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View Full Version : Pro "RACQUETS" and "GEAR"!!!!!


chess9
07-29-2006, 07:43 AM
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_123rock

So, how much "GEAR" is your hero on? My buddy, a powerlifter, says most of the top athletes are on something. According to Charlie Francis the top athletes, the ones who are publicly anti-doping, are at the top because they are taking drugs! The above article is an eye-opener and has some very interesting comments about the lurid dance played out by the athletes, athletic federations, countries (like Canada, China, the USA), and even the laboratories. If 50 samples test positive for a banned drug do you throw out all 50? :) Apparently, the answer is yes!

Meanwhile, one of the guys I've been following for several years, Landis of Phonak, is accused of steroid abuse. However, given the history of lab mistakes, the abysmal record of UCI and WADA, and the politics involved in the Tour de France (remember L'Equipe?) I wouldn't be surprised if Landis is actually INNOCENT!!!

So, is the ITF just a little better at keeping a lid on the drug use in our sport, i.e., by not reporting it? Or, are tennis players just much cleaner than sprinters, swimmers, cyclists, weight lifters, shot putters, etc.?

If you believe my buddy, a lot of tennis players are on drugs. Someone tell me it ain't so!!!

-Robert

maverick66
07-29-2006, 08:12 AM
tennis unfortunatly is not clean. all the top players are taking something. lower end tour players are starting to take stuff to. the itf will throw out a name of a player every now and then to say that they are testing. normally its a no name or a guy thats on his way out or from argentina for some reason they like them.

travlerajm
07-29-2006, 08:23 AM
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_123rock

So, how much "GEAR" is your hero on? My buddy, a powerlifter, says most of the top athletes are on something. According to Charlie Francis the top athletes, the ones who are publicly anti-doping, are at the top because they are taking drugs! The above article is an eye-opener and has some very interesting comments about the lurid dance played out by the athletes, athletic federations, countries (like Canada, China, the USA), and even the laboratories. If 50 samples test positive for a banned drug do you throw out all 50? :) Apparently, the answer is yes!

Meanwhile, one of the guys I've been following for several years, Landis of Phonak, is accused of steroid abuse. However, given the history of lab mistakes, the abysmal record of UCI and WADA, and the politics involved in the Tour de France (remember L'Equipe?) I wouldn't be surprised if Landis is actually INNOCENT!!!

So, is the ITF just a little better at keeping a lid on the drug use in our sport, i.e., by not reporting it? Or, are tennis players just much cleaner than sprinters, swimmers, cyclists, weight lifters, shot putters, etc.?

If you believe my buddy, a lot of tennis players are on drugs. Someone tell me it ain't so!!!

-Robert


I believe tennis IS generally cleaner than sports like cycling, track and field, football, and baseball, because performance is more correlated with skill than power or endurance.

The Argentinian clay-courters seem to break the rules more often, because the clay-court game is not so skill-oriented. It's more about endurance.

chess9
07-29-2006, 08:24 AM
tennis unfortunatly is not clean. all the top players are taking something. lower end tour players are starting to take stuff to. the itf will throw out a name of a player every now and then to say that they are testing. normally its a no name or a guy thats on his way out or from argentina for some reason they like them.

I have this gnawing fear in my gut that you are right. So much of this is political, so much is perception, control of the sport....There is no longer any room for dewy-eyed romantics in sports I fear....

-Robert

chess9
07-29-2006, 08:26 AM
I believe tennis IS generally cleaner than sports like cycling, track and field, football, and baseball, because performance is more correlated with skill than power or endurance.

The Argentinian clay-courters seem to break the rules more often, because the clay-court game is not so skill-oriented. It's more about endurance.

Is that an impression, or do you have some personal knowledge you could share? How do you know the ITF isn't simply controlling what they publicize to such a high degree that the sport APPEARS clean? And, why would tennis players be cleaner than other athletes? The money is quite good even if you are ranked 50th.

-Robert

travlerajm
07-29-2006, 10:10 AM
Is that an impression, or do you have some personal knowledge you could share? How do you know the ITF isn't simply controlling what they publicize to such a high degree that the sport APPEARS clean? And, why would tennis players be cleaner than other athletes? The money is quite good even if you are ranked 50th.

-Robert

My impression is based on logic, not personal knowledge. The logic goes like this: the "dirtiness" of a sport is proportional to the how tight the correlation is between doping and resultant increase in performance.

In cycling, there is a direct and obvious correlation. Performance in endurance cycling racing is directly correlated to how much oxygen you can get from your blood.

In tennis, the correlation is muddier. In some matches on faster surfaces, fitness is not much of a factor. Will doping help you hit a more accurate forehand or serve? It seems to me that in tennis, the reward for doping is so miniscule that the risk would outweigh the reward for most athletes.

And I don't buy a conspiracy therory that the sport of tennis is covering things up. I mean, if they were, why would a guy with a toothpick physique like Petr Korda get busted?

NoBadMojo
07-29-2006, 10:21 AM
You guys are kidding me..tennis more than ever is a fitness grind..a running game rather than a hitting game, and he who can be on the court the longest whilst tiring less has a huge advantage and he who can recover the soonest and in time for the next round has a huge advantage..they take variations of steroids and chemicals like Petr Korda did which dont do anything to increase body mass but aid in stamina and recovery.
One of my very good friends is a ATP/WTA trainer and a former professional cyclist..he knows his stuff

chess9
07-29-2006, 10:29 AM
You guys are kidding me..tennis more than ever is a fitness grind..a running game rather than a hitting game, and he who can be on the court the longest whilst tiring less has a huge advantage and he who can recover the soonest and in time for the next round has a huge advantage..they take variations of steroids and chemicals like Petr Korda did which dont do anything to increase body mass but aid in stamina and recovery.
One of my very good friends is a ATP/WTA trainer and a former professional cyclist..he knows his stuff

Yes, I understand insulin is one of the choices for recovery. Not much chance of getting caught, either. Seems to me that blood doping, or hematocrit doping, would be beneficial as well. Steroid use would probably be of some benefit as well, inasmuch as recovery is slightly enhanced, and when combined with lifting will make you stronger.

-Robert

chess9
07-29-2006, 10:34 AM
My impression is based on logic, not personal knowledge. The logic goes like this: the "dirtiness" of a sport is proportional to the how tight the correlation is between doping and resultant increase in performance.

In cycling, there is a direct and obvious correlation. Performance in endurance cycling racing is directly correlated to how much oxygen you can get from your blood.

In tennis, the correlation is muddier. In some matches on faster surfaces, fitness is not much of a factor. Will doping help you hit a more accurate forehand or serve? It seems to me that in tennis, the reward for doping is so miniscule that the risk would outweigh the reward for most athletes.

And I don't buy a conspiracy therory that the sport of tennis is covering things up. I mean, if they were, why would a guy with a toothpick physique like Petr Korda get busted?

Did you read the article? It's principally about sprinters, but if you know anything about how the sports federations, including major league baseball, have hidden their heads in the clouds, you'd realize how protective they are of their sports. Do you really think UCI knew nothing about doping in the '80's? Five Dutch cyclists died of EPO use! (take EPO and get dehydrated and you are in a world of hurt) Drug use in cycling has been pervasive for 30 years and the UCI did NOTHING. Major League baseball is a joke. Ditto for the NFL and NBA. Testing is a farce to give the sports legitimacy. It isn't a conspiracy, it's garden variety prevarication!

Oh, and tennis players would benefit from several of the popular sports drugs that are banned. See my comment above.

-Robert

travlerajm
07-29-2006, 10:48 AM
Did you read the article? It's principally about sprinters, but if you know anything about how the sports federations, including major league baseball, have hidden their heads in the clouds, you'd realize how protective they are of their sports. Do you really think UCI knew nothing about doping in the '80's? Five Dutch cyclists died of EPO use! (take EPO and get dehydrated and you are in a world of hurt) Drug use in cycling has been pervasive for 30 years and the UCI did NOTHING. Major League baseball is a joke. Ditto for the NFL and NBA. Testing is a farce to give the sports legitimacy. It isn't a conspiracy, it's garden variety prevarication!

Oh, and tennis players would benefit from several of the popular sports drugs that are banned. See my comment above.

-Robert

Sorry, I didn't read the article. But my contention is not that tennis is clean. I'm just saying that I believe it is cleaner than sports like cycling, track and field, and baseball.

I sincerely believe that the NFL has mostly fixed it's steroid problem - it's not entirely clean, but it's done a good job in the last few years of cleansing itself, since 10 years ago it was almost 100% "dirty." Baseball is slowly following suit, and would be nearly 100% clean by now if Bud Selig had any guts.

And I'm not arguing that performance enhancers can't help tennis players. But I contend that the advantages are not as extreme in tennis as they are in other sports where skills are deemphasized.

If tennis is so dirty, then why not golf. Wouldn't it be

travlerajm
07-29-2006, 10:56 AM
I just read the article. There's no new info in there if you've been following the Victor Conte cases.

Victor Conte has single-handedly engineered most of the top American sprinters for the decade. And his story, unlike Marion Jones', doesn't seem to have holes in it. Sadly, Conte is not the first scientist to engineer athletes in the lab. He's just the best. The only reason he got caught is because he wanted to get caught so he could tell the world about his "achievements" to feed his uberego.

chess9
07-29-2006, 10:56 AM
Sorry, I didn't read the article. But my contention is not that tennis is clean. I'm just saying that I believe it is cleaner than sports like cycling, track and field, and baseball.

I sincerely believe that the NFL has mostly fixed it's steroid problem - it's not entirely clean, but it's done a good job in the last few years of cleansing itself, since 10 years ago it was almost 100% "dirty." Baseball is slowly following suit, and would be nearly 100% clean by now if Bud Selig had any guts.

And I'm not arguing that performance enhancers can't help tennis players. But I contend that the advantages are not as extreme in tennis as they are in other sports where skills are deemphasized.

If tennis is so dirty, then why not golf. Wouldn't it be

Well, I pretty much agreed with you right up to the end! :) Golf is not to be confused with anything athletic. :) But, really, the man who develops a drug to help me hit a one iron will probably get my money and lot of others' money. :)

Btw, I don't think tennis is very dirty either, but it isn't as clean as many believe, I SUSPECT. (I have zero evidence, but logic tells me many players would benefit from the available drugs.)

-Robert

TrueAce
07-29-2006, 09:05 PM
I play tennis with a former pro football player in the Canadian league and also had a few years with the Bears. He said something similar to roids are everywhere in football and pro sports etc. He also pointed out that the most marketable players tests somehow get thrown out as the article had basically said...

chess9
07-29-2006, 09:54 PM
I play tennis with a former pro football player in the Canadian league and also had a few years with the Bears. He said something similar to roids are everywhere in football and pro sports etc. He also pointed out that the most marketable players tests somehow get thrown out as the article had basically said...

Gear use in the '80's was rampant in the NFL. No testing was being done. You could have just about announced it on the evening news and nothing would have been done about it. The guys might be a bit cleaner now, but how would we know as testing is a farce?

This is just like politics. Perception is reality. If the public thinks the ITF is doing a good job at testing, and very few tennis players are being "outed" by the ITF, the conclusion most of the public will draw is that tennis is clean. That's the PERCEPTION the ITF wants the public to have. If the ITF found 50 dirty urine samples from Wimbledon players do you think they'd be rushing that news to the public? I would hope so, but from what I've read of the past history of these sports federations I have serious doubts.

-Robert

chess9
07-30-2006, 12:31 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/SPORT/07/29/gatlin.doping.reut/index.html

Yet another "champion" of the anti-drug campaign tests positive for steroid use.

We could probably post a new "drugged athlete of the week" each week. :(

-Robert

onkystomper
08-02-2006, 12:59 PM
Just a point to people who are saying that doping in tennis is not so prevelant because it is not an endurance sport.

Not all doping and banned substances / chemicals effect how your body regenerates or helps it go for longer. Many substances are stimulants for the mind. If people are seeing / reacting to the ball even tenths of a second sooner through use of banned substances it is a huge advantage.

chess9
08-04-2006, 09:58 AM
http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/wada_stats.html

Here is an article by Dan Empfield about drug use with an emphasis on the sport of triathlon. This should be required reading for those who think this drug testing system isn't broken. Would you believe, for instance, that golfers have a higher instance of adverse analytical findings (AAFs) with the World Antidoping Agency (WADA) than do triathletes or track athletes? Well, read on, oh ye of too much faith.

As the poster above notes, there are many drugs that could help an athlete in a given sport. How about beta blockers to calm the nerves of a archery athtlete? Yup, it happens.

-Robert

PBODY99
08-05-2006, 04:41 AM
Landis,hmmm. I don't know that any steriod could help you overnight, & you would use it when the first thing off of the bike is a urine sample. Just an anti-PA attack by the French.