PDA

View Full Version : "Roddicks return is not in the top 100" - mcEnroe


MasterTS
07-02-2006, 08:39 AM
Johnny mAc talking about Roddick's game since 2002:

- Roddicks serve is about the same
- Roddicks backhand is mediocre
- Roddick's forehand is worse
- Roddick's return of serve is NOT in the top 100

Tell us something we don't already know! Without Roddicks serve he would be playing club tennis lol at the next challenger in Illinious! LoL

RiosTheGenius
07-02-2006, 08:41 AM
yeah, i just heard that.... Murray was really toying with him it seems.... he didn't even looked worried, great hands..

RiosTheGenius
07-02-2006, 08:42 AM
Murray does kinda remind me of McEnroe a bit.... he has a lot of McEnroeish thingies

ACE of Hearts
07-02-2006, 08:49 AM
This says it all about Roddick now.http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7650/713350111ya.jpg

donnyz89
07-02-2006, 12:25 PM
This says it all about Roddick now.http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7650/713350111ya.jpg

lmao well put... roddick is going down slowly. i thought he would pull one out at wimbledon, at least make it deep but guess not. US open is his last chance to prove to us that he is still a good player... but watching him play Murray... his forehand is highly overrated, serve is still good but there is only so much you can do, once they are returned, his chance of winning the pt is no good by any means. we'll see... another early US Open exit will be it.

Simon Cowell
07-02-2006, 12:28 PM
Seems like Roddick needs a complete overhaul or a return to his old roots. His current strategy is not cutting it. A great new coach would be a big help for him.

ch4ng
07-02-2006, 12:29 PM
This says it all about Roddick now.http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7650/713350111ya.jpg

LOL maybe he was watching a little bit too much of the world cup

emcee
07-02-2006, 02:47 PM
Someone needs to have the balls to tell him that he just can't volley at all. It's not going to be his brother apparently.

BreakPoint
07-02-2006, 07:46 PM
Johnny mAc talking about Roddick's game since 2002:

- Roddicks serve is about the same
- Roddicks backhand is mediocre
- Roddick's forehand is worse
- Roddick's return of serve is NOT in the top 100

Tell us something we don't already know! Without Roddicks serve he would be playing club tennis lol at the next challenger in Illinious! LoL

I actually think his serve is WORSE than before. He used to ace people like crazy all the time. He doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore.

I agree with the rest, though.

ACE of Hearts
07-02-2006, 07:57 PM
The only thing i agreed with Roddick was after the match, when he said the grass courts are slower this year.If anyone disagrees, all u have to do is look at the names that have maded it far.

BeautyVenus
07-02-2006, 08:08 PM
I am not a Roddick fan I actually think John McEnroe's comment about Roddick's return is kind of mean spirited and cruel. Come on John not fair. I know John and the USA media are ****ed at Andy Roddick right now but saying things like that is really uncalled for. I think that kind of comment will upset Andy big time.

Mr. Hokey
07-02-2006, 08:48 PM
well, hopefully it will do more than upset andy and convince him that something's wrong.

quest01
07-02-2006, 08:52 PM
Dont worry about Roddick. Roddick will end up pulling a Pete Sampras circa 2002 where he plays a subpar season, reaches no finals and then ends up winning the US Open.

Exile
07-02-2006, 08:57 PM
If johnny mac is dissing you after being so adamant that you were the next big thing, you know something is wrong. That is simply put. It is also old news that his game is way below sub par, people have been denying it since last year but finally people have the fortitude to say it out loud.

MasterTS
07-02-2006, 09:50 PM
I actually think his serve is WORSE than before. He used to ace people like crazy all the time. He doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore.

I agree with the rest, though.

He was acing people before because no one knew how to return a 135+ MPH bomb. After federer and other players easily neutralize rods serve by just blocking it back, the rest of the field has caught on... Now playing roddick is simply about timing the ball to block back, and then working the point. Since the point is virtually recent, roddicks weak backhand, poor volleys, and good forehand simply is not good enough to keep him in the top 10!

Freedom
07-02-2006, 09:53 PM
I'm surprised he hung around the Top 10 as long as he has. I wouldn't really be surprised to see him out of the Top 50.

BreakPoint
07-02-2006, 10:03 PM
He was acing people before because no one knew how to return a 135+ MPH bomb. After federer and other players easily neutralize rods serve by just blocking it back, the rest of the field has caught on... Now playing roddick is simply about timing the ball to block back, and then working the point. Since the point is virtually recent, roddicks weak backhand, poor volleys, and good forehand simply is not good enough to keep him in the top 10!

Yes, but if the ball is placed out of your reach, it doesn't really matter how you try and return Roddick's serve. It seems like he's just not hitting his serves out of the returner's reach as much as he used to. It also appears to me that his serves have slowed down. I'd bet if you looked at the stats, it'll show that his average serve speed has probably dropped over the past 3 years. I'm not sure where to find these stats, though. But when was the last time you saw Roddick hit a 150mph serve? A long time, right?

superman1
07-02-2006, 10:07 PM
The last one I remember was in the 2005 US Open against Scoville Jenkins...I think.

He was bombing them in Queen's. The serve is still one of the best of all time, the return game is total garbage, and he can't back up the serve as well as he used to. Big serve, gets blocked back, big inside-out forehand, down the line backhand winner by his opponent.

arosen
07-02-2006, 10:08 PM
Roddick was struggling trying to push the ball trough the court, it used to go through like a bullet, and now its all spin and no penetration. He either whips it too much without putting his body into it or something....On top of this problem, Murray was reading his serve like a book. Roddick should go back to what he did so well, figure how to hit a heavy ball again and stop coming to the net as if he can volley. He can't. Someone tell him to step in on his returns, it's ridiculous how many people everywhere are saying the same thing and he still keeps hitting returns from a mile away.

Exile
07-02-2006, 10:19 PM
Like I've been saying for months, his serve is NOT hard to read at all, even when he was serving 150+ bombs.

Pisolino227
07-02-2006, 10:27 PM
Roddick is a one dimensional player.... Imho he is sort of the poster child of everything that is wrong with American tennis. He's a big Suv....tries to run you over, all power, no style, no touch.......Federer is like a Ferrari: beautiful styling, precision handling, panache....well you get the comparison. Don't feel too sorry for Andy he's made his millions.

snoflewis
07-02-2006, 10:35 PM
http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7650/713350111ya.jpg

"NO!! i can't be like serena!!!"

travlerajm
07-02-2006, 10:41 PM
Roddick was struggling trying to push the ball trough the court, it used to go through like a bullet, and now its all spin and no penetration. He either whips it too much without putting his body into it or something....On top of this problem, Murray was reading his serve like a book. Roddick should go back to what he did so well, figure how to hit a heavy ball again and stop coming to the net as if he can volley. He can't. Someone tell him to step in on his returns, it's ridiculous how many people everywhere are saying the same thing and he still keeps hitting returns from a mile away.

Stepping in and returning from near the baseline only works if you have a good return. He has a crappy bh and an uppercut forehand that only works if the incoming ball has very little pace. So he's stuck returning 5-10 feet behind the baseline.

The Pusher Terminator
07-03-2006, 12:03 AM
Seems like Roddick needs a complete overhaul or a return to his old roots. His current strategy is not cutting it. A great new coach would be a big help for him.

or a great old one: BRAD GILBERT...(who has got to be smiling right about now).

BreakPoint
07-03-2006, 12:22 AM
or a great old one: BRAD GILBERT...(who has got to be smiling right about now).

Yeah, but it looks like BG is going to be coaching the guy that just kicked his butt, twice! ;) LOL.

kabob
07-03-2006, 02:27 AM
I'm surprised he hung around the Top 10 as long as he has. I wouldn't really be surprised to see him out of the Top 50.
I would. He doesn't suck that bad that he'd fall out of the top 50. He's not so bad that he'd even fall out of the top 20. But when the new rankings come out, he just may fall out of the top 10.

Morpheus
07-03-2006, 03:41 AM
He was acing people before because no one knew how to return a 135+ MPH bomb. After federer and other players easily neutralize rods serve by just blocking it back, the rest of the field has caught on... !

You could be right, but there was a time when every serve could've been a record--lots of anticipation and tons of aces. I don't see that anymore. I wonder if his pace has dropped off?

I do notice that his second serve doesn't seem to have the same bite. I remember being totally amazed at the hop he would get. Now it looks pretty average.

Cfidave
07-03-2006, 04:12 AM
I would. He doesn't suck that bad that he'd fall out of the top 50. He's not so bad that he'd even fall out of the top 20. But when the new rankings come out, he just may fall out of the top 10.

No maybe about it. He had 700 pts to defend from last years wimbeldon. He will definately fall out of the top 10. Probably land around 12 or 13.

superman1
07-03-2006, 04:16 AM
I don't see why it's so hard to learn how to hit the ball slightly differently for the return. Why does he need that big wind up? Can't he just hit the damn ball straight on like everyone else?

tonysk83
07-03-2006, 08:27 AM
Tell us something we don't already know! Without Roddicks serve he would be playing club tennis lol at the next challenger in Illinious! LoL

Ummm yeah, you spelled Illinois wrong...very wrong...

iamke55
07-03-2006, 08:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2b8mXXvwQs&search=roddick

How does this guy compare? After seeing this, I look at his Wimbledon matches this year and say "that's Roddick?"

donnyz89
07-05-2006, 03:08 PM
he use to be a great front runner, now hes not. he doesnt start as fast and hard as before, hes not putting pressure on his opponents like he use to with his serve. he doesnt do well playing out long points. he is at disadvantage when hes not at his opponents throat and bombing them with his huge serves/forehands and that leads to lack of confidence and more confidence for his opponents. he needs a lot of mental help too other than his horrific volleys.

Marat Safinator
07-05-2006, 03:23 PM
lmao well put... roddick is going down slowly. i thought he would pull one out at wimbledon, at least make it deep but guess not. US open is his last chance to prove to us that he is still a good player... but watching him play Murray... his forehand is highly overrated, serve is still good but there is only so much you can do, once they are returned, his chance of winning the pt is no good by any means. we'll see... another early US Open exit will be it.

he iss till a good player, everybody has bad days. hes not a great player, he has lots his eccentricity (spelling dunno) that he had in 2003, hes not the same player but he can get it back, hes stil lvery young

vicnan
07-05-2006, 06:46 PM
I am not a Roddick fan I actually think John McEnroe's comment about Roddick's return is kind of mean spirited and cruel. Come on John not fair. I know John and the USA media are ****ed at Andy Roddick right now but saying things like that is really uncalled for. I think that kind of comment will upset Andy big time.

"mean spirited and cruel"?

C'mon.. Andy should be more upset with his play than comments like these. Never mind US tennis. Andy better worry about his own standards for now.

tennis334
07-05-2006, 07:02 PM
I actually think his serve is WORSE than before. He used to ace people like crazy all the time. He doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore.

I agree with the rest, though.

I agree, his serve is not near its 03 levels. Hes dropped probably 10-20 mphs off it.

framebreaker
07-05-2006, 08:17 PM
Johnny mAc talking about Roddick's game since 2002:

- Roddicks serve is about the same
- Roddicks backhand is mediocre
- Roddick's forehand is worse
- Roddick's return of serve is NOT in the top 100

Tell us something we don't already know! Without Roddicks serve he would be playing club tennis lol at the next challenger in Illinious! LoL
i agree with john m. but i would never hire him as a coach. he doesn't know too much about this game.. talks lots of crap. i was really surprised

phat
07-05-2006, 09:11 PM
Another article on Roddick:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_wertheim/07/05/mb/index.html

See the picture on the article, checkout his eyes on the volley..... No wonder miss so much at the net..

alienhamster
07-05-2006, 09:49 PM
Sigh. I love the guy, but he's deserved to lose the big matches he's lost this year. He either gets outplayed by someone on fire, or simply plays stupid against mediocre opponents that he should be dominating.

I seriously think he needs a hypnotist first and foremost--or just someone to make him believe in his shots again. The technique should follow the confidence.

He's gonna have some big runs again. I believe that. Just needs the confidence and consistency.

BreakPoint
07-05-2006, 09:57 PM
See the picture on the article, checkout his eyes on the volley..... No wonder miss so much at the net..

Have you seen these pics from an older thread?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=879984&postcount=16

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=880740&postcount=22

Andres
07-05-2006, 10:16 PM
The Blake quote is fantastic!!!

Can you confirm this: Friend of a friend, etc., etc. went to high school with James Blake. Blake was so good he would give up points so that the other guy wouldn't feel too bad. One day, Blake was running late for prom and still hadn't picked up his tux. Before a match he apologized to the other guy for what he was about to do. Blake won 6-0 6-0 in 20 minutes.
-- Duane Wright, Washington D.C.

Here's the official response from Blake himself:
"Haha, that's pretty funny. It's a little bit of truth and a little bit of myth. I did used to give some guys points just because I was screwing around. And then when I played the kid on the day I had to go to prom, I beat him in 25 minutes. 11 minutes first set and 14 for the second. It was 0 and 0, but I didn't apologize before the match. I apologized after the match. And I apologized to the coach too, and then got in my car and was out of there in a few minutes."

jukka1970
07-05-2006, 10:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2b8mXXvwQs&search=roddick

How does this guy compare? After seeing this, I look at his Wimbledon matches this year and say "that's Roddick?"

That's kind of tough to answer given the opponent is Federer. I would say the big difference is that Federer has finally found his form, so that's one difference. The second is because of this change in Federer, he gets Roddick serve back, which Roddick didn't have to use to worry about. And finally Federer in his change can now take the net and I think Roddick has a tougher time passing him because of this.

So I'm not sure if it's so much Roddick has changed in this match to now as Federer has changed, with the exception that Roddicks confidence has completely sunk, and that would throw anyones game off.

Midlife crisis
07-05-2006, 11:47 PM
Have you seen these pics from an older thread?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=879984&postcount=16

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=880740&postcount=22

I thought from all the scientific evidence that was brought forth in that other thread that you would have understood that it is not important to look at the contact point, but it seems you've either forgotten it or choose to ignore it. Oh well.

BreakPoint
07-05-2006, 11:56 PM
I thought from all the scientific evidence that was brought forth in that other thread that you would have understood that it is not important to look at the contact point, but it seems you've either forgotten it or choose to ignore it. Oh well.

But I still believe that all else being equal, looking is better than not looking, that is, keeping your head still and your eyes focused on the contact point is better than moving your head around and looking at the babe in the 3rd row. I think Federer's results are indisputable. I'm convinced that if Federer stared into the stands everytime he made contact with the ball, he would not be as good as he is now.

brucie
07-06-2006, 01:53 AM
This says it all about Roddick now.http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7650/713350111ya.jpg

In the net too much! :p ;)

Midlife crisis
07-06-2006, 10:44 AM
But I still believe that all else being equal, looking is better than not looking, that is, keeping your head still and your eyes focused on the contact point is better than moving your head around and looking at the babe in the 3rd row. I think Federer's results are indisputable. I'm convinced that if Federer stared into the stands everytime he made contact with the ball, he would not be as good as he is now.

But how about Laver's results:

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t235/T235797A.jpg

Jimmy Connors:

http://www.bermansports.com/images/500-jimmyconnors01.jpg

Johnny Mac:

http://ssakai.web.infoseek.co.jp/auto_mcenroe.jpg

Again, it's not important to look at the contact point, because the human eye is incapable of following a ball moving at that angular speed, and because humans are incapable of reacting to a change in ball trajectory within the last ten feet of a moderately fast ball's flight anyway, as evidenced by the fact that no one, including Federer can cleanly volley a ball that clips the netcord and bounces over their racquet.

Since your eyes have a readjustment period whenever you change focus, the better strategy is to look a little further away where you still have the possibility of altering your swing, rather than to stare at the contact point and lose some tracking ability of the ball over the last portion of its flight. Again, maybe this is why Federer shanks as many shots as he did, and why even the old timers, as evidenced by the photos I linked to above, did not try to watch the ball all the way to the racquet strings but still managed to hit with a racquet much smaller than Federer uses.

mowcopian
07-06-2006, 11:33 AM
hopefully roddick can get jimmy connors as a coach which should benefit him drastically.

Babblelot
07-06-2006, 11:38 AM
Accurate, but not newsworthy. Back when Roddick was ranked #1 or 2 in early 2004, only Karlovic had a worse return of serve rating of the top (whatever Karlovic was ranked back then).

BreakPoint
07-06-2006, 11:40 AM
But how about Laver's results:

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t235/T235797A.jpg

Jimmy Connors:

http://www.bermansports.com/images/500-jimmyconnors01.jpg

Johnny Mac:

http://ssakai.web.infoseek.co.jp/auto_mcenroe.jpg

Again, it's not important to look at the contact point, because the human eye is incapable of following a ball moving at that angular speed, and because humans are incapable of reacting to a change in ball trajectory within the last ten feet of a moderately fast ball's flight anyway, as evidenced by the fact that no one, including Federer can cleanly volley a ball that clips the netcord and bounces over their racquet.

Since your eyes have a readjustment period whenever you change focus, the better strategy is to look a little further away where you still have the possibility of altering your swing, rather than to stare at the contact point and lose some tracking ability of the ball over the last portion of its flight. Again, maybe this is why Federer shanks as many shots as he did, and why even the old timers, as evidenced by the photos I linked to above, did not try to watch the ball all the way to the racquet strings but still managed to hit with a racquet much smaller than Federer uses.

Don't forget that with Laver, Connors, and McEnroe, the ball was coming at them much slower than the ball is coming at Federer today. I think it's easier to guess where the ball is going to be at contact when the balll is travelling much slower.

BTW, that pic of Connors looks like he is indeed looking at the ball. And in the pic of McEnroe, look at where the ball is making contact with his racquet. That shot probably went into the net. ;) LOL

BTW2, I still think Federer is better than any of these other guys anyway. One reason is that he hits the sweetspot more often than most other players do. Yes, he mishits occasionally, but so does everyone else. And he uses a smaller racquet than anyone else and has a bigger swing with more racquet head speed than most other players do. It amazes me that he doesn't mishit every other shot.

BTW3, you're never going to convince me that not looking at the ball is better or the same as looking at the ball. That's why no blind person has ever won a Grand Slam. ;) LOL

mowcopian
07-06-2006, 11:43 AM
roddick needs to get his act together and quickly if he wants to be a top 10 tennis player.

Midlife crisis
07-06-2006, 12:28 PM
Don't forget that with Laver, Connors, and McEnroe, the ball was coming at them much slower than the ball is coming at Federer today. I think it's easier to guess where the ball is going to be at contact when the balll is travelling much slower.

No, it's easier to KNOW where the ball is going to be if it is going faster. It is less influenced by gusts of wind and surface irregularities, because its intrinsic momentum is greater.

BTW, that pic of Connors looks like he is indeed looking at the ball. And in the pic of McEnroe, look at where the ball is making contact with his racquet. That shot probably went into the net. ;) LOL

But how did he get to be such a good player if he doesn't look at the ball all the time? Isn't it an ingrained habit? Does he have to consciously think to look at the ball to look at the ball? He learned with a wood racquet, which like you say forces people to look at the ball to hit it cleanly.

BTW2, I still think Federer is better than any of these other guys anyway. One reason is that he hits the sweetspot more often than most other players do. Yes, he mishits occasionally, but so does everyone else. And he uses a smaller racquet than anyone else and has a bigger swing with more racquet head speed than most other players do. It amazes me that he doesn't mishit every other shot.

I think you are very mistaken when you say that he mishits LESS than other players.

[/QUOTE]BTW3, you're never going to convince me that not looking at the ball is better or the same as looking at the ball. That's why no blind person has ever won a Grand Slam. ;) LOL[/QUOTE]

Taking an argument to an extreme like this in an attempt to discredit it is used by people when they have no logical leg to stand on. I never suggested not looking at the ball. I, and the scientific evidence says, that it is impossible to follow the ball all the way to the racquet unless it is very slow, that the human eye is incapable of refocusing often enough and fast enough to do so, and that even if it were possible (which it is not), human reactions aren't fast enough to accommodate an incorrect guess once the ball is within about eight to ten feet, so why try to follow the ball all the way to the strings anyway? The best strategy is to follow the ball to somewhere between 5-10 feet and leave it at that, because by that time, everything is in motion and nothing can be done to "fix" an incorrect guess.

chrisdaniel
07-06-2006, 12:51 PM
Its silly to think that Roddick is out...and will never contend with anyone in the top 10...its seems like we all know the problem here...I dont think its gonna be long before he steps up and is playing awsome tennis again..either that or he will step out of the game....Roddick doesnt strike me as the kind of guy who will journey through the rankings at a slow pace,getting good results every now and then...He will work hard to get back,or bow out...and I dont believe in his early 20s thats gonna happen,,,,so there is one choice...get back on track....I would say Roddick is going to have a great summer season!!! just watch!!....

BreakPoint
07-06-2006, 02:01 PM
No, it's easier to KNOW where the ball is going to be if it is going faster. It is less influenced by gusts of wind and surface irregularities, because its intrinsic momentum is greater.
So are you saying that if you played a 2.0 player that's just lobbing the ball over the net that you have to concentrate more intensively on the moving ball than if you played Agassi?


But how did he get to be such a good player if he doesn't look at the ball all the time? Isn't it an ingrained habit? Does he have to consciously think to look at the ball to look at the ball? He learned with a wood racquet, which like you say forces people to look at the ball to hit it cleanly.
Perhaps if these guys focused on tha ball as much as Federer does, they would've been as good as Federer is?

I think you are very mistaken when you say that he mishits LESS than other players.
I never said that Federer mishits LESS than other players. I said that "he ocassionally mishits, but so does everyone else." I also said that he hits the sweetspot more often, as shown by all the pics. To me, a mishit is a shank or hitting on or near the frame. Other players may not hit the sweetspot as often but those balls are not mishits but "off-center" shots that still make it over the net because they are usually using bigger racquets (e.g., Roddick, etc.). The difference is those "off-center" shots do not have as much control as when Federer hits the sweetspot.

Midlife crisis
07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
So are you saying that if you played a 2.0 player that's just lobbing the ball over the net that you have to concentrate more intensively on the moving ball than if you played Agassi?

If it is a gusty day, then yes I would definitely rather hit against Agassi's shots than a pusher's shot. That is the premise and context of this portion of the discussion - that on a gusty or windy day, a faster hit ball is less affected by the wind.

jman
07-06-2006, 04:57 PM
Roddick needs to stop changing coaches every fortnight, and stick to one for a while so he can get use to them. I personally think he should go back to the coach who took him to the 2001 US Open Semi's, the one where he lost to Hewitt in a close 5 setter.
It seemed back then, that this guy (don't remember his name), influenced Roddick's game greatly. I don't really remember, but i think after that 2001 SF, Roddick got rid of him, and switched to Brad Gilbert. Once agin i'm not sure, but I hope Roddick can rekendle the flame that was once in him and return to the top of the tennis world as he was meant to be.

BreakPoint
07-06-2006, 06:38 PM
Roddick needs to stop changing coaches every fortnight, and stick to one for a while so he can get use to them. I personally think he should go back to the coach who took him to the 2001 US Open Semi's, the one where he lost to Hewitt in a close 5 setter.
It seemed back then, that this guy (don't remember his name), influenced Roddick's game greatly. I don't really remember, but i think after that 2001 SF, Roddick got rid of him, and switched to Brad Gilbert. Once agin i'm not sure, but I hope Roddick can rekendle the flame that was once in him and return to the top of the tennis world as he was meant to be.

That was the quarters, not the semis, when Roddick lost to Hewitt at the 2001 US Open. Roddick's coach back then was the Frenchman, Tarik Benebilis (I know the spelling's wrong).