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View Full Version : Why do some pros bicycle kick when hitting a 2hbh??


Nextman916
09-29-2006, 03:57 PM
Does anyone know what im talking about. They will like hop into the hair to meet the ball but bicycle kick their legs as if it will actually keep them in the air longer....Does this generate more pace? Or is it just purely for looks, i havent hit a 2hbh in forever but it doesnt seem that it would occur naturally. Shouldnt it mess up the timing with all that kicking around? I know im not crazy, ive seen tons of pros do it, just want to know the reason.


-video found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWuheNl9X-E
Arnaud Clement does it alot, its occurs 20 seconds into the clip.

Return_Ace
09-29-2006, 03:59 PM
think it's more power + more height, + looks cooler

not sure tho..

Freddyvalencia
09-29-2006, 04:00 PM
For someone tall like Safin it is mostly show, put from personal experience being able to jump into a ball gives excellent pace and can help overcome heavy top spin shots

ceejay
09-29-2006, 04:01 PM
I always thought a bicycle kick was the same as an overhead kick, due to the similarity in motion as riding a bike.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure, but jumping like that will propel you higher. Clement is probably trying to get the ball to a more convenient height to hit it. Hewitt does it too. Does anyone tall do it?

Nextman916
09-29-2006, 04:07 PM
Freddy just said safin does it....ive seen him do it too. I dont have a list of all the players that do this but tons do. Im confused on why it gives more pace, then why arent players dont it on the forehand side as well?? Is it because the nature of the backhand allows such rigid movement and still hit a clean shot?
I really hope someone has tried this before and can comment on exactly what the hell this does....

ShcMad
09-29-2006, 04:11 PM
Marcelo Rios introduced the jumping 2hbh. Today, Safin, Grosjean, and others follow the tradition. From my understanding is that pros do it when either the ball comes too high to your backhand or when you're too late to position yourself for a good 2hbh.

fishuuuuu
09-29-2006, 04:12 PM
Marcelo Rios introduced the jumping 2hbh. Today, Safin, Grosjean, and others follow the tradition. From my understanding is that pros do it when either the ball comes too high to your backhand or when you're too late to position yourself for a good 2hbh.

Yeah I was thinking that too, it helps them into a more convienent position to wheel off a bigger backhand when they can't do it grounded.

Freddyvalencia
09-29-2006, 04:16 PM
The jumping forehand only works with a short back swing. During High School i attempted it at least once a match. I have a big swing I had to modify it for more control. It does not give you more power. The jumping backhand does though.

Chadwixx
09-29-2006, 04:25 PM
It allows the player to hit all out without opening up creating a mishit.

jmsx521
09-29-2006, 04:58 PM
The jump benefits shorter players, when they have a high ball on the backhand and want to get over the ball. (More players should do that against Nadal, whose ball kicks so high; otherwise, they get pushed back.)

The backhand jump can't be done without the scissor-kick, or you'll loose balance. It's the scissor-kick what gives you the balance in the air and the ability to swing the racket without having solid foot on the ground.

There are also some one-handers who do it as well. And on the forehand all of them do it (to get over the ball), except the scissor-kick isn't really necessary to stabilize you in the air, because the forehand doesn't involve movement of the arm to the other side of the body (like in the backhand) which is what destabilizes the body.

Chadwixx
09-29-2006, 05:38 PM
Its not really needed on the one hander, you can put your emphasis on the back shoulder since it doesnt come around naturally like a two handers.

On the forehand you can keep ur back foot parallel to the baseline and get the same effect as the kicking 2 hander. I focus on the foot when i get the easy mid court put away.

laurie
09-29-2006, 06:10 PM
Mauresmo does it sometimes with her one handed backhand. It looks spectacular.

If you skip when returning, when you get good contact you can jump without realising as you make contact with the ball.

But that's only if you are alert and skipping and on your toes before the ball arives. If you return serve by just standing there, forget it.

chrisdaniel
09-29-2006, 08:05 PM
I do it on the forehand...I get really high up....classic was Rios jump backhand..Safin does it too,dont see it as a real plus on the stroke,just feels right at the moment,and it looks great..

sureshs
09-29-2006, 08:15 PM
I have a 1 H BH, wonder if I should try it. I tend to lean back and stand on my toes to handle high jumping balls.

GugaGuga
09-29-2006, 08:16 PM
It allows you to hang in the air a bit. You may notice that it helps you line up a shot that you know you are going to have to contact at or above your shoulder height. I tend to find that it reduces power a little bit, unless I am able to "use it" correctly to make a very clean shoulder turn directly through the ball--requires good timing.

Nevertheless, words are unreliable when describing how to hit a tennis ball. You will just have to experiment with the technique. You will quickly figure out what you can do with it and what you can't.

-GG

quest01
09-29-2006, 08:23 PM
Its because it keeps you in the air longer. If you ever played Mario Brothers 2 and played as Luigi you will notice when he jumps he does several bicyle kicks because it keeps him in the air longer.

ShcMad
09-29-2006, 08:30 PM
Among 1-handers, I've seen Mauresmo, Olivier Rochus, and Gasquet doing scissor-kick jumping backhands. When it's perfectly executed, it's beautiful to watch. The timing has to be perfect.

What bothers me is that Mauresmo does it sometimes even when it's totally unnecessary, and I've seen her doing it on crucial points. AND, she frames about 70% of them.

On the other hand, I think Gasquet averages about 1-5 jumping backhands during a normal match. Gasquet only does it when he's too late to position himself for a good backhand, or when his footwork is late. AND, he never shanks them when he does them. Case in point: This year's US Open match against Hewitt during the 1st match point

Here's the video if you missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPXwC0klF2Y

slice bh compliment
09-29-2006, 08:33 PM
Marcelo Rios introduced the jumping 2hbh. Today, Safin, Grosjean, and others follow the tradition. From my understanding is that pros do it when either the ball comes too high to your backhand or when you're too late to position yourself for a good 2hbh.

Goran Ivanisevic deserves a little mention here, too.

AngeloDS
09-29-2006, 09:03 PM
It's for balance and twisting of the upper body without injuring the lower body. A lot of pros and even players pivot on their hitting foot on the two handed backhand to get that rotation. The key to todays game is upper body rotation; something that wasn't there in classic tennis techniques.

When you're on the run, you can't stop and then pivot easily. So a lot of people get off the ground to stop from injuring their knees or hips but mostly the knees.

dave333
09-30-2006, 06:55 AM
jumping into teh ball usually gives mroe pace but i find it loses a bit of control. I only do it on high paceless, topspin lobbers when i need the height and extra pop.

Nextman916
09-30-2006, 07:03 AM
I do it on the forehand...I get really high up....classic was Rios jump backhand..Safin does it too,dont see it as a real plus on the stroke,just feels right at the moment,and it looks great..
I jump to meet the ball in the air on forehands and backhands as well, however i dont kick or do funky stuff with my legs when airborne. I dont understand what this does. Also in gasquet's clip with his 1hbh where he hoped to meet the ball, he wasnt kicking around when he did so.

Kobble
09-30-2006, 08:25 AM
It seems to help on kick serves very much. To be honest, though, I think it is overrated and causes more errors than winners.

BluBarry
09-30-2006, 08:29 AM
Marcelo Rios introduced the jumping 2hbh. Today, Safin, Grosjean, and others follow the tradition. From my understanding is that pros do it when either the ball comes too high to your backhand or when you're too late to position yourself for a good 2hbh.

I like this Thread, good question. Actually I remember Michael Chang doing it on occassions and was before Marcelo.

nasri_babolat_storm
09-30-2006, 09:18 AM
i saw gasquet do it against hewitt in the us open. but he injured his left leg on his way down..its looks kinda nice with 1hbh too...

rommil
09-30-2006, 11:09 AM
I like this Thread, good question. Actually I remember Michael Chang doing it on occassions and was before Marcelo.
I was going to say the same thing. I remember Chang doing it before Rios came around. I think it takes very good timing to be able to come up with more power( translation: I havent timed it well lol). It's a cool shot to watch somebody do but I better stick to my less flashy shots.