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Down the line
09-14-2006, 07:59 AM
Hello!

Topspin Cyberflash vs
Big Banger Alu Power Rough or
Big Banger Alu Power Rough / Multi - hybrid

Any comments on feel, power and spin, etc. of these different set ups versus each other?

man-walking
09-14-2006, 12:16 PM
Cyber Flash full job.

Ripper
09-14-2006, 12:44 PM
Hello!

Topspin Cyberflash vs
Big Banger Alu Power Rough or
Big Banger Alu Power Rough / Multi - hybrid

What's it about the "Rough" Alu? Man, I'm going to have to try it, one of these days.

jasonbourne
09-14-2006, 12:56 PM
Cyber Flash full job.

man-walking, what do you like about a full Cyber Flash job?

Have you hybrid it with anything before?

man-walking
09-15-2006, 06:58 AM
Jasonbourne, Cyber Flash or not, if poly, I prefer the full-poly job anyway, I feel enjoying much better the constant viscousity (constant even after notching and hours of play) that offer modern polys. ;)

If I find a good syngut that has and maintains viscous contact even after notching maybe I'll try hybriding it in the mains (poly crosses).
But in my short experience with the Ultra Power SF mains (nice playable wrap syngut) and Poly-Megaforce crosses I noticed that the stringjob plays very good for only about 2 hours, then the syngut starts getting notched and making some considerable friction between the poly. (this doesn't happen with full-poly, it rather maintains a crisp snap-back of the mains during top-spin strokes)
Then the hybrid doesn't work anymore for me... the syngut feels collapsed, less reactive, indeed being it the softer component it must get too much work so it deadens too quickly. (maybe for my tastes)

That said, CF has an almost instantaneous break-in period (only some minutes of play), after that it feels soft and comfortable... and hits monsters balls! (biting spin)

Down the line
09-15-2006, 08:16 AM
Hello Man Walking - and thanks for the replies. Some follow up questions:
1) What about volleying with the CF - does it feel dead like the BB Alu, or better feel?
2) What tension should one use - for example in comparison to a full BB Alu set up?

jasonbourne
09-15-2006, 09:31 AM
man-walking, thanks for your response.

From what you shared, I will try full poly with n6.1 90 in the near future after my recent string job snaps.

I wonder about your tension selection with the n6.1 90...48lbs??? That seems unbelievably low.

I realize the n6.1 90 is a stiff racket, however, I'm unsure if I should go that low. Why do you string so low? At this tension with the CF are you able to comfortably and consistently apply enough spin to carve the ball within the lines? Or are you considering to increase the tension on your subsequent string job?

monologuist
09-15-2006, 01:50 PM
Hello!

Topspin Cyberflash vs
Big Banger Alu Power Rough or
Big Banger Alu Power Rough / Multi - hybrid

Any comments on feel, power and spin, etc. of these different set ups versus each other?

ALu Rough and Cyberflash are similar in power I would say...Both are on the high side of power for a poly. THeir feels are different....the ALU has a more crisp feel...Cyberflash is actually surpirsingly soft. To A/B the 2:
1.Power - similar
2.Spin - ALU Rough
3.Control - ALU Rough
4.Touch/feel - ALU Rough on hard shots, Cyberflash on touch shots
5.Tension stability - similar for the first several hours, but then ALU Rough loses tension eventually, whereas Cyberflash locks in for longer
6.Comfort -Cyberflash
7.String movement - similar
8. Durability - Cyberflash plays well for longer.

I have Cyberflash 17 with Titan Gut crosses @ 55 lbs. in my Yonex MP Tour-5. Fof the money, it's hard to beat...It's similar in some ways to Unique Big Hitter, but I like it better b/c it has more pop.

If money was no object, I'd stick with ALU Rough.

I wouldn't recommend a multi for a cross though...it will lose tension and it will feel mushy pretty fast. THese polys tend to feel best with a softer mono synth gut as a cross.

jasonbourne
09-15-2006, 02:08 PM
monologuist, thanks for sharing your experience between the two strings.

What guage do you have on your gosen og super micro crosses?

Would the og-sheep micro suffice as well in the crosses?

monologuist
09-15-2006, 02:17 PM
monologuist, thanks for sharing your experience between the two strings.

What guage do you have on your gosen og super micro crosses?

Would the og-sheep micro suffice as well in the crosses?
To tell you the truth I am not sure what the difference is between super micro and regular micro..supposedly the super holds tension better which is why I like to use it...but can't confirm that.

When I use 17g. mains, I usually use 16g. for crosses for added durability...also the Gosen Micro strings run thin...the 17g. is more like a 17L.

jasonbourne
09-15-2006, 02:22 PM
monologuist, thanks for your response.

I always wondered with 17g mains would there be noticeably less spin on shots if one used 16g crosses compared to 17g?

monologuist
09-15-2006, 05:51 PM
monologuist, thanks for your response.

I always wondered with 17g mains would there be noticeably less spin on shots if one used 16g crosses compared to 17g?
no I don't think so...the mains are the strings that make the most difference for spin.

man-walking
09-17-2006, 08:04 AM
Hello Man Walking - and thanks for the replies. Some follow up questions:
1) What about volleying with the CF - does it feel dead like the BB Alu, or better feel?
2) What tension should one use - for example in comparison to a full BB Alu set up?
I have played ALU Power only in hybrid (Rip Control crosses) and the setup felt very nice (outstanding control), but that was with the n6.1 95 16x18, a very crisp (and trampoliney) racquet itself. After 10 hours the stringbed felt with 0 dwell-time and was stiff like hell.

To me CF plays very crisp the first 4-5 hours, you are able to hit tons of spin with a lot of vertical racquet movement without worrying to hit sailing balls. (the ball takes very biting spin and goes fairly straight)
After that it loses some crispness, softens even more (yes it's a soft poly), less power on spin and more on speed and higher launch angle (so you have to change the impact angle and have to go a bit more ahead with the hoop), deadens a little bit feeling like a little worn SPPP so you must pay some more attention avoiding pure flat strokes, but most important the overall power remains predictable, no trampoline effect (like worn SPPP 18 or Poly Polar).

About volleys I think there isn't any real problem, since like I said the power remains predictable, but I'm not a net player nor perform much volleys during a match.
man-walking, thanks for your response.

From what you shared, I will try full poly with n6.1 90 in the near future after my recent string job snaps.

I wonder about your tension selection with the n6.1 90...48lbs??? That seems unbelievably low.

I realize the n6.1 90 is a stiff racket, however, I'm unsure if I should go that low. Why do you string so low? At this tension with the CF are you able to comfortably and consistently apply enough spin to carve the ball within the lines? Or are you considering to increase the tension on your subsequent string job?
Frankly, after a long time now I think and understand that one could play well with any of the lower range tensions, it's more a matter of how the stringbed reacts and evolves during play.
To me the key aspect to consider is one: string movement.
In my experience I have played with unbelievable (for me) low tensions with the n6.1 Tour, such as 20/19Kg with multi or syngut, but what I summed up until now is that any of these stringjobs initially plays well and enjoyable whatever the tension is!
The *real* difference emerges when the stringbed starts wearing out, here comes into play that 'chronic string movement' that takes out the consistency, the predicability, the feel from our game.

That said my stringjob plays yet good (CF @ 22Kg - 7 hours and even counting some drop in tension) not because strings are tight but because they are tight enough having the minimal needed strength to keep them in place (move and return) after any game point until now.

Another factor is the smoothness of the string surface: a modern co-poly moves and snaps back with much more ease, there is very little friction; not the same for syngut or multi, they are usually rubbery and more abrasive and thus need more force applied, more tension to assure the 'return in place', plus even if they may be made with some coating process to enhance durability/viscousity, after the first wearing phase (notches just appear) they start kink everywhere in a very erratic fashion anyway.

jasonbourne
09-17-2006, 11:22 AM
man-walking, thanks for your response. I appreciate your explanation behind your low string tension.

We also had the exact same experience wrt to the first 4-5hrs with CF.

I tried the CF at sub-50lb tension in the mains with 54lb muti crosses. I had difficulty carving the ball inside the lines. I felt the power and comfort of the low tension, but could not consistently carve the ball in. The ball shot from my stringbed too fast for me to apply enough spin.

I should work on my technique to use lower tensions.

man-walking
09-17-2006, 12:28 PM
If hybrid, I'd advise you the one with the poly on crosses, IMHO it's the one that could give a plus in playability (the one that really catches the ball and gives a somewhat overspinning effect), the cons is that may feel uncomfortable on lateal mishits or after some irregular tension loss in mains/crosses, because the strings are obviously different (that's the basic reason because the hybrid is not exactly my friend).

The other way (poly on mains) isn't more than a durability oriented solution, stringbed feel is more solid but spin generation feels like 'blocked', probably the ball doesn't interact much with the mains because the soft rubbery string in the crosses and/or its higher gauge absorbs most of impact.

P.S.: for poly-in-crosses hybrid I would strung at higher tension than my actual, sure, so you don't have to feel really wrong with your tension jasonbourne (even if you are using other way actually).
If I'll retest the hybrid route I think I'll go for poly crosses @ 23Kg(50.5lbs) and syngut (wrap) mains @ 24.5Kg(54lbs)

jackson vile
09-17-2006, 02:18 PM
If hybrid, I'd advise you the one with the poly on crosses, IMHO it's the one that could give a plus in playability (the one that really catches the ball and gives a somewhat overspinning effect), the cons is that may feel uncomfortable on lateal mishits or after some irregular tension loss in mains/crosses, because the strings are obviously different (basically because that hybrid is not my friend).

The other way (poly on mains) isn't more than a durability oriented solution, stringbed feel is more solid but spin generation feels like 'blocked', probably the ball doesn't interact much with the mains because the soft rubbery string in the crosses and/or its higher gauge absorbs most of impact.

P.S.: for poly-in-crosses hybrid I would strung at higher tension than my actual, sure, so you don't have to feel really wrong with your tension jasonbourne (even if you are using other way actually).
If I'll retest the hybrid route I think I'll go for poly crosses @ 23Kg(50.5lbs) and syngut (wrap) mains @ 24.5Kg(54lbs)

I am looking to put a poly in my crosses, I was thinking either megaforce or Alupower to bring down the power and because those strings are so slick, but I am afraid the might lose too much tension as I like to use my rackets for 4-8 weeks as I am not always able to play.

You really feel that having a softer string in the mains adds more spin? I prefer lower tension and prefer to feel the cup of the ball.

jasonbourne
09-17-2006, 03:17 PM
man-walking, thanks for suggesting to reverse my hybrid setup. I will try that next to see how it feels before I may eventually go full-poly route. And when I do go to full poly, I will start with a 48M/52C tension.

I want to ease my way to full-poly route or else I may end like some folks I read around here who had a terrible initial experience with it and no longer are open to using it.

I would love to feel the more spin effect of a full-poly. However, I prefer to hybrid the poly next with it in the crosses.

Also, thanks for explaining how the ball interacts in both hybrid setups. That was educational.

man-walking
09-17-2006, 05:07 PM
You really feel that having a softer string in the mains adds more spin? I prefer lower tension and prefer to feel the cup of the ball.
Not precisely I refer to soft in elongation or tension, I mean nylon based and similar syngut/wrap (or multi) with that classic soft and ball biting surface.
Maybe one could be lucky enough finding a model that slides well in contact with poly but still bites the ball like all strings of that type (usually nylon based).
That would be a perfect match, with high spin potential.
man-walking, thanks for suggesting to reverse my hybrid setup. I will try that next to see how it feels before I may eventually go full-poly route. And when I do go to full poly, I will start with a 48M/52C tension.
Why do you opt for 4lbs diff. between mains/crosses?
I would love to feel the more spin effect of a full-poly.
In short, the plus that full-poly job gives you is not immediate or easy spin, but the capability to introduce/encourage in your game certain *wild* topspin cuts to the ball that would be impossible with other non-poly non-kevlar strings without erratic results.
You can put anything in, virtually any force, speed, angle and if your technique remains correct you'll see anything you have put just charged in your deadly court-biting balls.
(well they bite your opponent racquet too, that's the very offensive thing)

jasonbourne
09-17-2006, 05:14 PM
man-walking, yes...4lbs less in the mains. This would make it less stiff or harsh compared to both tensions at 52lbs. Essentially, with 48/52 main/cross setup the reference tension is 50lbs.

If my approach seems incorrect to you, let me know your experience. I'm open to refining or being corrected.