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View Full Version : What's the name for this 'literary' device...?


armand
07-26-2006, 09:42 AM
One person creates an adversarial situation, but after they've gotten beat at their own 'argument', they play the victim. I thought it was the Red Herring, but it doesn't seem to be it.

Little help?

North
07-26-2006, 11:02 AM
One person creates an adversarial situation, but after they've gotten beat at their own 'argument', they play the victim. I thought it was the Red Herring, but it doesn't seem to be it.

Little help?

Don't know what literary device it might be but it sounds like a description of borderline personality disorder, which I happened to read recently.

alienhamster
07-26-2006, 11:05 AM
One person creates an adversarial situation, but after they've gotten beat at their own 'argument', they play the victim. I thought it was the Red Herring, but it doesn't seem to be it.

Little help? I'm not sure I know exactly what you're asking. Can you give a specific example? There may not be a "literary" name for this--maybe a rhetorical one?

It sounds like that dude is "backpedalling" to me, but I'm not sure what you mean by "play the victim." Do you mean he is being a martyr?

Red Herring = when someone leaves a blatant/obvious element as a solution to distract you from the more hidden, actual solution

Andres
07-26-2006, 11:06 AM
I'd like to call it "Walter" :mrgreen:

35ft6
07-26-2006, 07:19 PM
One person creates an adversarial situation, but after they've gotten beat at their own 'argument', they play the victim. I thought it was the Red Herring, but it doesn't seem to be it. Look online for a list of fallacies (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html). What you're describing doesn't really fit any of the fallacies I know of off the top of my head, though. Definitely not a red herring.

OrangeOne
07-26-2006, 07:24 PM
I'd like to call it "Walter" :mrgreen:

And that's the laugh-out-loud-funniest thing I've read in ages. Well done, I needed that :)

nViATi
07-26-2006, 08:35 PM
One person creates an adversarial situation, but after they've gotten beat at their own 'argument', they play the victim. I thought it was the Red Herring, but it doesn't seem to be it.

Little help?
Not sure what it's called but a few people on TW do it! :evil:

armand
07-26-2006, 08:59 PM
My mind is slow today. Fine, it's especially slow today.
I guess 'Literary device' wasn't the correct term because this is more psychological than literature-y. It's someone just playing the victim when they are in fact the aggressor. Let's say Eusebio hits an overhead smash and it hits his opponent in the face. But then Eusebio acts as if he's the victim by perhaps saying that the opponent was in the way, or he deliberately wanted to get hit. And Eusebio carries on to say that he's so upset, that he's the one who had the worst experience of anyone in this incident.
And finally, when the dust settles, he apologizes to the ends of the Earth, leaving the door open for the victim by saying "If you never want to forgive me and play ever again, I understand and wouldn't blame you".
This last part is important because it attempts to make the victim feel bad if they chose not to forgive, and it's also a lie because they actually wouldn't be ok if they were never forgiven, never played with again.

Andres Guazzelli, Walter? I don't get it, please fill me in.

And 35'6, thanks for that link, I've bookmarked that sucka!

Andres
07-26-2006, 09:41 PM
And that's the laugh-out-loud-funniest thing I've read in ages. Well done, I needed that :)
Thanks. that's what I do.
By the way, it's $100 for the show.

Andres
07-26-2006, 09:43 PM
Andres Guazzelli, Walter? I don't get it, please fill me in.

What's to get? That's my name for it... Walter. :mrgreen:

yoga
07-26-2006, 10:12 PM
Don't know what literary device it might be but it sounds like a description of borderline personality disorder, which I happened to read recently. indeed. tony soprano's mother was like that. during one shrink session, dr. melfi told tony that his mother got this thing, the name exactly, borderline personality disorder

Spindarella
07-26-2006, 10:14 PM
I'm pretty sure there is no term for that exact type of situation, but it can be classified as an act of covert aggression. They are just manipulating the situation.

The aggressor could use many different defense mechanisms:

Denial: They would not admit that they did anything wrong.

Selective Inattention: They would just play dumb

Rationalization: Saying, "I was just smashing the ball and you jumped in the way"

Guilt-tripping: Pretty self-explanatory

Playing the Victim: Acting like the opponent did somehow wronged him by getting hit by the ball

Vilifying the Victim: Used in conjunction with playing the victim (this is the closest thing to the term you are looking for that I can think of) Making it seem like he is only responding to aggression from the real victim.

There are others defense mechanisms, but I don't feel like listing them. I hope this helped some?

Kaptain Karl
07-26-2006, 10:25 PM
I think you're thinking of "Passive-aggressive."

- KK

armand
07-27-2006, 05:48 AM
indeed. tony soprano's mother was like that. during one shrink session, dr. melfi told tony that his mother got this thing, the name exactly, borderline personality disorderAny idea what episode?

Spindarella, thanks for the list! Please continue.

KK: I wish!

OrangeOne
07-27-2006, 05:59 AM
Thanks. that's what I do.
By the way, it's $100 for the show.

Only $100? Cool, I would have tipped double that, let alone bought the ticket :)

Andres
07-27-2006, 06:37 AM
Only $100? Cool, I would have tipped double that, let alone bought the ticket :)
Not needed. $100 is my cache.
You can use checks or PayPal, it's fine by me.
Contact my secretary. ;)

Kaptain Karl
07-27-2006, 07:10 AM
adely - I was serious.

Psychologists describe aggression as either "aggressive-aggressive" or "passive-aggressive." The behavior you describe seems to fit the P-A mold pretty well.

- KK

armand
07-27-2006, 07:38 AM
adely - I was serious.

Psychologists describe aggression as either "aggressive-aggressive" or "passive-aggressive." The behavior you describe seems to fit the P-A mold pretty well.

- KKWell, I was only asking/describing this 'tactic' that this person employs, not actually the person. I wish I could attach the label 'passive' on them(yeah, I know it's only the term. Semantics!). Anyhow, thanks for the help.

P.S. Any freakin' clue as to what GuaZzzzzelli and Orange are going on about?:cool:

Bagumbawalla
07-27-2006, 08:11 AM
Adely,

Possibly "playing the martyr" is what you are searching for.

B

XFactorer
07-27-2006, 08:23 AM
I think it's a form of "appeal to the emotions"... a red herring is a logical fallacy term, not really a literary device.

That's my two-cents!

DJ Edwards
07-27-2006, 09:21 AM
Excellent question, I couldn't find the appropriate logical fallacy from the list, but I think what you're describing is a form of "negating the opposite conclusion/denying the counter-conclusion" something like that. In it the speaker seeks to prove an assumption by denying its negation. Definitely not a literary device, maybe a figure of rhetoric, certainly a logical phallacy at any rate.

Dedans Penthouse
07-27-2006, 09:32 AM
. It's someone just playing the victim when they are in fact the aggressor.
A wolf in sheep's clothing.

yoga
07-28-2006, 01:08 AM
Any idea what episode? season 1, episode 12 or 13, i am not sure
(http://www.tv.com/the-sopranos/i-dream-of-jeannie-cusamano/episode/26460/reviews.html?review_id=112778)

Bolt
07-28-2006, 10:53 AM
I think it is called a NoBadMojoism.