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View Full Version : The Effect of Polyester Strings


fishuuuuu
09-27-2006, 10:55 AM
I am aware that they have greater potential for spin at lower tensions. But I have a question to whether or not the potential is greater with a full poly job or if it would be equally acceptable as a hybrid string job.

westy
09-27-2006, 11:13 AM
imo there is a greater potential with all poly job than a hybrid, i dont no why just from personal experience

fishuuuuu
09-27-2006, 03:32 PM
imo there is a greater potential with all poly job than a hybrid, i dont no why just from personal experience

Thanks, is there anybody else with similar experiences? Travlerjm?

counterpuncher
09-27-2006, 03:50 PM
imo there is a greater potential with all poly job than a hybrid, i dont no why just from personal experience
Have to agree here, have tried a hybrid job twice vs. just that poly and have found both times that the spin was greater with the full poly, while feel and power were better with the hybrid.

steve s
09-27-2006, 06:14 PM
I do not think the crosses improve the spin.

AJK1
09-27-2006, 09:35 PM
Not according to science they don't. Blind playtests revealed there was no added spin with poly strings, the only thing they did was lose tension the quickest.

fishuuuuu
09-28-2006, 05:50 AM
Not according to science they don't. Blind playtests revealed there was no added spin with poly strings, the only thing they did was lose tension the quickest.

It has already been proven by playing that polyester strings do in fact allow a greater potential for spin due to their stiff but "elastic" nature.

Sebastien
09-28-2006, 09:12 AM
I do not think the crosses improve the spin.

I have experienced the opposite.

jackson vile
09-28-2006, 10:31 AM
You have to consider tension string used racket used and playing style finally level of play

Wondertoy
09-28-2006, 11:20 AM
Listen, it's so obvious that all poly creates more spin. You are wasting your time to hybrid poly with anything besides gut if you are using the 2nd generation polys, i.e. Polystar Energy, Lux. If you are using 1st generation poly, i.e., Super Smash, you are just plain wasting your time, IMHO.

fishuuuuu
09-28-2006, 12:24 PM
Listen, it's so obvious that all poly creates more spin. You are wasting your time to hybrid poly with anything besides gut if you are using the 2nd generation polys, i.e. Polystar Energy, Lux. If you are using 1st generation poly, i.e., Super Smash, you are just plain wasting your time, IMHO.

Not "so obvious," but thanks for the confirmation Wondertoy.

MasterTS
09-28-2006, 12:32 PM
Not according to science they don't. Blind playtests revealed there was no added spin with poly strings, the only thing they did was lose tension the quickest.

If they're blind they must have really good hearing to hit da bar! I have a hard time playing at night with bad lighting!

Ten_is
09-28-2006, 12:47 PM
what about poly v.s a very thin type of kevlar string?

BigServer1
09-28-2006, 03:09 PM
I think if you hybrid poly with natural gut you would get as much if not more spin than with all poly.

f2fanatic
09-29-2006, 05:47 AM
I've just strung with Klip legend M @ 58 and SPPP X@55 and I do not have as much spin as when I had the full poly job (M55-X57). I am just wondering if by reversing the tensions on the Gut-poly setup (M55-X58) instead of (M58-X55) i would have better spin and depth control:confused:

emcee
09-29-2006, 06:21 AM
Poly + synth guy = less spin than all poly. I'm really not liking my SPPP/PSG nearly as much as all SPPP. Less control, less spin, and too much power it seems like.

fishuuuuu
09-29-2006, 10:31 AM
Poly + synth guy = less spin than all poly. I'm really not liking my SPPP/PSG nearly as much as all SPPP. Less control, less spin, and too much power it seems like.

That's the same setup I was using before except with PSGD. I agree, not enough control, spin was marginal, and power was there.

Midlife crisis
09-29-2006, 11:42 AM
There are a few mechanisms that allow poly strings to generate more spin. Among those are that poly strings are very stiff and very slippery, and this helps in a couple of ways.

First, if a string deflects during the hitting of the ball, the stiffness and slipperiness allows the string to rebound back to the original position prior to the ball leaving the strings. This can help add spin back to the ball which may be lost because the strings moved and did not rebound.

Second, when a ball is compressed and the racquet has some vertical trajectory, the radius of ball rotation is smaller and so the ball would have a faster spin rate than a ball that were not as compressed (and consequently has a larger radius when measuring from the center of the ball to the surface that contacts the ball). As the ball leaves the strings and starts to regain its original shape, it will actually then be spinning faster than the vertical velocity of the racquet face. The slipperiness of poly strings allows the ball to retain more of this "overspin".

CheapStrings
09-29-2006, 03:32 PM
Polys do not generate more spin but they have less power allowing the player to swing harder and the faster racquet head speed generates more spin. More spin also equates to more control. If you hit the ball flat or have a slow swing, neither gut nor poly nor any other string is going to put terrific spin on the ball.

It's primarilly the angle of attack (AOA) on the ball and the speed at contact (SAC) that affect the spin. With the same AOA and SAC, you'll get the same spin from any string but the ball will fly further with a non-poly mainly because non-polys (exclude kevlar) stretch more therefore the ball stays on the strings longer and come off at a higher trajectory.

If a hybrid allows you to swing harder/faster you will get more spin, but it is not from the string. The spin comes from your stroke. The string setup (and it is very individual) that allows you to hit with the fastest stroke will generate the most spin for you. IMHO.

Fist
10-01-2006, 08:16 PM
I cant believe that's true. I just recently got back into the game after a 14 year layoff (eligibility ran out in college and just stopped playing). I read up on all of the new rackets and strings. naturally, I got a bunch of different strings to test out. when I changed the strings from Prince syngut 17's to timo 17's, the difference in spin was stunning. My stroke, the tension, the rackets, all were the same except the string, and the difference in spin was immense. Granted, the power was also lower, but that has nothing to do with rpm's, which equals amount of spin. there is no doubt, at least with Timo 17, it creates more spin than any other string Ive tried (all syngut).

CheapStrings
10-02-2006, 09:05 AM
What they say is that if the swing is truely the same, the spin only seems to affect the ball more. The ball doesn't travel as far (the ball has a lower trajectory due to coming off the racquet face earlier) and therefore dips earlier. The "impression" is that there is a lot more spin. The spin is really limited by the stroke speed brushing the ball.

Some people say that polys bite the ball more but all strings eventually bite the ball or the ball would roll across the racquet face and always hit the frame. Once the strings bite the ball, whether early or later, the swing speed imparts spin to the ball, provided the angle of attack is correct.

I read some of this in a book called Technical Tennis (I hope I'm recalling it correctly). Not that everything published is true but it seems logical to me.

Watch out for tennis elbow with timo. If you get it you may be able to just drop the tension (by 7 - 12 lbs) and keep using timo. Polys play pretty decently at extremely low tensions.

Ripper
10-02-2006, 09:37 AM
Polys do not generate more spin but they have less power allowing the player to swing harder and the faster racquet head speed generates more spin.

Bingo.

fastdunn
10-02-2006, 10:30 AM
Polys do not generate more spin but they have less power allowing the player to swing harder and the faster racquet head speed generates more spin. .


This might be true. Not the absolute number for RPM but higher spin/pace
ratio.

But the 2 factors Midlifecrisis mentioned are also true. It's proven in
many research papers. AFAIK, one of the reasons why spagetti pattern
gave so much spin was the string moves and comes back easily
(because it was not inter-weaved??)

Zverev
10-03-2006, 12:05 AM
It's easier to generate spin with poly strings.
Why? Have no idea anymore and tired of reading Technical Tennis and numerous articles.
They just do, from experience.
I've played 3 last years with all sorts of multis (had TE/GE/wrist), but as it's all gone, moved to poly. Incredible spin production, slice too!
And power? Guess what, when moving from Yonex Pro Spin to Pro Hurricane at the same tension, power didn't decrease at all!
So..whatever the wise guys say, poly means better spin, better control, and no less power. And it's just MHO.

AlpineCadet
10-03-2006, 12:16 AM
What they say is that if the swing is truely the same, the spin only seems to affect the ball more. The ball doesn't travel as far (the ball has a lower trajectory due to coming off the racquet face earlier) and therefore dips earlier. The "impression" is that there is a lot more spin. The spin is really limited by the stroke speed brushing the ball.

Some people say that polys bite the ball more but all strings eventually bite the ball or the ball would roll across the racquet face and always hit the frame. Once the strings bite the ball, whether early or later, the swing speed imparts spin to the ball, provided the angle of attack is correct.

I read some of this in a book called Technical Tennis (I hope I'm recalling it correctly). Not that everything published is true but it seems logical to me.

Watch out for tennis elbow with timo. If you get it you may be able to just drop the tension (by 7 - 12 lbs) and keep using timo. Polys play pretty decently at extremely low tensions.


A great post! :)

Fist
10-03-2006, 07:51 AM
I dont know man, I dont buy it. Im not judging my "perceived" spin solely on the dip or downward action of the ball. Im more basing it on its reaction after the bounce. If the rpm's were the same, the ball reaction after bounce wouldnt be much different. However, with timo 17, the ball shoots up and forward like its never done before for me. Again, Im not talking about a little tiny bit. It was blatantly obvious after the first stroke taken. It doesnt seem any different than wedges in golf. Given the same material and same loft, all wedges should produce the same amount of rpms on the ball. However, they dont due to their grooves. Both the edges of the grooves, their depth, and their placement. Why wouldnt the same thing apply to different string materials? Sharper edges grip a golf ball better, therefore applying more of the head's force directionally into the ball. Edges that have dulled will slip ever so slightly, losing some of the transfer of energy into the ball. Thereby reducing the number of rpm's, i.e. spin. It just seems to me that strings could and should have a similar effects on a tennis ball.

TonyB
10-03-2006, 08:08 AM
One thing that surprised me the first time I played with a poly string (SPPP 17) was the incredible speed at which the ball left the strings.

For the first 5 minutes, every shot was going wide, as if I were hitting the ball really late. The ball was leaving the strings so fast, I wasn't "carrying" the ball on the racquet as much as with other strings.

You can split hairs about the dwell time as much as you want, but the bottom line is that the strings DID cause the trajectory of the ball to change, as I said, as if I were hitting the ball really late.

Midlife crisis
10-03-2006, 08:35 AM
One thing that surprised me the first time I played with a poly string (SPPP 17) was the incredible speed at which the ball left the strings.

For the first 5 minutes, every shot was going wide, as if I were hitting the ball really late. The ball was leaving the strings so fast, I wasn't "carrying" the ball on the racquet as much as with other strings.

You can split hairs about the dwell time as much as you want, but the bottom line is that the strings DID cause the trajectory of the ball to change, as I said, as if I were hitting the ball really late.

Dwell time is so small that differences between strings will not affect the trajectory through "carrying" of the ball. Dwell time is from 5 to 7 milliseconds. If you swing so that the tip of your racquet is moving 100 MPH, which is necessary to hit about a 135 MPH serve, it is going 146 feet per second, or 1752 inches/second. A one millisecond change in dwell time means the ball is in contact for an extra inch and three quarters on a 135 MPH serve. However, it is mostly the point of greatest ball compression that determines where the ball is going, and that point is only half the difference of the entire contact point, so where the ball is maximally compressed is less than an inch different on that 135 MPH serve.

For a typical racquet head speed of 50 MPH for a hard groundstroke, the extra dwell time results in under an inch of extra contact time, with the point of maximum compression varying by less than half an inch.

The differences in trajectory are much greater due to assymetric stringbed deflection and rebound, like you would get due to too loose or too tight strings, rather than from greater or lesser dwell time.

What is more likely is that the extra weight of the strings, possibly as much as 3-5 grams, made you late in your swing. That weight is located high up on the racquet and so contributes highly to additional swingweight.