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View Full Version : Klip Legend 18g.. Bad string set???


robkat
09-29-2006, 07:48 PM
Last night I re-strung my vantage frame with legend 18g. I noticed upon opening the package that the color was yellowish and not the clear smooth string I have used and strung before. The most recent set felt not as smooth as previous sets and also was very resilient and kept coliing and kinking after a light pre- stretch. It was also a pain to string compared to other 18g legend sets,I have strung. I played with it tonight and the string felt like it did not hold tension, strings kept moving. Could this be a faulty set? Previous sets strung up real easy and held tension well and the strings hardly moved.

thomas martinez
09-30-2006, 04:37 AM
Doesn't sound faulty. Sometimes with Klip I've seen you get for lack of better terms, little pebbles on the coating of the string. As for yellow, it's all good. What I was told that causes this, is the cow was fed a diet more heavier in hay, durign a different season.

robkat
09-30-2006, 01:08 PM
Thanks Tom. I appreciate your input.

Richie Rich
09-30-2006, 01:18 PM
villa? how long have you had that problem?

how do you find the durability of the 18g legend? i've used the 17 before and it was ok. just wondering about the 18.

robkat
09-30-2006, 02:15 PM
I have followed Villa since the mid 70's. As as kid ,I watched the weekly English Football match on Sunday afternoons on the PBS station up in New York, Aston Villa became my favorite team.... As for the duability ..I'm not a big string breaker but I would say that the durabilty of the 18g is very good, for an 18g gut. The big difference between the 17g and 18g is Ball feel. The 18g has superb ball feel and pocketing capabilty. For me it ,the feel of the ball on the strings almost feels like I'm catching i the ball with my hand and throwing the ball anywhere on the court that I want.

NoBadMojo
09-30-2006, 05:18 PM
I agree..the Klip Legend is durable for an 18ga string. I get that the string has more grab and bite to it rather than deeper pocketing..so much so <for me> that too much of the energy of the swing was transmitted into spin for me rather than forward momentum.
As far as the string being different appearing at times, I've noticed that too, but never noticed and change in playability

jackson vile
09-30-2006, 06:13 PM
This string is not gut like at all, it has great spin and I like that alot along with it being light.

I would recomend you just simply use biphase 18g as that is what is felt and played like.

The legend series is very unique, nothing like tonic+

Steve Huff
09-30-2006, 10:51 PM
Rob, nearly all the Klip Legend I've used has been a yellowish color. I guess if you're used to VS, BDE or especially Bow Brand, the yellowish color can make it look bad.

robkat
10-01-2006, 04:56 AM
Steve.. This is the first set of Legend 18g that I have seen that has the yellowish tint. This was my fifth time string Legend 18g. Up to now all other sets have been almost crystal clear in color.
As for the playablility/tension loss, I think I might have had a bad night of stringing ;o(

Pro_Tour_630
10-01-2006, 06:40 AM
I would say that the durabilty of the 18g is very good, for an 18g gut.

I agree..the Klip Legend is durable for an 18ga string.

that is because Klip legend 18g is not really an 18g it is 1.20mm more like 17L if you ask me, a true 18g gut is Bow gut 1.10mm which is horrible when it comes to durability, well maybe not in a 85/18x20.

TW should bring back Pacific especially Tournament Pro PrimeGut 18g non-Tyrec, when it comes to pocketing it makes klip legend 18g feel like a 2X4

NoBadMojo
10-01-2006, 07:17 AM
that is because Klip legend 18g is not really an 18g it is 1.20mm more like 17L if you ask me, a true 18g gut is Bow gut 1.10mm which is horrible when it comes to durability, well maybe not in a 85/18x20.

TW should bring back Pacific especially Tournament Pro PrimeGut 18g non-Tyrec, when it comes to pocketing it makes klip legend 18g feel like a 2X4

Michael I dont think that is true at all. I have lots of experiences w. both strings, and it is a case where the Bow gut is a far thinner than 'normal' string for the gauges I've hit...I cant see how anyone could get any durability out of the Bow 18..their 17 is an 18....a squash string as i recall. The 18 is incredibly thin. As far as pocketing goes...I've found the Legend plays way deep in the pocket for such a crisp string..that's what is great about it

Pro_Tour_630
10-01-2006, 07:42 PM
Michael I dont think that is true at all.

Please forgive me, but I do not understand what is not true at all about what I said? Are you trying to tell me that legend 18g which is 1.20mm or maybe more due to the "pebbles" or possible inconsistencies in tolerance is a true 18g? it is embarrassing to see manufacturers deceiving us by listing their 1.22mm ala stamina string for example as an 18g, same goes to all 1.20mm, THEY ARE NOT 18g but 17L they are thicker and hence more durable. The problem here is that you consider 1.20mm as 18g, I simply disagree that legend 18g is "durable FOR an 18g" simply because it is not an 18g. According to USRSA 18g is anything between 1.16mm and 1.10mm and I will extend that range to 1.19mm and below but I refuse to classify 1.20-1.22mm as an 18g. Compare legend 18g to other 17L gut strings. But the real question should be asked which brand has the tightest gauge tolerance in natural gut? A digital caliper sure comes in handy.

from TW http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/LC/Naturalgut.html

Premium natural gut consists of only the best natural material and must meet the strict guidelines of the manufacturer. Since premium natural gut commands a premium price most manufacturers also produce a SECOND LINE of strings which may have SLIGHT INCONSISTENCIES IN GAUGE AND COLOR. Such is the case with Babolat, with its premium VS Team line of strings and its Tonic+ line of strings. Although Babolats Tonic+ is a high quality natural gut, it does not meet the exact gauge and cosmetic requirements of VS Team, which is regarded by many as the ultimate in natural gut.

Can we include Klip gut in that Paragraph?


As for legend 18g feeling like a 2X4 as compared to Tournament Pro PrimeGut 18g non-Tyrec, maybe I should have said 2X2, but you know what I mean, yes legend does pocket well compare to many synth and natural gut strings but have you tried Tournament Pro PrimeGut 18g both Tyrec and non-Tyrec? Tyrec coating is very crispy and the string does not move yet the pocketing is amazing.

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/catthumbs.html?CREF=66

I have tried all "18g's" on this page and then some. Let me tell you, most are not 18g and most play/feel like 17g rather than 18g strings

to add to the discrepancies:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageACKLIP-KB00M18.html
Klip K-Boom An ultra thin and more playable co-polymer (nylon) and polyester mix string. Has a much softer and more forgiving feel compared to traditional polyester strings. Very durable for a 17 gauge string and offers a lot of control, making it a great choice for the power hitter. it is listed as 18g 1.20mm? I don't get it make up your mind? maybe it is a mistake like this http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageACKLIP-KARM17.html


Finally!!! the precise germans, Signum poly plasma 1.18mm and megaforce 1.19mm are listed as 17L and kirschbums 17L polys are 1.20mm and I agree but Gamma professional 18g a 1.22mm string listed as 18g is a joke. Are we gonna see next 1.25mm strings listed as 18g?

Pro_Tour_630
10-01-2006, 08:25 PM
USRSA says that 17g is 1.16mm-1.24mm so I am assuming 17L should be in the middle around 1.20mm

USRSA notes that while TIA (tennis industry association) has standardized gauge specifications, some overlap does exist and string gauge can vary from coil to coil.

NoBadMojo
10-01-2006, 08:47 PM
Michael I was saying what i was saying..that the gauge of Bow Strings is thinner per listed gauge than strings from other manufacturers. Bow16 is similar in thickness to most 17g strings in practical use and their 17g is like an 18g.
Thought we were comparing Klip Legend to Bow.....not KBoom or Signum.

Pro_Tour_630
10-01-2006, 09:03 PM
never mind you missed the point, I was talking about string gauge in general, Bow was just an extreme example. I could have used another example like Pacific Gut. I guess you will always think of 1.20mm gauge strings as 18g just like what the manufacturers tell you. Where as I think of them as 17L

Richie Rich
10-02-2006, 03:16 AM
what's 0.02mm between friends? i can see someone noticing the diff between 15L and 18 but telling the diff between 17L and 18? anything other than Bow Brand (as NBM satates runs thin) and I would never tell the difference. very hard for me to believe that if someone was blindfolded and had a 17L and 18g at exact same tension in 2 identical racquets that they would be able to tell the difference when hitting a ball.

Pro_Tour_630
10-02-2006, 09:42 AM
what's 0.02mm between friends? i can see someone noticing the diff between 15L and 18 but telling the diff between 17L and 18? anything other than Bow Brand (as NBM satates runs thin) and I would never tell the difference. very hard for me to believe that if someone was blindfolded and had a 17L and 18g at exact same tension in 2 identical racquets that they would be able to tell the difference when hitting a ball.


again not the point, could it be the fact that it is thicker that it might be a tittle more durable? two identical strings only differ in gauge thickness by .000001mm( I am exaggerating hear)which one is more likely to be more durable?

but if you insist, check out for example gamma TNT2 pro plus 17L and gamma TNT2 18g, they are almost identical in construction but differ in gauge. I would hope that some can tell the difference in play, I sure can even blind fold, can you? lets hear it from others who have tried both?

Pro_Tour_630
10-02-2006, 09:59 AM
Bow16 is similar in thickness to most 17g strings in practical use and their 17g is like an 18g.

Bow16 is 1.30mm, how is that different than all Klip gut/Babolate gut/BDE gut 16g which are all also 1.30mm gauge strings? are they all similar in thickness to most 17g strings in practical use as you put it? you ment Bow 16L which is 1.27mm (only.03mm difference). Just like you see the difference between 16g and 16L there is also a difference between 17L and 18g even if it just .02mm for example

Pro_Tour_630
10-02-2006, 10:15 AM
This string is not gut like at all, it has great spin and I like that alot along with it being light.

I would recomend you just simply use biphase 18g as that is what is felt and played like.

The legend series is very unique, nothing like tonic+

I agreee with jackson, legend "18g" does not feel gut like, the feel reminded me of phenom XRC 18g (even though 1.18mm it felt thicker) which had many complaints on the boards for snaping prematurely

NoBadMojo
10-02-2006, 10:18 AM
Michael I really dont care what the package indicates...I think most who know strings would say the Bow strings run thin for their listed guages. That was the only point I was making in the hopes that people may pay heed and for example, if they normally use a 17g in abnother string, they may wish to drop down to the 16 in the Bow Brand and they will likely experience similar durability and playability..pretty simple, and I thought this is why we post here. I have no idea why you wish to extend this discussion. If you dont feel as i do, that their guages run thin in ACTUAL USE, that's fine, but i think most would say they do

Richie Rich
10-02-2006, 11:07 AM
but if you insist, check out for example gamma TNT2 pro plus 17L and gamma TNT2 18g, they are almost identical in construction but differ in gauge. I would hope that some can tell the difference in play, I sure can even blind fold, can you?

they are not the exact same string, so yes they will feel different. i was referrring to using the exact same string in 2 racquets with identical set ups (weight, balance, etc) and the fact that 99.9% of the people wouldn't know if they were hitting with 17L or 18 string. The 0.01% of people that say they can feel the difference are most likely extremely anal retentive.

Pro_Tour_630
10-02-2006, 11:38 AM
they are not the exact same string, so yes they will feel different. i was referrring to using the exact same string in 2 racquets with identical set ups (weight, balance, etc) and the fact that 99.9% of the people wouldn't know if they were hitting with 17L or 18 string. The 0.01% of people that say they can feel the difference are most likely extremely anal retentive.

OK then Pacific Prime gut 17L and Pacific Prime gut 18g? there is a difference in play durability and feel. if there is not why does Pacific even bother making them? surely not for amatures

Pro_Tour_630
10-02-2006, 11:58 AM
Michael I really dont care what the package indicates...I think most who know strings would say the Bow strings run thin for their listed guages. That was the only point I was making in the hopes that people may pay heed and for example, if they normally use a 17g in abnother string, they may wish to drop down to the 16 in the Bow Brand and they will likely experience similar durability and playability..pretty simple, and I thought this is why we post here. I have no idea why you wish to extend this discussion. If you dont feel as i do, that their guages run thin in ACTUAL USE, that's fine, but i think most would say they do

YES, I agree that their BOW gaugs run thin in general and do you agree that Klip legend "18g" is not really an 18g that simply saying it is durable for an 18g is false? One last question do you consider Gamma professional "18g" which is 1.22mm an 18g? yes or no? you can not say that Gamma professional 18g is very durable for an 18g, it is 1.22mm for crying out loud!!!! and in the eyes of many I would hope it should be 17g if not 17L. Look, string companies are playing a game, they want to sell us playable thin strings but want to make us belive that they are durable when in fact they are not, so they are trying to outsmart one another with this gauge discrepancy thats all.

Pro_Tour_630
10-02-2006, 12:10 PM
i prefer the klip gut to anything else just based on the price vs performance aspect - for the money klip is the best gut, IMO of course.


I see, sorry if I poopooed all over your favorite string,

you asked about durability of Klip legend "18g" how do you find the durability of the 18g legend? i've used the 17 before and it was ok. just wondering about the 18. and now you know

Richie Rich
10-02-2006, 12:28 PM
I see, sorry if I poopooed all over your favorite string,

that's got nothing to do with it. i could care less what other people like or don't like. FWIW, i used to use bow brand until the price went up and their quality seemed to go a little south.

anyway, why are we arguing over string gauges? so silly.

NoBadMojo
10-02-2006, 01:04 PM
YES, I agree that their BOW gaugs run thin in general and do you agree that Klip legend "18g" is not really an 18g that simply saying it is durable for an 18g is false? One last question do you consider Gamma professional "18g" which is 1.22mm an 18g? yes or no? you can not say that Gamma professional 18g is very durable for an 18g, it is 1.22mm for crying out loud!!!! and in the eyes of many I would hope it should be 17g if not 17L. Look, string companies are playing a game, they want to sell us playable thin strings but want to make us belive that they are durable when in fact they are not, so they are trying to outsmart one another with this gauge discrepancy thats all.

OK..that was the ONLY point I was making. I never said the 18g is durable I dontt hink..i dont know of any 18g gut strings that are.I have no experience w. Gamma Pro string as I am not a fan of Gamma so why would I bring that up? I also think the Legend18pockets great and is def thinner than their 17 and that the Klip gauges correspond to what is within the range of 'normal'. I dont pay much attention to the mm measurements of strings, and am not disputing there are discrepencies..it's an imperfect world. Also, I am not arguing..i was merely trying to make the one point. I have no idea where all this stuff came from ;O

tlm
10-02-2006, 01:50 PM
Quit wasting your money on those second rate gut strings+get the best, pacific toughgut!!

Richie Rich
10-02-2006, 01:53 PM
Quit wasting your money on those second rate gut strings+get the best, pacific toughgut!!
maybe if tw starts carrying it but until then i'll stick with klip

Pro_Tour_630
10-02-2006, 02:50 PM
anyway, why are we arguing over string gauges? so silly.

not only it happens to be a category on TW, it is associated with durability/playability and it is the most important factor for me in deciding on a string, invest in a digital caliper and you will know why.

gauge category:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/catpage.html?CREF=60

17L's where I think alot of those "18g's" should be listed under, notice the range between 1.18mm-1.24mm don't you think klip legend gut 1.20mm should be in this section?
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/catthumbs.html?CREF=65

WOW!!! the 18g bunch, big range 1.10mm and all the way up to1.22mm: where some should not even be in this category for obvious reasons, like the 1.22mm gamma professional or the wilson stamina 1.22 (ultra thin yet durable reads the label on the package, yeah right, it is 1.22mm, very thick if you ask me)
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/catthumbs.html?CREF=66

It is like you telling me not too many people can tell between a 1/4 grip and an 1/8, (or 4 and 7/16 agassi's grip size somewhere between 1/2 and 3/8, can you tell the difference?) and who cares not too many people use them anyway or the difference between a 92sq and 93sq frames and so on.

Pro_Tour_630
10-02-2006, 03:13 PM
Quit wasting your money on those second rate gut strings+get the best, pacific toughgut!!

TW should contact Pacific and see if they can carry the line again? they had them few years ago, have you heard of Pacific Tournament pro tour gut 18g?

Sampras strung with Babolat natural gut 18g that was very thin can someone verify the gauge of babolat's natural gut 18g in mm? thanks

Richie Rich
10-02-2006, 04:19 PM
It is like you telling me not too many people can tell between a 1/4 grip and an 1/8, (or 4 and 7/16 agassi's grip size somewhere between 1/2 and 3/8, can you tell the difference?) and who cares not too many people use them anyway or the difference between a 92sq and 93sq frames and so on.

you made your point, although i'm not so sure what was anymore. however, your examples above are a little too extreme. 4 1/4 and 4 1/8 grip? most people will tell the diff IF it's the same racquet from the same mfg.

4 1/2 and 4 7/16? this is where you are reaching. that's 1/16 of an inch. I'll bet my house that not even someone as "sensitive" as you could tell the difference. Unless you are a chiropractor or something.

92 vs 93? having read most of your prestige posts i'm sure you could tell the difference here. :rolleyes:

poor robkat - we've hijacked his thread - apologies.