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View Full Version : Nadal Forces Change?


marcl65
07-12-2006, 07:56 AM
Let me start out by saying that I don't think that the time Nadal takes between points is a strategy. McEnroe remarked that he takes the same amount of time between points when he's winning as when he's losing (which isn't often). I think that Nadal plays at his own speed, rules and player complaints be damned.

However, he has gotten several warnings (largely ignored) AND there have been complaints by players and commentators alike. Everyone seems to comment on it. The guys on Wimbledon radio had a clock on him. I thought it was pretty funny watching Agassi (a fast player) sit down while Nadal was preparing for the next point.

I wonder if it will eventually reach a point where something is implemented (like a clock in chess) if he keeps flagrantly taking too much time. Like 2 warnings = loss of point or fault (if on serve)? Should something be implemented?

sureshs
07-12-2006, 08:00 AM
I noticed it too. I was expecting him to do his usual delaying routine on breakpoints down. But he didn't - maybe took just a tad extra time.

But this might have been because it was a final and he knows he was being closely watched. The next time he plays someone in the second round somewhere, he might try it again.

Hal
07-12-2006, 08:12 AM
The rules are already in place for taking too much time, but they are not being enforced.

marcl65
07-12-2006, 08:35 AM
What exactly is the rule? And what, if any, is the penalty?

I think eventually people are going to get tired of the time he takes between points. It doesn't seem to bother Federer but others have complained about it. Actually I was very surprised that the officials at Wimbly let it go. Of all the GSs, I would have thought they'd be the one to call him on it. I wonder if they don't because without him, Federer would just roll over all the GSs. Against everyone else, Federer is fantastic...against Nadal he just looks good.

kicker75
07-12-2006, 08:47 AM
What exactly is the rule? And what, if any, is the penalty?


You have I believe 30 secs to serve from the end of the last point. I believe the first penalty is a warning. After that, not sure.

Shabazza
07-12-2006, 08:54 AM
You have I believe 30 secs to serve from the end of the last point. I believe the first penalty is a warning. After that, not sure.
I'm quite sure it is 25 sec.

chess9
07-12-2006, 08:57 AM
They don't enforce the foot fault rule, but rarely, so why should they enforce this one?

I would be in favor of increasing the time to 30 or 35 seconds with the proviso that it be enforced.

Persistent foot faulters should have the game forfeited for the third violation in a match.

-Robert

kicker75
07-12-2006, 09:01 AM
I'm quite sure it is 25 sec.

You're right. ITF rules is 25 sec. British rules is 30 sec. I would go with the ITF

marcl65
07-12-2006, 09:47 AM
They don't enforce the foot fault rule, but rarely, so why should they enforce this one?
I don't think that's entirely true. I think it was in last year's USOpen that L. Hewitt got repeated foot faults called against him in one of the later rounds. I remember him being extremely upset over it.

25-30 seconds sounds fair to me. I have a feeling that if it goes on long enough some tourney will eventually set a standard and tell Nadal beforehand that they're not going to put up with long delays between points. There seems to be no shortage of players or commentators that are annoyed with it. I was listening to the matches on the Wimbly Radio site and heard the commentators talk about timing Nadal but I never heard what his max time was. Regardless, I think it would be in Nadal's best interest to try to generally speed up his play...it would be better if he does it on his own than if it's forced on him.

araghava
07-12-2006, 09:59 AM
I think the rule needs clarification. Is it 25 secs to get to the serve line with ball in hand or 25 secs to actually serve. One of the things i noticed about Nadal is that he takes most of the time at the service line.

Tactically that probably drives the opponent even more nuts. It must be hard for the returner to wait in ready position while not knowing when Nadal is actually going to start the serve.

Grimjack
07-12-2006, 10:09 AM
They don't enforce the foot fault rule, but rarely, so why should they enforce this one?

I would be in favor of increasing the time to 30 or 35 seconds with the proviso that it be enforced.

Persistent foot faulters should have the game forfeited for the third violation in a match.

-Robert

A foot fault isn't a code violation -- it's a fault. There's no reason to make up a bogus penalty for it. Just enforce the one that's already theoretically in place. Over the line = fault.

It's a shame tennis won't enforce it. To get called for a footfault very often, you have to either have a reputation as an ******* among the officials (Hewitt), or have killed a linesman with your serve at some point (Edberg).

arnz
07-12-2006, 03:07 PM
You have I believe 30 secs to serve from the end of the last point. I believe the first penalty is a warning. After that, not sure.

I think its from the time the score is called by the umpire

pound cat
07-12-2006, 04:02 PM
No one knows the rule. What is the rule? Where does one find it? Could some find poster take it upon him/her self to find it somewhere and post it here ...we would all be eternally grateful and will promise you 2 tickets, best seat in the stadium, at the USO all week.

jackson vile
07-12-2006, 06:50 PM
This is very undo attention to Nadal here when there are many pros that do much much more.



You have people dribling the ball forever or retossing again and again.


If anything needs to change right now it is the injury breaks that are total BS.


People are just hater and don't want Nadal winning, when many other players are taking even longer on all points.


And don't get me started and the Sharapova BS


But no let's worry about Nadal, we don't want Roger having a challenge, oh no:rolleyes:

marcl65
07-13-2006, 07:44 AM
People are just hater and don't want Nadal winning, when many other players are taking even longer on all points.
Who? Mary Pierce? Please name these players and provide articles that support these assertions. For every one that you find, I'll bet I can find a dozen about Pierce and Nadal.

Sorry, but I just find the above "hater" comment to be the lamest remark. The guy plays slow. He takes a long time to get set up. Did you see Agassi sitting impatiently waiting for Nadal to get ready? Did you see Jarkko Nieminen (or was it Irakli Labadze?) complain to the chair ump about the time Nadal takes? Did you hear the broadcasters talk about the time he takes between points? It's an issue. Now how big an issue is something that's debatable. If you feel that there are bigger issues...well that's your opinion. But please don't say that the players, chair umps, broadcasters, and viewers are all talking about it because they just ~love~ Roger Federer. That's absurd.

Yes, I can't stand to listen to Sharapova (or the Williams sisters for that matter.) And yes, the injury breaks are getting ridiculous (and Pierce, probably the biggest offender, has been blasted for it). BUT, there is NO rule on shrieking, Pierce and her ilk are abusing (NOT breaking) the injury timeout rule. There IS a rule on time taken between points. This isn't a Federer issue, I'm pretty sure this rule was in place long before he came on the scene.

psp2
07-13-2006, 07:58 AM
29. CONTINUOUS PLAY (OLD 29 & 30)

As a principle, play should be continuous, from the time the match starts
(when the first service of the match is put in play) until the match finishes.
a. Between points, a maximum of twenty (20) seconds is allowed.
When the players change ends at the end of a game, a maximum of
ninety (90) seconds are allowed. However, after the first game of
each set and during a tie-break game, play shall be continuous and
the players shall change ends without a rest.

psp2
07-13-2006, 08:02 AM
i would interpret the rule as follows: it's 20 seconds from the moment the previous point is over and when the next point is started (the actual serve).

ubel
07-13-2006, 08:38 AM
29. CONTINUOUS PLAY (OLD 29 & 30)

As a principle, play should be continuous, from the time the match starts
(when the first service of the match is put in play) until the match finishes.
a. Between points, a maximum of twenty (20) seconds is allowed.
When the players change ends at the end of a game, a maximum of
ninety (90) seconds are allowed. However, after the first game of
each set and during a tie-break game, play shall be continuous and
the players shall change ends without a rest.
timed him a couple of times and he's got it down like you wouldn't believe. 5 times in a row he's come within three tenths of a second from 20 seconds, exactly, and that's including waiting for the ball boys to throw him balls. The guy's got either a ridiculously accurate clock in his mind, or he's a robot.

jackson vile
07-13-2006, 09:07 AM
i would interpret the rule as follows: it's 20 seconds from the moment the previous point is over and when the next point is started (the actual serve).


I thought it more of from the time use came to the service line, I don't think it is right to count getting a towle and and especially not waiting for the balls boys as those two times can really very.

They should start the time after you either get balls.

alienhamster
07-13-2006, 09:27 AM
I don't think that's entirely true. I think it was in last year's USOpen that L. Hewitt got repeated foot faults called against him in one of the later rounds. I remember him being extremely upset over it.

25-30 seconds sounds fair to me. I have a feeling that if it goes on long enough some tourney will eventually set a standard and tell Nadal beforehand that they're not going to put up with long delays between points. There seems to be no shortage of players or commentators that are annoyed with it. I was listening to the matches on the Wimbly Radio site and heard the commentators talk about timing Nadal but I never heard what his max time was. Regardless, I think it would be in Nadal's best interest to try to generally speed up his play...it would be better if he does it on his own than if it's forced on him. Well, oddly enough, before Nadal played Hewitt (I think) at the Stella Artois this year, the chair DID grab Nadal on court right before the match and told him he needed to "speed things up today" or something like that. Nadal was visibly p!ssed about this, and it didn't seem to change too much of his serving rhythm. The chair should have made good on the threat.

I'm all for a timer clock. It adds a little more suspense to the matches. (I also feel like Sharapova needs it too, sometimes. As well as the Shreikometer.)

psp2
07-13-2006, 09:28 AM
I thought it more of from the time use came to the service line, I don't think it is right to count getting a towle and and especially not waiting for the balls boys as those two times can really very.

They should start the time after you either get balls.

i disagree. one COULD take a long time toweling off (on purpose). 99% of the time, the ball kids have their arms up with balls ready to go immediately after the previous point.

i think my interpretation is correct. when the previous point is officially over (ie., CU calls the score), the clock should start. whatever the player does following the called score should be done within 20 seconds up to the point of actual service for the next point.

alienhamster
07-13-2006, 09:28 AM
I thought it more of from the time use came to the service line, I don't think it is right to count getting a towle and and especially not waiting for the balls boys as those two times can really very.

They should start the time after you either get balls. The clock starts as soon as the chair calls out the score of the previous point.

jamus30
07-13-2006, 09:45 AM
25 seconds is a long time. I just think that players don't like to wait. I don't think any of us do. And if Nadal is takes too much time, I believe the chair umpire warns him. How long has this rule been in effect? Back in the day, when tennis players dressed like they were having tea. I don't think anybody was breathing too hard. Maybe tennis should adapt to the physical intensity of sports these days. As if that will happen.

And maybe they should stop making the worst line calls of the year at tennis's most prestigious event. It must be something in those strawberries and cream. :mrgreen:

jackson vile
07-13-2006, 03:59 PM
i disagree. one COULD take a long time toweling off (on purpose). 99% of the time, the ball kids have their arms up with balls ready to go immediately after the previous point.

i think my interpretation is correct. when the previous point is officially over (ie., CU calls the score), the clock should start. whatever the player does following the called score should be done within 20 seconds up to the point of actual service for the next point.


I understand what you are saying, at the very least it should be balls in your hand first then clock starts and you can towle off, then we are both happy.

jackson vile
07-13-2006, 04:00 PM
25 seconds is a long time. I just think that players don't like to wait. I don't think any of us do. And if Nadal is takes too much time, I believe the chair umpire warns him. How long has this rule been in effect? Back in the day, when tennis players dressed like they were having tea. I don't think anybody was breathing too hard. Maybe tennis should adapt to the physical intensity of sports these days. As if that will happen.

And maybe they should stop making the worst line calls of the year at tennis's most prestigious event. It must be something in those strawberries and cream. :mrgreen:


I like it when they go slower, it helps me get just that much more set and an even better read.

Also I think that if the player does not complain it should be a non issue.

cuddles26
07-13-2006, 04:04 PM
He definitely gets alot of leighway he does not deserve to get, and others dont get neither. The ATP wants him on top and winning everything bad and bend over backwards to help him do that. This also explains his ******** draw at Wimbledon.

jackson vile
07-13-2006, 04:09 PM
He definitely gets alot of leighway he does not deserve to get, and others dont get neither. The ATP wants him on top and winning everything bad and bend over backwards to help him do that. This also explains his ******** draw at Wimbledon.



Wasn't all the players that went to finals and semifinals previously all on Nadal's side:confused:


Heck he was not even supposed to be able to play anyone at all on that surface.

Marat Safinator
07-13-2006, 04:20 PM
the guy gets exhausted, so he takes longer than he should which is cheating.

cuddles26
07-13-2006, 04:26 PM
Wasn't all the players that went to finals and semifinals previously all on Nadal's side:confused:


Heck he was not even supposed to be able to play anyone at all on that surface.

Well if you think Nadal's opponents were tougher then the other half you are entitled your opinion. I would rather play Nieminen in the quarters then Ancic in the quarters on grass anyday, or I would rather play Labadze in the 4th round then Berdych or Djokovic in the 4th round anyday, and I would rather play a British qualifier in the 1st round then Gasquet who had just won a small tournament on grass as well.

jackson vile
07-13-2006, 05:19 PM
Well if you think Nadal's opponents were tougher then the other half you are entitled your opinion. I would rather play Nieminen in the quarters then Ancic in the quarters on grass anyday, or I would rather play Labadze in the 4th round then Berdych or Djokovic in the 4th round anyday, and I would rather play a British qualifier in the 1st round then Gasquet who had just won a small tournament on grass as well.


I thought Gasquet has a losing record for this year as he was doing so poorly.

When did Ancic, Berdych, or Djokovic make it to the finals? How many slams do they have? Same for Richard.

Hewitt won queens right?

I don't know I guess you are right I am just out of it:rolleyes:

alfa164164
07-14-2006, 05:32 AM
Isn't the returner supposed to play at the server's pace more or less?
I think this is where the problem may be. Obviously Nadal can take the full 25 seconds when he is serving (and he shouldn't go over it), but when receiving serve he needs to play at the server's pace.

psp2
07-14-2006, 05:56 AM
Isn't the returner supposed to play at the server's pace more or less?
I think this is where the problem may be. Obviously Nadal can take the full 25 seconds when he is serving (and he shouldn't go over it), but when receiving serve he needs to play at the server's pace.

yes.... the receiver should play to a reasonable server's pace. the rules says TWENTY seconds not twenty-five.