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Fuzzy Wuzzy Balls
08-28-2006, 08:51 PM
Looks like he wanted to the give the Donnay one last chance

insideoutAce
08-28-2006, 08:56 PM
right

right

tennisfanatic
08-28-2006, 09:06 PM
i think it's still flexpoint.

katarddx
08-28-2006, 09:10 PM
unbelievable....

Fuzzy Wuzzy Balls
08-28-2006, 09:10 PM
Yeah....I think tighter strings

jura
08-29-2006, 12:05 AM
:confused:
What are you talking about? Against Pavel he was still using his old Head racket as always.

Regulator
08-29-2006, 12:30 AM
Guys someone fill me in I missed the match and the highlight reel sucked????

TaintedWisdom
08-29-2006, 01:44 AM
Well the noob here (me) watched the whole thing heheh (thank you usa network).

He did switch his racquet. Also it look identical to the rest of his 6+ racquets which he collected at the end of the game (as always, all with the blue overgrip, same color, flexpoint style etc.)

Now, as why did he switch? He clearly said it in the end (when they were asking him questions).
He said something about switching racquet before since it was night and the weather etc. But he then switch (towards the last match, in the last set) to a higher tension for more control he said.

anyways, probably the match will be uploaded by someone.

I did not pay much mind to everyword he said but I know I'm not to far from. hehe.

Note: One of the greatest match I seen this summer. Both these guys were going at it, pavel has a backhand thats simply beyond anything I ever seen. Also his serves arent that bad. Andre, well what can I say the guy is a legend.

chess9
08-29-2006, 03:38 AM
Yes, I'm pretty sure he went with a tighter string job as he was having very slight control problems. By the last set, he was on target. :)

Great match and congrats to Andre'. Only 6 more to go. :)

-Robert

Lindsay
08-29-2006, 04:59 AM
he did not switch racquets completely. he asked his coach to get his other racquets for him. i'm sure they had just finished being restrung. probably higher tension. i'm sure it was the same racquet he was playing with, just with a different tension.

BiGGieStuFF
08-29-2006, 05:17 AM
He said that he thinks the humidity from the rain and the fact that he usually strings his rackets for night matches about a pound or 2 lower may have affected the control of the rackets he had as it was hitting loose. He requested to have rackets with a higher tension be brought out.

bluegrasser
08-29-2006, 05:22 AM
I saw it different, the first thing I noticed when AA started playing was the beam was thicker than normal, I thought maybe it was a painted instinct, then when Cahill brought the next batch the beams were thinner, more like his ' Radical.'

basil J
08-29-2006, 06:24 AM
I agree, the first batch of racquets looked quite thick, especially in the hoop area and from certain angles, you could see that the frame was smooth with no indent for a flexpoint hole anywhere. The last batch that came out looked thinner, but at midnight, it could have been my eyes playing tricks on me. A lot of my buddies use the FP radical and Andre's paint on his is a different Tone. More Red and less orange. I read somewhere on this forum that his frames are all customized through some shop in NY city anyways. It may be a Head only in name for all we know.

bluegrasser
08-29-2006, 06:53 AM
I agree, the first batch of racquets looked quite thick, especially in the hoop area and from certain angles, you could see that the frame was smooth with no indent for a flexpoint hole anywhere. The last batch that came out looked thinner, but at midnight, it could have been my eyes playing tricks on me. A lot of my buddies use the FP radical and Andre's paint on his is a different Tone. More Red and less orange. I read somewhere on this forum that his frames are all customized through some shop in NY city anyways. It may be a Head only in name for all we know.

believe me, it wasn't your eyes, the beam was thick just look at the ' Agassi Pic thread ' on kids days, the last pics on the thread, and look at how thick the beam is on his racquet, the same frame AA came out with last night until the switcheroo..

bluegrasser
08-29-2006, 07:06 AM
Go to ' ESPN Tennis " and look at the pic of Agassi on the home page, then tell me that's a ' Head Radical ' beam...

bsandy
08-29-2006, 08:07 AM
I've got this on my HD DVR . . . I'm going to go back and look, tonight.

Lindsay
08-29-2006, 09:11 AM
after a little research on G E T T Y, i saw his paintjob switch. But I don't know how to post pics from that site. So here's what I did- I searched Andre Agassi, and on page 1, in the 2nd pic, there is a obvious white stripe below the blacked out Flexpoint part, and on page 4, the pic on the far right, second line, frame looks thicker, and there is no white stripe.

warreng
08-29-2006, 09:22 AM
after a little research on G E T T Y, i saw his paintjob switch. But I don't know how to post pics from that site. So here's what I did- I searched Andre Agassi, and on page 1, in the 2nd pic, there is a obvious white stripe below the blacked out Flexpoint part, and on page 4, the pic on the far right, second line, frame looks thicker, and there is no white stripe.

Wow. I did exactly that. It's really telling... :(

Something's fishy.... :D

tommytom11
08-29-2006, 12:01 PM
believe me, it wasn't your eyes, the beam was thick just look at the ' Agassi Pic thread ' on kids days, the last pics on the thread, and look at how thick the beam is on his racquet, the same frame AA came out with last night until the switcheroo..


you're right. he was playing with a new racquet and then switched to his usual Radical.

gb93433
08-29-2006, 01:11 PM
It looked to me like Agassi used about five or six racquets by the number he had strung on one of the racquet handles when he left the court.

chaz_233
08-29-2006, 02:43 PM
It looks like either they dropped the Liquidmetal technology on that other racquet or they just painted over in black what would be the silver LM area. Also you can see that "Head" is painted on the side of the beam alone and it doesn't run over the front of it, which assuming that the letters are the same size, would indicate a thicker beam.

onkystomper
08-29-2006, 02:54 PM
he said clearly in the interview afterwards that he got the same rackets strung slightly tighter as he had droped tension by a lb to compensate it being a night match!

kerplunker
08-29-2006, 03:04 PM
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/71737349.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=08A8BA3C818346D04450B8516BF7C0A6

drakulie
08-29-2006, 03:06 PM
he said clearly in the interview afterwards that he got the same rackets strung slightly tighter as he had droped tension by a lb to compensate it being a night match!

Thank you!!!! He clearly said this in the interview with McEnroe immediately after the match.

So much nonsense about "switching" racquets from an instinct to a radical, to a donnay, etc. blah, blah, blah!

buder
08-29-2006, 04:06 PM
his control problem was pavel. his racquet switch gave him confidence -- it allowed him to believe he had more depth and trajectory control, which belief made all the difference. it allowed him to reboot his computer. let's face it: he was down 0-4 and pavel was on fire>Andre needed to believe his plight contained manipulable variables, so he threw a Hail Mary...and it worked.

More importantly, his racquet change granted him and us the ability to overwrite the eternal mystery of momentum with the Enlightenment myth of control. -it allowed him to find a pattern in the void or a story in the senseless, i.e., whatever works.

[yes, two pounds makes a difference> indeed, in a game of inches, it can make all the difference. but nothing makes a difference like thinking it makes a difference]

Z-Man
08-29-2006, 04:06 PM
I can't say conclusively that the beams are different, but in the pictures, they do appear a little different. It could be the camera angle. The PJs are definitely different. I believe the string pattern of the Instinct gets denser towards the middle--this could be a dead giveaway if we had better pictures. (Or Head could have drilled them just for AA.)

I should also point out that for a big match, even I have racquets strung at slightly different tensions. Surely, in a bag full of racquets AA had one or two strung tighter and one or two strung looser.

bluegrasser
08-29-2006, 04:48 PM
Thank you!!!! He clearly said this in the interview with McEnroe immediately after the match.

So much nonsense about "switching" racquets from an instinct to a radical, to a donnay, etc. blah, blah, blah!


truth - blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc... hey i'm regressing to a fifteen yr old, how about that..

drakulie
08-29-2006, 05:48 PM
truth - blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc... hey i'm regressing to a fifteen yr old, how about that..

You went from a 16 year old to a 15 year old with one post in one thread. How about that?

After you conclude all your research which could never be proven, let us know what racquet (I mean racquets) he was using against Pavel.

Z-Man
08-29-2006, 06:12 PM
I don't think we need to digress into the old Donnay/Radical/Custom Mold argument. It's a POG with the crossbar sawed off for all I care. However, there was something weird going on with the racquets. The PJs were obviously different, and there might have been a difference in the beams. I can say for certain that the racquets Darren Cahill brought him also had more wear on the bumper. I'd like to see a closeup of the racquets when he left the court. He threaded the throats through the grips, so all of the frames were right there together.

bluegrasser
08-29-2006, 08:47 PM
You went from a 16 year old to a 15 year old with one post in one thread. How about that?

After you conclude all your research which could never be proven, let us know what racquet (I mean racquets) he was using against Pavel.

I wish I was 16, at least I wished my body felt that young. BTW, no research + I hate PJ threads, just an observation.

Stringer_Steve
08-29-2006, 10:27 PM
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/71737201.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB94703C6A7EDF267E

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/71737504.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB37D81625ED337501

damasta55
08-29-2006, 10:32 PM
From your pics ^^, it looks like the first picture lacks the liquidmetal lines near the flexpoints. Its just black, while the second clearly shows the liquidmetal lines. I would say for sure that the pjs are different. As for what racquet Agassi uses, i don't know. As for whether both racquets are the same, i dk.

jmsx521
08-30-2006, 04:57 PM
Can Agassi get fined? I thought it's not legal to change to a different model.

framer
08-30-2006, 09:44 PM
Can Agassi get fined? I thought it's not legal to change to a different model.

Intriguing... I never heard of that rule that before. I play both with the Head Instinct and Radical and I can identify them both at a distance with a high degree of certainty. I remember at the start of Agassi's match that he was playing with a very thick beam Radical and it looked like an Instinct with a Radical PJ. Agassi played with the Instinct last year during the clay court season and a bit afterwards - then he went back to the Radical sometime during the early part of the hardcourt season. At first he played with an Instinct in retail colors, then later it was painted to look like the Radical. After the racquet change during his match against Pavel, it was clear he was then playing with a thinner beam racquet - a Radical. You can even see the headsize and beam width difference in the Getty pictures.

Does anyone else know about the change to a different model rule?

jmsx521
08-30-2006, 10:31 PM
Don't blow the whistle anyone to ATP. We don't want Andre disgracefully fined and disqualified from his last tournament... (and stripped away from his 2006 US Open Trophy... and banned from the [seniors'] tour for 8 years).

jmsx521
08-30-2006, 11:12 PM
http://picasaweb.google.com/james.kovachev/AgassiTrick/photo?authkey=yZ6knm7_q3-dv56H62H_1cA92YQ#4969295820900990994

BiGGieStuFF
08-31-2006, 04:23 AM
http://picasaweb.google.com/james.kovachev/AgassiTrick/photo?authkey=yZ6knm7_q3-dv56H62H_1cA92YQ#4969295820900990994

Okay I wasn't sure before but that'll do it for me. At first I could tell they were different PJ's but this one shows the width of the beam pretty well. Anyway, I didn't know there was a rule you couldn't switch to a different racket. Is there something like that? I wouldn't see the problem unless the racket is not within tour specifications or something.

PrestigeClassic
08-31-2006, 05:28 AM
No, it's quite silly to think that there has been a rule about using two legit frames from two different molds in the same match, unless the two frames were used during the same point.

travlerajm
08-31-2006, 05:35 AM
Wow. Nice catch folks. He definitely switched to a thinner beam. I wonder if he's been using both and can't decide?

Perhaps he likes the stiffer frame if his game is "on" so that he can dictate easier with flatter more penetrating shots. But if his game is a little off, he goes to the added spin and margin for error that the thinner beam offers.

It's too bad Mac didn't notice so that he could have asked him about it in the post-match interview.

jmsx521
08-31-2006, 07:59 AM
Wow. Nice catch folks. He definitely switched to a thinner beam. I wonder if he's been using both and can't decide?

Perhaps he likes the stiffer frame if his game is "on" so that he can dictate easier with flatter more penetrating shots. But if his game is a little off, he goes to the added spin and margin for error that the thinner beam offers.

It's too bad Mac didn't notice so that he could have asked him about it in the post-match interview.

With the thinner beam he could hit through the ball without fear of hitting out. His game came together right after he made the switch. Thinner = More Control & Feel. I think the 1st racket was giving him too much pop and he couldn't feel and "measure" the ball as he usually does.

Mac asked him at the end, but we all thought it was a string job change until the pictures started surfacing. And Agassi said it was a string tension change, but it was more than that. I think Agassi knew that one is not supposed to change different model frames in a match; if it was OK, then he would've said that. And didn't he feel a little uptight when he was asked that?

Yet, mine is still speculation; I was told about the rule many years ago, but haven't found it written online anywhere yet.

BiGGieStuFF
08-31-2006, 08:07 AM
Someone needs to find the rule on this. I see no reason why it wouldn't be okay to change racket models in a match. The only reason why I'd see why Agassi wouldn't say it is because he's sponsorted by Head to play with a specific racket. he's not about to say he's changed to a totally different racket with a radical paintjob.

Pistol Pete
08-31-2006, 08:10 AM
agassi did switch rackets. I am 100% sure.
The racket he used for the first 2 sets has a 3 grommet piece at the throat
the one from 4-0 down has 4 grommet piece at the throat!
he went back to old reliable
and yes he can switch to a different racket like that its not illegal

chess9
08-31-2006, 08:18 AM
Switching racquets is NOT illegal! I do it all the time.

If it were illegal, Agassi wouldn't have done it. He has more respect for the game than that.

-Robert

Rabbit
08-31-2006, 08:24 AM
I don't believe there is a rule like the one speculated on. As long as it's a legal frame, I really don't think anyone would care if a player was crazy enough to change frames mid-match. Hell, for all the USTA cared, he could have borrowed one from Pavel and played.

But wait! There's more!

The two rackets in question may have a slightly different paint scheme, but they have the same string pattern. By my count, they're both 18X19 string patterns. Wait, but isn't that the same string pattern as the stock Radical? Could it be?

I think we're looking a little too hard for little green men in the bushes. Agassi said he had his tension upped. During Wimbledon, they reported that the conditions were so slow and the balls so heavy that he dropped his tension an unheard of 7 pounds. I tend to believe the simplest answer which is he had a batch of frames strung up. Now, his frames are probably custom built by Head to a weight and flex and this may well explain the paint job differences. But to think that he went from a thicker to thinner beam to improve aerodynamics and thusly shorten the length of a groundstroke by 2 inches? Does anyone really read and not laugh at this?

PrestigeClassic
08-31-2006, 09:22 AM
Someone needs to find the rule on this. I see no reason why it wouldn't be okay to change racket models in a match. The only reason why I'd see why Agassi wouldn't say it is because he's sponsorted by Head to play with a specific racket. he's not about to say he's changed to a totally different racket with a radical paintjob.

No one needs to find a rule on this because such a rule does not exist, nor has it ever. Is there a rule that says a player must play with shoes on feet? To qualify your second statement, a racket change is not always along the rules, like when the change is done during the same point. And yes, Agassi skipped a beat when asked about it, like he might do when asked about changing to a new frame when only a new cosmetic is rolled out.

BiGGieStuFF
08-31-2006, 09:27 AM
No one needs to find a rule on this because such a rule does not exist, nor has it ever. Is there a rule that says a player must play with shoes on feet? To qualify your second statement, a racket change is not always along the rules, like when the change is done during the same point. And yes, Agassi skipped a beat when asked about it, like he might do when asked about changing to a new frame when only a new cosmetic is rolled out.

Thanks. I've never heard of such a rule and then all of a sudden I read this thread and go WTF? That would be such a dumb rule. And if a guy wants to change his racket mid-point, then more power to him. If he has enough time to run to this bag and grab a racket and still win the point, then he's damn good! :p

Thepunisher
08-31-2006, 09:55 AM
the post about him using a donnay racquet gets my vote for worst post of the year. anybody who has followed his career knows he hated that racquet and that he is using a trisys 260, most likely customized.

Z-Man
08-31-2006, 06:35 PM
I'm glad to see he started out tonight with his regular stick.

framer
08-31-2006, 09:57 PM
By my count, they're both 18X19 string patterns. Wait, but isn't that the same string pattern as the stock Radical? Could it be?


Both the Instinct and Radical have 18x19 string patterns. He started with an Instinct then switched to a Radical. Both racquets had the Radical paint scheme.

andrew_b
09-01-2006, 04:50 AM
Thanks. I've never heard of such a rule and then all of a sudden I read this thread and go WTF? That would be such a dumb rule. And if a guy wants to change his racket mid-point, then more power to him. If he has enough time to run to this bag and grab a racket and still win the point, then he's damn good! :p

Actually, there *is* a rule stating that you cannot change rackets mid-point. IIRC it's related (or the same one as) the one that says you can't play with more than one racket at a time.

play well,
Andrew

PrestigeClassic
09-01-2006, 12:19 PM
Actually, there *is* a rule stating that you cannot change rackets mid-point. IIRC it's related (or the same one as) the one that says you can't play with more than one racket at a time.

play well,
Andrew

http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_18485_original.PDF

andrew_b
09-03-2006, 11:51 AM
http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_18485_original.PDF

Thanks - I was thinking of the USTA rules...it's either a case or a ruling, can't remember which.

play well,

Andrew

Fuzzy Wuzzy Balls
09-09-2006, 05:24 PM
Can anyone Find where Agassi states that he hated the Donnay Frame?

JerodT
09-09-2006, 08:43 PM
I think we're looking a little too hard for little green men in the bushes. Agassi said he had his tension upped. During Wimbledon, they reported that the conditions were so slow and the balls so heavy that he dropped his tension an unheard of 7 pounds. I tend to believe the simplest answer which is he had a batch of frames strung up. Now, his frames are probably custom built by Head to a weight and flex and this may well explain the paint job differences. But to think that he went from a thicker to thinner beam to improve aerodynamics and thusly shorten the length of a groundstroke by 2 inches? Does anyone really read and not laugh at this?

The pics don't lie, there was definitely a frame change. The 1st frame looks like an Instinct and the 2nd a Radical. Look at how bad the PJ is on the thicker frame. It seems like his form came on when he switched to the Radical. You can even see defferences in the grommet strips on the side of the racquets. He did "skip a beat" when asked about the change. Not that hw would have been in violation of his Head deal, but that almost like TMI and after all they probably did have different tensions.

I missed him in DC at the Legg Mason but everyone told me he was hitting long and couldn't find the court. I'll search for threads, but maybe he was using the Instinct here. I only remember a pic of the busted frame but don't remember thinking it look wider than normal.