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Rhino
07-03-2006, 12:35 AM
My french is pretty poor, but that's what it looks like to me:

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2006/05/29/um/m-01204492.htm

ED_4.6HSE
07-03-2006, 12:39 AM
He bulked majorly from 16-19yo, wouldnt surprise me if he was using something

Must be someone who can translate on here?

Rhino
07-03-2006, 12:46 AM
also, I don't know if this one is relevant:
http://mundo-tenis.blogspot.com/2006/05/doping-positivo-de-nadal.html

vive le beau jeu !
07-03-2006, 12:55 AM
My french is pretty poor, but that's what it looks like to me:

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2006/05/29/um/m-01204492.htm

umm... you mean your spanish is pretty poor ? ;)

anyway all this is from may...

Rhino
07-03-2006, 01:01 AM
umm... you mean your spanish is pretty poor ? ;)

anyway all this is from may...

Yeah sorry I just saw Journal du Dimanche, and thought it was French.
Just did a search and it's mentioned in another forum too. Here is the actual article in French:

DOPAGE Le tennisman et cinq joueurs du club madrilène seraient visés


Les noms du tennisman Rafael Nadal (ATP 2) et de cinq footballeurs du Real Madrid seraient notamment également sur la liste transmise à l'Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) par les autorités judiciaires espagnoles

Dans une brève parue dans le Journal du Dimanche, le président de l'UCI, Pat McQuaid affirme que les noms de nombreux joueurs de football et de tennis, de nageurs et d'athlètes figureraient sur la fameuse liste. Le journal dominical cite également des sources espagnoles.

La Fédération internationale (FIFA) va demander aux autorités espagnoles enquêtant sur le réseau de dopage sanguin démantelé dans le cyclisme si des joueurs de football sont vraiment concernés par leur enquête, a-t-elle annoncé.

«Le département légal de la FIFA va s'en occuper cette semaine», a déclaré Jiri Dvorak, le directeur de la commission médicale de la FIFA en remarquant toutefois qu'il «n'y avait aucune urgence»: «Si des joueurs de football étaient concernés, les enquêteurs espagnols auraient utilisé la plate-forme qu'est la Coupe du monde pour en informer la FIFA», a assuré Dvorak.

Le patron de la commission médicale de la FIFA a répété que les 228 contrôles antidopage réalisés jusqu'ici dans le tournoi se sont avérés négatifs: «Durant le tournoi, pendant les stages et les matches de préparation, en moyenne 16 des 23 joueurs par sélection ont été testés», s'est-il félicité.

VamosRafa
07-03-2006, 01:05 AM
I got the "rumor" part of the message, but I've asked the French and Spanish-speaking folks on our site to look at this and see what it means, if anything.

All well and good to post things in other languages, but getting translations in advance wouldn't hurt. ;-)

Rhino
07-03-2006, 01:14 AM
All well and good to post things in other languages, but getting translations in advance wouldn't hurt. ;-)
Ok heres the translation of the French (used Google translator):

"Names of the tennis player Rafael Nadal (ATP 2) and of five footballers of Real Madrid would be in particular also on the list transmitted to the Union Cyclist International (UCI) by the legal authorities Spanish In short appeared in the Newspaper of Sunday, it UCI, Pat McQuaid chairs affirms that the names of many players of football and tennis, swimmers and athletes would be reproduced on the famous list. The Sunday newspaper also quotes Spanish sources. The international Federation (FIFA) will require of Spanish authorities inquiring into the network of blood doping dismantled in cycling if players of football are really concerned with their investigation, At it announced. “The legal department of the FIFA will occupy itself some this week”, declared Jiri Dvorak, the director of medical commission of the FIFA by noticing however that there “was no urgency”: “If players of football were concerned, the Spanish investigators would have used the platform which is the World cup to inform the FIFA of it”, Dvorak ensured. The owner of the medical commission of the FIFA repeated that the 228 controls antidopage carried out up to now in the tournament proved to be negative: “During the tournament, during the training courses and the matches of preparation, in average 16 of the 23 players by selection were tested”, it was pleased."

VamosRafa
07-03-2006, 01:17 AM
So that means Rafa is under investigation by the ATP/ITF for doping, right?

mdhubert
07-03-2006, 01:19 AM
Do you think Roger would get the Slam if Nadal was found guilty ?:confused:

Phil
07-03-2006, 01:19 AM
All the article seems to say is that Nadal and other athletes will be tested for blood doping by Spanish investigators. Is that any big deal? He's been tested before. Being "named" doesn't mean (at this point) that he's DONE anything yet.

VamosRafa
07-03-2006, 01:21 AM
Thanks, Phil, for the translation info.

TennisProPaul
07-03-2006, 01:26 AM
i sold some good barry bonds quality steroids to nadal. its untraceable. but if he did not follow my directions then ne might be in deep poop

only time will tell

Rhino
07-03-2006, 01:28 AM
All the article seems to say is that Nadal and other athletes will be tested for blood doping by Spanish investigators. Is that any big deal? He's been tested before. Being "named" doesn't mean (at this point) that he's DONE anything yet.
OK, yeah that doesn't sound bad. If he hasn't actually been tested positive then journal du dimanche shouldn't be using his name.
However the cyclists that were on the same list have now been banned from the tour de france, right?

VamosRafa
07-03-2006, 02:13 AM
If there's some substance to these allegations, you have to think that even the British press will catch onto it and publish something in English. Especially during Wimbledon.

Ztalin
07-03-2006, 02:34 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Rafa was on gear; but I doubt that he is.

SCARLETRUBIES
07-03-2006, 03:23 AM
he may be Spanish but I doubt he would be stupid enough to do that.
Uncle Toni wouldn,t let him.
Any way somebody please say whether its being said Nadal as tested and found positive for banned substances or whether they want to test him.

superman1
07-03-2006, 04:18 AM
I doubt Nadal is on anything. Just looking at him move at the rate he does for 5 sets straight you'd think he'd have to be on something, but Uncle Toni knows better.

But if he DID test positive, that would be the biggest shocker in tennis history.

VamosRafa
07-03-2006, 07:43 AM
I posted this is the other doping thread. It was posted on vamosrafael.com, as translated by nou.amic.

Dopaje
El CSD niega que haya futbolistas o tenistas implicados en la ´Operación Puerto´

http://213.0.95.34/secciones/noticia.jsp?pNumEjemplar=1577&pIdSeccion=1005&pIdNoticia=159170&rand=1151933186359


The translation:

Doping

The CSD denies that there are footballers or tennis players implicated in the 'Operación Puerto'

The Spanish Consejo Superior de Deportes (CSD) has categorically denied that there are footballers or tennis players, Spanish or foreign, implicated in the 'Operación Puerto', an investigation into doping in Spanish sport carried out by the Guardia Civil at the end of last May, and request that there be "maximum respect" and "rigor" in all declarations made about the topic.

AGENCIAS

In the face of news published in some sectors of the media quoting alleged declarations by the Irish president of the International Cycling Union (UCI), Pat McQuaid, about there being footballers and tennis players implicated in the 'Operación Puerto', the CSD has denied that this is the case.

In a like manner, the Consejo has stated, in a press release, that it has informed the FIFA authorities, in Berlin for the World Cup, about this matter.

On the other hand, the CSD described as "absolutely lamentable" the news published by a French daily newspaper that, "without any basis whatsoever", speculated about a certain number of footballers being implicated and even cited the tennis player Rafael Nadal

"This information has absolutely no foundation, as no footballer or tennis player is affected by the investigation that the Guardia Civil has carried out."

According to the French newspaper 'Le Jornal du Dimanche', Rafael Nadal and five Real Madrid players were all implicated in 'Operación Puerto', although the paper did point out that none of these names had been officially made known.

Their news was based on declarations made by the president of the UCI, Pat McQuaid, who had said that on the list together with cyclists, there were also tennis players and footballers.

dannyjjang
07-03-2006, 10:09 AM
If he did do doping....and caught
does Federer get his French and all other matches he lost to nadal back?
That would really suck...

TXKiteboarder
07-03-2006, 10:21 AM
i always have wondered about his since the barry thing got started. just think of the great tennis players we had including today's players, and only Nadal got a body of a College Linebacker.

I dont know if he does/did anything, but it makes you wonder. Only other player who has muscles on him is Genepri.

In baseball, we all wonder if many of the players who look bulked up were on the juice, so I could also say the same for tennis players. Nadal's physique makes him a BIG TARGET for this kinds of talk.

Bassus
07-03-2006, 10:59 AM
If he did do doping....and caught
does Federer get his French and all other matches he lost to nadal back?
That would really suck...


I doubt it, and I doubt that Federer would want the French under those circumstances.

And I doubt that there is really anything to this story, at least as it relates to Nadal. Some people are just physically advanced, w/o artificial/illegal help.

malakas
07-03-2006, 01:26 PM
From official press conference after his 4th round win against Labadze

Q. There was coverage in a French newspaper yesterday according that your name is on a list of Dr. Francis who is suspected of doing blood doping for sportsmen.

RAFAEL NADAL: I gonna speak in Spanish and he gonna translate.

INTERPRETER: I don't want to speak about untrue statements, nonsense. I've never taken anything in my life, and I never will. I'm well enough educated in the sporting world and out of sporting world to not cheat. People who write lies about other people are bad people. There's nothing more to say about this. It's lies and it's just people who write lies are bad people. He's a coward. He should sign what he writes at the bottom. My manager is speaking to my lawyers

dh003i
07-03-2006, 01:30 PM
well, I don't think Nadal is using drug -- he's tested quite frequently. Besides, he doesn't look big enough for that.

sureshs
07-03-2006, 01:37 PM
If there's some substance to these allegations, you have to think that even the British press will catch onto it and publish something in English. Especially during Wimbledon.

If he is under investigation in particular, L'Equippe should be all over it by now.

What is the criterion for this probe? Why are ALL cyclists and tennis players not included? In other words, how did this short list come into being? Somebody looked at Nadal's biceps and said we should investigate him? There must be some grounds of suspicion which is not clear from this article.

Edit: I see it is linked to a doctor. Reminds me of that guy in the US who was supplying to everybody.

sureshs
07-03-2006, 01:38 PM
i always have wondered about his since the barry thing got started. just think of the great tennis players we had including today's players, and only Nadal got a body of a College Linebacker.


Only his left biceps though. Everywhere else he is skinny.

Craig Sheppard
07-03-2006, 01:51 PM
You guys that think Nadal is on something might be right, but you're thinking about the wrong drug. Most cyclists are blood dopers, not 'roid ragers. If anything, I'd bet that's what certain tennis pros are on EPO rather than roids. EPO and other blood doping agents let your body deliver more oxygen to the muscles and recover faster. That's more useful to a tennis pro than huge 'roided up muscles. I'm not sure what the ATP policy is on EPO and blood doping, so I can't say how often the get tested or by who. But if anything were to come of this Spanish investigation, it's my bet Nadal or others like him will be caught for doping rather than steroids. None of the cyclists were acused of steroid use, it's all doping.

FedererUberAlles
07-03-2006, 02:02 PM
You guys that think Nadal is on something might be right, but you're thinking about the wrong drug. Most cyclists are blood dopers, not 'roid ragers. If anything, I'd bet that's what certain tennis pros are on EPO rather than roids. EPO and other blood doping agents let your body deliver more oxygen to the muscles and recover faster. That's more useful to a tennis pro than huge 'roided up muscles. I'm not sure what the ATP policy is on EPO and blood doping, so I can't say how often the get tested or by who. But if anything were to come of this Spanish investigation, it's my bet Nadal or others like him will be caught for doping rather than steroids. None of the cyclists were acused of steroid use, it's all doping.

Can the ATP take their blood, or are their rights for players like in other leagues?

Craig Sheppard
07-03-2006, 02:40 PM
Can the ATP take their blood, or are their rights for players like in other leagues?

Not sure... but EPO use can be detected through urine samples. EPO is made from animal sources, which has a different signature in your urine than the EPO your body naturally produces. So that's the basis for the drug test, detecting those animal-based by-products. There is a new form of EPO that is in trials or testing that is derived from human sources, and so is undetectable by the current test. Kind of makes you go hmmmmm when you think about who might be able to get their hands on it.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
07-03-2006, 02:44 PM
told you guys Rafa was doping:rolleyes:

TXKiteboarder
07-03-2006, 03:22 PM
true, doping and popin' roids is totally different. whichever it might be: i just hope none of the top 50 ATP players are involved.

Volly master
07-03-2006, 03:31 PM
A common behavoir of a person who takes Heroin or even Ciggs, they would start to touch them selves all over their body without control.

Now relating to Steriods and Doping, maybe Nadal picks his *** all the time because thats where he always sticks the needle? like the heroine effect or the ciggorette effect, he would keep doing it because its a habbit hes been doing forever.
Like a Smoker always banging the pack of ciggorettes over because he craves them, Nadal would be picking his butt becuase thats where he always does his business, not in his arms or anywhere like that.

tabientennis
07-03-2006, 03:43 PM
I saw this on the net.. i dunno is it has been posted yet.. so yah here..

Today, the CSD (Consejo Superior de Deportes), the most important sports gubernamental organization of Spain has given a written declaration stating that: due to the recent appearances on some foreign press journals of accusations stating they were some footballers and tennis players involved in the 'Operation Puerto' we, the CSD, have to say: no tennis player, nor Real Madrid player, nor any football player is involved in this operation, wich only deals with cyclism.

tonyjh63
07-03-2006, 05:18 PM
i always have wondered about his since the barry thing got started. just think of the great tennis players we had including today's players, and only Nadal got a body of a College Linebacker.

You're joking, right? Do you have any idea what a college linebacker looks like? Rafa's body might be somewhat comparable to a receiver/punt returner, but that's about it. Even Terrell Owens is bigger/stronger looking than Rafa, and T.O. would get KILLED trying to play linebacker!

Matthew
07-03-2006, 06:42 PM
Isn't he just being tested because he is a top ranked Spanish athlete? I don't see other evidence or justification for testing other than this.

andfor
07-03-2006, 07:10 PM
Isn't he just being tested because he is a top ranked Spanish athlete? I don't see other evidence or justification for testing other than this.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure the ATP has 2 methods of testing. 1 is random the second is all tournament finalist get tested.

If getting tested is because you get to the finals all the time that's your own fault. Don't do dope or if you do don't win and you won't have anything to worry about but your long term health implications.:D

The ATP testing sounds fair to me. At one time I read the ATP testing rules. I am not about to do it again. Anyone know the ATP drug testing policy better? Please join in.

textbook strokes
07-03-2006, 08:26 PM
Aparently the french media can't deal with the idea of Nadal winning the FO again and again in future years.
I have read all the articles in spanish and french, and believe me, ... there is nothing in them rather than malicious specutalions.
It is very unfair for him, being accused without any subtantial evidence.
I guess being a winner makes you a target .

MasterTS
07-04-2006, 12:55 AM
Nadal already denying it according to ESPN.

janipyt05
07-04-2006, 01:49 AM
If there's some substance to these allegations, you have to think that even the British press will catch onto it and publish something in English. Especially during Wimbledon.

i can say living in london there is nothing in the papers about rafa and doping sorry to say.

pound cat
07-04-2006, 03:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From official press conference after his 4th round win against Labadze

Q. There was coverage in a French newspaper yesterday according that your name is on a list of Dr. Francis who is suspected of doing blood doping for sportsmen.

RAFAEL NADAL: I gonna speak in Spanish and he gonna translate.

INTERPRETER: I don't want to speak about untrue statements, nonsense. I've never taken anything in my life, and I never will. I'm well enough educated in the sporting world and out of sporting world to not cheat. People who write lies about other people are bad people. There's nothing more to say about this. It's lies and it's just people who write lies are bad people. He's a coward. He should sign what he writes at the bottom. My manager is speaking to my lawyers


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm glad they asked Rafa this question in the press conference. He has now had a chance to publicly deny this accusation. Rafa is right, in the simplest therms, they're BAD PEOPLE.

Rafa is one of the good people, and as we know good people ofen have an uphill climb.

Welcome to the real world Rafa

VAMOS

tennisdarren
07-04-2006, 03:17 AM
Yeah sorry I just saw Journal du Dimanche, and thought it was French.
Just did a search and it's mentioned in another forum too. Here is the actual article in French:

DOPAGE Le tennisman et cinq joueurs du club madrilène seraient visés


Les noms du tennisman Rafael Nadal (ATP 2) et de cinq footballeurs du Real Madrid seraient notamment également sur la liste transmise à l'Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) par les autorités judiciaires espagnoles

Dans une brève parue dans le Journal du Dimanche, le président de l'UCI, Pat McQuaid affirme que les noms de nombreux joueurs de football et de tennis, de nageurs et d'athlètes figureraient sur la fameuse liste. Le journal dominical cite également des sources espagnoles.

La Fédération internationale (FIFA) va demander aux autorités espagnoles enquêtant sur le réseau de dopage sanguin démantelé dans le cyclisme si des joueurs de football sont vraiment concernés par leur enquête, a-t-elle annoncé.

«Le département légal de la FIFA va s'en occuper cette semaine», a déclaré Jiri Dvorak, le directeur de la commission médicale de la FIFA en remarquant toutefois qu'il «n'y avait aucune urgence»: «Si des joueurs de football étaient concernés, les enquêteurs espagnols auraient utilisé la plate-forme qu'est la Coupe du monde pour en informer la FIFA», a assuré Dvorak.

Le patron de la commission médicale de la FIFA a répété que les 228 contrôles antidopage réalisés jusqu'ici dans le tournoi se sont avérés négatifs: «Durant le tournoi, pendant les stages et les matches de préparation, en moyenne 16 des 23 joueurs par sélection ont été testés», s'est-il félicité.

here is a translation

DOPING The tennis player and five players of the club madrilène would be aimed

The names of the tennis player Rafael Nadal (ATP 2) and of five footballers of the Real Madrid would be notably equally on the transmitted list to the union Cyclist International (UCI) by Spanish judicial authorities

In a brief one appeared in the Newspaper on sunday, the president of the uci, Pat McQuaid asserts that the names many soccer players and of tennis, of swimmers and of athletes would figure on the fine list. The sunday newspaper quotes equally Spanish sources.

The international Federation (FIFA) will ask Spanish authorities investigating on the sanguine doping network dismantled in the cyclisme if soccer players really are concerned by investigates for them, did she announce.

"The legal department of the FIFA goes itself some to occupy this week", declared Jiri Dvorak, the director of the medical commission of the FIFA while noticing nevertheless that it "there had not no urgency" : "If soccer players were concerned, the Spanish investigators would have used the platform that is the World Cup for some to inform the FIFA", assured Dvorak.

The employer of the medical commission of the FIFA repeated that the 228 checks antidopage realized so far in tournament proved themselves negative: "During tournament, during trainings and the preparation matches, in average 16 of the 23 players by selection were tested", itself is it congratulated.

ED_4.6HSE
07-04-2006, 04:05 AM
i can say living in london there is nothing in the papers about rafa and doping sorry to say.
the times-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28910-2254994,00.html

telegraph-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2006/07/04/utnada04.xml

Grimjack
07-04-2006, 04:14 AM
Rafa is one of the good people, and as we know good people ofen have an uphill climb.

Welcome to the real world Rafa

VAMOS

The "good people" don't cheat.

We already know that Nadal is perfectly willing to cheat on time between points, and on in-match coaching. We also know that his ability to exert during matches and recover from them quickly and without physical letdown is way beyond anybody else's.

I can understand the tendency towards denial by his fans (and certainly I can understand it from him), but his poor character and the physical circumstances make it a virtual lock that he's engaged in something unethical.

Welcome to the real world, indeed.

zampano
07-04-2006, 04:22 AM
The "good people" don't cheat.

We already know that Nadal is perfectly willing to cheat on time between points, and on in-match coaching. We also know that his ability to exert during matches and recover from them quickly and without physical letdown is way beyond anybody else's.

I can understand the tendency towards denial by his fans (and certainly I can understand it from him), but his poor character and the physical circumstances make it a virtual lock that he's engaged in something unethical.

Welcome to the real world, indeed.


poor character? you've got to be kidding.

Rhino
07-04-2006, 04:24 AM
the times-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28910-2254994,00.html

telegraph-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2006/07/04/utnada04.xml
Yeah the broadsheets covered it and today even The Sun is on it:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,3-2006300597,00.html

Verbal_Kint
07-04-2006, 05:03 AM
The "good people" don't cheat.

We already know that Nadal is perfectly willing to cheat on time between points, and on in-match coaching. We also know that his ability to exert during matches and recover from them quickly and without physical letdown is way beyond anybody else's.

I can understand the tendency towards denial by his fans (and certainly I can understand it from him), but his poor character and the physical circumstances make it a virtual lock that he's engaged in something unethical.

Welcome to the real world, indeed.

COME ON, don't make someone guilty when all there is is hearsay. Do you know why he recovers that easily (you answered your own question already)? Nadal takes about half an hour between points, so that alone makes his 4 hour matches as grueling as other 3 hour matches. Quite an easy explanation, no?

chess9
07-04-2006, 05:11 AM
No one should EVER call an athlete a drug cheat without STRONG EVIDENCE. This is not just some internet verbal hooliganism, but a very serious form of libel. As any lawyer on this forum will tell you, you are playing with dynamite by making such allegations. Don't think the owner of this web site couldn't be dragged into it as well for allowing such nonsense to stay posted. If this were my web site, anyone who posted such allegations would be GONE and their posts would be gone, and PRONTO.

Don't do it.

-Robert

Rhino
07-04-2006, 05:23 AM
No one should EVER call an athlete a drug cheat without STRONG EVIDENCE. This is not just some internet verbal hooliganism, but a very serious form of libel. As any lawyer on this forum will tell you, you are playing with dynamite by making such allegations. Don't think the owner of this web site couldn't be dragged into it as well for allowing such nonsense to stay posted. If this were my web site, anyone who posted such allegations would be GONE and their posts would be gone, and PRONTO.

Don't do it.

-Robert
Whoa calm down. The original post says that Nadal has been 'named'. There is nothing libelous in that, he HAS been NAMED by Journal du Dimanche. I didn't say Nadal IS a drug cheat, but the articles that are surfacing on the net are clearly of interest to his fans.
You assume that this thread is anti-Nadal. Not at all. So far the posts are mainly anti-Journal du Dimanche, and what they have printed could be considered libelous, but that's their problem. Merely discussing articles on many peoples favourite tennis player is not a crime, it's what these boards are for.

chess9
07-04-2006, 05:30 AM
Whoa calm down. The original post says that Nadal has been 'named'. There is nothing libelous in that, he HAS been NAMED by Journal du Dimanche. I didn't say Nadal IS a drug cheat, but the articles that are surfacing on the net are clearly of interest to his fans.
You assume that this thread is anti-Nadal. Not at all. So far the posts are mainly anti-Journal du Dimanche, and what they have printed could be considered libelous, but that's their problem. Merely discussing articles on many peoples favourite tennis player is not a crime, it's what these boards are for.

You need to read the other posts more carefully.

Also, libel is NOT a crime.

-Robert

Dilettante
07-04-2006, 05:43 AM
Aparently the french media can't deal with the idea of Nadal winning the FO again and again in future years.

Sad but true.

Rhino
07-04-2006, 05:52 AM
You need to read the other posts more carefully.

Also, libel is NOT a crime.

-Robert

Dude, "..is not a crime" is just a phrase, people use it for many things that are obviously not a crime.

Ok, I started reading other peoples posts but I got bored half way through, didn't see any 'allegations', although I assume somewhere in there some 10 year old has posted something that ****ed you off. We see that ALL the time on these boards. Like the idiot who made a thread saying that the Wimbledon schedule organisers are attempting to cheat by putting Murray matches on late. Nadal will sue Journal du Dimanche if anybody, not us for just talking about it.

The general thrust of this thread is pro-Nadal and most people are asking for hard evidence and don't even believe he would do such a thing.

Captain America
07-04-2006, 05:53 AM
Just speculation and innuendo at this point. Innocent until proven guilty, right?

Roforot
07-04-2006, 05:55 AM
Aparently the french media can't deal with the idea of Nadal winning the FO again and again in future years.
I have read all the articles in spanish and french, and believe me, ... there is nothing in them rather than malicious specutalions.
It is very unfair for him, being accused without any subtantial evidence.
I guess being a winner makes you a target .

It's good to know that the French dislike other people besides Americans :)

I remember 2 years ago, Kuznetova took Ephedrine for a cold, and was tested during a charity tournament in France. Apparently she wasn't even supposed to be tested and in the charity event, Ephedrine was permitted, but the French tournament director named her name while stating all the Belgiums were clean!

I read somewhere that Andy ROddick had been tested by the ATP around 18 times last year including 2 unannounced tests in Austin when he was hanging out! I'm sure Rafael has gone through similar testing periods. From everything I've read, tennis is one of the most active testing/penalizing sports agencies!

Rataplan
07-04-2006, 05:55 AM
As any lawyer on this forum will tell you, you are playing with dynamite by making such allegations. Don't think the owner of this web site couldn't be dragged into it as well for allowing such nonsense to stay posted. If this were my web site, anyone who posted such allegations would be GONE and their posts would be gone, and PRONTO.
On MTF and on the tennis forum of the BBC, the posts surrounding this - even if it was just people asking around about it - have been removed so I'm also guessing that the moderators of this board should be aware of the risks of keeping this here.

chess9
07-04-2006, 06:17 AM
It's good to know that the French dislike other people besides Americans :)

I remember 2 years ago, Kuznetova took Ephedrine for a cold, and was tested during a charity tournament in France. Apparently she wasn't even supposed to be tested and in the charity event, Ephedrine was permitted, but the French tournament director named her name while stating all the Belgiums were clean!

I read somewhere that Andy ROddick had been tested by the ATP around 18 times last year including 2 unannounced tests in Austin when he was hanging out! I'm sure Rafael has gone through similar testing periods. From everything I've read, tennis is one of the most active testing/penalizing sports agencies!

Yes, but the problem is there is a difference between taking samples and testing. The cost of testing is very high. How much actual testing is done? We aren't told. If you check the ITF web site, weasel words are everywhere to be found in their drug statements.

I hope no one in tennis is taking drugs and we should have zero tolerance for people who would try to ruin our sport the way the pros have tried to ruin cycling.

Also, I know of no drug that would make a huge impact on younger tennis pros. EPO MIGHT help some guys get through a 5 setter. But, if you don't mind the substantial risk of trying to pump sludge through your veins (EPO thickens the blood) then you should take up cycling instead. :) In the last ten years, btw, cycling has lost about 20 pros to drug abuse. Blood doping is another possible approach. All of these crude approaches will become "inoperable" once gene doping starts in another 20 years or so, however.

-Robert

chess9
07-04-2006, 06:21 AM
Dude, "..is not a crime" is just a phrase, people use it for many things that are obviously not a crime.

Ok, I started reading other peoples posts but I got bored half way through, didn't see any 'allegations', although I assume somewhere in there some 10 year old has posted something that ****ed you off. We see that ALL the time on these boards. Like the idiot who made a thread saying that the Wimbledon schedule organisers are attempting to cheat by putting Murray matches on late. Nadal will sue Journal du Dimanche if anybody, not us for just talking about it.

The general thrust of this thread is pro-Nadal and most people are asking for hard evidence and don't even believe he would do such a thing.

Oh, I agree that most people here understand how UNFAIR it is to label an athlete a drug cheat without any evidence. Unfortunately, we have a small contingent of people who think they can and SHOULD say anything.

None of my comments were directed towards you, btw.

I am a great admirer of Nadal also, fwiw. I just don't think he's quite ready to beat RF on grass, but maybe we will get to see that match. I hope so!

-Robert

Roforot
07-04-2006, 07:06 AM
Yes, but the problem is there is a difference between taking samples and testing. The cost of testing is very high. How much actual testing is done? We aren't told. If you check the ITF web site, weasel words are everywhere to be found in their drug statements.

I hope no one in tennis is taking drugs and we should have zero tolerance for people who would try to ruin our sport the way the pros have tried to ruin cycling.

Also, I know of no drug that would make a huge impact on younger tennis pros. EPO MIGHT help some guys get through a 5 setter. But, if you don't mind the substantial risk of trying to pump sludge through your veins (EPO thickens the blood) then you should take up cycling instead. :) In the last ten years, btw, cycling has lost about 20 pros to drug abuse. Blood doping is another possible approach. All of these crude approaches will become "inoperable" once gene doping starts in another 20 years or so, however.

-Robert

You are correct, I think Roddick had given about 18 samples, I assumed each was tested but do not know for sure. I also assume that other top 10 players would be tested/sampled similarily. I think that the biggest potential abuse for drugs would be in rehab; anabolic steroids can be used to help one recover from injuries faster. Otherwise I don't think there's much benefit to "bulking up" as tennis requires a lot of flexibility and coordination.

Rhino
07-04-2006, 11:33 AM
I don't think there's much benefit to "bulking up" as tennis requires a lot of flexibility and coordination.
It does add to Nadals intimidation factor though.
People like Henman always looked wimpy, like you could just play through them.

Nike Man
07-04-2006, 12:04 PM
Yep i would definately prefer to look across the net and see Henman than Nadal. Even on grass

HollerOne5
07-04-2006, 12:31 PM
Just speculation and innuendo at this point. Innocent until proven guilty, right?

It is innocent until proven guilty, the point is Nadal should never have been named publicly in the first place without concrete evidence. It sounds like it was more of an assumption, based on the fact that he is from Spain, is a tennis player, and has big muscles. The timing of the article is absolutely ridiculous, and hopefully Rafael is strong enough mentally to block it out and contend at Wimbledon like he would without the burden.

There is also a problem now, just like with Lance Armstrong, with the fact that now that it has even been mentioned publicly, it might always be in the back of some people's minds. There are still people out there that think the only reason Lance Armstrong dominated the Tour de France is because he was blood doping, and even though he has been cleared of charges, since allegations were made, some still think there is some reason to suspect.

This is absolutely wrong and the newspaper and journalists should be sued and should be stripped of their jobs.

HollerOne5
07-04-2006, 12:33 PM
It's good to know that the French dislike other people besides Americans :)

I remember 2 years ago, Kuznetova took Ephedrine for a cold, and was tested during a charity tournament in France. Apparently she wasn't even supposed to be tested and in the charity event, Ephedrine was permitted, but the French tournament director named her name while stating all the Belgiums were clean!

I read somewhere that Andy ROddick had been tested by the ATP around 18 times last year including 2 unannounced tests in Austin when he was hanging out! I'm sure Rafael has gone through similar testing periods. From everything I've read, tennis is one of the most active testing/penalizing sports agencies!

If this is true, then I think the ATP should take a huge responsibility and publicly announce how many times they have continually testes Nadal and state his innoncence. This is just ridiculous.

brucie
07-05-2006, 12:37 AM
Like it says was in paper this morning a rumour, and mearly a rumuor i hope hasd been created by "a bad person" as nadlas calls him suggesting this is what hes done, nadal blames rumours from what cycling is doing to other sports.
I must admit i doubt nadal is illegal pueta was found out at french last year nadal wasdnt and hes beat fed so many times he must have been tested loads.

Maybe this was a plan to upset him before wimby, maybe fed created it! ;)
Nadal assures us he wont let it affect his wimbledon chances. Luckily.

edit: spelling.

bobdebouwer
07-05-2006, 01:55 AM
all top 10 players are officially checked on a very regular basis on doping.
Nadal said he was checked 19 times last year, and this year it's the same.
He also said he'll be checked as soon as he loses at wimbledon.
I also read somewhere that the high-ranked players are checked more than the lower ranked.
so it thinks it's obvious there will be no doping-tennisplayer in the top 10 right now.
cyclists are a very different story. Those guys are involved in a sport that asks to much of a humans body., that sport is really unhealthy. And those medical teams are so big. And they even do bloodtransfusions with their own blood that's first has been upgraded with all sorts of stuff. It's really not normal anymore. Cyclist even die during their sports, talking about unhealthy... Also there's a lot of pressure on the cyclists because of their big sponsors.

Rhino
07-05-2006, 02:47 AM
On MTF and on the tennis forum of the BBC, the posts surrounding this - even if it was just people asking around about it - have been removed so I'm also guessing that the moderators of this board should be aware of the risks of keeping this here.
I must admit, even though the risks are like 0% that Nadal would cause a stink over a pro-Nadal thread, I did think that these (I think there are 3 now) threads would be removed.

pound cat
07-05-2006, 03:00 AM
"Maybe this was a plan to upset him before wimby, (maybe fed created it! )
Nadal assures us he wont let it affect his wimbledon chances."

I was thinking the same thing. Has someone got some big money riding on the outcome somehow?

No comment on Federer being involved. That could jeopardize a person's career. LOL

slice bh compliment
07-05-2006, 03:01 AM
Nadal won't let this bother him. He will use the negativity well.
He'll need to. He's got three rough assignments: Nieminen, Hewitt/Baghdatis, then Federer or Mario.

Marius_Hancu
07-05-2006, 03:30 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylt=ApOo07XR8LxzcMYiYGZ00VJ.grcF?slug=reu-spaindopingdc&prov=reuters&type=lgns

Rhino
07-05-2006, 03:51 AM
hmmmm the plot thickens.
Maybe some of the players were 'doped' unwittingly by a maverick doctor with irregular treatment methods.
If this is the case they should let the players off, as it's not their fault.
This could get interesting though.

chess9
07-05-2006, 04:35 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylt=ApOo07XR8LxzcMYiYGZ00VJ.grcF?slug=reu-spaindopingdc&prov=reuters&type=lgns

Interesting.... He seems to be saying he did nothing wrong, but I'm not sure. He's treating his patients, but what is he doing for them?

-Robert

MHK
07-05-2006, 05:23 AM
I just think the timing of this is rotten for Nadal - I don't believe for a second he has done anything wrong but it can't be easy for him to completely block it from his mind especially when journalists ask him straight out about it.

zampano
07-05-2006, 05:32 AM
the doctor was saying: "Names have appeared of people that I don't even know and there are others that haven't come out and I've no idea why but my professional oath forbids me from revealing their names" .

did he mean he didn't know nadal?

baseliner
07-05-2006, 06:23 AM
TEST to remove any cloud. Unfortunately,a story like this tarnishes many guilty and innocent alike.

norcal
07-05-2006, 06:38 AM
Why are you bringing up Nadal? He isn't mentioned in the article.

MHK
07-05-2006, 07:42 AM
Why are you bringing up Nadal? He isn't mentioned in the article.

It was me that mentioned him first - perhaps it isn't wise to or the point of the original post or whatever but from the previous posts on here, the coverage in the newspapers and the questions asked by journalists, it is Nadal who seems to be suspected of being in the frame - wrongly in my, and in most people's opinion, it would seem.

bayernstern
07-05-2006, 08:37 AM
Folks here's the complete transalation from the Clarin article (FYI, Clarin is a newspaper from Argentina)...

Rumors of doping now aims at Nadal

The French newspaper Him Journal du dimanche denounced the consumption of substances prohibited in the circuit. And it was asked, without giving arguments, how it is possible that the last champion of Roland Garros has as much musculatura in his left arm. Also it pointed against Juan Carlos Ferrero and Alex Corretja. The Spanish newspapers came out in defense of the player and speak of “envies of the average French”.

Hours of the debut of Rafael Nadal in Roland Garros, a French newspaper blames the Spanish Navy to use substances to improve its physical training conditionses in the circuit. And among them he is the two of the world, signs candidate to defend the title in the Grand Parisian Slam. Him Journal du dimanche also related to this case to ex- winners of the match like Alex Corretja and Juan Carlos Ferrero.

The Majorcan has chance to surpass the record of Guillermo Vilas of 53 consecutive victories on dust, whereas in the surroundings of tennis is accused it by the excessive musculatura in its left arm. The great jump gave the year it last, when it managed to consolidate in the second position of ranking ATP, and to be a complicated rival for Federer in any surface.

According to the French newspaper, EPO is a substance very used by the Spanish players. And this would explain the problems of allergy and slopes of tension of Ferrero and Corretja. These tennis players knew to be in the elite of tennis, but soon they fell in its level and the ranking. For example, the Mosquito obtained Roland Garros in 2003, and just in this last time it returned to fight of equal to equal with the best ones. Today sets acceded to second round after eliminating Juan Martin Of the Colt in four.

The daily Mark made a defense of its Navy, and spoke of “envies” of the French by not being able to conquer Roland Garros from 1983, when Noah raised itself with the most important match that she is disputed in that country. “While Nadal eclipsa to the world with its blows, the young generation of Gallic tennis players, dígase Monfils and Gasquet, follows without obtaining results”, assured the journalist Philip Chassepot in its note.

The last year an average French, the L´equipe newspaper, was the one that sent the rumor of doping of Mariano Puerta in this same match. To the few months, the Argentinean hard was sanctioned. This time it seems that there are no solid arguments, and is only one accusation.

Midlife crisis
07-05-2006, 09:19 AM
I read somewhere that Andy ROddick had been tested by the ATP around 18 times last year including 2 unannounced tests in Austin when he was hanging out! I'm sure Rafael has gone through similar testing periods. From everything I've read, tennis is one of the most active testing/penalizing sports agencies!

**CYCLING** is the most tested professional sport, and look at all the athletes who managed to never test positive but are now pretty significantly implicated. Take, for example, just at the Tour de France which is now going on. Every day's top three finishers are tested, as well as the yellow jersey wearer and a host of other random riders. Just last night, something like six teams and over 54 riders were tested for hematocrit levels before allowing to the start the next day's stage. Lance would have been tested 18 times in just the course of one month.

Tyler Hamilton, one of the "good guys" of cycling and someone who no one would have ever thought to have cheated, tested positive for blood irregularities and was banned for two years. He vehemently denied allegations and there were many who would have bet their fortunes that he was telling the truth, and he's been implicated in the Spanish doping ring.

The one thing you can be sure of is that the cheaters will always be ahead of the testers, mainly because the testing is so expensive. EPO is only detectable by urinalysis for a few days after it is used, but its effects in the blood can be detected for a long time afterwards by counting the number of immature blood cells in the bloodstream. The same can be done for those who re-transfuse their own previously extracted blood. However, these tests are very expensive and can't be afforded by the testing authorities if they're going to need to be done in the tens and twenties every night.

And now comes gene "therapies" where it's already possible to alter your genetic makeup. Pretty soon it'll come to the point that any child who wants to be a professional athlete will need to submit a DNA sample within minutes of birth or they'll be disqualified.

Rhino
07-05-2006, 09:31 AM
TW moderators just changed the name of the title of this thread from "Nadal named in Spanish doping probe" to "Nadal And (Rumored) Doping".
Interesting.

FedererUberAlles
07-05-2006, 10:03 AM
TW moderators just changed the name of the title of this thread from "Nadal named in Spanish doping probe" to "Nadal And (Rumored) Doping".
Interesting.

Whaaaaat? They just made it innacurate. "Nadal being named in Spanish doping probe" is what the first post is about, so that's what the thread should be titled by. If these moderators are at all intelligent, they will change the title.

sureshs
07-05-2006, 10:03 AM
Reuters today:
--------------------------------------------


Wimbledon-No tennis players on doping list, says ITF
Wed Jul 5, 2006 5:38 PM BST
Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS [-] Text [+] By Martyn Herman

LONDON, July 5 (Reuters) - The International Tennis Federation (ITF) said on Wednesday it had been assured that no tennis players were part of a Spanish investigation into doping.

A report in a French newspaper earlier this week said leading tennis and soccer players were part of an investigation named Operation Puerto.

"Following reports in the media, the ITF was immediately in touch with the Spanish authorities to request information about allegations that tennis players are under investigation," ITF president Francesco Ricci Bitti said in a statement.


"We have today been assured in writing by the Spanish Ministry of Education and Science that no tennis players, either Spanish or foreign, are under investigation.

"We feel that it is unfair and unfortunate that tennis players, including Rafael Nadal, have been named, erroneously, as under investigation.

"All top players are tested regularly under the Tennis Anti-Doping Programme and are aware of the rules of the World Anti-Doping Agency Code (WADA) code."

The ITF's statement came a day after the Spanish government categorically denied that footballers and tennis players had been implicated in the doping investigation that hit cycling.

However, the doctor at the centre of the Spanish probe, Eufemiano Fuentes, continued to insist on Wednesday he had treated footballers, athletes and tennis players as well as cyclists.

The names of more than 50 professional cyclists, including Tour de France favourites Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso and Francisco Mancebo appeared on the report. They were withdrawn by their teams from the race on Friday.

Nadal, who has reached the Wimbledon quarter-finals, reacted angrily to the report.

"I've never taken anything in my life, and I never will," he told reporters this week.

"I'm well enough educated in the sporting world and out of sporting world not to cheat. People who write lies about other people are bad people."

RiosTheGenius
07-05-2006, 10:08 AM
can they stop this nonsense???.... Nadal has been tested about 20 times this year and he's always tested negative... bunch of idiots.

ATXtennisaddict
07-05-2006, 10:09 AM
I'd give Nadal the benefit of the doubt. Nadal's just a genetically gifted kid who trains hard I'm sure.

jackson vile
07-05-2006, 10:57 AM
You guys are morons, Nadal and Roger get tested non-stop and that is with suprise tests even coming to their homes.

Something like 16 test this or last year alone.

Grimjack
07-05-2006, 11:22 AM
You guys are morons, Nadal and Roger get tested non-stop and that is with suprise tests even coming to their homes.

Something like 16 test this or last year alone.

Like all top athletes in test-allowed sports, the authorities that do the testing are bought and paid for by the same people who profit from keeping these guys on the playing field, performing the best that they possibly can.

Bodybuilders do steroids, they are "tested," the results are thrown in the garbage with a wink and a nod, and the product remains popular.

Baseball players were juiced out of their minds for decades, and it took a tell-all book by the biggest juicer of them all to get the court of public opinion to call for an end to it.

Football players are just about ALL roided up, and the NFL swears up and down that they test, and everybody comes up negative. Wonder why NFL'ers who "tested negative" are able to bench 600 lbs for reps, while average guys who are gym rats are lucky to reach 300 in their lives? Because "tested negative" is NFL-ese for, "our product is the best-selling sport in the world, and ain't no way in hell we're going to screw that up by enforcing rules nobody really wants enforced."

Lance Armstrong? Tested. Many times. Positive. Evidence is overwhelming. But it was in cycling's best interests to keep arguably the best story in sports history winning races.

Sports is business. EVERYTHING is decided by profits. Everything.

Now, with tennis...the sport is at an all-time low in popularity. The only charismatic player left in the game is about to retire, the "Next Great American Hope" was a bust, and the only thing giving the sport legs is that (A) Fed is chasing history, and (B) Nadal is chasing Fed. If you think Nadal, Federer, Agassi, Roddick, or any of the other handful of marketing goldmines the sport has would be in any way held to the rules if he didn't want to be, you're two parts naive, one part nuts. Tennis can maintain the illusion of control by taking the typical white man's way out: sell out the brown people. Bust a lot of unmarketable commodities from less-affluent nations, and the sporting public will happily forgive any "oversights."

The physical and character evidence against Nadal really doesn't leave much wiggle-room for the even vaguely-intelligent viewer. He has better recovery ability than anybody. He gets bigger and stronger than anybody, almost by accident.

(As an aside, for you dimwits who want to trot out the same old tired, "he's not really all that big, relative to real strength trainers," consider: real strength trainers need a LOT of recovery time, and a lot of recovery time is impossible if you're training for top-flight tennis...especially if your game is built around being a cardio workhorse. That is...they need a lot of recovery time, unless they're juicing. Then, the recovery systems are hopped up, and you can work your strength and cardio systems all day, and still practice hard enough to play world class. There's a reason tennis players are mostly skinny. Tennis takes a lot of work, both on court, and cardio, to have any hope. Players know strength would help too, but the unassisted human body can't train all three at pro-athlete levels without going into massive overtraining and physical collapse/sickness.)

But it's for the court of public opinion to decide whether they care or not.

SCARLETRUBIES
07-05-2006, 09:37 PM
hey guys, leave Nadal alone.

WIMBLEDON NEWS


Ricci Bitti - allegations without foundation.
DRUGS REPORTS DISMISSED BY ITF

The International Tennis Federation has dimissed reports that tennis players are linked to a drugs scandal engulfing the sport of cycling.

The doctor at the centre of the Spanish doping investigation which led to several riders withdrawing from the Tour de France, claims he has also treated tennis players, footballers and athletes.

Eufemiano Fuentes told Cadena Ser radio: "I'm angry about the whole matter. I've worked with other sports; tennis, football and athletics. There are a lot of names that haven't come out."

But ITF president Francesco Ricci Bitti said that his organisation had spoken to Spanish authorities investigating the case and that the reports were without foundation.

He said: "Earlier this week, following reports in the media, the International Tennis Federation was immediately in touch with the appropriate Spanish authorities to request information about allegations that tennis players are under investigation in Operation Puerto.

"We have today been assured in writing by the Spanish Ministry of Education and Science that no tennis players, either Spanish or foreign, are under investigation.

"We feel that it is unfair and unfortunate that tennis players, including Rafael Nadal, have been named, erroneously, as under investigation.

"All top players are tested regularly under the Tennis Anti-Doping Programme and are very aware of the rules of the WADA Code. We appreciate the assistance of the Spanish authorities in providing us very quickly with the necessary confirmation."

Nadal also reacted angrily earlier this week when questioned about reports linking him to the doping investigation in Spain.

The 20-year-old French Open champion said: "I have never taken anything in my life and I never will. I am well enough educated in the sporting world and outside not to cheat.

"People who write lies about other people are bad people. There is nothing more to say about this. My manager is speaking to my lawyers."

HollerOne5
07-05-2006, 09:46 PM
This thread should just be removed and deleted.

VamosRafa
07-05-2006, 09:46 PM
We Nadal fans have the escuse for why Rafa doen't win at Wimbly -- it's because he's dealing with these other allegations.

Rafa is mentally tough, and I do think he puts these things aside, but how much can you do that day in and day out.

I still think Rafa will set this all aside and do his best in the quarters.

Vamos, Rafael!

Offshore
07-06-2006, 08:21 AM
Like all top athletes in test-allowed sports, the authorities that do the testing are bought and paid for by the same people who profit from keeping these guys on the playing field, performing the best that they possibly can.

Bodybuilders do steroids, they are "tested," the results are thrown in the garbage with a wink and a nod, and the product remains popular.

Baseball players were juiced out of their minds for decades, and it took a tell-all book by the biggest juicer of them all to get the court of public opinion to call for an end to it.

Football players are just about ALL roided up, and the NFL swears up and down that they test, and everybody comes up negative. Wonder why NFL'ers who "tested negative" are able to bench 600 lbs for reps, while average guys who are gym rats are lucky to reach 300 in their lives? Because "tested negative" is NFL-ese for, "our product is the best-selling sport in the world, and ain't no way in hell we're going to screw that up by enforcing rules nobody really wants enforced."

Lance Armstrong? Tested. Many times. Positive. Evidence is overwhelming. But it was in cycling's best interests to keep arguably the best story in sports history winning races.

Sports is business. EVERYTHING is decided by profits. Everything.

Now, with tennis...the sport is at an all-time low in popularity. The only charismatic player left in the game is about to retire, the "Next Great American Hope" was a bust, and the only thing giving the sport legs is that (A) Fed is chasing history, and (B) Nadal is chasing Fed. If you think Nadal, Federer, Agassi, Roddick, or any of the other handful of marketing goldmines the sport has would be in any way held to the rules if he didn't want to be, you're two parts naive, one part nuts. Tennis can maintain the illusion of control by taking the typical white man's way out: sell out the brown people. Bust a lot of unmarketable commodities from less-affluent nations, and the sporting public will happily forgive any "oversights."

The physical and character evidence against Nadal really doesn't leave much wiggle-room for the even vaguely-intelligent viewer. He has better recovery ability than anybody. He gets bigger and stronger than anybody, almost by accident.

(As an aside, for you dimwits who want to trot out the same old tired, "he's not really all that big, relative to real strength trainers," consider: real strength trainers need a LOT of recovery time, and a lot of recovery time is impossible if you're training for top-flight tennis...especially if your game is built around being a cardio workhorse. That is...they need a lot of recovery time, unless they're juicing. Then, the recovery systems are hopped up, and you can work your strength and cardio systems all day, and still practice hard enough to play world class. There's a reason tennis players are mostly skinny. Tennis takes a lot of work, both on court, and cardio, to have any hope. Players know strength would help too, but the unassisted human body can't train all three at pro-athlete levels without going into massive overtraining and physical collapse/sickness.)

But it's for the court of public opinion to decide whether they care or not.

We should work to strengthen the testing policies to prove or unprove "innuendo" such as the above rant...and make the testing equal to all involved; if not, the crazies will continue tossing out names of those who are at the top of their sports and constantly scream "He's Doping"! IMO, until then, we should not assume guilt unless proven otherwise.

andfor
07-06-2006, 08:34 AM
We Nadal fans have the escuse for why Rafa doen't win at Wimbly -- it's because he's dealing with these other allegations.

Rafa is mentally tough, and I do think he puts these things aside, but how much can you do that day in and day out.

I still think Rafa will set this all aside and do his best in the quarters.

Vamos, Rafael!

Such is a day in the life of todays modern pro athlete. Welcome to the club Rafa. Enjoy..............The millions of $$$ should make this minor kind of distraction tolerable. If the pressure is to great I am sure there are plenty of cabana boy jobs waiting in Malorca. As I am sure Uncle Toni is telling him "Big picture Rafa.......focus........we need your urrrr the cash....."

chess9
07-06-2006, 09:01 AM
Offshore:

The cost of testing for, what, about 200 compounds, is huge. That's why many samples are never tested.

Furthermore, most federations want to put their head in the sand when it comes to drugs. They can handle one or two drug cheats a year, but what if the ITF discovered 20 tennis players, including some top 10 players, were using steroids? Would that be good for tennis?

Some point to cycling as evidence testing is rigorous, but it isn't the UCI that's catching these drug cheats, for the most part. It's the POLICE. And the UCI is under enormous political pressure to do something about drug usage because of the deaths of so many cyclists. Tennis is under no such pressure.

-Robert

Offshore
07-06-2006, 09:20 AM
Offshore:

The cost of testing for, what, about 200 compounds, is huge. That's why many samples are never tested.

Furthermore, most federations want to put their head in the sand when it comes to drugs. They can handle one or two drug cheats a year, but what if the ITF discovered 20 tennis players, including some top 10 players, were using steroids? Would that be good for tennis?

Some point to cycling as evidence testing is rigorous, but it isn't the UCI that's catching these drug cheats, for the most part. It's the POLICE. And the UCI is under enormous political pressure to do something about drug usage because of the deaths of so many cyclists. Tennis is under no such pressure.

-Robert

Good points, all. I used to be friends (he has since moved to another part of the country) with a coach who worked with many top juniors over the years and he was a guy that was pretty tied in to the sport. He believed that a huge majority of players were using some type of "pharmaceutical assistance" and many juniors were using human growth hormones. He also indicated, and agreed with you, that there are about 200 compounds to test for and that the "formal" testing only hit on a few of these. Unfortunately the future of cleaning this up does not look very promising.

chess9
07-06-2006, 09:56 AM
Offshore:

Interestingly enough, gene doping will replace actual doping in a few more years. I'm fairly certain that gene doping WILL NOT entail turning ON the honesty gene in all competitors. :)

-Robert

foetz
07-06-2006, 11:31 AM
Like all top athletes in test-allowed sports, the authorities that do the testing are bought and paid for by the same people who profit from keeping these guys on the playing field, performing the best that they possibly can.

Bodybuilders do steroids, they are "tested," the results are thrown in the garbage with a wink and a nod, and the product remains popular.

Baseball players were juiced out of their minds for decades, and it took a tell-all book by the biggest juicer of them all to get the court of public opinion to call for an end to it.

Football players are just about ALL roided up, and the NFL swears up and down that they test, and everybody comes up negative. Wonder why NFL'ers who "tested negative" are able to bench 600 lbs for reps, while average guys who are gym rats are lucky to reach 300 in their lives? Because "tested negative" is NFL-ese for, "our product is the best-selling sport in the world, and ain't no way in hell we're going to screw that up by enforcing rules nobody really wants enforced."

Lance Armstrong? Tested. Many times. Positive. Evidence is overwhelming. But it was in cycling's best interests to keep arguably the best story in sports history winning races.

Sports is business. EVERYTHING is decided by profits. Everything.

Now, with tennis...the sport is at an all-time low in popularity. The only charismatic player left in the game is about to retire, the "Next Great American Hope" was a bust, and the only thing giving the sport legs is that (A) Fed is chasing history, and (B) Nadal is chasing Fed. If you think Nadal, Federer, Agassi, Roddick, or any of the other handful of marketing goldmines the sport has would be in any way held to the rules if he didn't want to be, you're two parts naive, one part nuts. Tennis can maintain the illusion of control by taking the typical white man's way out: sell out the brown people. Bust a lot of unmarketable commodities from less-affluent nations, and the sporting public will happily forgive any "oversights."

The physical and character evidence against Nadal really doesn't leave much wiggle-room for the even vaguely-intelligent viewer. He has better recovery ability than anybody. He gets bigger and stronger than anybody, almost by accident.

(As an aside, for you dimwits who want to trot out the same old tired, "he's not really all that big, relative to real strength trainers," consider: real strength trainers need a LOT of recovery time, and a lot of recovery time is impossible if you're training for top-flight tennis...especially if your game is built around being a cardio workhorse. That is...they need a lot of recovery time, unless they're juicing. Then, the recovery systems are hopped up, and you can work your strength and cardio systems all day, and still practice hard enough to play world class. There's a reason tennis players are mostly skinny. Tennis takes a lot of work, both on court, and cardio, to have any hope. Players know strength would help too, but the unassisted human body can't train all three at pro-athlete levels without going into massive overtraining and physical collapse/sickness.)

But it's for the court of public opinion to decide whether they care or not.

great post!
and it's true for a lot more things than just doping ... ;)

Benhur
07-03-2009, 09:46 AM
My french is pretty poor, but that's what it looks like to me:

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2006/05/29/um/m-01204492.htm

This article, and all the others being presented here as current, are from 2006. That was 3 years ago. These pieces of gossip were discussed here when they came out, and keep being periodically resurrected and presented as Current News, without anyone apparently noticing it or caring. One poster even prefaced his 2006 pasted text with the title: "Reuters Today"

jackson vile
07-03-2009, 09:49 AM
Like all top athletes in test-allowed sports, the authorities that do the testing are bought and paid for by the same people who profit from keeping these guys on the playing field, performing the best that they possibly can.

Bodybuilders do steroids, they are "tested," the results are thrown in the garbage with a wink and a nod, and the product remains popular.

Baseball players were juiced out of their minds for decades, and it took a tell-all book by the biggest juicer of them all to get the court of public opinion to call for an end to it.

Football players are just about ALL roided up, and the NFL swears up and down that they test, and everybody comes up negative. Wonder why NFL'ers who "tested negative" are able to bench 600 lbs for reps, while average guys who are gym rats are lucky to reach 300 in their lives? Because "tested negative" is NFL-ese for, "our product is the best-selling sport in the world, and ain't no way in hell we're going to screw that up by enforcing rules nobody really wants enforced."

Lance Armstrong? Tested. Many times. Positive. Evidence is overwhelming. But it was in cycling's best interests to keep arguably the best story in sports history winning races.

Sports is business. EVERYTHING is decided by profits. Everything.

Now, with tennis...the sport is at an all-time low in popularity. The only charismatic player left in the game is about to retire, the "Next Great American Hope" was a bust, and the only thing giving the sport legs is that (A) Fed is chasing history, and (B) Nadal is chasing Fed. If you think Nadal, Federer, Agassi, Roddick, or any of the other handful of marketing goldmines the sport has would be in any way held to the rules if he didn't want to be, you're two parts naive, one part nuts. Tennis can maintain the illusion of control by taking the typical white man's way out: sell out the brown people. Bust a lot of unmarketable commodities from less-affluent nations, and the sporting public will happily forgive any "oversights."

The physical and character evidence against Nadal really doesn't leave much wiggle-room for the even vaguely-intelligent viewer. He has better recovery ability than anybody. He gets bigger and stronger than anybody, almost by accident.

(As an aside, for you dimwits who want to trot out the same old tired, "he's not really all that big, relative to real strength trainers," consider: real strength trainers need a LOT of recovery time, and a lot of recovery time is impossible if you're training for top-flight tennis...especially if your game is built around being a cardio workhorse. That is...they need a lot of recovery time, unless they're juicing. Then, the recovery systems are hopped up, and you can work your strength and cardio systems all day, and still practice hard enough to play world class. There's a reason tennis players are mostly skinny. Tennis takes a lot of work, both on court, and cardio, to have any hope. Players know strength would help too, but the unassisted human body can't train all three at pro-athlete levels without going into massive overtraining and physical collapse/sickness.)

But it's for the court of public opinion to decide whether they care or not.

Wow, this is just simply blantantly ignorant to the highest degree.

Any time a tennis player has tested positive for something they have been punished to the fullest no matter how popular they are ie Gasquet, Martina Hingis.

No matter how much they were liked they were banned end of story no second chance! And you see how they bend over and more for the women, yet her results were made public and she was forced out!

Your arguments are all based on anecdotal evidence, show me something that actually has substance.

Otherwise I believe that Roger's slump was do to a drug addiction.

Rhino
07-03-2009, 09:49 AM
This article, and all the others being presented here as current, are from 2006. That was 3 years ago. These pieces of gossip were discussed here when they came out, and keep being periodically resurrected and presented as Current News, without anyone apparently noticing it or caring. One poster even prefaced his 2006 pasted text with the title: "Reuters Today"

Sure, well I started this thread in 2006, but drak has bumped it.