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palmerpursuit
08-30-2006, 06:44 PM
I currently play with two hands on both sides..and I feel that I have great control with two hands...does anyone else hear use a two-handed forehand???...also I play righty and on my forehand I have my left hand on the bottom and right on top and for my backhand I just keep my hands the same way..does anyone else play like this?

skuludo
08-30-2006, 07:10 PM
The Chinese female named Peng who played at the US Open. Probly playing Mauresmo.

The Prodigy
08-30-2006, 07:11 PM
That's kind of confusing. You are right handed, but your left hand is on the bottom... I assume that you right side would be your forehand? First time I've heard this... Doesn't your forehand have less power since you are generating power with your left arm?


edit (response to skuludo):
Peng has her right hand on the bottom and is a righty.

Mick
08-30-2006, 07:20 PM
The Chinese female named Peng who played at the US Open. Probly playing Mauresmo.

Actually, she played Martina Hingis this morning. Hingis eliminated Peng 4-6 6-1 6-3 (that's Peng, not Pong, the player who could return almost everything ! :))

tennis_hand
08-30-2006, 07:39 PM
you probably need 2h forehand if you are a girl or a teenager. I can't understand that if you are a grownup male.

skuludo
08-30-2006, 07:49 PM
Peng doesn't change the position of her grip at all when she hits her forehand and backhand.

One player that does change their position (like hitting two backhanders off both sides) is Jan Michelle Gambil.

Amone
08-30-2006, 08:04 PM
The Two-Handed Forehand is something I played with for a long time, and the only real reason I switched was because so many people were giving me a hard time about it, and I had gotten what I wanted out of it-- a good, flat forehand, which I actually learned to hit better with one hand during my two-handed stints.

The fact is that it tends to be more consistent, and it tends to be more powerful, in its way. There are people who say 'oh, you shouldn't use that,' but as long as you don't have to rely on the opinion of someone else (I had my High School coach to worry about, who I didn't want to argue with about it) I say go for it. For a short time, I hit the way you describe, but that didn't last long, as I was soon asked to try switching my hands, and it felt much more comfortable.

palmerpursuit
08-30-2006, 08:04 PM
The power is generated with my right hand...maybe I explained it wrong..when I am about the hit the ball with my forehand my left hand is on the bottom of the handle and my right hand in on the top of the handle but is underneath.....and on my backhand I keep my hands the same and when I am about to make contact my left hand is on the bottom of the handle(underneath)and my right hand is on the outside of the racquet at the top...

palmerpursuit
08-30-2006, 08:10 PM
Also when I slice the ball with my forehand I always use my left hand(my left hand in on the bottom of the racquet on the outside)

skuludo
08-30-2006, 08:12 PM
What you've described is the reverse of what Peng does. She has her right hand at the bottom and the left and at the top. She keeps it that way when hitting off the left and right wing.

I personaly don't play with 2 hands of both wings. 1 handed forehand and 2 handed backhand.

palmerpursuit
08-30-2006, 08:15 PM
I just saw pictures of Fabrice Santoro's two-hander and he is the opposite of what I do...are there any pro's that use the two-hander like me?

skuludo
08-30-2006, 08:22 PM
I think there is. I remember a british tennis site that use to post pictures showing frame by frame of pros hitting forehands.

The pros name that has your type of grip might have been Brian something. Can't remember. The site has been gone for 3 or 4 years.

naturalgut
08-30-2006, 08:27 PM
I hit with a two handed forehand slice on about 20% of shots(Same grip and stroke as Santoro), releasing the grip with my right hand and following through with my left. I only started using the stroke three years ago after a bursitis injury in my shoulder meant that I could not swing a single handed forehand for two months. I've found the double handed forehand slice very useful for creating unusual spins and angles, as well as disguising dropshots and chipping approaches.

Triple S
08-30-2006, 10:41 PM
I don't use a two-handed forehand but the #1 player on my team does. He doesn't have the most powerful shots or an amazing serve but he has the best control and makes you run around like crazy.

supersmash
08-31-2006, 12:21 AM
Yeah, I've seen a guy from CalPoly play with 2h on both sides. 4.5 in So Cal. Sometimes I mess around with a 2h....it's fun.

w00gy
08-31-2006, 01:30 AM
Don't get scared you guys but there is a male pro that uses 2hands on both sides!

Who this obscurity is....

Reamon Sluiter, currently in the 2nd round of the US Open.

ATP Profile: http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/?playersearch=sluiter

As you can see he's a top 100 dutch professional player. Nowhere close to Schalken but he's ok.

The story behind this player:
He picked up a racket when he was young, 5 or 6 years old. A players frame his dad used to play with. It was ofcourse too heavy leaving with a 2handed grip. When he was old and strong enough to switch to a onehanded FH he got so used to playing with 2 hands on both sides he refused. No matter what the coaches said he kept playing like that. He got to the top op of the juniors in holland and of course by then it was too late to switch.

I think it looks kind of gay.... Reminds me of Monica Seles everytime i see him play :D

Cheers

Punisha
08-31-2006, 03:26 AM
if it works use it but i dont understand why u would sacrifice the ability to absolutley crank a ball with a one hander?

ucd_ace
08-31-2006, 04:45 AM
you probably need 2h forehand if you are a girl or a teenager. I can't understand that if you are a grownup male.

Same with a two-handed backhand. ;)

naturalgut
08-31-2006, 06:16 AM
Another thing that I have noticed with my Santoro-like double handed forehand slice is that my opponent usually sees the ball as an inviting opportunity to bludgeon the ball for a winner. This has held true for every player that I have attempted to hit a double handed forehand against.

kevhen
08-31-2006, 07:11 AM
I have hit with this lady who was an NCAA finalist her senior year in college and she hits with 2 hands on both sides and hit with good power, placement, and consistency. She beat me 4 and 3 when we played. She can hit a one handed forehand when stretched but has more control using two. She is like a Monica Seles and is a 4.5 men's level so yes a two-handed topspin forehand can be lethal.

Bungalo Bill
08-31-2006, 08:03 AM
I currently play with two hands on both sides..and I feel that I have great control with two hands...does anyone else hear use a two-handed forehand???...also I play righty and on my forehand I have my left hand on the bottom and right on top and for my backhand I just keep my hands the same way..does anyone else play like this?

TennisMastery can best answer this question and help you improve it.

Golden Retriever
08-31-2006, 08:20 AM
In my experience, two hands always provide better control than one, power, I would say almost equal. But two handed forhand limits my reach by too much so it is not worth it for me. I however absolutely love my 2handed backhand.

I think if you can use 2hands on both sides without swtiching hands, like Monica Seles, you might have what it takes. If you have to switch hands, like JM Gambill or me, then it is probably not worth it. Switching hands simply takes too long to be viable especially for 4.5 or above.

Tennismastery
08-31-2006, 11:19 AM
I currently play with two hands on both sides..and I feel that I have great control with two hands...does anyone else hear use a two-handed forehand???...also I play righty and on my forehand I have my left hand on the bottom and right on top and for my backhand I just keep my hands the same way..does anyone else play like this?

Use of two hands on both sides is still not seen in large numbers...but, is growing in both the juniors and the pros. As a pro who uses the two-handed forehand as both a learning tool as well as recognizing that the use of two hands on both sides does not prohibit a player from reaching world-class status, I have seen it's value over the past 18 years I have taught the stroke.

Here is an interesting point: On the women's tour, there are nearly an equal number of two-handed forehand players in the top 100 as there are one-handed backhand players. (At last count, it was 6 Two-handed forehanders, 8one-handed backhanders.)

Granted, a one-handed anything can generate greater whip and, hence, racquet head speed. However, if such speed can't be controlled, it is essentially useless on the tennis court. We see this same concept on the golf course and the baseball fields. Control is the key especially in tennis and golf.

Thus, players who do use two-hands tend to have more stability and repetitive swing components, or are able to create a more reliable swing pattern...especially early on.

In my book, I teach all three 'two-handed forehand' methods; Seles' version (which is the more dominant one), Gambil/Sluiter's which the hands switch (basically a backhand on each side) and Gene Mayer (from the 70's) who kept his dominant hand as the top hand.

We find players develop certain aspects of the 'modern' forehand faster with the two-handed forehand. But, it isn't for everyone and we usually explore the one-hander quickly unless a player is really liking and finding the two-handed forehand a weapon for them.

If interested, look up my articles at www.tennisone.com on the two-handed forehand. My articles have been translated too, into Dutch and German for those countries tennis magazines as well.

Hope this helps.

Bungalo Bill
08-31-2006, 12:01 PM
Use of two hands on both sides is still not seen in large numbers...but, is growing in both the juniors and the pros. As a pro who uses the two-handed forehand as both a learning tool as well as recognizing that the use of two hands on both sides does not prohibit a player from reaching world-class status, I have seen it's value over the past 18 years I have taught the stroke.

Here is an interesting point: On the women's tour, there are nearly an equal number of two-handed forehand players in the top 100 as there are one-handed backhand players. (At last count, it was 6 Two-handed forehanders, 8one-handed backhanders.)

Granted, a one-handed anything can generate greater whip and, hence, racquet head speed. However, if such speed can't be controlled, it is essentially useless on the tennis court. We see this same concept on the golf course and the baseball fields. Control is the key especially in tennis and golf.

Thus, players who do use two-hands tend to have more stability and repetitive swing components, or are able to create a more reliable swing pattern...especially early on.

In my book, I teach all three 'two-handed forehand' methods; Seles' version (which is the more dominant one), Gambil/Sluiter's which the hands switch (basically a backhand on each side) and Gene Mayer (from the 70's) who kept his dominant hand as the top hand.

We find players develop certain aspects of the 'modern' forehand faster with the two-handed forehand. But, it isn't for everyone and we usually explore the one-hander quickly unless a player is really liking and finding the two-handed forehand a weapon for them.

If interested, look up my articles at www.tennisone.com (http://www.tennisone.com) on the two-handed forehand. My articles have been translated too, into Dutch and German for those countries tennis magazines as well.

Hope this helps.

Dave,

What is your take on moving one from a twohanded forehand to a onehanded forehand over time or when they decide to do so? Is it complicated, a complete undoing?

Tennismastery
08-31-2006, 03:18 PM
Dave,

What is your take on moving one from a twohanded forehand to a onehanded forehand over time or when they decide to do so? Is it complicated, a complete undoing?

Good question, Bill.

Moving to a one-handed forehand after first learning with two is extrodinarily easy. It is not the kind of frustration that we often see when there is a grip change or a specific swing path change. Because the swing path, grip and overall stroke is nearly identical to a modern one-handed forehand, those who prefer the feel and confidence of one hand easily move into it.

The benefits of learning the two are as I have mentioned in other posts on the subject: Namely using the body more effectively instead of only swinging with the arm as some beginners tend to do; maintaining stability and a natural low-to-high swing path; good footwork since the two-hander does require better position in terms of distance to the ball on contact.

If we look at most top players, especially the men, we see the take back nearly always with two-hands on the racquet...some release sooner, others later. Thus, the concept of going with two hands at first helps many players gain several advanced patterns very early in their development...without a lot of difficulty.

I do believe that most good pros can teach one-handed forehands as successfully; however, the point that I have found is that in especially large groups as we have in many of our academy programs, we have found that while many can indeed learn a good one handed swing pattern early on, some can't. The two-handed forehand is like a great 'guiding' tool for players to gain a feel for the topspin element as well as the kinetic chain and angular momentum that the top forehands exhibit. In addition, for many (and I can't tell you how many e-mails I have gotten from players around the world who feel very comfortable and confident with the two-handed forehand!) the two-handed forehand just works great for them. Consider Bartoli, Peng, Santoro and others at least competing with top world-class players. It doesn't seem to prevent them at least from reaching that level. (Of course, I know people could argue that might each of them have been better with a one-hander...but that would be equivilant to saying that any two-handed backhand player might be better one-handed. We will never know!)

This is probably a lot more info than you asked for...however, I believe that many players and pros alike, are either skeptical or just unknowing anything about the stroke. As you know, I have spent a great number of years teaching both strokes and can at least attest to the value of the two-hander as well as the conventional one-hander.

Thanks for asking about it!

Dave

palmerpursuit
08-31-2006, 10:38 PM
thanks...I'll take a look at those articles.

Mike Cottrill
09-01-2006, 06:32 AM
Tennismastery,
Excellent stuff.
I was watching a formal ~100 atp pro friend of mine warm up and he was hitting two hands on the both sides.. I asked him laughing if he teaches that shot, and he responded seriously with “two-hands help with stability and repetitive swing components...” Once he started his match, he went back to his usual one handed forehand and backhand. Maybe he was watching Gambil or he read your book. BTW, he did not have any problems hitting it. So, this must be true: “Because the swing path, grip and overall stroke is nearly identical to a modern one-handed forehand, those who prefer the feel and confidence of one hand easily move into it.”
Nice read.

tennus
09-01-2006, 07:14 AM
Use of two hands on both sides is still not seen in large numbers...but, is growing in both the juniors and the pros.

Yes, I have seen a number of recent National Junior Tournaments in Australia and whilst a two handed forehand in the boys is rare it seems very common for the elite girls, even in the very young age groups.

deluxe
09-01-2006, 08:08 AM
Tennismastery,
Excellent stuff.
I was watching a formal ~100 atp pro friend of mine warm up and he was hitting two hands on the both sides.. I asked him laughing if he teaches that shot, and he responded seriously with “two-hands help with stability and repetitive swing components...” Once he started his match, he went back to his usual one handed forehand and backhand. Maybe he was watching Gambil or he read your book. BTW, he did not have any problems hitting it. So, this must be true: “Because the swing path, grip and overall stroke is nearly identical to a modern one-handed forehand, those who prefer the feel and confidence of one hand easily move into it.”
Nice read.

I heard one of the commentators at Wimbledon claim that many of the pros mimic Santoro's forehand in practice for a bit of fun...

Xevoius
09-01-2006, 08:56 AM
I got ripped a new rear-end by that Cal Poly guy someone mentioned previously in this thread that hit two-handed off both wings.

Once he figured my serve out, he was hitting serve return winners off both wings. I won the first two games of the first set and then he showed me why he was an Orange Bowl finalist.

The sad part is that he looks like he is 12 yrs old.

Ouch.