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View Full Version : Both Luncanu and D. Young lose at W


Marius_Hancu
07-05-2006, 06:44 AM
Two of the favorites out in juniors:

http://www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/scores/draws/bs/index.html

I saw Roshardt playing here in Montreal in a Futures. He trains in Halle, at the academy there. Pretty intense guy, slim and talented.

MasterTS
07-05-2006, 06:55 AM
Young is not a favorte for anything, period.

chess9
07-05-2006, 07:05 AM
Well, on the one hand most of the top juniors who win these Junior Slams don't go on to the top of the pros. So, is this a blessing in disguise? :)

On the other hand, he didn't make a big splash, which is a bummer.

Who ya' gonna' call if you are the USA? Our college players are about 60% foreign players and we have, what, maybe 20 promising juniors over the age of 16? (Ok, that's very generous.)

-Robert

Egalite
07-05-2006, 09:41 AM
Donald actually seems to be worse than he was a year ago. Remember he was the youngest ever year end junior No 1.

Bogie
07-05-2006, 10:09 AM
de bakker is actually the favorite for pretty much any tourny nowadays. even look at my who will win wimby juniors thread on the first page.

ATXtennisaddict
07-05-2006, 10:11 AM
How many top pros today won junior slam events? name as many as you can.

Moose Malloy
07-05-2006, 10:14 AM
Federer, Roddick, Baghdatis, Nalbandian

malakas
07-05-2006, 10:17 AM
Monfils,Gasquet also.

Bogie
07-05-2006, 10:22 AM
http://www.itftennis.com/juniors/players/index.asp

use the search on the right to enter any players' name that you want and check their records

lacoster
07-05-2006, 11:01 AM
Just some notables:

Aussie Open champs - Edberg, Enqvist, Kiefer, Roddick, Tipsarevic, Baghdatis, Monfils

Roland Garros champs - McEnroe, Leconte, Edberg, Wilander, Santoro, Pavel, Zabaleta, Gonzalez, Coria, Matheiu, Gasquet, Monfils

Wimbledon - Borg, Lendl, Cash, Edberg, Enqvist, Federer, Monfils

USOpen champs - Cash, Edberg, Rios, Schalken, Kiefer, Nalbandian, Niemenen, Roddick, Gasquet, Murray

*Edberg = only player to achieve the Junior Grand Slam in singles.
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chess9
07-05-2006, 11:23 AM
Just some notables:

Aussie Open champs - Edberg, Enqvist, Kiefer, Roddick, Tipsarevic, Baghdatis, Monfils

Roland Garros champs - McEnroe, Leconte, Edberg, Wilander, Santoro, Pavel, Zabaleta, Gonzalez, Coria, Matheiu, Gasquet, Monfils

Wimbledon - Borg, Lendl, Cash, Edberg, Enqvist, Federer, Monfils

USOpen champs - Cash, Edberg, Rios, Schalken, Kiefer, Nalbandian, Niemenen, Roddick, Gasquet, Murray

*Edberg = only player to achieve the Junior Grand Slam in singles.

Ok. Ok. So, I lied. Sue me. :)

-Robert

goober
07-05-2006, 04:51 PM
I am actually surprised that Young seems to be going backwards instead of progressing. He should be blowing out other juniors or at least finding a way to win. Instead he again loses in a 3rd round of junior tournament. He is turning 17 in a couple weeks and really is pretty much the same age as most of the juniors in the tournament.

erik-the-red
07-05-2006, 05:35 PM
There are only five players who won both junior and professional grand slams, as follows:

1. Ivan Lendl
2. Stefan Edberg
3. Pat Cash
4. Roger Federer
5. Andy Roddick

Sampras, Agassi, Chang, and Courier never won junior slams.

And, wasn't a substantial number of Young's points from doubles last year?

omniexist
07-05-2006, 05:48 PM
I've never seen Young play...but I can see he isn't a very big or tall guy.

That alone will hurt him a bit.

goober
07-05-2006, 05:50 PM
There are only five players who won both junior and professional grand slams, as follows:

1. Ivan Lendl
2. Stefan Edberg
3. Pat Cash
4. Roger Federer
5. Andy Roddick

Sampras, Agassi, Chang, and Courier never won junior slams.



That stat is misleading. Chang and Agassi turned pro very early. Chang was 15 and Agassi was 16. Back then you could not play junior slams and be a professional. Given both of their early success, these guys would have easily won junior slams (as well as Becker for that matter).

goober
07-05-2006, 05:51 PM
I've never seen Young play...but I can see he isn't a very big or tall guy.

That alone will hurt him a bit.

He has been reported as 5'11" There are plenty of very good pros that are that height or shorter. He still may grow some. His height is not holding him back.

arosen
07-05-2006, 06:02 PM
[QUOTE=chess9]
Who ya' gonna' call if you are the USA? Our college players are about 60% foreign players and we have, what, maybe 20 promising juniors over the age of 16? (Ok, that's very generous.)

That's it, right there. USF has 100% foreigners team, not a single US player. How do you build a future champion when all the opportunities are given to talented outsiders?

tennis334
07-05-2006, 06:38 PM
Isn't Marcos Baghdatis 5'11"? Thats been the word with the Wimbledon coverage, and he seems to be doing all right these days.

lacoster
07-05-2006, 07:55 PM
There are only five players who won both junior and professional grand slams, as follows:

1. Ivan Lendl
2. Stefan Edberg
3. Pat Cash
4. Roger Federer
5. Andy Roddick

Sampras, Agassi, Chang, and Courier never won junior slams.

And, wasn't a substantial number of Young's points from doubles last year?

Where are you getting your information?

McEnroe and Wilander also won both junior and pro grand slams.

Most players that didn't win junior Grand Slams end up playing the pro tour at a very young age. Some other grand slam winners, among ACTIVE players:

Nadal turned pro after his 15th birthday, but got to the semis of Wimbledon juniors at 14 (FYI). Hewitt already was winning ATP titles at 16 (Adelaide). Safin turned pro at 17, beating Agassi and Kuerten in his Roland Garros debut. Ferrero only played one junior GS, losing Roland Garros final to Gonzales in '98 then turning pro the following year at 18.
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Egalite
07-05-2006, 08:36 PM
Young looks about 5'9" to me. He's about the same height as Hewitt and Agassi. When Baghdatis shook hands with Hewitt yesterday you could see he was clearly shorter than Hewitt.

Loads of pro's add 2-3 inches to their "official" height - it's called VANITY! DY's height would not seem to be a limiting factor particularly.

If you want to compare real heights of pro's, check out that picture of the players at the Masters standing in a line. The average head is 10" high, and the eyes are half way up.

Egalite
07-05-2006, 09:06 PM
Not that one, but another one from Houston 2004.

Safin is really about 6'4", so that makes Hewitt and Gaudio around 5'9", and Coria a midget 5'6". Small size is therefore not really a problem for the retriever type of player.

http://www.tennis.info/Houston4-01Sat.asp

EliteNinja
07-05-2006, 09:24 PM
zomg lol
Roddick is wearing canvas sneakers.

Moose Malloy
07-07-2006, 10:52 AM
WIMBLEDON, England Donald Young is only 16. He has the diamond stud earring and the unnatural life of a professional athlete where academics are done online and he's more likely to be found in an airplane seat than behind a desk.

So feeling sorry for Donald Young may seem silly. Yet here on a gloomy Wednesday at Wimbledon, after he had flung his racket in anger at the end of his third-round loss to Robin Roshardt of Switzerland, 6-4, 7-6 (7), in boys' singles, Young was sounding like a vulnerable teenager and not America's next great tennis star

"No, not really," Young said when he was asked whether he has any friends. "Everybody else does. Not me. Guys don't want to hit with me, they're not interested in going to dinner with me."

On a day when the U.S. Tennis Assn. said it would turn to Chris Evert, one of its greatest stars, and the Evert Tennis Academy to lift the sagging fortunes of the American game, the kid who has been touted as a future star for two years seemed nothing more than confused and discouraged.

Young said Andy Roddick and Taylor Dent have taken time to talk, but most other top pros have not.

The 5-foot-11 Young has been playing the international junior circuit since 2004. An African American from Chicago who has been carefully guided by his parents, Donald Sr. and Illonah, he is managed by IMG, clothed by Nike and contracted to use Head rackets.

Mostly competing against players two, three and four years older, Young owns one junior Australian Open title (2005) and one junior Wimbledon semifinal (2005). He lost in the quarterfinals of the U.S. Open juniors last year, was a third-round loser in the junior French Open this year and now is a third-round loser at Wimbledon.

"I wish I hadn't come back to juniors this year," Young said. "Everybody is pointing at me."

But Young wasn't sure where he wished he had gone. He knows he's not ready to be competing against the top pros.

"Not yet," he said. The scrabbling life of trying to earn ranking points on the cutthroat circuit of challenger events filled with older men trying to earn a living isn't attractive. "I don't want to do that." Young said there was a group of other junior players he was friends with before he committed to playing the full international junior circuit. "But I've kind of passed them by," he said. "And now they're not around."

Billie Jean King, chairman of the USTA high performance committee, said that she disagrees with how Young has been conducting his career so far, playing over his age level.

"I think it's hurt him," King said. "I think he needs to win a few matches. You need to understand what it feels like to win, you have to win enough to get that confidence.

"If you're too young and you totally are in way over your head, in a way, there's no pressure. They say, oh, you know, it's great for experience. But to keep getting killed all the time, or beaten badly, is not good."

The USTA, stung by the early demise here of the Americans in the men's and women's singles, had an hourlong round-table discussion Wednesday that translated into 54 pages of quotes on what's to be done to nurture and strengthen young American players.

The USTA said the alliance with the Evert Tennis Academy in Boca Raton, Fla., is a beginning. The plan is to offer year-round training and housing facilities for top juniors, ages 14 to 18, at the complex owned and run by Evert winner of 18 Grand Slam singles titles and three doubles titles and her brother John. The USTA also will construct a new building at the academy to serve as the national headquarters for USTA Player Development.

But it's too late for Young. His housing is more often a hotel room than his home. He sat in a small room at Wimbledon with his mother and his agent silently at his side saying that he plans to play the national U.S. 18-under championships in Kalamazoo, Mich., this summer winning would give him an automatic berth in the U.S. Open main draw. After that, he's not sure.

He spoke wistfully of wishing he could get more tips from top players such as the one John McEnroe gave him. "He told me to just walk around like I'm one of the best players," Young said. "I like that people have confidence in me. But just because I'm an American player, it doesn't mean I'm guaranteed."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/tennis/la-sp-tennis6jul06,1,926902.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-tennis

erik-the-red
07-08-2006, 09:15 AM
Where are you getting your information?

McEnroe and Wilander also won both junior and pro grand slams.

Most players that didn't win junior Grand Slams end up playing the pro tour at a very young age. Some other grand slam winners, among ACTIVE players:

Nadal turned pro after his 15th birthday, but got to the semis of Wimbledon juniors at 14 (FYI). Hewitt already was winning ATP titles at 16 (Adelaide). Safin turned pro at 17, beating Agassi and Kuerten in his Roland Garros debut. Ferrero only played one junior GS, losing Roland Garros final to Gonzales in '98 then turning pro the following year at 18.

It was a trivia question in the 2004 ATP Masters Canada final between Federer and Roddick. More specifically, it was "since 1978", so I do not know if McEnroe and Wilander won theirs before that time, especially since McEnroe won his first major in 1979 and Wilander won his first in 1982.

I'm not disputing your second paragraph whatsoever; in fact, I don't even know why you decided to bring it up. The point I wanted to make was how difficult it is for junior champions to make the transition to the ATP Tour. Each year at most four players win junior slams, how many of these ended up being "names"?

Of course there are many players who didn't do well in the juniors but ended up breaking out on the tour, like the players I mentioned in my post...

Edit

One is never objective when one is emotional, but if that's how Donald Young feels, then it does show that he has been spoiled by his wildcards.

What's so bad about playing futures, challengers, and qualifiers? Win a few and you're not a "junior" anymore.

guernica1
07-08-2006, 09:29 AM
"No, not really," Young said when he was asked whether he has any friends. "Everybody else does. Not me. Guys don't want to hit with me, they're not interested in going to dinner with me."

Poor guy; he's taken a lot of bashing. I've been pretty harsh on him in the past but moreso for his game and not his personality which I don't know is like.

Of course I don't know him personally but I have to wonder if its just not his personality that's causing him to become isolated but also his parents.

That last quote about wanting some more advice from top players... well, isn't this the same guy who after getting bageled by Berlocq, had his camp saying they didn't need any advice from other pros?

He can't have it both ways. I really wonder how much his parents have stunted his development both as a pro and as an adult.

Its pretty clear that some prodigies thrive under family coaching (like Nadal) but most don't. Like Gasquet realizing he had to split from his father as a coach.

Also, as others have pointed out, most of the top young guys end up just playing futures exclusively. This year's #1 and 2 seeds would have been Korolev and Del Potro.

lacoster
07-08-2006, 10:13 AM
I'm not disputing your second paragraph whatsoever; in fact, I don't even know why you decided to bring it up. The point I wanted to make was how difficult it is for junior champions to make the transition to the ATP Tour. Each year at most four players win junior slams, how many of these ended up being "names"?



Your prevoius posts seem to knock on junior tennis. I brought it up for obvious reasons that most GREAT juniors at 15/16/17 are already making a dent on the ATP, therefore bypassing junior tournaments, like the players you mention on your first post as well as mine. Some players stick around at age 18/19 on the junior tour, winning big tournaments and getting burned out, which is why they don't end up being "names" when they finally hit the ATP.
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lacoster
07-08-2006, 10:15 AM
http://www.itftennis.com/juniors/circuit/index.asp
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Marat Safinator
07-17-2006, 05:55 PM
He has been reported as 5'11" There are plenty of very good pros that are that height or shorter. He still may grow some. His height is not holding him back.

donald young is 5'9. hes short.

goober
07-17-2006, 06:46 PM
donald young is 5'9. hes short.

Have you seen him in person? I have and he looks taller than 5'9" to me. He has been reported to have grown in the last year. Most of the websites do not have updated info on his height. Since juniors are growing it is not surprising.

This reporter interviewed him in March and talked about to him about his growth. "...he's now nearly 5-foot-11

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_tennis/2006/03/donald_very_you.html

goober
07-17-2006, 06:50 PM
I also suggest you read the recent article that Moose Malloy posted above. There is a line which begins "The 5-foot-11 Young ...."

FiveO
07-17-2006, 07:57 PM
There are only five players who won both junior and professional grand slams, as follows:

1. Ivan Lendl
2. Stefan Edberg
3. Pat Cash
4. Roger Federer
5. Andy Roddick

Sampras, Agassi, Chang, and Courier never won junior slams.

And, wasn't a substantial number of Young's points from doubles last year?

6. Mats Wilander won the RG juniors in 1981 and the main event in 1982. 7 singles majors in total. In '88 he was one Wimbledon shy of a calendar Grand Slam.