew". Its unnecessary.
That's BS. The tempo of play/game of which player? The game is played with two players out there.
Not everybody has to have a fast pace and it's not necessary to let the fastest of the two dictate the pace or are you guys making up the rules as you go along here?


Again: looking at the Agassi/Nadal match. Agassi likes a fast tempo...whether it's on his serve or on his opponent's serve...he likes it fast.
Nadal likes a slower tempo. In their match on Saturday, Nadal respected Agassi's pace (cutting down time, getting ready much faster) but he took a bit more time on his own serve (within the time limit but slower). Agassi had to deal with the fact that he had to respect Nadal's pace just like Nadal needed to deal with Agassi's faster pace.

It seems to me that many of you have a very short attention span that you have problems with taking a bit of time in between points. It's not that bad, guys.

superman1
07-02-2006, 05:55 PM
When you're playing Agassi in what looks to be his last match at Wimbledon, and you're making him sit down and wait for you to get ready to serve, something is wrong.

slice bh compliment
07-02-2006, 05:58 PM
This thread is a testament to the fact that people have to complain about something.

Rafa is very respectful to his opponents. He doesn't trash talk them. He doesn't yell at umpires. He doesn't throw raquets or hit balls out of the stadium when he gets frustrated. He overrules favorable line calls if he thinks they are wrong.

Yesterday, he held back and gave Agassi his moment to say goodbye to the fans. And we later learned that as they stepped onto court, Rafa stopped to tie his shoe so Agassi would walk out ahead of him, to give him that moment as well.

If the worst that can be said about him is that he likes to take his time between points -- something he has always done, mind you -- well, the Tour and the fans will have to live with it. He'll continue to get time violation warnings, just as other players will continue to get warnings for abusing the umpire or smashing their racquets, etc.

He does seem to be making some adjustments, such as by avoiding pulling his socks and such. And maybe he'll speed up play, but given that his natural instinct is to play slow, he probably is going to find it difficult to speed up play when he's in a tight situation in a big match. It's easy for folks in their armchairs to say he should play faster, but another, when he's the one on centre court who is facing elimination.

He is awesome. And a GREAT sport. He carries himself with wisdom beyond his years. Beyond Becker or McEnroe's years.
The picking of the bum is funny. The sockpulling and the water bottle thing? Who cares?
The time violations? Why? He can win without taking that kind of time.
In life, and in business....and in sports...sometimes you've got to pick your battles.
His team ought to pick the battle of time violations. He is a good enough player not to need an extra few seconds here and there.
Re: You "testament that people have to complain about something" line is brilliant. It absolutely applies to everything but the little rule he seems to flirt with.

Peace.

Vamos Nadal.....Pame Marco, Davai Dima and of course, Hopp Schweiz!

Rataplan
07-02-2006, 05:59 PM
When you're playing Agassi in what looks to be his last match at Wimbledon, and you're making him sit down and wait for you to get ready to serve, something is wrong.
BS

1. Agassi has always been a player to rush his opponents and no need to bring in the sentimental stuff to change that fact.
2. Go and watch (or rewatch) that match. Nadal did not overstep the limit - he did not get a time warning. It's not because he doesn't sprint to the baseline to get ready for his next serve and it's not because he takes a bit more time on his own serve that he does anything wrong.


*violin music* but it's Agassi's last Wimbledon *dramatic music* :rolleyes:
You guys are really getting desperate here with finding new excuses to blow this out of proportion.

florida88
07-02-2006, 06:20 PM
That's BS. The tempo of play/game of which player? The game is played with two players out there.
Not everybody has to have a fast pace and it's not necessary to let the fastest of the two dictate the pace or are you guys making up the rules as you go along here?


Again: looking at the Agassi/Nadal match. Agassi likes a fast tempo...whether it's on his serve or on his opponent's serve...he likes it fast.
Nadal likes a slower tempo. In their match on Saturday, Nadal respected Agassi's pace (cutting down time, getting ready much faster) but he took a bit more time on his own serve (within the time limit but slower). Agassi had to deal with the fact that he had to respect Nadal's pace just like Nadal needed to deal with Agassi's faster pace.

It seems to me that many of you have a very short attention span that you have problems with taking a bit of time in between points. It's not that bad, guys.

We'll see if that same "respect" applies to the next match. He's a great player, but you have to look at both sides not just the kiss butt Nadal side. He wipes his head when there is no sweat, choke on a banana that he chewed.

VamosRafa
07-02-2006, 06:21 PM
When you're playing Agassi in what looks to be his last match at Wimbledon, and you're making him sit down and wait for you to get ready to serve, something is wrong.

Nobody made Agassi sit down. Agassi did that to make his own point -- fine, it was made, although it made him look a bit petty in what was his Wimbly swansong.

VamosRafa
07-02-2006, 06:23 PM
When you're playing Agassi in what looks to be his last match at Wimbledon, and you're making him sit down and wait for you to get ready to serve, something is wrong.

Nobody made Agassi sit down. Agassi did that to make his own point -- fine, it was made, although it made him look a bit petty in what was his Wimbly swansong. It just showed his frustration with Rafa's game more than anything else.

Alexandros
07-02-2006, 06:41 PM
It's not just Agassi though, Nadal has a tendency to hold his hand up and slow a server down more often than any typical player would.

Phil
07-02-2006, 06:49 PM
In life, and in business....and in sports...sometimes you've got to pick your battles.

Or, if you're "Rafa", your butt...;)

vtmike
08-22-2008, 05:00 AM
Yeah its 2008 and rafa still picks his butt and takes more than 20 seconds between each point and especially on important points! (maybe still gets coached from the stands.....not sure abt tht)........but i guess it dosen't matter now tht he is number 1..... :confused:

Meanstreak
08-22-2008, 05:53 AM
How is the player supposed to know how many seconds have passed, are they supposed to count in their heads, whilst concentrating on serving. The umpire should call time after 15 seconds, so the players have something to go on.

When do the 20 seconds start, is it after they get the balls from the ball boys/girls, or is it as soon as the umpire announces the scores?

Eviscerator
08-22-2008, 07:28 AM
I would like to see universal enforcement (Shaughnessy took forever when she was playing match point against Dementieva), but it will never happen.

All it will take is for the networks to understand it makes the matches less desirable to watch on TV, and reduces advertising time slots, and it will be enforced.

Gorecki
08-22-2008, 07:35 AM
"Nadal feels like he's being picked on."

i wonder if he knows it's himself doing the picking... i kown OCD dont know what they are doing!

Love Game
08-22-2008, 08:03 AM
Apologies if someone has already posted this article before.

In fact, if it has been posted before I ask that the mods please delete this thread.

More sportsmanship questions for Nadal
Matthew Cronin / tennisreporters.net
June 30, 2006

WIMBLEDON, England -
. . .

I wasn't a member two years ago when the article you posted was written, but which one of us hasn't had a friend, family member or enemy who feels it's fair to have things we said or did two years ago resurrected as if they were still going on in the present?

The very title of this thread is misleading.
"Nadal feels" Present Tense
"he's being" Present Tense.

The article in the OP was written over 2 years *
* before rafa was wimby champion
* before rafa was olympic champion
* before rafa was Number One in the world

. . . so it's been long forgotten by all ...

Humorous touch to introduce a 2-year-old article with the words, "Apologies if someone has already posted this article before."
..... good one ....... :lol:


Vamos Rafa http://i35.tinypic.com/zvv1w7.gif

jmverdugo
08-22-2008, 08:11 AM
I wasn't a member two years ago when the article you posted was written, but which one of us hasn't had a friend, family member or enemy who feels it's fair to have things we said or did two years ago resurrected as if they were still going on in the present?

The very title of this thread is misleading.
"Nadal feels" Present Tense
"he's being" Present Tense.

The article in the OP was written over 2 years *
* before rafa was wimby champion
* before rafa was olympic champion
* before rafa was Number One in the world

. . . so it's been long forgotten by all ...

Humorous touch to introduce a 2-year-old article with the words, "Apologies if someone has already posted this article before."
..... good one ....... :lol:


Vamos Rafa http://i35.tinypic.com/zvv1w7.gif

The thread was started 2 years ago... :confused:

marpiw
08-22-2008, 08:24 AM
I find in this thread an anti-latin atmosphere....linked with some racism...
Besides I can observe that many Federers fans are trying to diminish Nadal's deeds because they are envious of what he did...and they cant admit that King Roger will retire necessarily in some near future after a reign of approximately four years...
The King is dead,long life to the King!!!!!!!!! this is the monarchic principle....
So the dead king is Roger and the new one is Rafa...





------------------------------------
Allez Alize!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tarsier
08-22-2008, 08:45 AM
The King is dead,long life to the King!!!!!!!!! this is the monarchic principle....
So the dead king is Roger and the new one is Rafa...

Isn't it what Djoko's family proclaimed in January? Except for the name of the new King...:)

Meanstreak
08-22-2008, 09:08 AM
Taking a bit longer to serve could also be of advantage to the receiver because they sometimes need time to recover from a long exhausting rally. I don't see what advantage it is to the server per se.

Nadal is not a cheat. It just happens that his routine takes a few seconds longer than most, even Boris Becker says he used to have problems with that.

I hope Nadal speeds up, his opponents will know about it, because they won't have time to get their breath back between rallies, which could be quite long when Nadal is serving.

Meanstreak
08-22-2008, 09:13 AM
Yeah its 2008 and rafa still picks his butt and takes more than 20 seconds between each point and especially on important points! (maybe still gets coached from the stands.....not sure abt tht)........but i guess it dosen't matter now tht he is number 1..... :confused:

I,ve just checked the ATP Rules, and it is actually 25 seconds from the previous point, so those of you who are timing Nadal on 20 seconds, are wrong.

Nadal has deposed Federer, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Purostaff
08-22-2008, 11:28 AM
There's a rule for a reason, no?

Mansewerz
08-22-2008, 11:45 AM
There's a rule for a reason, no?

good job dave man!


Umm, why do people always think we're getting at Nadal for Fed's sake?

tennis_nerd22
08-22-2008, 12:02 PM
Humorous touch to introduce a 2-year-old article with the words, "Apologies if someone has already posted this article before."
..... good one ....... :lol:

Vamos Rafa http://i35.tinypic.com/zvv1w7.gif

The thread was started 2 years ago... :confused:

yea seriously come on love game get your head in the GAME :)

drake
08-22-2008, 12:10 PM
The only way you can even find this thread that's over 2 1/2 years old is to do a keyword search "Nadal Pickbutt". I hope you found what you're looking for.

David L
08-22-2008, 12:13 PM
I,ve just checked the ATP Rules, and it is actually 25 seconds from the previous point, so those of you who are timing Nadal on 20 seconds, are wrong.

Nadal has deposed Federer, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
I think it is 25 seconds at ATP events and 20 seconds at the Slams.

Love Game
08-22-2008, 12:18 PM
What's a time violation, anyway?
I mean, what's the punishment for the violation?
I've never heard such a triviality discussed with such vehemence.

Rafa had a good point in toronto that if the umpires are going to enforce the time violation, then the only fair way is for ALL the umpires to enforce it on ALL the players, ALL the time.

I interpret that to mean that waiting until a crucial point in the game could so easily be open to corruption. And gambling in sports is the ugly, corrupting part of sports.

With all this unprecedented talk about 20- or 25-second violations, it's beginning to seem to me that the umpires, themselves, don't want to enforce it. At least, that's what the umpire in toronto pointed out--that they need to implement the nonhuman element, such as a shot-clock in basketball.

oranges
08-22-2008, 01:07 PM
What's a time violation, anyway?
I mean, what's the punishment for the violation?
I've never heard such a triviality discussed with such vehemence.

Rafa had a good point in toronto that if the umpires are going to enforce the time violation, then the only fair way is for ALL the umpires to enforce it on ALL the players, ALL the time.

I interpret that to mean that waiting until a crucial point in the game could so easily be open to corruption. And gambling in sports is the ugly, corrupting part of sports.

With all this unprecedented talk about 20- or 25-second violations, it's beginning to seem to me that the umpires, themselves, don't want to enforce it. At least, that's what the umpire in toronto pointed out--that they need to implement the nonhuman element, such as a shot-clock in basketball.

Basically, if they were consistent, they would not stop at the first time violation, which is merely a warning. The next one would be a point taken, then a game taken, etc. I'm all for enforcing it consistently as it would basically force the offenders to grow out of the habit. Just a warning a match will not.
Nadal complaining about being justly warned is ridiculous. For starters, he doesn't claim that he didn't exceed the allowed time, which is ample and most players serve well before that time, making the difference even more apparent. Second, be happy that they will not call it the second time and cost your a point, instead of whining about the time they decide to JUSTIFIABLY issue the warning. Finally, he's not the only player receiving warnings.
As for clock, umpires are perfectly capable of dong their job without it. If they want it for anything, it's to have "hard evidence" should it be challenged. I'll bet you anything at least 95 percent of people who have watched more than a hundred tennis matches will notice correctly when the time limit has been exceeded.

Oh, that episode with Andre sitting in the chair was hilarious.

Nadal_Freak
08-22-2008, 01:11 PM
Basically, if they were consistent, they would not stop at the first time violation, which is merely a warning. The next one would be a point taken, then a game taken, etc. I'm all for enforcing it consistently as it would basically force the offenders to grow out of the habit. Just a warning a match will not.
Nadal complaining about being justly warned is ridiculous. For starters, he doesn't claim that he didn't exceed the allowed time, which is ample and most players serve well before that time, making the difference even more apparent. Second, be happy that they will not call it the second time and cost your a point, instead of whining about the time they decide to JUSTIFIABLY issue the warning. Finally, he's not the only player receiving warnings.
As for clock, umpires are perfectly capable of dong their job without it. If they want it for anything, it's to have "hard evidence" should it be challenged. I'll bet you anything at least 95 percent of people who have watched more than a hundred tennis matches will notice correctly when the time limit has been exceeded.

Oh, that episode with Andre sitting in the chair was hilarious.
Nadal exceeding the time limit is like others exceeding the speed limit. It is ridiculous to isolate just a few for doing this while almost everyone breaks it. I guess you would want that as you want Nadal to lose at any way possible.

oranges
08-22-2008, 01:22 PM
Nadal exceeding the time limit is like others exceeding the speed limit. It is ridiculous to isolate just a few for doing this while almost everyone breaks it. I guess you would want that as you want Nadal to lose at any way possible.

You always read selectively? Which part of he's not the only player receiving warnings didn't you understand? Which part of it should be enforced consistently, which means all the time to all offenders, don't you understand? Which part of the world does not revolve around Nadal for the most part of the world escapes you? Almost everyone is doing it is an overstatement of the year, but it's enough of them that I just don't want to grow old waiting for any of them to serve. Get over it. Write to your idol to speed it up if you don't want people to mention his name as one of the offenders, instead of whining like a baby on a forum. Perhaps someone wrote to Joker for he certainly cut down on the ball bouncing that almost got me hypnotized before. Certainly a champ of Nadal's magnitude doesn't need to break the rules on crucial points to gain an edge, so stop doing it if you don't want a warning, which in and of itself is laughable if not followed up.

Mansewerz
08-22-2008, 01:23 PM
Nadal exceeding the time limit is like others exceeding the speed limit. It is ridiculous to isolate just a few for doing this while almost everyone breaks it. I guess you would want that as you want Nadal to lose at any way possible.

Not really, there aren't cops there everytime you exceed the speed limit. And we're not nagging on him for going 2 secs over, he routinely goes over by more than that.

In this case, there's always an umpire in professional matches. It's only the fair thing to do, but only if done consistently. If they do it once in a while or at break point, then that's bs. I'm all for it being used correctly though. There's constant times during Nadal's matches where i'm just waiting for him to frickin serve!

Mansewerz
08-22-2008, 01:24 PM
Nadal seems to be doing more of it lately. I just finished watching a 2006 match of his at Madrid, and he was faster, or so it seemed.

Nadal_Freak
08-22-2008, 01:25 PM
You always read selectively? Which part of he's not the only player receiving warnings didn't you understand? Which part of it should be enforced consistently, which means all the time to all offenders, don't you understand? Which part of the world does not revolve around Nadal for the most part of the world escapes you? Almost everyone is doing it is an overstatement of the year, but it's enough of them that I just don't want to grow old waiting for any of them to serve. Get over it. Write to your idol to speed it up if you don't want people to mention his name as one of the offenders, instead of whining like a baby on a forum. Perhaps someone wrote to Joker for he certainly cut down on the ball bouncing that almost got my hypnotized before. Certainly a champ of Nadal's magnitude doesn't need to break the rules on crucial points to gain an edge, so stop doing it if you don't want a warning, which in and of itself is laughable if not followed up.
Yeah it is just a coincidence that everything you say is about Nadal. I don't know what your goal is but you denying that seems rather ridiculous as I've read many of your posts here and MTF.

seffina
08-22-2008, 01:28 PM
I agree. He takes a lot longer than even last year it seems. I do think he needs to cut it down to under 30 seconds. It's okay to take longer on certain points, but he takes a long time between every point. I don't really mind and I love watching him no matter what, but I can see why others would mind and it might be better if he follow the rules.

Djokovic has improved drastically and I never even notice service breaks regarding him anymore. Bravo!

oranges
08-22-2008, 01:29 PM
Yeah it is just a coincidence that everything you say is about Nadal. I don't know what your goal is but you denying that seems rather ridiculous as I've read many of your posts here and MTF.

Everything I say is about Nadal, ROTFL. Man, you're delusional, you need help. Again, the world, unlike yours, doesn't revolve around Nadal.

Nadal_Freak
08-22-2008, 01:33 PM
Everything I say is about Nadal, ROTFL. Man, you're delusional, you need help. Again, the world, unlike yours, doesn't revolve around Nadal.
According to your posts it does. Any little minor fraction you are all over it. You need to stop hating.

Mansewerz
08-22-2008, 01:37 PM
According to your posts it does. Any little minor fraction you are all over it. You need to stop hating.

LOL NF, just for you, I found some posts by oranges that are not Nadal related enjoy!

LOL, someone told Verdasco he's being praised as a top 10 player on an internet board and it was a knee-jerk reaction to go back to his old ways. Win that title Cilic.

Why, is she obsessing about arranging bottles, adjusting socks, etc?

Of all the reasons in the world, these are your arguments why one of them would do better? :-? If it was primarily about money, they'd be in a boys band not playing pro tennis.

Hard to say, both have enough weapons for some impressive results in the future. Marin is a smart guy, just soaking up everything with each match both strategically and that elusive mental/confidence part that comes with experience (which is why I'm still crying over the lost opportunity for Wimbledon QF and potentially semi). Gulbis seems more a player of inspiration, with some brilliant flashes coming seemingly out of nowhere. I wouldn't be surprised if their careers mirror their results so far, with Gulbis potentially achieving major results sooner, but having more ups and downs and Cilic progressing more slowly but also more steadily. In any case, I expect both to be in top 15 in less than a year. We'll see how they do then, but a GS QF for Gublis and two R16 for Marin are promising for the future of both.

Hewitt just had a hip surgery, He's out till 2009.

This indicates it's high time for Nalby to follow in Marat's footsteps and give him a thorough beatdown :twisted:

It's not October yet, not his time of the year ;-)

I won't attack you, but I disagree about the variety/power argument :wink: Neither can be described as one-dimensional, but it's in fact Ernests who is more prone to pure power game and streaks of missing/hitting them. I'd rather he didn't go for those drop shots when going for variety either, LOL.
Marin didn't lack variety in the match against Clement, it was more about that QF/Semi weighing heavily on his shoulders and miss/hit streaks regardless whether it was a well-constructed point or just a blast for a winner. In many respects, it woudl have been better if he played someone he has not beaten already for that QF spot. Clement wisely decided to leave it to Marin to win or lose that match and just stay with him. Gulbis' loss to Daydenko in the Olympics is more of an example of power game gone wrong, but neither match is really representative of either player. Neither Čilić nor Gulbis is averse to occasional S/V and transition game and they do much better at the net than their lately much praised peer Del Potro. I expect both to grow into formidable all-court players.

oranges
08-22-2008, 01:37 PM
According to your posts it does. Any little minor fraction you are all over it. You need to stop hating.

You need to get to my ignore list for a long time, welcome.

Mansewerz
08-22-2008, 01:41 PM
LOL OP is tangerine, and now we have oranges

oranges
08-22-2008, 01:43 PM
LOL OP is tangerine, and now we have oranges

:) I would comment, but since it's not about Nadal, I won't bother :)

Nadal_Freak
08-22-2008, 01:45 PM
You need to get to my ignore list for a long time, welcome.
You earned it yourself. I'll go ahead and put you on my ignore list as well so we don't have to read each others posts. I actually agree with some of your posts but others are very anti-Nadal. Too bad you have to hate on someone really.

Love Game
08-22-2008, 02:13 PM
The only way you can even find this thread that's over 2 1/2 years old is to do a keyword search.

Exactly!

In order to put the article linked in the OP into
"This Day In Tennis History 2006"
you gotta search Mercedesbenz plays of the week 2006

I Ljubicic vs F Gonzalez June 15, 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5TEYmqNnlw

- Rafael Nadal vs. James Blake(30.03.2006) ... tennis rafael nadal james blake indian wells
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxkMA0RuWEY

Nadal vs. Fernando Verdasco(13.07.2006)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aFf-M9kKXM

August 31, 2006. ... Andy Roddick, JC Ferrero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCNeIA_pq0

25th of Oct 2006 ... BunditSunday tennis ATP James Blake VS Kristof Vliegen Madrid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70twWk46xQ4

potito starace roger federer masters series rome 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwE-6QgE9Lk

vtmike
08-22-2008, 08:03 PM
You always read selectively? Which part of he's not the only player receiving warnings didn't you understand? Which part of it should be enforced consistently, which means all the time to all offenders, don't you understand? Which part of the world does not revolve around Nadal for the most part of the world escapes you? Almost everyone is doing it is an overstatement of the year, but it's enough of them that I just don't want to grow old waiting for any of them to serve. Get over it. Write to your idol to speed it up if you don't want people to mention his name as one of the offenders, instead of whining like a baby on a forum. Perhaps someone wrote to Joker for he certainly cut down on the ball bouncing that almost got me hypnotized before. Certainly a champ of Nadal's magnitude doesn't need to break the rules on crucial points to gain an edge, so stop doing it if you don't want a warning, which in and of itself is laughable if not followed up.

Excellent post!

vtmike
08-22-2008, 08:09 PM
I find in this thread an anti-latin atmosphere....linked with some racism...
-----------------------------------
Allez Alize!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R u kidding me?? U will eat ur words when he does comeback and win a slam.....but byways i don't see anyone spewing racism remarks on the 2-1/2 year old "Will Nadal Ever Be Number 1" thread??

Fed was, and will be the greatest player...so you stop trolling and get over it!!

edmondsm
08-22-2008, 11:35 PM
You earned it yourself. I'll go ahead and put you on my ignore list as well so we don't have to read each others posts. I actually agree with some of your posts but others are very anti-Nadal. Too bad you have to hate on someone really.

You are becoming just like Morrissey. Everything you do or say is in defense of Nadal. You're going to argue yourself insane. Just accept that your favorite player is just not that likeable to alot of people. It doesn't have to be your personal mission to maintain Nadal's reputation on a tennis forum. I had to learn the same thing about Roddick. I am a big fan of the guy, but let's face it, there isn't much that is redeeming about him, so alot of people hate him. I'm not going to spend my time arguing with these people about Roddick. You just need to accept that people are going to have their opinions because you are quickly becoming a pariah on this site.

TheTruth
08-22-2008, 11:53 PM
You are becoming just like Morrissey. Everything you do or say is in defense of Nadal. You're going to argue yourself insane. Just accept that your favorite player is just not that likeable to alot of people. It doesn't have to be your personal mission to maintain Nadal's reputation on a tennis forum. I had to learn the same thing about Roddick. I am a big fan of the guy, but let's face it, there isn't much that is redeeming about him, so alot of people hate him. I'm not going to spend my time arguing with these people about Roddick. You just need to accept that people are going to have their opinions because you are quickly becoming a pariah on this site.

Because Nadal_Freak speaks up about the insidious comments people make around here, he is the pariah? And people can't see the silliness that many participate in on this board? I mean, come on, who put this 2 and 1/2 year old thread on here to bring about dissension? And you blame the person who saw through it? Figures!

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 12:00 AM
Apologies if someone has already posted this article before.

In fact, if it has been posted before I ask that the mods please delete this thread.

More sportsmanship questions for Nadal
Matthew Cronin / tennisreporters.net
June 30, 2006

WIMBLEDON, England - About an hour after his heroic 6-7 (4), 3-6, 7-6 (2), 7-5, 6-4 win Thursday in the second round at Wimbledon over the inspired American journeyman Robert Kendrick, Rafael Nadal's wide smile had disappeared.

The Spaniard is angry because he feels that he has a target on his back, placed there by a few fellow players, officials and administrators.

He's not sure who is entirely responsible for why chair umpires are all over him for taking too much time between points, but he's stressed out about it and feel it's completely unfair.

"In February and March, when I wasn't doing that well, no one was saying anything about it," said the Spaniard, who is 39-4 this year. But since I started playing well, everything's changed and I haven't changed anything. It's like it's become a problem with my personality and all of a sudden I'm causing all these problems."

You tell 'em, baby. That's the truth!

Nadal fought very hard to subdue Kendrick, who served and volleyed like he never had before and was just two points from the match in the third set. On a surface that he is unfamiliar with (one that doesn't allow him to extend points), the 20-year-old Spaniard was often left struggling.

Sportsmanship questions persist

He was very upset that he received a warning in the third set for taking too much time and was irked that the umpire overruled two of his balls that landed close to the line in the final game.

Later, he threw out a mini-conspiracy theory and named a few names, saying the campaign against him could have started two weeks before the French Open after the Rome final, when Roger Federer accused Nadal's uncle, Tony, of coaching him from the stands.

There's your culprit!

He said the conspiracy grew worse in the Roland Garros semifinals, when the chair umpire told Nadal's agent, Carlos Costa, that if he didn't stop yelling toward Nadal (the Spaniard said Costa was only yelling "Vamos, Rafa!") he would give Nadal a coaching warning.

"I heard Ljubicic's coach yelling to him the whole match, and the chair umpire didn't say anything to him," Nadal said.

There's the unfairness.

"I know I have my faults, Nadal said. "But other players do things they could be talked to about. The chair umpires need to have more of their own personalities and make their own decisions, rather than listening to what someone is telling them about me. They need to watch me and see what is really happening."

Ain't it the truth!

But now that the world No. 2 has beaten top ranked Roger Federer six out of seven times and looks like a surefire No.1 in the future, he's become a slightly more serious man with a lot of weight of his shoulders.

Here's the root of the problem.

No athlete wants to be called unsportsmanlike, and that's what Nadal believes is happening to him.

"It's not very nice for me," he said. "It's like I'm someone with a problem."

Some people are really hurting that Federer has been dethroned. Sad!

vtmike
08-23-2008, 04:23 AM
Some people are really hurting that Federer has been dethroned. Sad!

yeah when some other player says something negative, its considered as making excuses and being not humble etc....but its ok for nadal to do and say anything.....ur obsession with toni and rafael nadal has forced u to have double standards....its just not possible for u to see nadal's fault!

vtmike
08-23-2008, 04:34 AM
Nadal seems to be doing more of it lately. I just finished watching a 2006 match of his at Madrid, and he was faster, or so it seemed.

the problem is he does it selectively....esp on big points he really slows it down, so its pretty obvious he is doing it on purpose!

veroniquem
08-23-2008, 04:51 AM
You are becoming just like Morrissey. Everything you do or say is in defense of Nadal. You're going to argue yourself insane. Just accept that your favorite player is just not that likeable to alot of people. It doesn't have to be your personal mission to maintain Nadal's reputation on a tennis forum. I had to learn the same thing about Roddick. I am a big fan of the guy, but let's face it, there isn't much that is redeeming about him, so alot of people hate him. I'm not going to spend my time arguing with these people about Roddick. You just need to accept that people are going to have their opinions because you are quickly becoming a pariah on this site.
And everything Nadal haters do or say is to criticize Nadal. It's because of people like them that Nadal's fans have to defend him, this time thing has been blown way out of proportion here and a pretext for Nadal haters to vent their hostility. And please don't start comparing Nadal to Roddick. Roddick has often underperformed and had a lot of disappointing losses in past years. Nadal is playing so well that he's now #1 in the world. Sorry but Nadal is a much better player than Roddick, that is not an opinion, it's a fact, and yes Nadal is not perfect but as a tennis player he's 1000 times more accomplished than practically any player on tour at the moment. (whether we're talking about drive, focus, discipline, resilience, fairplay or technique)

CanadianChic
08-23-2008, 04:55 AM
And everything Nadal haters do or say is to criticize Nadal. It's because of people like them that Nadal's fans have to defend him,

Why even bother? The number one motivation knocking Nadal is to get a reaction and feed off it. Some of the statements are about as intelligent as declaring that the sky is green. It doesn't matter that science refutes this, common sense refutes this and you debate endlessly on this, some people will vehemently claim this to be fact because they are enjoying the fact that they are irritating others. Like a rash. :|

veroniquem
08-23-2008, 05:01 AM
Why even bother? The number one motivation knocking Nadal is to get a reaction and feed off it. Some of the statements are about as intelligent as declaring that the sky is green. It doesn't matter that science refutes this, common sense refutes this and you debate endlessly on this, some people will vehemently claim this to be fact because they are enjoying the fact that they are irritating others. Like a rash. :|
You have a point here, but when you like (or admire) somebody, it can be hard to let other people trash that person without reacting. I do agree that sometimes you just have to let it go...

CanadianChic
08-23-2008, 05:04 AM
You have a point here, but when you like (or admire) somebody, it can be hard to let other people trash that person without reacting. I do agree that sometimes you just have to let it go...

I look at it this way: I like a player for my own personal reasons so it doesn't matter whether I am in a league of millions of their only fan. I am not a band wagoner and my opinion won't be swayed regardless of what some hater thinks. I also look at the motivations behind the bashing and tend to feel sorry for those individuals. They are also usually the ones who can only cheer for one player at a time and will declare endlessly to anyone who will listen that 'their' player is the 'best'. I choose to simply not listen. ;)

veroniquem
08-23-2008, 05:21 AM
On the other hand in tennis, one's enthusiasm for a player is tied to the way they play (IMO). For all the fooling around about looks and charisma, the talent in their tennis is always first and foremost. I can't imagine getting excited about a player losing every other match or playing average tennis.

CanadianChic
08-23-2008, 05:26 AM
I hear what you're saying. JC Ferrero has been one of my favourites for years regardless of his rankings (or his looks for that matter). I also can't root for someone that I hold in low esteem (IOW, if I think they are an arse I don't care how they play). I agree that most fans feel very enthusiastic about characteristics of their player's game (serve, volley, footwork, etc.) but there has to be a little realism thrown in. To use the Roddick example...there are many admiral aspects of his game and I don't dispute that he deserves to be ranked as he is. To claim that he is better than Fed or Nadal is just blind devotion though - I mean really...the serve can only carry you so far...the trophies speak for themselves. IMO.

zagor
08-23-2008, 05:53 AM
They are also usually the ones who can only cheer for one player at a time and will declare endlessly to anyone who will listen that 'their' player is the 'best'. I choose to simply not listen. ;)

Yeah,however the thing is that Nadal fans fall into this group as well.Lately, I've seen them overreact at the slightest criticizm of Nadal and everyone who dares to say that Nadal isn't perfect or that they prefer 90's grass is deemed a ******* or a Nadal hater or similar nonsense(I've even seen them call posters that dislike Federer as much as they do Nadal *******s as well,go figure).

The time violation thing is simple,there is a time rule and Nadal breaks it,that's a pure and simple fact no matter how you twist it.While I usually don't like when people break rules I personally as an observer don't mind if Nadal takes 5 or 10 or whatever seconds longer to serve(and I normally watch a lot of Nadal matches even though I'm not a Nadal fan as I think he has a unique playing style and is an amazing shotmaker,one of the best I've ever seen),it doesn't bother me one bit(I usually barely notice the difference)but I know better than to call every single person that has a problem with Nadal taking longer to serve a Nadal hater or a ****** or moron or whatever similar insults Nadal fans come up with.IMO Nadal is a great guy and a great player(one of the best I've seen since I started watching tennis)but he is not without his faults.

Now another problem is the ridiculous double standards Nadal fans employ.According to them it's perfectly fine when they call Fed arrogant,classless,jerk,girly man,gay,make Fed should retire threads,insult Mirka,mock the fact that Fed has been ill with mono(that alone speaks volumes about their class),whine about draws every time(and I mean every SINGLE time),make laughable conspiracy teories etc. All that stuff is supposedly fine because according to them they're just innocently giving their opinion but when someone dares to criticize Nadal for breaking time rule(and believe me when I say that those same Nadal fans would be all over Fed if he was the one taking longer time to serve than allowed by the rules,they would be singing completely different tune then)he's a ******,a Nadal hater and similar,that's double standard at its best.

oranges
08-23-2008, 06:01 AM
And everything Nadal haters do or say is to criticize Nadal. It's because of people like them that Nadal's fans have to defend him, this time thing has been blown way out of proportion here and a pretext for Nadal haters to vent their hostility. And please don't start comparing Nadal to Roddick. Roddick has often underperformed and had a lot of disappointing losses in past years. Nadal is playing so well that he's now #1 in the world. Sorry but Nadal is a much better player than Roddick, that is not an opinion, it's a fact, and yes Nadal is not perfect but as a tennis player he's 1000 times more accomplished than practically any player on tour at the moment. (whether we're talking about drive, focus, discipline, resilience, fairplay or technique)

I'm so tired of this Nadal haters BS, is that what you say to yourself anytime something not to your liking happens in life in general, it's all haters, nothing to do with you or in this case you God. God forbid addressing the issue at hand, whether he indeed bores people to death with his lengthy serve routines and unnerves his opponents by breaking the serve rhythm. It's irrelevant because JesusRaf has the right to do whatever he pleases. I don't have arguments to dispute the infidels daring enough not to indulge only in glorifying the Son of God, so I'll resort to nonsense that has nothing to do with it, while at the same time doing my sacred duty to make up for the lack of glorification.

Rule of thumb, put anyone who posts only about one player on ignore list, you'll save yourself time, as well as the frustration of marveling at human capacity to rationalize their own faults by projecting onto others, while not risking missing a single sentence of even the slightest relevance to a tennis fan. Check, done.

Gorecki
08-23-2008, 06:27 AM
... but as a tennis player he's 1000 times more accomplished than practically any player on tour at the moment. (whether we're talking about drive, focus, discipline, resilience, fairplay or technique)

i will give you the focus and resilience but TECHNIQUE? ROFLPAMP...

marpiw
08-23-2008, 06:42 AM
WE'LL SEE WHAT COMES IN THE TIMES TO COME....RAFA I IS THE KING AND I GUESS HE WILL BE FOR MUCH TIME...DONT FORGET HE IS ALMOST A TEENAGER... SO ''LONG LIFE TO THE KING!!!!!!!!!!!! R u kidding me?? U will eat ur words when he does comeback and win a slam.....but byways i don't see anyone spewing racism remarks on the 2-1/2 year old "Will Nadal Ever Be Number 1" thread??

Fed was, and will be the greatest player...so you stop trolling and get over it!!




-------------------------
Allez Alize!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Azzurri
08-23-2008, 08:38 AM
glad I am not a big fan of any pro tennis player today. I don't care wether Fed wins or loses too much (he is my favorite to watch). tennis is pretty boring for the most part. there are some good matches sprinkled here and there, but the days of great tennis are gone thanks to the governing bodies that changed the surfaces and balls too much. not to mention strings.

Voltron
08-23-2008, 08:48 AM
Some people are really hurting that Federer has been dethroned. Sad!

Looks like someone needs to learn how to read, that article is two years old. Seriously, before you try to troll a thread, at least read a few posts first, I know, that'll be hard for someone like you, but just try it, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it eventually.

Nadal_Freak
08-23-2008, 10:03 AM
Now another problem is the ridiculous double standards Nadal fans employ.According to them it's perfectly fine when they call Fed arrogant,classless,jerk,girly man,gay,make Fed should retire threads,insult Mirka,mock the fact that Fed has been ill with mono(that alone speaks volumes about their class),whine about draws every time(and I mean every SINGLE time),make laughable conspiracy teories etc. All that stuff is supposedly fine because according to them they're just innocently giving their opinion but when someone dares to criticize Nadal for breaking time rule(and believe me when I say that those same Nadal fans would be all over Fed if he was the one taking longer time to serve than allowed by the rules,they would be singing completely different tune then)he's a ******,a Nadal hater and similar,that's double standard at its best.
It's a stupid time rule that sometimes gets unforced. They should add 10 more seconds or start the clock when the fans quiet down and make a shotclock. Djokovic and some of the others go over the time limit yet Nadal is the one getting picked on.

RanchDressing
08-23-2008, 10:16 AM
And people get in a ****y about Djoko being an excussive brat.

And here Nadal acting like a little child.

He has no idea what is going on does he.

Nadal_Freak
08-23-2008, 10:20 AM
And people get in a ****y about Djoko being an excussive brat.

And here Nadal acting like a little child.

He has no idea what is going on does he.
Not during the match. He isn't counting how many seconds he does for each serve. He goes with what feels natural. It's pathetic how you and many others are looking for ways to put Nadal down.

scineram
08-23-2008, 10:39 AM
Why not we all get together and pick on Murray or ARod or The Đoker?

seffina
08-23-2008, 10:49 AM
Not during the match. He isn't counting how many seconds he does for each serve. He goes with what feels natural. It's pathetic how you and many others are looking for ways to put Nadal down.Maybe they are, but not everyone is. It does bother some players - even to a certain degree Fed. I think that he is taking a little longer now than he used to. I have started counting his bounces now and he bounces the ball A LOT. He didn't used to do that before. On the other hand, Djokovic has improved his time between points drastically.

The simple fact is, it is against the rule. EVERYONE should follow it. So if they all go over, they should be punished. If the rule is so selectively enforced, it should be changed. Until it is, the ATP players should all follow it. Nadal breaks the rule, thus, he is guilty. It doesn't excuse his rule breaking because others are breaking the rule as well. I think he should be warned the first time he goes over, not selectively. And every time thereafter.

You can love Nadal as a player and still not love that he takes so long. Not liking that doesn't make you any less of a fan of his tennis. As I said before, it doesn't bother me that much, but if it did, I would still love to watch him play.

Now I understand that it feels natural to Nadal, but there are things that you feel are natural that you have to eliminate from your game to follow the rules. He is a professional tennis player, he is thus obligated to follow the rules laid out by his organization.

It isn't just fans that discuss this, announcers have discussed and timed him as well. Even announcers that are fans of his. The more popular a player he comes, the more things about his game are scrutinized. People who dislike Nadal might bring this up as a way to present their dislike, but that does not mean what they're saying is incorrect.

This is my long winded way of saying that Nadal should try and not break this rule.

Mansewerz
08-23-2008, 10:51 AM
Some people are really hurting that Federer has been dethroned. Sad!

Because Nadal_Freak speaks up about the insidious comments people make around here, he is the pariah? And people can't see the silliness that many participate in on this board? I mean, come on, who put this 2 and 1/2 year old thread on here to bring about dissension? And you blame the person who saw through it? Figures!

Wow, how much more biased can you get?


LOL at Nadal fans feeling they need to defend him. priceless.

NamRanger
08-23-2008, 11:44 AM
Maybe they are, but not everyone is. It does bother some players - even to a certain degree Fed. I think that he is taking a little longer now than he used to. I have started counting his bounces now and he bounces the ball A LOT. He didn't used to do that before. On the other hand, Djokovic has improved his time between points drastically.

The simple fact is, it is against the rule. EVERYONE should follow it. So if they all go over, they should be punished. If the rule is so selectively enforced, it should be changed. Until it is, the ATP players should all follow it. Nadal breaks the rule, thus, he is guilty. It doesn't excuse his rule breaking because others are breaking the rule as well. I think he should be warned the first time he goes over, not selectively. And every time thereafter.

You can love Nadal as a player and still not love that he takes so long. Not liking that doesn't make you any less of a fan of his tennis. As I said before, it doesn't bother me that much, but if it did, I would still love to watch him play.

Now I understand that it feels natural to Nadal, but there are things that you feel are natural that you have to eliminate from your game to follow the rules. He is a professional tennis player, he is thus obligated to follow the rules laid out by his organization.

It isn't just fans that discuss this, announcers have discussed and timed him as well. Even announcers that are fans of his. The more popular a player he comes, the more things about his game are scrutinized. People who dislike Nadal might bring this up as a way to present their dislike, but that does not mean what they're saying is incorrect.

This is my long winded way of saying that Nadal should try and not break this rule.



According to Nadal_Freak, if I feel it is natural to break my opponent's legs with my racquet, I should do it. It is the natural feeling after all.

RanchDressing
08-23-2008, 12:30 PM
Not during the match. He isn't counting how many seconds he does for each serve. He goes with what feels natural. It's pathetic how you and many others are looking for ways to put Nadal down.

Hes a total tool dude. how could you ever think hes cool...

I dont even want to go into his ignorance. He is a fool. Hes obviously got a very safe/consistant game. He is the modern version of Hewit, and 2 tons of stupidity added to boot.

Nadal_Freak
08-23-2008, 12:35 PM
Hes a total tool dude. how could you ever think hes cool...

I dont even want to go into his ignorance. He is a fool. Hes obviously got a very safe/consistant game. He is the modern version of Hewit, and 2 tons of stupidity added to boot.
What has he done to you to know this? Just some bad habits and he's a tool? You don't see how respected he is and how humble he is? Just because he is not like everyone else you hate the guy? It sounds like you are the one that is a tool if that is all someone has to do to be hated by you.

RanchDressing
08-23-2008, 12:37 PM
Why not we all get together and pick on Murray or ARod or The Đoker?

Roddic has a garbage backhand. Hes not that bad of a guy tho. knows when hes been beat.
Murray is the british pride. I dont think there is much anything wrong with him, i dont like him but hes not bad at the game nor a bad char.
Djokovic is a very good player. Needs to capitalize on his strengths, and needs to accept losses and carry energy/conf through them. People dont like him because he talks the talk.... and he can bring the heat aswell.

All together those three players have less annoyances/ignorance than nadal on a good day.
If you dont think he is a moron, remember he decided to play tennis with his non dominant hand. Do you understand how *&^% stupid that is?
Genius is typically the simplest solution. Switching hands completly is not genius its flat out stupid. Who knows how good he would be playing righty (i think he would be quite a bit better on hardcourt)

RanchDressing
08-23-2008, 12:41 PM
What has he done to you to know this? Just some bad habits and he's a tool? You don't see how respected he is and how humble he is? Just because he is not like everyone else you hate the guy? It sounds like you are the one that is a tool if that is all someone has to do to be hated by you.

Proof that Nadal fans are very stupid.

Go ahead try and take the attention off "the bull".

julianoz
08-23-2008, 01:35 PM
I am a federer and nadal fan..you fan boy losers who love one player and rip the other, please get a freaking life.

Love Game
08-23-2008, 02:44 PM
Hes a total tool dude. how could you ever think hes cool...

I dont even want to go into his ignorance. He is a fool. Hes obviously got a very safe/consistant game. He is the modern version of Hewit, and 2 tons of stupidity added to boot.


twinkle ... twinkle ... little star
whatever you say rafa is ... you are .....


http://i34.tinypic.com/v47abn.gif

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 10:54 PM
poor little... so he's paranoiac now ?

he only gets what he deserves...

He's gotten what he deserved. 2008 French, Wimbledon, Olympic Gold, and the #1 ranking. How fitting!

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 10:56 PM
Two can play that game: how can you be sure it isn't just a matter of concentration? Are YOU a medium? Can YOU tell what a player is thinking in his mind?


Being a medium again, malakas?

You're not sure of that either, are you? It's your interpretation of things.
As long as there is doubt, it's exaggerated to use the word cheater and it's exaggerated to say that he deliberately does these things.

And PLEASE, he does not constantly break the rules so people...stop blowing it out of proportion as if he's doing some major rule breaking here.
Are you guys so insecure about Nadal that you need to pick him apart like that?

Great post!

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 10:57 PM
I think the Federer fans are getting really nervous! They want Nadal out as soon as possible! If Nadal played Roger in the final and beat him (which he probably would), they would absolutely melt down because it proves even more so that Nadal is the best tennis player in the milky way galaxy.

You are as good as your famous counterpart. Calling it out, and sparing people in the long run.

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 11:08 PM
rataplan, anyone who loves tennis does not wait 25-30 seconds to get on with it, unless its a strategy. no one loves to play this sport and will take that long, plain and simple. he uses his self up through a match playing defense and knowingly cheats (takes to much time) to start the next point. when other players are voicing this to officials he, has to make the necessary steps to not do it (along with anyone else). if it happens more than 3 times in a match, its a problem, and it does!!!! no one needs to read minds, to know what hes thinking. its clear by lack of haste to towel off (body language and facial expressions) no need to read minds! i think he is as bad as todd martin = very bad = gamesmanship!

He also doesn't signal the officials with his eyes for the rain delay to begin. (Wimbledon, 2008)

Or, ask that machines be turned off because it's hurting his game.

Or challenge clearly out balls so stall the opponent's momentum.

Or get unnecessary pedicures when no injury exists.

Or ask his friends to beat his rivals.

Or call other players one-dimensional, a joke, or say they've shown no improvement.

In light of these things, five seconds here or there is miniscule. I suppose it depends on your perspective, but these types of things are a lot worse in my opinion from a world #1!

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 11:10 PM
BS

1. Agassi has always been a player to rush his opponents and no need to bring in the sentimental stuff to change that fact.
2. Go and watch (or rewatch) that match. Nadal did not overstep the limit - he did not get a time warning. It's not because he doesn't sprint to the baseline to get ready for his next serve and it's not because he takes a bit more time on his own serve that he does anything wrong.


*violin music* but it's Agassi's last Wimbledon *dramatic music* :rolleyes:
You guys are really getting desperate here with finding new excuses to blow this out of proportion.

All too true!

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 11:12 PM
Yeah its 2008 and rafa still picks his butt and takes more than 20 seconds between each point and especially on important points! (maybe still gets coached from the stands.....not sure abt tht)........but i guess it dosen't matter now tht he is number 1..... :confused:

Vamos, Rafa is not coaching. That was simply Federer saying that. Yeah, the classy one!

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 11:19 PM
yeah when some other player says something negative, its considered as making excuses and being not humble etc....but its ok for nadal to do and say anything.....ur obsession with toni and rafael nadal has forced u to have double standards....its just not possible for u to see nadal's fault!

You should talk. Go back and read your Federer love letters. You, sir, seem to be the obsessed one

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 11:27 PM
Looks like someone needs to learn how to read, that article is two years old. Seriously, before you try to troll a thread, at least read a few posts first, I know, that'll be hard for someone like you, but just try it, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it eventually.

The article could be ten years old, but it was bumped up and recent posts added. How is that trolling? Or is that your job on the forum to go around with your can of repellant calling people trolls? That's all I ever see you do, therefore I don't take you seriously anyway. Move along. As long as this is a public forum, that you are not in charge of I will post!

Love Game
08-23-2008, 11:27 PM
I am a federer and nadal fan..you fan boy losers who love one player and rip the other, please get a freaking life.

I havent really seen fans ripping Roger,
but I've sure seen members here ripping others
over .... and over ... and over ....

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 11:31 PM
Wow, how much more biased can you get?


LOL at Nadal fans feeling they need to defend him. priceless.

You are always so snide.

TheTruth
08-23-2008, 11:35 PM
Wow, how much more biased can you get?


LOL at Nadal fans feeling they need to defend him. priceless.

Read the posts further down this page. Then come back and repeat your comments. That's the problem with people like you. You try to pick on certain people while having a blind eye to those who are in agreement with you. So, I throw the question back to you. How biased can you be? I've never once seen you say anything to a Fed Fan no matter how ridiculous they were. You have no credibility at all!

vtmike
08-25-2008, 05:03 AM
Vamos, Rafa is not coaching. That was simply Federer saying that. Yeah, the classy one!

So r u trying to say that fed was lying? u trust toni nadal more than fed?? and u claim not to be obsessed with rafa and toni nadal :???: yeah right!
I get the feeling tht ur a teenage girl or a guy who has issues!

rjkardo
08-25-2008, 05:17 AM
Why even bother? The number one motivation knocking Nadal is to get a reaction and feed off it. Some of the statements are about as intelligent as declaring that the sky is green. It doesn't matter that science refutes this, common sense refutes this and you debate endlessly on this, some people will vehemently claim this to be fact because they are enjoying the fact that they are irritating others. Like a rash. :|

Its called trolling.
Troll A posts something and Troll B has to respond...
Sometimes its fun watching it go back and forth.
But mostly...not.

Rod

Nadal_Freak
08-25-2008, 09:47 AM
So r u trying to say that fed was lying? u trust toni nadal more than fed?? and u claim not to be obsessed with rafa and toni nadal :???: yeah right!
I get the feeling tht ur a teenage girl or a guy who has issues!
Fed also lied about a line call in Rome by pointing to the wrong mark in that epic 5 set match. Yes I do think he lied.

killer
08-25-2008, 01:28 PM
UGH. I hope that Rafa genuinely cheats some time soon, so that there's something to legitimate all of this nonsense.