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View Full Version : New Serves. Please rip them apart.


tpduke112
09-06-2006, 06:49 PM
Alright, I hit a few more serves today. Diff friend. Still didnt want to film. As you can hear, I didnt feel good about these. The last one was the only one I hit well. Anyway, give me all the feedback ya got and I will do my best to correct the stuff you say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQa9CYbljG8



Previous Serves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXaAs1NSbQM

wEstSidE.cAmpEr
09-06-2006, 10:53 PM
WOW! You look a lot like me except you're darker and you don't serve as well.

andyroddick's mojo
09-06-2006, 11:03 PM
your serve looks pretty good but we can't tell if it goes in or not. You have a pretty good motion except that I think when you start your motion, you bring your racket and ball holding arm too high up to your chest, because then when you start to toss the ball you start with a bent elbow. Try and toss the ball with your arm fully extended but only releasing at the very top.

tpduke112
09-07-2006, 03:51 AM
WOW! You look a lot like me except you're darker and you don't serve as well.
lol, good advice.....

bertrevert
09-07-2006, 04:22 AM
I'd say the ball toss should perhaps be a bit further out in front of you, not so directly above you, so that your body weight will launch you into the court and put some power into the serve. Nice clean rhythm.

tpduke112
09-07-2006, 06:14 AM
I'd say the ball toss should perhaps be a bit further out in front of you, not so directly above you, so that your body weight will launch you into the court and put some power into the serve. Nice clean rhythm.
Alright, Ive gotta work on that. I have been told that before. On the serves that I amp up a bit, I can def. tell that I tossed it a bit more out in front. It is just hard to be as consistent. Time and practice.

HyperHorse
09-07-2006, 06:26 AM
Your serve looks fine to me, but it just looks to me that your stance is a bit narrow, have your feet a little bit more apart...
Rock your feet more Becker style to get that weight transfer going...
Toss the ball a bit higher & more forward and just RIP IT!!!!
oh and before you start your swing, hold your racquet lower... This way the muscles/tendons in your arm wont tense up as much...

jackson vile
09-07-2006, 09:12 AM
WOW! You look a lot like me except you're darker and you don't serve as well.
:rolleyes: where do all these morons keep coming from:rolleyes:

Bungalo Bill
09-07-2006, 11:12 AM
:rolleyes: where do all these morons keep coming from:rolleyes:

and here I thought you were the biggest moron on this site. They must be coming from around where you live.

drakulie
09-07-2006, 11:39 AM
Your serve looks good. As someone else pointed out, work on keeping your tossing arms straight. Thanks for sharing.

kevhen
09-07-2006, 11:58 AM
The motion and all looks good.

jackson vile
09-07-2006, 01:09 PM
and here I thought you were the biggest moron on this site. They must be coming from around where you live.


Wow you are that old with kids and this is how you spend your free time?

You live a sad life LOL, and you defend somone making a coment like that, figures.

Sounds like what happend to you and keeps happening to you BB is called Karma! You got and get what you have coming to you, enjoy;)

kevhen
09-07-2006, 01:12 PM
Go find a private room you two if you just want to flame each other. Are potatoes not doing so well in Idaho this year?

tpduke112
09-07-2006, 01:59 PM
Go find a private room you two if you just want to flame each other. Are potatoes not doing so well in Idaho this year?
No joke, this is a thread looking for feedback on a serve....

Trinity TC
09-07-2006, 02:47 PM
Serve is looking good. Don't be afraid to take a bigger arc on the loop in your backswing when you start tossing the ball further in to the court. It will help you maintain your smooth rhythm and will also help with body control on the more aggressive toss and serve. Also, go for a good high net clearance because you will probably get more downward bite on the ball with the forward toss.:cool:

How is the rest of your game? :)

tpduke112
09-07-2006, 02:50 PM
Serve is looking good. Don't be afraid to take a bigger arc on the loop in your backswing when you start tossing the ball further in to the court. It will help you maintain your smooth rhythm and will also help with body control on the more aggressive toss and serve. Also, go for a good high net clearance because you will probably get more downward bite on the ball with the forward toss.:cool:

How is the rest of your game? :)
alot better than my serve. I wish I could get groundies footage, but then there would have to be a third person there. I want to do that soon though.

Trinity TC
09-07-2006, 03:32 PM
Groundies better than the serve? Woohoo! You've got the potential to have a real weapon with your serve...and its a lefty serve too. Generally, you can clock an extra 15-20 mph on the radar gun with a more forward toss. The biggest adjustment is getting used to the higher trajectory and net clearance.

I won't go into the physics of it but the gains in mph also mean gains in the few rotations of spin you naturally put on the ball. You get more spin effect from each rotation of the ball because the ball compresses and distorts more. Aerodynamics also change with the changes in ball speed and shape.

To sum it up...more natural speed and consistency with the forward toss. Start with a maximum of five minutes when you first start clicking with this serve. It's easy to get too pumped up and throw your arm out.:cool:

tpduke112
09-07-2006, 05:05 PM
Groundies better than the serve? Woohoo! You've got the potential to have a real weapon with your serve...and its a lefty serve too. Generally, you can clock an extra 15-20 mph on the radar gun with a more forward toss. The biggest adjustment is getting used to the higher trajectory and net clearance.

I won't go into the physics of it but the gains in mph also mean gains in the few rotations of spin you naturally put on the ball. You get more spin effect from each rotation of the ball because the ball compresses and distorts more. Aerodynamics also change with the changes in ball speed and shape.

To sum it up...more natural speed and consistency with the forward toss. Start with a maximum of five minutes when you first start clicking with this serve. It's easy to get too pumped up and throw your arm out.:cool:
Thanks man!
Yea, my groundies are alot better than my serve because I work on them alot me. Me and my friends rarely work on serves (I hit about 5 times a week, but I dont play very much). For the past 3 or 4 days, I have been working on my serve some because I feel that it is holding my game back and keeping me from realizing my potential. So you think I have good enough mechanics to turn my serve into something?

siber222000
09-07-2006, 05:07 PM
Wow you are that old with kids and this is how you spend your free time?

You live a sad life LOL, and you defend somone making a coment like that, figures.

Sounds like what happend to you and keeps happening to you BB is called Karma! You got and get what you have coming to you, enjoy;)
lol.. and reason ur talkin about his life is because u have nothing to say??? :confused: come on now, lets not be childish :mrgreen:

scez
09-07-2006, 06:54 PM
nice serve, and sorry not to contribute, but I like your other videos, drinking, and still drinking :p

Bungalo Bill
09-08-2006, 08:23 AM
Alright, I hit a few more serves today. Diff friend. Still didnt want to film. As you can hear, I didnt feel good about these. The last one was the only one I hit well. Anyway, give me all the feedback ya got and I will do my best to correct the stuff you say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQa9CYbljG8



Previous Serves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXaAs1NSbQM

I would like to see more power coming from your lower body. I would like to see more effort coming from your upper body rotation. You are simply tapping the ball in my opinion and are not fully gathering and using your efforts and energy into the ball.

Let's talk about your toss and the movement of your head. Although you toss in front of you, on many of the serves your head moves back under the ball (at least from the camera angle I am viewing). This means you are not always hitting the ball with it in front of you. This can contribute to an arm that has to slow down as you may sometimes lose your eye contact with the ball. This also can contribute to an inconsistent serve. Some are great when you don't move so much under the ball and some are not so great when you do move under the ball.

The non-dominant arm is especially important to really help relax the shoulder region of the hitting arm - you have to trust the relaxation. The entire hitting arm/shoulder needs to be as loose as a noodle and be ready to easily and effortlessly release and come forward as the racquet is accelerating into the ball. The moment you tighten up, the fast your arm will slow down before contact. Bringing the non-dominant arm into the chest area will help accelerate and allow the shoulder to let loose and throw the racquet into the ball.

Check out Roddick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnfAxF5a8aE&mode=related&search=

Check out Federer's head (the best you can) when he makes contact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGAurQTPFa0

Also, the more you can incorporate your hips, legs, and feet into your serve the more you will be able to use your shoulder rotation, arm extension, and energy into the ball. Someday, you will be able to do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvC33gSTSR4

Check out Safins serve, lots of hip stretch, legs, and toe push-off. It is a very active and powerful serve from the ground up. take a close look at his arm/shoulder region. It really is propelled by his shoulder rotation and has a lot of relaxation in it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT4q3i5sPhY&mode=related&search=

jackson vile
09-08-2006, 09:33 AM
I would like to see more power coming from your lower body. I would like to see more effort coming from your upper body rotation. You are simply tapping the ball in my opinion and are not fully gathering and using your efforts and energy into the ball.

Let's talk about your toss and the movement of your head. Although you toss in front of you, on many of the serves your head moves back under the ball (at least from the camera angle I am viewing). This means you are not always hitting the ball with it in front of you. This can contribute to an arm that has to slow down as you may sometimes lose your eye contact with the ball. This also can contribute to an inconsistent serve. Some are great when you don't move so much under the ball and some are not so great when you do move under the ball.

The non-dominant arm is especially important to really help relax the shoulder region of the hitting arm - you have to trust the relaxation. The entire hitting arm/shoulder needs to be as loose as a noodle and be ready to easily and effortlessly release and come forward as the racquet is accelerating into the ball. The moment you tighten up, the fast your arm will slow down before contact. Bringing the non-dominant arm into the chest area will help accelerate and allow the shoulder to let loose and throw the racquet into the ball.

Check out Roddick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnfAxF5a8aE&mode=related&search=

Check out Federer's head (the best you can) when he makes contact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGAurQTPFa0

Also, the more you can incorporate your hips, legs, and feet into your serve the more you will be able to use your shoulder rotation, arm extension, and energy into the ball. Someday, you will be able to do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvC33gSTSR4

Check out Safins serve, lots of hip stretch, legs, and toe push-off. It is a very active and powerful serve from the ground up. take a close look at his arm/shoulder region. It really is propelled by his shoulder rotation and has a lot of relaxation in it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT4q3i5sPhY&mode=related&search=



Wrong again!

Did you even watch his serve? Notice the racket is brought up to low and that the racket arm never fully drops or relaxes?

He is bending the knees and stretching the hip (bowing)


When you go to drop the racket you are keeping the elbow of the racket arm down instead of letting it come up and back.

Look here for how to properly drop the racket and swing/pull upwards into the ball. It is frame by frame:http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step12-4stroke.html

This is robbing you of all your energy you are attempting to put into your serve.

Here is Roddick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnfAxF5a8aE&mode=related&search=

You need to worry about your timing and technique, so you do tempo training where you are staying as relaxed as possbile and not trying to hit the ball hard, just getting the motion and timing correct.

You will be very very supised how much more power you will get


And here is a serving drill to get your trophy stance down
http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step12-drillgraceful.html

Bungalo Bill
09-08-2006, 09:50 AM
Wrong again!

Did you even watch his serve? Notice the racket is brought up to low and that the racket arm never fully drops or relaxes?

He is bending the knees and stretching the hip (bowing)

Yes, we know that. The focus is on his toss position and his head. lol


When you go to drop the racket you are keeping the elbow of the racket arm down instead of letting it come up and back.

Huh?

Look here for how to properly drop the racket and swing/pull upwards into the ball. It is frame by frame:http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step12-4stroke.html

This is robbing you of all your energy you are attempting to put into your serve.

If he relaxed his shoulder more, used his non-dominant arm in the serve, he can get a better "Stretch" in the shoulder region and allow the arm to propel over a long distance allowing him to gain acceleration. Geeez, man, serving 101.

You need to worry about your timing and technique, so you do tempo training where you are staying as relaxed as possbile and not trying to hit the ball hard, just getting the motion and timing correct.

No kidding. The toss is critical and his head position in relation to the toss for timing. Again, serving 101.

Isn't that what I said? Relaxing? LOL

jackson vile
09-08-2006, 10:05 AM
Yes, we know that. The focus is on his toss position and his head. lol




Huh?



If he relaxed his shoulder more, used his non-dominant arm in the serve, he can get a better "Stretch" in the shoulder region and allow the arm to propel over a long distance allowing him to gain acceleration. Geeez, man, serving 101.



No kidding. The toss is critical and his head position in relation to the toss for timing. Again, serving 101.

Isn't that what I said? Relaxing? LOL


Wrong!

The problem is the racket arm alone, it is too far behind the rest of the movements to even worry about them.


Everything is good at this stage but the racket arm is not being allowed to fallow the proper path.

Everthing else looks very nice and even better than the first video which was not too long ago.

He will serving amazingly in no time as long as he corrects what actually needs to be corrected.

Bungalo Bill
09-08-2006, 10:06 AM
Wrong!

The problem is the racket arm alone, it is too far behind the rest of the movements to even worry about them.


Everything is good at this stage but the racket arm is not being allowed to fallow the proper path.

Everthing else looks very nice and even better than the first video which was not too long ago.

He will serving amazingly in no time as long as he corrects what actually needs to be corrected.

LOL! Okay. Man, I really got under your skin. LOL

To the poster, as I said, work on really relaxing that shoulder area. It is too tight. Use the non-dominant arm to help accelerate that loose hitting arm. You definetly need more hip/leg/torso effort in your serve.

Watch your head that it doesn't come under the ball too much or your arm will stall a bit or slow down.

Trinity TC
09-08-2006, 12:23 PM
...So you think I have good enough mechanics to turn my serve into something?
Yep. You've got a solid foundation. Give yourself some credit and don't forget that you are doing a lot of things right. Get more aggressive (toss it waaay into the court until you can't almost can't stand it!) with the placement of the toss. Sorry about the basketball analogy but the first serve should feel more like taking off from the foul line and doing a slam dunk as opposed to standing under the hoop and laying the ball in.

You've got a good kinesthetic sense so tossing the ball further into the court will naturally create a cascade of changes:

1) Your head will automatically be in the right position relative to the toss
2) It will seem natural to take a bigger loop on the backswing in order to balance out the extra body lean that you get.
3) Your upper body and lower body will become more involved in the whole motion so you will gain a major increase in both linear and angular momentum in your swing.
4) Everybody will say, "good, you've corrected this and that...yadda, yadda, yadda" ...when all you've done is adjusted your ball toss and started to use your athletic ability a little more.

Take another video and I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised number of changes that happened as a result of simply tossing the ball into the court another 14-18 inches. From there we can do some tweaking and maybe start working on service placement precision.

One more thing, aim for the baseline when you are starting out. If things go according to plan, the ball should start dipping and catch the service line after the first half dozen attempts. Don't overdo it and hurt your shoulder...ooops, that's two things.:p

Bungalo Bill
09-08-2006, 12:26 PM
Yep. You've got a solid foundation. Give yourself some credit and don't forget that you are doing a lot of things right. Get more aggressive (toss it waaay into the court until you can't almost can't stand it!) with the placement of the toss. Sorry about the basketball analogy but the first serve should feel more like taking off from the foul line and doing a slam dunk as opposed to standing under the hoop and laying the ball in.

You've got a good kinesthetic sense so tossing the ball further into the court will naturally create a cascade of changes:

1) Your head will automatically be in the right position relative to the toss
2) It will seem natural to take a bigger loop on the backswing in order to balance out the extra body lean that you get.
3) Your upper body and lower body will become more involved in the whole motion so you will gain a major increase in both linear and angular momentum in your swing.
4) Everybody will say, "good, you've corrected this and that...yadda, yadda, yadda" ...when all you've done is adjusted your ball toss and started to use your athletic ability a little more.

Take another video and I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised number of changes that happened as a result of simply tossing the ball into the court another 14-18 inches. From there we can do some tweaking and maybe start working on service placement precision.

One more thing, aim for the baseline when you are starting out. If things go according to plan, the ball should start dipping and catch the service line after the first half dozen attempts. Don't overdo it and hurt your shoulder...ooops, that's two things.:p

Very good advice Trinity TC. Looks like you took all that was said and creatively encouraged the player and summarized the advice given quite well. Look forward to your future tips and suggestions.

Trinity TC
09-08-2006, 12:40 PM
Thanks Bill, I enjoy reading your posts because they have added to my knowledge base (I've been stealing your stuff)...and are entertaining too.:D

tpduke112
09-08-2006, 02:37 PM
Yep. You've got a solid foundation. Give yourself some credit and don't forget that you are doing a lot of things right. Get more aggressive (toss it waaay into the court until you can't almost can't stand it!) with the placement of the toss. Sorry about the basketball analogy but the first serve should feel more like taking off from the foul line and doing a slam dunk as opposed to standing under the hoop and laying the ball in.

You've got a good kinesthetic sense so tossing the ball further into the court will naturally create a cascade of changes:

1) Your head will automatically be in the right position relative to the toss
2) It will seem natural to take a bigger loop on the backswing in order to balance out the extra body lean that you get.
3) Your upper body and lower body will become more involved in the whole motion so you will gain a major increase in both linear and angular momentum in your swing.
4) Everybody will say, "good, you've corrected this and that...yadda, yadda, yadda" ...when all you've done is adjusted your ball toss and started to use your athletic ability a little more.

Take another video and I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised number of changes that happened as a result of simply tossing the ball into the court another 14-18 inches. From there we can do some tweaking and maybe start working on service placement precision.

One more thing, aim for the baseline when you are starting out. If things go according to plan, the ball should start dipping and catch the service line after the first half dozen attempts. Don't overdo it and hurt your shoulder...ooops, that's two things.:p
Awesome!!! I will use ever bit of that and post up some more videos as soon as I get some good footage. Thanks again for taking the time to write that.

lolsmash
09-08-2006, 03:16 PM
You have good mechanics. My only comments are to use your legs more which can be done by tossing more forward as Trinity mentioned.

Also, Jacksonvile, I'd say that what BB meant was that you have to get on the balls of your feet/toes to be able to push up off the ground. Try using your legs while serving flat-footed. You can't, and if you can, show us a video. Also stop using personal attacks such as calling people morons. It's not nice.

ShooterMcMarco
09-08-2006, 03:16 PM
M y toss is actually placed similar to his, a few inches in front of the baseline. I'll experiment with a toss thats further out in front.

TonyB
09-10-2006, 10:15 AM
Honestly, your serving motion looks good. Perhaps put a bit more drive into the ball using your legs and you'd generate more power.

One thing I noticed is that your ball toss for the last serve was about 1 foot more in front of you than the previous serves. Play the video and put your mouse at the point of contact for your first serve in the video. The next ones are exactly the same. But the last one is noticeably out in front more.

All in all, there's nothing wrong with the motion. It just looks like you need to be more consistent with the toss and find a contact point that works for you.