My Junior is cowed by the yelling

[fuggywater]

We moved from a country where the kids played politely to where the U12´s use psychological attacks.
Two very good players, in particular, use line calling and self-prompting as weapons.
(So, they scream ´double fault!´as loud and nastily as they can followed by a ´come on!´as loud and nasty as they can, same with unforced errors and so on.)
I have finally dumped our coach who said to ´ignore it´ after a year of watching my son get worse and worse.
I told my two sons to practice yelling and yelling back (but only if the opponent is rude) and, after a few days, my little one says it is kind of satisfying.
What do you think? Any other suggestions? Any literature written on the subject?:confused:
fuggy

[randomname]

dont take my word for it, but Im almost positive that you can ask them to stop, and if they dont you can call a hinderance every time they do it after.

[fuggywater]

3 problems.
First, the kids are supposed to yell out the line calls clearly.
Second, prompting onesself is not technically illegal.
Thirdly, they KNOW I can call the judge after my son is all rattled and probably crying. The opponent acts all innocent, as do his parents, and hint my son is trying to cheat.
And the opponent doesn´t mind stopping his yelling at all because by that time my son probably can´t get his great game on again.
(Also, these kids like to act like they are your kids´best friend before the game and yelling starts so that your child is hurt that his new best friend is yelling at him).
These are Eastern Europeans kids if anyone is wondering.
fuggy

[andyroddick's mojo]

I only yell on hard earned points. that's the only time when someone should express emotion on the court. when you lose a point, you can always do that face where you close your eyes and look at the sky thinking "why?!". at least that's what federer does. keeping emotions locked up is very important because then it'll affect your mental game.

[Supernatural_Serve]

This problem is in your son's mind.

For whatever reason, the words coming out of his opponents mouth take on greater significance to him emotionally than the balls his opponents are hitting to him.

He should focus on the game not the words.

We don't play tennis with opponents to form an emotional interraction or connection with them, we play tennis for fun, development, and to win.

He should resist seeing his opponent as someone that should care about his feelings or concerns and see them as an opponent, no more no less.

The only time I let my opponent bother me, is when they cheat (some days I handle it better than other days). The rest is of the gamesmanship stuff is white noise, background, immaterial.

It would be good for your son to evolve toward that. It will help him probably deal with the future, adults in the work place, etc. too

[Mike Danger]

yeah, I agree, I dont mean to sound rude, but sounds like you kids need some self esteem building, and less babying. Try to tell them to get mad instead of cry(if they are). After all hes a boy not a girl.
theres this song by Faith No More called "Be Aggresive" go down load it, and put it in his MP3 player.

[donnyz89]

work on his game... dont teach him to yell back. if the other kid is yelling so loud its making that much of a difference, i think the line judges can hear it. just ask a nearby judge to watch for it.

[jimiforpres]

When someone is confronted with a problem, they will always revert back to their basic instinct which is to fight or run. Your sons probably want to run, but they obviously can't, so they just fold and hope it ends soon. They need to have a fighter's mentality. They should take there opponent's yelling as a challenge, because if they beat the little *****s, it will just be that much more satisfying. Personally, if my opponent is trying to get in my head, I try to take it personally and use that to pump me up. Sometimes getting angry can help.

[Tim Set Match]

They need to have a fighter's mentality. They should take there opponent's yelling as a challenge, because if they beat the little *****s, it will just be that much more satisfying. Personally, if my opponent is trying to get in my head, I try to take it personally and use that to pump me up. Sometimes getting angry can help.

I think this is good advice. Supernatural_Serve also said some good stuff.

People play a lot of baseball in my town; they say it's good for kids because it's a character building sport. Tennis is even more character building; it will show you how you deal under pressure, and how you deal with pressure on the court is how you will deal with it in life..!

He can choose to deal with the pressure by yelling back, ignoring it, or thinking of it as a challenge.... the method he uses doesn't matter. What matters is that he starts fighting!

[Alexandros]

There doesn't seem to be any inherent rule breaking, just a bit of gamesmanship. You need to teach your kid to grow some balls and basically get over it. Some excessively loud calls and prompting is not a personal attack, nor is his opponent going to jump over the net and attack him with their racket - there is no need to be intimidated by it.

[HyperHorse]

Get your son to take up a martial art.

[tennis_hand]

Just ask him to shout as well when he is playing against these sort of players. but remind him that he should only do this against them, but not always.

Shouting does boost the confidence. It is the gray area of the rules, so remember to exploit it when others are doing the same against you.

[Phil]

There doesn't seem to be any inherent rule breaking, just a bit of gamesmanship. You need to teach your kid to grow some balls and basically get over it. Some excessively loud calls and prompting is not a personal attack, nor is his opponent going to jump over the net and attack him with their racket - there is no need to be intimidated by it.

I agree with this...

The coach whom you FIRED was right. You should re-hire him instead of babying your kid and blaming the problem on the coach. The best players learn to ignore this garbage.

[fuggywater]

:D
It´s true mojo, when they first started playing I worked to get them to put emotion aside, but it is still an issue.
Yes, supernaturalserve, the problem is in his mind. He needs a sports psychologist maybe?
Hi Mike, you are not rude, I really like the Aggression song idea, my little one loves rock n roll. My kid is really aggressive at home, here fights like a tiger to win--it is quite annoying that he is resisting turning that aggresion onto his opponents.
Hi Donny, here the tournament organizer is the only line judge and he is usually in the clubhouse.
Hi jimforpres, we talked a long time about what you said about getting angry, fighter´s mentality, how what the opponent is doing is so wrong that it should help my child focus.
Timset is right, too.
Hi hyper, I like the martial arts idea, his judo teacher was much better in the last country we were in. The class is too sloppy here.
We will read over all your posts and discuss them.
Thanks,
fuggy

[spot]

I think that your son is afraid of losing. When someone starts talking- all he can think about is what it will be like to lose to that person. I would have him play against someone that is clearly better than him. Someone he has virtually no chance to beat. Once he can enjoy the game even when he doesnt' have a realistic chance of winning then he will not care what the other side is saying during a match

[Supernatural_Serve]

:D
Yes, supernaturalserve, the problem is in his mind. He needs a sports psychologist maybe?
Everybody can use a psychologist in their life (if the expert is very good and the person is open to them).

So, its a very personal decision to involve others.

If this behavior and emotional response that he is exhibiting manifests itself in other areas of life, i.e. wishing others (who he has no control or power over) would behave differently (cut with the gamesmanship), and then being emotionally crushed when they don't, then its kind of a red flag.

Yet, if its simply a tennis thing, maybe he can use tennis as a vehicle to overcome this and learn something about dealing with others.

I like some of the recommendations made by others which kind of encouraged him to grow some balls, fight fire with fire, get angry, motivated, and focused, etc. But then, he's still emotionally trapped and being played by his opponent.

For his opponent is still pressing a button and playing him like a fiddle.

What would be even more powerful as a response would be for him to become indifferent to, unmoved by, and unaffected by the gamesmanship of others, in other words, he's the fiddle player and the gamey opponent is getting played instead by an unflappable man of indifferent yet steely nerves.

[fuggywater]

I agree with this...

The coach whom you FIRED was right. You should re-hire him instead of babying your kid and blaming the problem on the coach. The best players learn to ignore this garbage.


Well, my son was a top player in the country we were in previously, where kids were polite.

I thought my son would get used to the yelling, too, but after a year, he obviously needs some mental training of some kind. Saying ´ignore the yelling attacks´ won´t cut it for me anymore.

But I don´t think this coach/trainer is trying to toughen up my son, I think he does not have any interest or he would attend a tournament once in a while.


We are still discussing a lot your comments and ideas.
One of my son´s problems with developing a fighting instinct is that tennis was super-easy for him at ages 7-9. It seemed that at age 10+ the other kids caught up in coordination making the matches much tougher.
He still thinks of tennis as ´fun´instead of a fight perhaps.


fuggy

[fuggywater]

Everybody can use a psychologist in their life (if the expert is very good and the person is open to them).

What would be even more powerful as a response would be for him to become indifferent to, unmoved by, and unaffected by the gamesmanship of others, in other words, he's the fiddle player and the gamey opponent is getting played instead by an unflappable man of indifferent yet steely nerves.


That would be fabulous. I always point out to my child how Federer often has a great "stupid" look on his face while waiting for the serve. He looks like my dog waiting for me to throw the ball. Expectant and totally in the moment. With no other thought in his mind. He can put all the pressures on him aside.
Would be nice to get there!

fuggy

[kevhen]

Have him work on his serve so he doesn't doublefault so much. It's only going to get more competitive and in some ways less fun so don't push your son too much if he just enjoys playing the game in a less stressful environment. Help him work on improving his game without putting him in so many matches with his peers at this stage.

[LuckyR]

I guess I would have a different spin of advice. Namely that your sons are displaying fear. Whether it is fear of losing, or more probably fear of losing face, it's still fear. The opposite of fear is anger. They need to be prepped with a couple pieces of information. 1- the above fact, 2- that these displays are a sign of weakness by their opponents (obviously the other guys are pretty nervous about winning on their tennis skills alone, therefore the gamesmanship), 3- because of this weakness, their opponents are very vulnerable to psychological collapse, if they start losing while using this garbage, what do they have left to fight with? Nothing. If your sons can suck it up and win a few key points, next thing those guys will be throwing racquets and we all know who loses the match when you start seeing that sort of behavior. 4- Hopefully once you sons have a few wins under their belt they will obtain a killer instinct, where they will smell weakness a mile away and they will bud into little Terminators revelling in helping brats implode on the court while they display little to no emotion outside (think Borg), meanwhile it's a gigantic, knowing smirk inside.

What country are you from and are you currently residing?

[chess9]

I've been playing in England recently and this sort of thing rarely happens there. In fact, I played a guy who played college tennis in the U.S. and we were playing doubles and he started some smack and I started smack back and we both laughed and that was the end of it. This is school yard stuff that should be more funny than serious. Even in high school I would just laugh at the guys who did and said weird stuff, but I played high school in the 50's when it wasn't as prevalent.

Anyway, I agree that your son needs to ignore most of it. Wait til a parent starts yelling at him, and that WILL happen in a lot of places. He should try to see the humor in it and not take tennis so seriously. Is he going to Stanford on a tennis scholarship? Is he planning on playing for England? I didn't think so. Bring it into perspective. It's just a bloody game.

-Robert

[Supernatural_Serve]

IThe opposite of fear is anger.I disagree with that, but agree with the rest of your post.

The opposite of fear is fearlessness. Being fearless does not require a component of anger.

It requires focus, determination, emotional steadiness, and an inner calm in the face of threats or perceived threats.

Anger is a tricky thing, it can be a path to fearlessness, but for many its wild and untamed and leads to agitation, irritation, tightness and anxiety which then leads to poor play instead of focused/steady play.

Sometimes when I am angry I play better, but usually I get tight and have a tendency to overswing. So, the winners are more impressive but the errors can mount also.


fuggywater:

Maybe it is time for your son to read Timothy W. Gallwey's the " The Inner Game of Tennis" or his follow up book which is even better "Inner Tennis, Playing the Game"

[tennis-n-sc]

Does your son want to play tennis? Are you pushing him to play? Are you pushing too hard? Does he play because you want him to play? Seems like he should be having fun but is miserable. I don't think it is the change in country as much as a possible change in your son's indecision about what he wants to do. Maybe he would do better in a team sport where all the pressure is not on him to perform. Don't know, just some things to think about. Sometimes it is better for the parent to just bow out totally and let the player (child) and coach do their thing.

[LuckyR]

I disagree with that, but agree with the rest of your post.

The opposite of fear is fearlessness. Being fearless does not require a component of anger.

It requires focus, determination, emotional steadiness, and an inner calm in the face of threats or perceived threats.

Anger is a tricky thing, it can be a path to fearlessness, but for many its wild and untamed and leads to agitation, irritation, tightness and anxiety which then leads to poor play instead of focused/steady play.

Sometimes when I am angry I play better, but usually I get tight and have a tendency to overswing. So, the winners are more impressive but the errors can mount also.



Well, I agree that: fearlessness is a great solution to fear and I agree that anger can have issues from a practical sense when trying to use it in a competitive sense. But I stand by my original statement that you quoted.

[spot]

The guys who get the most angry out there are the ones who are afraid of losing the most. When you have no fear you are calm and collected. Some people need the anger because thats the only way they can focus, but they always fall apart when things start to go against them.

[chess9]

The guys who get the most angry out there are the ones who are afraid of losing the most. When you have no fear you are calm and collected. Some people need the anger because thats the only way they can focus, but they always fall apart when things start to go against them.

IMHO, and this is probably worth warm spit, any negative emotions are harmful both to your game and to YOU.

Be happy, don't worry! Why not?

-Robert

[Mike Danger]

be aggressive, some "come on!!!'s" and some smashing overheads stuff like that. Kick Ass

[Trinity TC]

Get him to google "Jackie Robinson" and have him read about the taunts, racism, etc. that Robinson had to endure all through his military and MLB career. It might help your son put the bad behavior of others into perspective. Life isn't fair at times but humans still manage to endure.:cool: