sampras - huge service spin with enormous grip?

[grizzly4life]

have been wondering about pete sampras. seems like just about the only well-known tennis pro who has used a huge grip (7/8 apparently).

and i think his serves had the most topspin.....

i thought that smaller grips = more spin.... so how did sampras get so much spin on his ball?..... i can find the study on the spin if people are interested...

as an aside, why are tennis racquet companies so disposed to creating smaller grip racquets? i don't see too many 4 5/8 grips (a few though) and i find it pretty small (and i'm only 6-1 and half, maybe).

thanks in advance!

[jackson vile]

I love large grips, and I am all about spin. It is just simply trends as everything else in tennis

[brucie]

I can tell you the grip didnt generate spin for him, technique obviously a key factor, but also the almmount of lead he used made the 18mm st vincent frame all the more flexy giving bags of spin.

[jackson vile]

I feel the grip give me more comfort and control, not sure if that is correct for everyone.

But yes Mr.S spin came from a full body proper techniqe and one heck of a heavy racket.

Perhaps with a smaller grip it was just too demanding of the hand to control the racket on impact would be my guess.

[travlerajm]

It's not about the grip. The key to Sampras' serve is the high swingweight (about 367 kg-cm^2). You need to train by serving a lot of balls with a racquet that heavy in order to have enough shoulder strength to swing it upwards with good velocity, but if you can swing a racquet that heavy, you are rewarded with heavy nasty serves. My recommendation if you want to serve like Sampras is to add weight gradually to the head of your racquet, a gram or two at a time. Once your shoulder is accustomed to serving with a heavier swingweight, then you can nudge up a little again. You will be able to safely increase your max swingweight if you do it slowly and carefully and always give yourself rest days between heavy serving sessions with your high swingweight racquet.

[grizzly4life]

thanks for the responses...

i lead-taped my babolat PD and could hit huge serves (close to unreturnable sometimes at 4.0 level)....... but keeping the ball in the court on all shots was a huge issues.

[travlerajm]

thanks for the responses...

i lead-taped my babolat PD and could hit huge serves (close to unreturnable sometimes at 4.0 level)....... but keeping the ball in the court on all shots was a huge issues.

If you increase your power level by adding lead, you may need to increase the tension to compensate. But if you continue adding more lead, the spin/power ratio of your groundstrokes will start to increase again, and your serve will still be potent. As little as 1 gram at 3 and 9 can make a big difference, so I recommend experimenting by adding 1 gram at a time at 3 and 9. Keep adding until you find the point where your serve has maximum effectiveness. It's likely that when you reach this point, you will have enough lead to slow down your groundstrokes so that you can control them, and your ball will be very heavy (but you'll still may need to bump of the tension by a couple of pounds).

[travlerajm]

thanks for the responses...

i lead-taped my babolat PD and could hit huge serves (close to unreturnable sometimes at 4.0 level)....... but keeping the ball in the court on all shots was a huge issues.

I just did some calculations to find a nasty all-around setup for a PD Standard. Try this and I think you'll like it:

1) Add 11g total at 3 and 9 (with center of mass 20.5" from butt).
2) Counterweight with 10g in the butt (with center of mass at 0.5" from the butt).

[grizzly4life]

travelrajm and others, thank you.... TLRJM, can you do a set up for a prince NXG OS as well? loving aspects of it, but can't seem to get my serve down with it.

[travlerajm]

travelrajm and others, thank you.... TLRJM, can you do a set up for a prince NXG OS as well? loving aspects of it, but can't seem to get my serve down with it.

I had the same experience with the NXG OS when I first got it. But I've found a mod that works well on every shot for me. See this thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=106736

[jackson vile]

It's not about the grip. The key to Sampras' serve is the high swingweight (about 367 kg-cm^2). You need to train by serving a lot of balls with a racquet that heavy in order to have enough shoulder strength to swing it upwards with good velocity, but if you can swing a racquet that heavy, you are rewarded with heavy nasty serves. My recommendation if you want to serve like Sampras is to add weight gradually to the head of your racquet, a gram or two at a time. Once your shoulder is accustomed to serving with a heavier swingweight, then you can nudge up a little again. You will be able to safely increase your max swingweight if you do it slowly and carefully and always give yourself rest days between heavy serving sessions with your high swingweight racquet.


I thought it was higher than that, so Taylor Dent is the hights at 400 kg-cm2?

[travlerajm]

I thought it was higher than that, so Taylor Dent is the hights at 400 kg-cm2?

Taylor's is 400 and Pete's is 367 according to Greg Raven. Other candidates for highest current swingweight on tour are Moya, Kuerten, Kiefer and Rusedski based on their high static weights and/or HH balance points, but I'm not sure of their exact SW.

[tonyjh63]

I can tell you the grip didnt generate spin for him, technique obviously a key factor, but also the almmount of lead he used made the 18mm st vincent frame all the more flexy giving bags of spin.

Brucie, could you elaborate a little on that last point please? Thanks.

[MTXR]

always give yourself rest days between heavy serving sessions with your high swingweight racquet.


THIS IS KEY!!! I felt like my arm/shoulder was about to fall off the next day when i played again.

REST!!!! is KEY!!

[travlerajm]

THIS IS KEY!!! I felt like my arm/shoulder was about to fall off the next day when i played again.

REST!!!! is KEY!!

Yes. When you serve with high SW, it's like a weight-lifting session.

[Andres]

Does anyone know a formula to manually calculate the swingweight of my racquets?

[travlerajm]

Does anyone know a formula to manually calculate the swingweight of my racquets?

I' = I + m'(r' - 10)^2 + m''(r'' - 10)^2

I' = swingweight
I = stock swingweight
m' = mass 1 added at location r' in kg
r' = center of mass of m' in cm from butt
m'' = mass 2 added at location r'' in kg
r'' = center of mass of m'' in cm from butt
(add more terms if mass added at more than 2 locations)

[Bungalo Bill]

Does anyone know a formula to manually calculate the swingweight of my racquets?

Learn this if you are interested.

http://www.racquetresearch.com/

[Kaptain Karl]

I'm with both of you first two posters. I'm 6'2" and have always prefered a larger grip. (I hit Eastern about 60-65% and SW FHs the balance.) I buy frames with 5/8 ... and build them up to 3/4 .

Oh! And I have big Kick ... heavy Slice ... and above average Flat serves.

- KK

[Roforot]

I'm with both of you first two posters. I'm 6'2" and have always prefered a larger grip. (I hit Eastern about 60-65% and SW FHs the balance.) I buy frames with 5/8 ... and build them up to 3/4 .

Oh! And I have big Kick ... heavy Slice ... and above average Flat serves.

- KK

If you're 6'2", you should have a big serve no matter what :)

[Marat Safinator]

he could have enormous hands for all you know.

[Marat Safinator]

I' = I + m'(r' - 10)^2 + m''(r'' - 10)^2

I' = swingweight
I = stock swingweight
m' = mass 1 added at location r' in kg
r' = center of mass of m' in cm from butt
m'' = mass 2 added at location r'' in kg
r'' = center of mass of m'' in cm from butt
(add more terms if mass added at more than 2 locations)


:confused: what the hell

[Galactus]

It's not about the grip. The key to Sampras' serve is the high swingweight (about 367 kg-cm^2). You need to train by serving a lot of balls with a racquet that heavy in order to have enough shoulder strength to swing it upwards with good velocity, but if you can swing a racquet that heavy, you are rewarded with heavy nasty serves. My recommendation if you want to serve like Sampras is to add weight gradually to the head of your racquet, a gram or two at a time. Once your shoulder is accustomed to serving with a heavier swingweight, then you can nudge up a little again. You will be able to safely increase your max swingweight if you do it slowly and carefully and always give yourself rest days between heavy serving sessions with your high swingweight racquet.
You're 100% correct with this post. Well, I think so anyway being as doing this myself has had exactly the results you describe.
I added 36g of lead to my PS 6.0 at 3 and 9 o'clock with Babolat VS17 Team gut @64lb and the results are alarming: I find I can serve fairly 'heavy' and have been timed at between 105-115mph.
However, I am 6'3 and 210lb so obviously I find swinging such a racquet quite easy.