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View Full Version : Oversize Vs. Normal


HELPTennis
09-25-2006, 01:28 PM
What is the main difference in oversize and normal besides the size obv.
I am new to the game and was looking to get a raquet.

Bryant
09-25-2006, 01:37 PM
Oversize raquets have a larger sweet spot, thus provide more power than a "normal" raquet. They also are more forgiving than a players raquet if you hit off-center.

Tennis Man
09-25-2006, 02:03 PM
There is no such thing as "normal":

Midsize (Mid): 85-92 sq inch/548 - 593 sq cm
Midplus (MP): 93-105/ 594-677
Oversize (OS): 106-115/ 678-741
Super OS: 116+/742+ stay away from SOS signal :)


If you are new, start with MP (closer to 100) and if you are naturally good you may try mid-size (90-93) ... Then the fun will begin.

Tennis Man
09-25-2006, 02:36 PM
here my "unintentional" chart for you (I just had them arranged by head size)

http://i10.tinypic.com/4cdk1mh.jpg

netman
09-25-2006, 03:03 PM
Ignore the advice that a smaller head will make you a better player. It is pure BS. Andre Agassi is considered the best pure ball striker in the game and he uses an OS. Try a variety of sizes and go with the one that feels the most comfortable to you and rewards you with the most consistent shots. That is what will keep you interested in the game.

-k-

netman
09-25-2006, 03:04 PM
Rafaello, cool graphic.

-k-

Tennis Man
09-25-2006, 03:07 PM
Ignore the advice that a smaller head will make you a better player. It is pure BS. Andre Agassi is considered the best pure ball striker in the game and he uses an OS. Try a variety of sizes and go with the one that feels the most comfortable to you and rewards you with the most consistent shots. That is what will keep you interested in the game.

-k-

That's just my 2 cents.

Rafaello, cool graphic.

-k-

Thanks.

nikolaih
09-25-2006, 03:23 PM
I think you may want to try something oversized or mid-plus, so that you have a more forgiving sweetspot as you build consistency. For me, I like this because I can narrow down my problems while learning. One less thing to worry about while you fine tune the basic mechanics.

However, alot of the oversized racquets are combined with a whole lot of power and are very light weight but head heavy, sometimes long. Basically, sometimes they are trampolines that are not very maneuvable and not smooth to swing, in my experience. I didn't think this was helping me because I would gravitate towards blocking shots, as opposed to swinging through them with form, because I don't have enough topspin yet to keep the balls these racquets hit in court. I cannot volley with those significantly head heavy, extra long racquets either.

Basically, tweener racquets. Prince has a bunch that are very cheap right now, like the Prince Triple Threat Scream, Bandit, Warrior, etc.

Note, I don't know where you're at playing wise, but I wouldn't take the Tennis Warehouse NTRP level recommendations too seriously. I've found that they seem to just focus on power but not on forgiveness, so if you have a more full swing and some strength, you might find that you play best with racquets that they suggest for only really skilled players. In my case, I couldn't find anything that TW suggested was suitable for a player less than 3.5 that didn't have too much power for my stroke.

HELPTennis
09-25-2006, 05:11 PM
Thanks for the help just didnt want to get stuck with a raquet and be stuck with it because of its size

netman
09-25-2006, 06:01 PM
The Bandit OS and the Warrior OS are both very good frames that lean more toward the player end of the spectrum. The Warrior OS is already over 11 oz. The Bandit OS is light in stock form, but is a great modification platform as you improve. You can start with the stock weight and balance and modify it as you get better. If you decide to change you won't have any trouble selling them. They are screaming deals right now.

I have my Bandit OS frames weighted up to 10.8 oz and a 8 pt HL balance. In this form they outperform most of the tweeners on the market without being to powerful or light. I switched to them from a 98 sq in, 12 oz frame and this change has really boosted my winning percentage due to reduced errors and better shot control.

-k-

Amone
09-25-2006, 06:22 PM
@Rafaello: There actually is a 'normal.' It's technical term is 'standard,' and it's something like 60-85 in^2. In short, old racquets. Most people don't know about that one, though, so I don't blame you for not citing it.

@HELPTennis: Power, plain and simple. A larger headsize has a bigger 'trampoline' for the ball to bounce off, and bigger means that when it stops, the ball leaves faster too.

heycal
09-25-2006, 07:52 PM
The Bandit OS and the Warrior OS are both very good frames that lean more toward the player end of the spectrum. The Warrior OS is already over 11 oz. The Bandit OS is light in stock form, but is a great modification platform as you improve. You can start with the stock weight and balance and modify it as you get better. If you decide to change you won't have any trouble selling them. They are screaming deals right now.

I have my Bandit OS frames weighted up to 10.8 oz and a 8 pt HL balance. In this form they outperform most of the tweeners on the market without being to powerful or light. I switched to them from a 98 sq in, 12 oz frame and this change has really boosted my winning percentage due to reduced errors and better shot control.

-k-

So you're saying you have less errors and more control after switching to an OS? I think it would be fair to inform the OP that most people report the exact opposite experience, do they not?

While we're at it, why would the OP have no trouble selling his Bandit if he decided he didn't like it? From my extremely limited understanding of economics, it is my impression that the great deals available on brand-new Bandits would pretty much preclude most people from buying a used one. What's he going to get for his used Bandit, ten bucks if he's lucky?

In short, it appears that the economics in your post and your racket's characteristics are both backwards.

nikolaih
09-25-2006, 08:13 PM
So you're saying you have less errors and more control after switching to an OS? I think it would be fair to inform the OP that most people report the exact opposite experience, do they not?


Bigger sweet spot. I make more errors with racquets that I have trouble finding the sweet spot consistantly on. Less control, in a placement sense, but more forgiving on less pure contact with the ball.

OrangeOne
09-25-2006, 08:18 PM
So you're saying you have less errors and more control after switching to an OS? I think it would be fair to inform the OP that most people report the exact opposite experience, do they not?

Heycal - your "most people" is the bit that that is flawed in your post.


Most people that play tennis play once a week, and sometimes only for two seasons.
Most people that play tennis play with cheap racquets they've begged, borrowed or bought from a chain store or discount store, not a tennis store.
Most people that play tennis will rarely change racquet.
Most people that play tennis will never come on here.
Most people that play tennis, when they do change racquet, walk back into the same store they bought the first racquet from, care nothing about headsize, and buy a racquet that is newer and / dearer, because....it must be better, right?


Hopefully now I've drawn you a better picture of most people. I like "most people", they are the base that keep sports like ours in the mainstream. I'm a part of a non-mainstream sport too, and if we had "most people" our sport would be cheaper and offered in more locations.

Now, Given that HELPtennis is a new player, the following is true:

Most people will benefit from using a "larger" framed racquet, of mid-plus or OS dimensions. It will allow a lot more flexibility in terms of accuracy of ball-striking, easier application of spin due to the accuracy-ease with spin swings, and a bit more power as well.

Tennis Man
09-26-2006, 07:02 AM
@Rafaello: There actually is a 'normal.' It's technical term is 'standard,' and it's something like 60-85 in^2. In short, old racquets. Most people don't know about that one, though, so I don't blame you for not citing it.

@HELPTennis: Power, plain and simple. A larger headsize has a bigger 'trampoline' for the ball to bounce off, and bigger means that when it stops, the ball leaves faster too.

Let's not go there. I'm just being specific as I've been there before and ended up with 110-head monsters :).

raiden031
09-26-2006, 07:37 AM
Ignore anything having to do with NTRP when choosing a racquet. I am 3.0-3.5 and used to play with an OS (115") racquet. I play with a hard, full swing and every time I attempted to hit a deep, fast shot it would just go out of bounds. I had to switch to a racquet with 92" because anything bigger would give me too much power. If you have a weak or slow swing or like to block the shot, then an OS is good for you. I don't find my new racquet any less forgiving then my old one. I guess if you're a 2.0-2.5 you might hit the frame more, but I think too many people act like someone who is a 3.0-3.5 doesn't know how to hit the ball which is highly untrue. Most people would probably benefit more with a mid-mid+ racquet if they are aggressive and like to hit the ball hard.

heycal
09-26-2006, 09:12 AM
Heycal - your "most people" is the bit that that is flawed in your post.


Most people that play tennis play once a week, and sometimes only for two seasons.
Most people that play tennis play with cheap racquets they've begged, borrowed or bought from a chain store or discount store, not a tennis store.
Most people that play tennis will rarely change racquet.
Most people that play tennis will never come on here.
Most people that play tennis, when they do change racquet, walk back into the same store they bought the first racquet from, care nothing about headsize, and buy a racquet that is newer and / dearer, because....it must be better, right?


Hopefully now I've drawn you a better picture of most people. I like "most people", they are the base that keep sports like ours in the mainstream. I'm a part of a non-mainstream sport too, and if we had "most people" our sport would be cheaper and offered in more locations.

Now, Given that HELPtennis is a new player, the following is true:

Most people will benefit from using a "larger" framed racquet, of mid-plus or OS dimensions. It will allow a lot more flexibility in terms of accuracy of ball-striking, easier application of spin due to the accuracy-ease with spin swings, and a bit more power as well.

First of all, everyone knows that everything is done backwards in Australia, from driving on the wrong side of the road to the direction the water swirls when going down the drain. It's important to keep this in mind.

Seondly, I have no particular strong feelings about head size, believe it or not, and am still not even sure what I personally prefer. I was just pointing out that the OP should be aware that many tennis players avoid OS frames because they have less control and thus produce more unforced errors because the ball is flying all over the place. The OP was interested in the differences between head sizes, so he should be aware of this fact, regardless of what is ultimately the best racket for him or any particular player.

Thirdly, your list of the attributes of "most people" who play tennis is suspect, but even if all that were true, it strongly supports my contention that most people would never go on the internet or wherever else the OP would post an ad looking to buy a used Bandit when they could buy a new one so cheaply (or a similar cheap racket from a chain store).

netman
09-26-2006, 09:35 AM
So you're saying you have less errors and more control after switching to an OS? I think it would be fair to inform the OP that most people report the exact opposite experience, do they not?

OrangeOne's post pretty much sums up the appropriate response to this part of your quote. This has been covered more times than I can remember, but the TW boards have to be one of the few sports related boards where posters tell newbies to buy equipment that makes the sport more difficult to learn and play. Imagine if golf folks told newbies to start out on persimmon woods and unweighted irons because it would make them better players. Can you imagine advice like this in any other sport - "Forget all the advances in equipment, thats for cheaters. You need to punish yourself and put years of work into your game. You've got to earn it! You'll thank me for it in the end."? Yet you see this kind of nonsense posted on these boards every day.

While we're at it, why would the OP have no trouble selling his Bandit if he decided he didn't like it? From my extremely limited understanding of economics, it is my impression that the great deals available on brand-new Bandits would pretty much preclude most people from buying a used one. What's he going to get for his used Bandit, ten bucks if he's lucky?

I never said he would sell it for what he paid. You can't even do that with a shiny new state of the art frame. But if you pay $70 for it, use it for a year and sell it for $30, I'd say you easily got $40 of use out of it. And there are plenty of folks who would pay $30 bucks for a lightly used Bandit OS. Thats a small investment to see if you really enjoy the game.

In short, it appears that the economics in your post and your racket's characteristics are both backwards.

From the backwards logic and broad assumptions you base your arguments on, I could see how you would draw that conclusion.

-k-

raiden031
09-26-2006, 09:45 AM
OrangeOne's post pretty much sums up the appropriate response to this part of your quote. This has been covered more times than I can remember, but the TW boards have to be one of the few sports related boards where posters tell newbies to buy equipment that makes the sport more difficult to learn and play. Imagine if golf folks told newbies to start out on persimmon woods and unweighted irons because it would make them better players. Can you imagine advice like this in any other sport - "Forget all the advances in equipment, thats for cheaters. You need to punish yourself and put years of work into your game. You've got to earn it! You'll thank me for it in the end."? Yet you see this kind of nonsense posted on these boards every day.


I agree with you that a beginner or someone who has a pretty bad swing would benefit by getting the typical OS racquet because they need the added power and larger face for off-center shots. However the problem with the recommendations on TW is that they assume everyone who is not advanced is a beginner. I disagree that intermediate players would benefit from a racquet with less control and too much power. In this case the OP sounds like a beginner, but for those that already have the basics down and can hit with decent pace, they should know what is better for their game in the long run.

Keifers
09-26-2006, 10:06 AM
What is the main difference in oversize and normal besides the size obv.
I am new to the game and was looking to get a raquet.
I would suggest seeking the advice/opinions of people you know who know how to play the game reasonably well and can watch you hit to get a sense of your skill level.

Consulting a teaching pro would also be a good idea. (And taking some lessons may be particularly helpful at this stage of your game.)

Lastly, there is almost nothing as good as demoing racquets you're interested in to determine which one(s) you play better with. TW's demo program is very convenient, I've found.

Keifers
09-26-2006, 10:40 AM
I agree with you that a beginner or someone who has a pretty bad swing would benefit by getting the typical OS racquet because they need the added power and larger face for off-center shots. However the problem with the recommendations on TW is that they assume everyone who is not advanced is a beginner. I disagree that intermediate players would benefit from a racquet with less control and too much power. In this case the OP sounds like a beginner, but for those that already have the basics down and can hit with decent pace, they should know what is better for their game in the long run.
Good point you're making here. There are multiple skill levels and the advice to try more player-oriented frames is applicable to a certain level and above.

heycal
09-26-2006, 05:17 PM
OrangeOne's post pretty much sums up the appropriate response to this part of your quote. This has been covered more times than I can remember, but the TW boards have to be one of the few sports related boards where posters tell newbies to buy equipment that makes the sport more difficult to learn and play. Imagine if golf folks told newbies to start out on persimmon woods and unweighted irons because it would make them better players. Can you imagine advice like this in any other sport - "Forget all the advances in equipment, thats for cheaters. You need to punish yourself and put years of work into your game. You've got to earn it! You'll thank me for it in the end."? Yet you see this kind of nonsense posted on these boards every day.



I never said he would sell it for what he paid. You can't even do that with a shiny new state of the art frame. But if you pay $70 for it, use it for a year and sell it for $30, I'd say you easily got $40 of use out of it. And there are plenty of folks who would pay $30 bucks for a lightly used Bandit OS. Thats a small investment to see if you really enjoy the game.



From the backwards logic and broad assumptions you base your arguments on, I could see how you would draw that conclusion.

-k-

As for racket size, I'm not telling the newbie what to buy. He asked about the differences, and I pointed out that he should be aware that many people feel the opposite of you about the the benefits and drawbacks of OS frames.

As for the ecomomics of reselling Bandits, I stand by my position. If I'm the Bandit owner, I can't see wanting to go to the trouble of posting want ads and paying shipping costs and dealing with back and forth emails, etc. in hopes of selling my racket for 30 bucks -- partly because, as a buyer, I would never buy a year old "lightly used" racket for 30 bucks from a stranger when I could buy a spanking-new one from a retailer for only 29 bucks more.

More to the point, your initial assertion that he could easily re-sell a used Bandit because there are "screaming deals" on new ones does not make any sense -- how would low prices on new Bandits create a hot market for selling used ones?