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View Full Version : Turn out the lights, the party's over--FED Again


Dedans Penthouse
07-05-2006, 10:21 AM
Federer has not even been challenged, let alone threatened. As crazy as I thought this may have sounded 2 weeks ago, I'm actually hoping that Raphel Nadal can make it to the finals. At least that would be a novelty act, that is, it might be able to hold one's interest (albeit for probably only a set and a half).

The point being: Mario Ancic (very good player) was supposedly a possible challenge, if not a threat to Fed; a top 10 seed and the last guy to be Fed at Wimbledon. Same ol' story: Fed in straights, 4, 4 and 4.

Baghdatis? You just know that as feisty and competitive as he is, he's not a threat to Fed on grass over 5 sets. Hewitt? Same as Marco, but doesn't have the overall goods to take 3 out of 5 sets from Federer. Jonas? Good S&V player but his mid-30-ish "pins" (legs)? Can't see him hangin' around too much longer. Radek? Again, good player; but not Wimbledon champion material. Same with Jarkko. I'll catch heat for this, but it almost seems like there are a number (not all) of players who seem content to make a "nice/comfortable top 5-10 living" and leave it at that. Yeah, I'm maybe oversimplifying things and yes, it may be born out of frustration that the men's game really doesn't have much going for it at the top, i.e. beyond Fed and Nadal.

That is, when a special champion came along and "raised the bar" so to speak, it seemed that the game would be all the more better because that challenge would usually be taken up by more than one other player seeking to match the new "high watermark" champion. Navratilova for example, raised the bar with her 'physical-fitness' and the Evert's, Austins et al at least attempted to take up the challenge by addressing their respective fitness levels. Outside of Rafa, I don't really see it. Marat's in limbo; Hewitt's married. David Nalbandian (that cow!) is a prime example of this. Coasting along, top 5 player......a couple of big wins here and there (e.g. vs. Fed in Shanghai) to keep his high ranking.....but not REALLY making the attempt to knock (or at least honestly) challenge Federer. Even some former #1's themselves were guilty of settling into the comfort zone; Moya and Kafelnikov come to mind.

So, to that end, like him or not, Nadal it seems, is the only top tier player possessing enough gumption to refuse to hand Federer his #1 ranking unchallenged. Again, I never thought I'd be saying this 2 weeks ago, especially about a grass court final, but I do hope (for curiousity's sake) Nadal makes the final; because the "other" men on tour are just doormats for Federer and that would make the Wimby finals a foregone conclusion, i.e. not worth watching other than the fact that it IS the Wimbledon finals.

If not Nadal, then, the 2006 Wimbledon Finals could read:
Roger Federer vs. a comfortable, millionaire "satisfied" doormat. JMO.

The Pusher Terminator
07-05-2006, 10:26 AM
I agree...except that if Nadal makes it to the finals then he will beat Fed. Nadal has the momentum and I think Fed will crack while on the other hand Nadal is mentally as strong as a rock. This is very similar to my post on this topic:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=107611&page=2

anyway you slice it...Wimby is boring without a Nadal-Fed rivalry

arosen
07-05-2006, 10:27 AM
Dedans, you gonna get burned, this one is for Match Results. On a lighter note, Ancic did all he could. I thought he had a shot when he broke back in a third. Nadal is definitely the only guy out there that can scare Roger the Hair Product metrosexual. If the courts get worn out, slow down, then Rafa would be in to cause an upset.

Golden Retriever
07-05-2006, 10:29 AM
So much for S&V against Federer. It is funny people still say S&V is the antidote for Federer while Nadal, a baseliner, is the only one who has Federer's number.

jaykay
07-05-2006, 10:30 AM
Damn... he is good. Gasquet, Henman, Ancic - dismissed EASILY!

I thought Ancic threw everything at him, but Fed was simply too good. Some of the strokes that he executed were incredible... and as a few gazillion tennis enthusiasts have pointed out time and again - this dude makes it look SO EASY. The fluid grace, the artistry, the ballet on the court... ah - this is why I watch tennis.

I fervently hope that somebody gives him a run for his money and makes a match of it.

Arafel
07-05-2006, 10:36 AM
I said this 2 weeks ago when Blake was interviewed and he basically said you have to go out and hope you have an amazing day and that Fed has an off day to have a chance.

Compare that to Connors on Borg after Borg stomped him in the 78 Wimbledon finals: "I'll follow that ******* to the ends of the earth!"

Now that is fighting.

ACE of Hearts
07-05-2006, 10:38 AM
I wanna see Roger vs Rafa in the final.I just wanna see how Roger will answer.

skip1969
07-05-2006, 10:41 AM
i think the word i'm looking for is . . . "wow!"

Moose Malloy
07-05-2006, 10:46 AM
If Nadal gets to the final the gap between 1 & 2 will narrow, he will gain more points for reaching the final than Fed will for winning it.

There hasn't been a French Open final rematch in the Wimbledon final since 1952.

Dedans Penthouse
07-05-2006, 10:47 AM
Dedans, you gonna get burned, this one is for Match Results.
Yeah, I guess you're right, but I was trying to address a more "general" issue; the Fed-Mario was just an "incidental" thrown into the mix....but I do get your point. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I do, however, do NOT intend to burned. ;-)

I was just making a "general" point (observation) by saying that it seems that besides Nadal, the others are resigned AND ACCEPT playing 2nd fiddle to Fed; just so long as they're "top 10 and comfortable."

Almost that the 2006 finalist could be heard during the post-match interview saying: "Even though I lost to Fed.....I'm just so happy to have made it this far."

dh003i
07-05-2006, 11:13 AM
Pusher,

Never missing an opportunity to diss Federer. Why can't you just be realistic. Nadal has "momentum"? Bull. He's barely scraping by in an easy draw.

Federer's the guy who hasn't lost a set during the entire Wimbledon, and who has only lost serve twice. He will easily streamroll over Nadal if they meet.

Federer is just too good on grass. He's had an extremely tough draw, and has steamrolled over everyone. Yet, people on this board like yourself somehow seem to think that Nadal struggling to get by really lowly ranked poor grass-court players is somehow more impressive than Federer dominating great grass-courters.

ACE of Hearts
07-05-2006, 11:16 AM
Nadal's gaining points, thats what i dont like.

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 11:24 AM
If Nadal gets to the final the gap between 1 & 2 will narrow, he will gain more points for reaching the final than Fed will for winning it.

There hasn't been a French Open final rematch in the Wimbledon final since 1952.

The gap would be 2000 from 2700 points, which is still huge.

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 11:33 AM
I was just making a "general" point (observation) by saying that it seems that besides Nadal, the others are resigned AND ACCEPT playing 2nd fiddle to Fed; just so long as they're "top 10 and comfortable."

Almost that the 2006 finalist could be heard during the post-match interview saying: "Even though I lost to Fed.....I'm just so happy to have made it this far."

I don't agree. When Roddick was No. 2, he tried so many things to beat Federer. He couldn't simply because he was not good enough. It is simple reality that Federer IS much better than the rest of the field when he plays his A game. I haven't never seen someone who can play this high level of tennis consistently for such long period of time except Graf. I just don't agree others didn't (don't) try. We are just not used to see anyone dominating like this on ATP. Quite a few players really chanllenged Federer at Australia Open.

Moose Malloy
07-05-2006, 11:35 AM
True, but it now seems likely that Nadal will do well the rest of the year on fast surfaces, if he does what virtually everyone thought was impossible a month ago(reach W finals)

Unless he's injured, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a semi at US Open, & makes finals at Toronto & Cincinnati. All which would be huge points gain.
Who knows what the gap would be come post Australian Open.

Rickson
07-05-2006, 11:37 AM
I agree...except that if Nadal makes it to the finals then he will beat Fed. Nadal has the momentum and I think Fed will crack while on the other hand Nadal is mentally as strong as a rock. This is very similar to my post on this topic:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=107611&page=2

anyway you slice it...Wimby is boring without a Nadal-Fed rivalry
LMAO! Nadal would beat Federer on grass? Nadal couldn't win a set against Federer on grass. Were you on grass by any chance when you made that post?

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 11:41 AM
True, but it now seems likely that Nadal will do well the rest of the year on fast surfaces, if he does what virtually everyone thought was impossible a month ago(reach W finals)

Unless he's injured, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a semi at US Open, & makes finals at Toronto & Cincinnati. All which would be huge points gain.
Who knows what the gap would be come post Australian Open.

I am still not convinced Nadal will make final at Cincinatti and US Open - he is more susceptible of being upset on faster surfaces. Making Wimbledon final this year doesn't erase everything. Look at his schedule, even though he missed the first month, he still scheduled to play 21 events this year, and he will play two clay events after Wimbledon. Federer only plays 12-15 each year.

His game is quite demanding physically. If he keeps up schedule like this, he'll be out in a couple of years when he can really start to chanllenge Federer on faster surfaces. I still think he needs a couple of years to be able to play consistently on faster surfaces.

Marius_Hancu
07-05-2006, 11:45 AM
If Fed stays at the baseline (which is a shame, his game is considerably less spectacular than in 2003; and he could even then win just as quickly), I'm sure Nadal will get him at W too, sooner or later. Same for USO.

I just hope Stepanek will win his match, to have more S-V with at least one of the S-Finalists.

chess9
07-05-2006, 11:49 AM
Brilliant post Moose. I agree totally.

The interesting question in my mind is how high can Nadal raise his game between now and the final and then again in the final against Federer? The kid is an amazingly talented and quick study. Only Nadal has a chance of beating Federer IF he makes it to the final.

-Robert

Moose Malloy
07-05-2006, 11:50 AM
I am still not convinced Nadal will make final at Cincinatti and US Open - he is more susceptible of being upset on faster surfaces. Making Wimbledon final this year doesn't erase everything.

I know Nadal has yet to make the semis, but he's already done what you said he couldn't do a few months ago-make the 2nd week at W. So we'll see how often your predictions are right.

I really think you overrate how important court speed is in today's game. Everyone plays from the baseline, so it doesn't really surprise me to see yet another baseliner do well. Verdasco, Ferrer made the 2nd week at W this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see them do the same at US Open. It is fast, but it doesn't really matter. No one volleys or serves big enough to consistently trouble Nadal. Its not like he has to worry about playing Sampras/Krajicek/Rafter like types of the 90s. He's just beating up on a tour of Ferrers basically.
And he was struggling with that foot injury at last year's open, I'm sure he will do better this year.

Look at his schedule, even though he missed the first month, he still scheduled to play 21 events this year, and he will play two clay events after Wimbledon.


Ok, if he plays those clay events, then I don't like his chances during the hardcourt season or US Open. I think his camp will make him rest at least a month if he makes finals at Wimbledon.

ACE of Hearts
07-05-2006, 11:53 AM
Nadal is a quick-learner but why havent people realise that he has had a ****** draw!:rolleyes:

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 11:58 AM
I know Nadal has yet to make the semis, but he's already done what you said he couldn't do a few months ago-make the 2nd week at W. So we'll see how often your predictions are right..

I never said Nadal wouldn't make the second week. It depends on the draw. I also said he might do better the second week if he gets there because grass wears out more.

I really think you overrate how important court speed is in today's game. Everyone plays from the baseline, so it doesn't really surprise me to see yet another baseliner do well. Verdasco, Ferrer made the 2nd week at W this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see them do the same at US Open. Its fast, but it doesn't really matter. No one volleys or serves big enough to consistently trouble Nadal. He was struggling with that foot injury at last year's open, I'm sure he will do better this year. ..

I am not stressing court speed as much as court bounce. I always stressed for Nadal to do well on US Open type of court, he needs to stay closer to baseline. if he can do that, he will do fine. Verdasco and Ferrer don't stay too far behind baseline on fast surfaces like Nadal does. Nadal certainly stayed closer to baseline this year at Wimbledon. Let's see he will continue to do that on fast hardcourt. By the way, he didn't have foot injury at US Open last year. It occured after US Open at Bejing.




Ok, if he plays those clay events, then I don't like his chances during the hardcourt season or US Open. I think his camp will make him rest a month if he makes finals at Wimbledon.

He should. He is No. 2, shouldn't try to chase clay court points at this point. I just can't believe they still make his schedule like this this year after talking about toing down his schdule more this year.

KBalla08
07-05-2006, 12:38 PM
when hardcourt season rolls around, i can bet u if blake is on nadals side of the draw, he'll beat nadal everytime...

ATXtennisaddict
07-05-2006, 12:41 PM
Nadal is a quick-learner but why havent people realise that he has had a ****** draw!:rolleyes:

nadal fans turn a blind eye on ****** draws

Kobble
07-05-2006, 12:56 PM
If Nadal makes the finals Fed's knees will oscilate with fear, and the resulting resonance will crumble his foundation. Game, set, match, Nadal. Just as it always goes. Except for one time, Fed got lucky, once.

Rabbit
07-05-2006, 01:08 PM
Right now it's looking more and more like a Federer/Nadal final. It will be interesting to see if Federer comes into that match with a Becker-like "this is my house (living room)" mentality or one of "damn...not this guy again". Nadal right now is riding high on confidence. I don't think he believes he's an underdog. He plays better defense than Federer and might be able to quell the offense that Federer produces, we'll see. I think the court set up favors Nadal more now than at any time in the past.

Simon Cowell
07-05-2006, 01:11 PM
Federer fans are very nervous right now and are praying/fasting/hoping that Nadal doesn't make it to the final, because if he does, Nadal will confirm his already captured title of best player in the world. I look foward to adding a 5th line to my signature.

ACE of Hearts
07-05-2006, 01:13 PM
The problem with Nadal will be that Fed's backhand is lethal on grass, he wont get any heavy topspin on grass.I hope it happens and Roger destroys him.He needs it for his confidence.

The Pusher Terminator
07-05-2006, 01:16 PM
The problem with Nadal will be that Fed's backhand is lethal on grass, he wont get any heavy topspin on grass.I hope it happens and Roger destroys him.He needs it for his confidence.

He needs a lot more than that for his confidence.

TXKiteboarder
07-05-2006, 01:19 PM
not to mention today's nadal match was cancelled so he will have to play tomrrow and possibly next day at semifinal against bagboy.


I dont know, the way bag played earlier in the game, he has a good chance of making it to the final. he has the ability to turn up for 5setters and can hang in games even if he is not playing great.

what i like about him is that in interviews, he always talks about strategies. he has plenty of time to relax and wait for a great semifinal.

ACE of Hearts
07-05-2006, 01:20 PM
U ********s forget that this is not the FO, Nadal has won 4 on clay, this is grass!I hope its Roger and Rafa in the final, so u Rafa fans and Rafa can feel the wrath on grass.

Simon Cowell
07-05-2006, 01:21 PM
U ********s forget that this is not the FO, Nadal has won 4 on clay, this is grass!I hope its Roger and Rafa in the final, so u Rafa fans and Rafa can feel the wrath on grass.

Did you forget that Nadal beat Federer on the FAST courts of Dubai this year?

ACE of Hearts
07-05-2006, 01:23 PM
Dont give me Dubai, this is grass!!His number 1 surface.Also u forget that Nadal hasnt played anyone good and dont give me old fart Andre Agassi.

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 02:04 PM
Did you forget that Nadal beat Federer on the FAST courts of Dubai this year?

Why do you keep saying Dubai was fast court? All outdoor courts in the first half of year are slow to medium. They never played on fast courts.

If Federer can't beat Nadal on grass in this Wimbldeon, then Nadal is the better player between them.

TXKiteboarder
07-05-2006, 02:13 PM
Why do you keep saying Dubai was fast court? All outdoor courts in the first half of year are slow to medium. They never played on fast courts.

If Federer can't beat Nadal on grass in this Wimbldeon, then Nadal is the better player between them.



IF

Moose Malloy
07-05-2006, 02:16 PM
Why do you keep saying Dubai was fast court? All outdoor courts in the first half of year are slow to medium. They never played on fast courts.


Agassi said Dubai is a fast hardcourt. It is Decoturf II, same surface as US Open.

Simon Cowell
07-05-2006, 02:18 PM
Agassi said Dubai is a fast hardcourt.

Yep, and of course "the tennis guy" knows more than Agassi. :rolleyes:

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 02:24 PM
Agassi said Dubai is a fast hardcourt. It is Decoturf II, same surface as US Open.

Not all Decoturf II are the same speed. As I said before, ATP certifies slow, medium, and fast including Decoturf II. The speed and bounce of court is not determined by surface, but by what's underneath, and by what resin they use. Dubai was similar to Indian Wells, the one Navratilova complained about being too slow (high bouncing).

By the way, I also got information about San Jose indoor hardcourt. They did change the court to slow the last few years. I remember we talked about this. I wasn't sure whether they changed or not at that time.

wilsonboi
07-05-2006, 02:26 PM
federer winning is getting toooooooo repetitive.
i want to see him lose on grass
, or at least get close

Moose Malloy
07-05-2006, 02:30 PM
Dubai was similar to Indian Wells, the one Navratilova complained about being too slow

what are you basing this on? when agassi played dubai he said the court was fast. he reiterated this when talking to espn on saturday in response to fowler saying nadal couldn't trouble federer on fast surfaces.

I don't know why Agassi would lie.

urban
07-05-2006, 02:34 PM
Fed said to the press, that the best volleyer he plays against, is his trainer, when old Tony stands at the net. I agree with Peter Bodo, that the best volleyer on tour at the moment is Amelie Mauresmo. Grass court tennis is on an all time low. Ancic tried, but his low volley and half volley is stiff and unsecure. Also his first serve percentage seemed to be very low.

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 02:34 PM
what are you basing this on? when agassi played dubai he said the court was fast. he reiterated this when talking to espn on saturday in response to fowler saying nadal couldn't trouble federer on fast surfaces.

I don't know why Agassi would lie.

From someone who worked at ATP. Both Indian Wells and Dubai courts are slow, however, due to desert condition, the balls travels faster in the air. Sampras used to have trouble at Indian Wells because he said the ball just flied on him. Both Miami and Indian Wells have kept similar speed, but the new material make them bounce even higher. Those type of courts trouble Federer as well.

I watched the Dubai final. It seems to me the court was slow, high bouncing. Fastdunn watched as well, I thought he said something similar.

Moose Malloy
07-05-2006, 03:03 PM
Ok, I guess you and Agassi just have different definitions of 'fast.'

ACE of Hearts
07-05-2006, 03:07 PM
Give me a break wilsonboi, i wanna see the best win on grass and that is Fed right now.Did u get tired when u saw Sampras win everything?:rolleyes:

Simon Cowell
07-05-2006, 03:58 PM
Agassi has actually played at Dubai and has determined them to be FAST courts. The tennis guy, have you had any experience on those courts? For the time being, I'll take Agassi's first hand account over yours, with all due respect.

tlm
07-05-2006, 04:06 PM
Nadal has already played better than i thought he would at wimbly,but i still dont know if he can get to the final.If he does anything is possible, but i dont think he can beat fed on grass.

Moose Malloy
07-05-2006, 04:06 PM
There hasn't been a French Open final rematch in the Wimbledon final since 1952.

can anyone name the players that were in those finals?

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 04:13 PM
Ok, I guess you and Agassi just have different definitions of 'fast.'

I find what Agassi said in that interview. It seems to me it is not clear what his reference point was of Dubai court speed. Was it relative to the 3 clay matches Federer lost to Nadal or was it relative to US open.

I also find what Agassi said before his match against Nadal, to figure out if he was reference to Montreal. He said only he lost to Nadal in close match on a very high bouncing hardcourt at Montreal. He didn't say about speed.

In Dubai match, Nadal stayed far behind baseline, scrambling like he usually does against Federer, which is completely different from what he is playing at Wimbledon in his last two matches.

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 04:17 PM
can anyone name the players that were in those finals?

1952 F.A. Sedgman (AUS) #1 def. J. Drobny (EGY) #2

Simon Cowell
07-05-2006, 04:17 PM
I find what Agassi said in that interview. It seems to me it is not clear what his reference point was of Dubai court speed. Was it relative to the 3 clay matches Federer lost to Nadal or was it relative to US open.

I also find what Agassi said before his match against Nadal, to figure out if he was reference to Montreal. He said only he lost to Nadal in close match on a very high bouncing hardcourt at Montreal. He didn't say about speed.

In Dubai match, Nadal stayed far behind baseline, scrambling like he usually does against Federer, which is completely different from what he is playing at Wimbledon in his last two matches.

Don't shift around and play the context game to fit your agenda. He wasn't talking in any context of other players. He flat out said that the Dubai courts are fast courts. All that's left to do is to retract your previous, incorrect statement. :)

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 04:20 PM
Don't shift around and play the context game to fit your agenda. He wasn't talking in any context of other players. He flat out said that the Dubai courts are fast courts. All that's left to do is to retract your previous, incorrect statement. :)

I don't have any agenda like you do. Every hard court is fast court relative to red clay.

Raistlin
07-05-2006, 04:30 PM
I don't have any agenda like you do. Every hard court is fast court relative to red clay.

Indeed!:mrgreen:

ballplayer
07-05-2006, 04:30 PM
According to ATP (the drawsheet will usually specify type of hardcourt surface) and DecoSystems company, the surface of all but one US Open Series events (including both masters events) are the same as US Open: Decoturf II, and so is Dubai Open. http://www.decoturf.com/tournaments.html.
SteveG's factsheets says the same. http://www.************.com/factsheets/2006/

Some of you think this is not correct?

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 04:34 PM
According to ATP (the drawsheet will usually specify type of hardcourt surface) and DecoSystems company, the surface of all but one US Open Series events (including both masters events) are the same as US Open: Decoturf II, and so is Dubai Open. http://www.decoturf.com/tournaments.html.
SteveG's factsheets says the same. http://www.************.com/factsheets/2006/

Some of you think this is not correct?

Decoturf II doesn't mean the same speed. ATP and Decoturf certify 3 speed, slow, medium, fast.

This is from the website you provided:

Outstanding Performance
DecoTurf is unmatched in providing full-depth resilience. Its multi-layer cushion system affords maximum player comfort and exceptional durability throughout the life of the court. In addition, each DecoTurf court can be fine tuned to provide the precise speed of play you desire. All DecoTurf courts have been classified by the International Tennis Federation (ITF) in each of the three categories, slow, medium or fast.

Rickson
07-05-2006, 04:34 PM
turn off the light (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flRCJAfUMgg&search=nelly%20furtado)

Simon Cowell
07-05-2006, 04:35 PM
According to ATP (the drawsheet will usually specify type of hardcourt surface) and DecoSystems company, the surface of all but one US Open Series events (including both masters events) are the same as US Open: Decoturf II, and so is Dubai Open. http://www.decoturf.com/tournaments.html.
SteveG's factsheets says the same. http://www.************.com/factsheets/2006/

Some of you think this is not correct?

So now we have the ATP and Andre Agassi saying the Dubai courts are infact FAST courts. You can either believe them or thetennisguy.

HollerOne5
07-05-2006, 04:37 PM
According to ATP (the drawsheet will usually specify type of hardcourt surface) and DecoSystems company, the surface of all but one US Open Series events (including both masters events) are the same as US Open: Decoturf II, and so is Dubai Open. http://www.decoturf.com/tournaments.html.
SteveG's factsheets says the same. http://www.************.com/factsheets/2006/

Some of you think this is not correct?


I'm not totally sure, but I've played on the Los Angeles courts, and I can assure you, just by watching the US Open on television, that the New York courts are much faster. I honestly felt like the USO last year played like carpet it was so fast.

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 04:40 PM
So now we have the ATP and Andre Agassi saying the Dubai courts are infact FAST courts. You can either believe them or thetennisguy.

You don't know what you are talking about obviously. This is from DecoTurf:

Outstanding Performance
DecoTurf is unmatched in providing full-depth resilience. Its multi-layer cushion system affords maximum player comfort and exceptional durability throughout the life of the court. In addition, each DecoTurf court can be fine tuned to provide the precise speed of play you desire. All DecoTurf courts have been classified by the International Tennis Federation (ITF) in each of the three categories, slow, medium or fast.

Same surface doesn't mean same speed! Get it?

Moose Malloy
07-05-2006, 04:47 PM
1952 F.A. Sedgman (AUS) #1 def. J. Drobny (EGY) #2

Interesting, they were 1 & 2 at W that year.

find what Agassi said in that interview. It seems to me it is not clear what his reference point was of Dubai court speed. Was it relative to the 3 clay matches Federer lost to Nadal or was it relative to US open.

I also find what Agassi said before his match against Nadal, to figure out if he was reference to Montreal. He said only he lost to Nadal in close match on a very high bouncing hardcourt at Montreal. He didn't say about speed

I understand what you are saying, but the players don't all think like you. Some just say fast, medium, or slow(you should see what Blake says, he thinks all hardcourts are slow even US Open) They don't get into details like "its fast, but with a high bounce" etc. Or compare every hardcourt event to the US Open. The don't always have a reference point, they aren't designing courts, just playing on them.


The interview went like:
Q:What do you respect about Nadal?
A:many things, blah, blah,the way he competes, etc. The fact that he's 6-1 vs Roger.
Q:you think he could trouble Fed in the final?
A: Sure.
Q: You're not serious, nadal can only beat fed on slow surfaces.
A: Well he beat Fed on a fast hardcourt in Dubai.

And he said Dubai was fast when he played it as well. Didn't talk about bounce, but even if it was high bouncing, he seems to think it was fast.

Both Indian Wells and Dubai courts are slow, however, due to desert condition, the balls travels faster in the air

you know most players that say stuff like this "balls were flying," usually consider that fast conditions. I remember many saying this when US Open switched to Ashe Stadium in '97.
I know there's a difference in bounces on hardcourts, but I've never heard players that said "balls were flying" considering the court slow.

jaykay
07-05-2006, 04:49 PM
turn off the light (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flRCJAfUMgg&search=nelly%20furtado)

Very nice.

HollerOne5
07-05-2006, 04:52 PM
Indian Wells is about the slowest hardcourt ever made, way way way slower than Dubai, EVER

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 05:00 PM
you know most players that say stuff like this "balls were flying," usually consider that fast conditions. I remember many saying this when US Open switched to Ashe Stadium in '97.
I know there's a difference in bounces on hardcourts, but I've never heard players that said "balls were flying" considering the court slow.

Trust me, Sampras said that many times at Indian Wells. I remember clearly he said that after he finally won the first time (against Agassi if I remember correctly). Hingis said that one year after she lost to Davenport. She said something like, the court was slower than Australia Open at that time, but the ball just flied off her racket, and she couldn't control her shots.

The tennis guy
07-05-2006, 05:02 PM
Indian Wells is about the slowest hardcourt ever made, way way way slower than Dubai, EVER

Indian Wells is faster than Miami. You need to go down there to see how slow it is down there. I actually wonder why Navratilova picked Indian Wells as a slow example rather than Miami.

Rickson
07-05-2006, 05:10 PM
Very nice.
Nelly Furtado is hot!

Dedans Penthouse
07-06-2006, 10:16 AM
At this stage of the game (the relative speed of a hard court aside), it should be noted that Nadal, for all his "fast court" deficiencies, must be doing something different this year. I mean, maybe he hasn't beaten any world beaters thus far (not his fault, btw), but at the same time, his opponents ARE world class players hitting 120+ serves....on grass. Who'd Nadal lose to LAST YEAR? Gilles Mueller WHO?? What "name" has Mueller knocked off this year? The "Top 20 bums" such as Jarkko Niemanen that Nadal has beaten THIS YEAR were/are better players than a Gilles Mueller; so maybe Nadal has progressed on grass to a (whatever) measurable degree. Marco Baghdatis is a good, likeable player, but can you see the lil' Baghster winning the majority (3 of 5) sets vs. Fed on grass? Not me.

I'm not saying Nadal has "arrived" on grass, but in my humble opinion, Nadal is really the only "unknown-X" factor left in the draw. The Nadal of 2005 who tried to play 15 feet behind the baseline? Cake. This year? Well....say what you want but the kid at least isn't some bed-wetting, thumb-sucking whinner who refuses to ween himself off clay; he made a concerted effort to better himself, to possibly challenge the king in the king's court (Wimbledon). For better or worse, the lefty scowler represents the only possible "glimmer of entertainment" come the finals. Jonas? Nice going and "TAK" buddy, BUT, 34 yr. old legs aren't going to get it done vs. Fed, especially over FIVE sets. Again, Marcos doesn't have enough "big" in his game (he's an updated/better version of Hewitt at this stage) to carry it to Fed over FIVE sets.

I'm no cheerleader for either Fed or Nadal, I just want something/ANYTHING that'll prove worthy of a Wimbledon final--I don't want a Chris Lewis "going out for the slaughter" excuse for a Wimbledon final. And as it stands, Nadal (we just don't know just how far, if any, he's progressed as a grass court player) appears to be the only 'X-factor' for Fed. I can't believe I'm even suggesting this; next thing ya know, I'll be asking for Susan's hand in marriage. LMAO.

tlm
07-06-2006, 03:10 PM
You are right on dedans,at least it will make it interesting.I dont think nadal can beat fed on grass,but maybe he can make it worth watching.

We have already seen how easy fed is killing everybody else,bags no way,nadal i dought it but at least it would interesting.

The tennis guy
07-06-2006, 03:19 PM
At this stage of the game (the relative speed of a hard court aside), it should be noted that Nadal, for all his "fast court" deficiencies, must be doing something different this year. I mean, maybe he hasn't beaten any world beaters thus far (not his fault, btw), but at the same time, his opponents ARE world class players hitting 120+ serves....on grass. Who'd Nadal lose to LAST YEAR? Gilles Mueller WHO?? What "name" has Mueller knocked off this year? The "Top 20 bums" such as Jarkko Niemanen that Nadal has beaten THIS YEAR were/are better players than a Gilles Mueller; so maybe Nadal has progressed on grass to a (whatever) measurable degree. Marco Baghdatis is a good, likeable player, but can you see the lil' Baghster winning the majority (3 of 5) sets vs. Fed on grass? Not me.

I'm not saying Nadal has "arrived" on grass, but in my humble opinion, Nadal is really the only "unknown-X" factor left in the draw. The Nadal of 2005 who tried to play 15 feet behind the baseline? Cake. This year? Well....say what you want but the kid at least isn't some bed-wetting, thumb-sucking whinner who refuses to ween himself off clay; he made a concerted effort to better himself, to possibly challenge the king in the king's court (Wimbledon). For better or worse, the lefty scowler represents the only possible "glimmer of entertainment" come the finals.

Nadal definitely improved his positioning on grass court this eyar. It remains to be seen how well he plays against attacking player who also moves well. The only one he played against so far was Kendrick who played similar to Mueller last year.

The only question for me in this Wimbldeon is how well Federer would play against Nadal on his favorite surface. I agree with your original post completely, it is Federer who determines who the winner is in this Wimbledon.

The Pusher Terminator
07-06-2006, 03:48 PM
"Nadal seems supremely confident he will dethrone Federer, and the process apparently is underway before our eyes". ...Tennis Week