Video of serve speed at baseline

[drakulie]

Here are a few vids with the radar on the baseline. The radar was placed directly in the middle of the center mark, and sideline of the baseline. Please note, the speeds shown are not actual speeds of the ball as it reaches the baseline. Rather, the speed the radar has clocked the ball traveling as it approaches the baseline.

79 mph:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo4bkssVVY4

82 mph:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8JkyTBiyPk

Here is a serve speed clocked with the radar against the back fence, 21'3" from the baseline.

43 mph:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKLUEvGwIes

[drakulie]

Here are a few serves from the front view. The video camera was placed on top of the net, a little more towards the Deuce side. All serves were over 100.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SBNjkWFbzE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTYsI6hBrTU

[shindemac]

OK, Drakkie. Let's see some vids of your groundstroke game!

[Duzza]

Man, i love the arm pullback it looks awesome for a Middle aged bloke. Yeah show us some groundies too!

[raiden031]

I'd say thats a solid 3.0 serve there.

[kevhen]

So from the racquet the ball is moving around 100 but then is about 80 mph when it crosses the net and then is about 40mph when it crosses the baseline? How far away does the radar still pick up a signal? Will it record speed as the ball is moving away like if you put the radar gun behind you when serving? Or will it just then pick up your racquet speed before contact?

3.5-4.0 serve depending on how many you get in. If you can get in close to half around 100mph, I would say 4.0. Your technique doesn't look quite as grooved or as consistent as most 4.0s I play but most 4.0s just hit 80-90mph. The new 4.0 kid I am hitting with goes 100-110 mph and played on a state champ team but his percentage is probably more like 30%. His toss is too low but yours looks good although maybe a little too high.

[Mike Cottrill]

3.5-4.0 serve depending on how many you get in. If you can get in close to half around 100mph, I would say 4.0. Your technique doesn't look quite as grooved or as consistent as most 4.0s I play but most 4.0s just hit 80-90mph. The new 4.0 kid I am hitting with goes 100-110 mph and played on a state champ team but his percentage is probably more like 30%. His toss is too low but yours looks good although maybe a little too high.
That's pretty darn interesting considering your serve.:rolleyes:

[drakulie]

3.5-4.0 serve depending on how many you get in. If you can get in close to half around 100mph, I would say 4.0. Your technique doesn't look quite as grooved or as consistent as most 4.0s I play but most 4.0s just hit 80-90mph.

Kehven, I hate to break this to you, but if I have a 3.5-4.0 serve, your serve is like a 2.0. There are 5.0 guys that would love to have my serve. In addition, as I have already pointed out most 4.0's can't even break the 90 barrier, and are serving in the 70-85 range with no spin. I hit 95-105 consitently throughout a match and all my serves have severe topspin, and I have good placement. My second serve isn't far in pace from my first serve, but has even more spin.

Here is the bounce on my second serve. Mind you the radar was placed on the other side of the net (half-way up the service line), and was still clocked at 84 mph, the fence is over 21 feet away, and is still hitting the fence with good pace halfway up the fence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cH4w0H1V5c

3.5-4.0? LMFAO

[kevhen]

That serve is two feet long but it does have great kick. What is your NTRP rating? Do you think your serve is 5.5 level if the 5.0s are in love with your serve? The 5.5s I know all hit between 110-120mph with their serves to go with excellent ground games.

[drakulie]

Kehven, when you see a 3.5 or 4.0 player that has tehcnique like this, then we could talk.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/drakulie/100_0073.jpg

This is almost text book.
1. Tossing arm straight.
2. Knee bend.
3. Hips in the court.
4. Trophy pose.
5. Racquet back
6. Complete racquet drop.
7. Racquet coming at ball on it's side.
8. Pronation.
9. etc.

By the way, that serve was a few inches long, not 2 feet. It just looks that way because of the speed and camera angle.

I am a 4.5 player, and could be 5.0+ if I went out on the court and hit more than the 4-5 times a month I play now. I just don't have the time anymore.

You are absolutely dreaming if you think you have seen 3.5 or 4.0 players with technique as solid as mine. Hell, there are 4.5-5.0 players that don't have as good technique. I have been playing since I was 9, and played competitively until 19 (including a college that won the National Championship the year before I got there). I just took it up again 2 years ago after a 14 year layoff.

PS: On all these videos I am serving with a bruise on the arch of my left foot, which prohibits me from launching into the court. The only reason I originally posted my service video was because people were skeptical I could not hit 100. So I did it any ways without the aid of my left foot.

[kevhen]

I guess because you don't launch up into the ball and barely come off the ground, it doesn't look that great to me but I believe you that you go over 100mph but I do know many young guys who can serve 100+mph that are still 3.5-4.0. I am sure your groundstrokes are even better if you could be 5.0+ if you played more.

Perfect technique doesn't mean squat to me. It's about court results. If you won college matches then you must be very good and still have some of your old game left in you. Do you play 4.5 tournaments then or just hit for fun these days?

[Mike Cottrill]

Perfect technique doesn't mean squat to me.

When will you learn? With out technique, court results will not be there.

[drakulie]

Couple of things Kehven.

- If technique "doesn't mean squat", then you probably would of been better off not using that term in your earlier post.

- Although I agree that in the lower levels of tennis many guys "look good", but lose to players who "look bad". However, when one has good technique and is able to impose his game, he will not lose to a player with bad technique. So, usually it is not the case that the guy who "looks good" has better technique, he is just more willing to wail at tha ball and go for hard shots and winners. Usually, both of these guys have comparable technique (both bad), with one being more patient.

- Somebody hitting a 100 mile an hour serve once does not mean sh!t. Any goon off the street who has never played tennis could pick up a racquet take a swing, get lucky and hit a 100 mile an hour serve. However, can they get it in? Can they do it consitently? , Can they get it around the box with different spins? When you have good technique it becomes easier to hit that 100 serve consistently, with spins, and throughout the course of the match.

-Last but not least. Without proper technique you will never improve to the upper levels of the game. Case in point, I have never seen a pro who has bad technique.

By the way, I don't play competitively anymore-just for fun and a workout. However, I was signed up by a friend in a 4.0 league a little over a year ago. The league was 10 matches. I did not lose one set the entire season. I even gave up my playoff spot at the end of the season because I though it was unfair to the guys in the league.

[greengoblin69]

to tell you the truth drakulie, i have a serve speed of 120 mph, hit 125 once on a radar, and i'm a pro rated 4.0, and i play alot of 4.0 tourneys and some guys serve just as hard sometimes even harder than i do, and hit a percetage of about 50 almost 60 percent on first serves, and they also have lot's of variety, i agree that you dont need a pretty motion, infact i have a motion similar to roddick's pretty herky jerky kinda spazatic if that's a word, it's just what feels comfortable. But i'd say your serve is like strong 3.5 maybe 4.0, but you proabaly know variety is a better asset than power.

[edberg505]

I did not lose one set the entire season. I even gave up my playoff spot at the end of the season because I though it was unfair to the guys in the league.


Drakulie, you should play for the 4.0 team at my club. Apparently they don't give a damn about being unfair. LOL

[edberg505]

Kehven, I hate to break this to you, but if I have a 3.5-4.0 serve, your serve is like a 2.0. There are 5.0 guys that would love to have my serve. In addition, as I have already pointed out most 4.0's can't even break the 90 barrier, and are serving in the 70-85 range with no spin. I hit 95-105 consitently throughout a match and all my serves have severe topspin, and I have good placement. My second serve isn't far in pace from my first serve, but has even more spin.

Here is the bounce on my second serve. Mind you the radar was placed on the other side of the net (half-way up the service line), and was still clocked at 84 mph, the fence is over 21 feet away, and is still hitting the fence with good pace halfway up the fence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cH4w0H1V5c

3.5-4.0? LMFAO

Very nice kick serve. That's pretty much where all my serves hit the fence. I see no point in hitting a hard flat serve people can just block that sh!t back. Now a 98 or 100 mph serve with kick and spin is deadly!

[tennis_nerd22]

drakulie, ive got a question:

Why do you always try so hard to prove yourself? I'd love to have your serve, im sure you love it, and its probably at least a 5.0 level, if not better. so what if someone who's dumb thinks its 3.0 or 4.0 or whatever. why do you want to prove yourself so badly?

btw that aside, i'd do anything to have your serve :D

[drakulie]

to tell you the truth drakulie, i have a serve speed of 120 mph, hit 125 once on a radar,

No you don't. If you do, video tape it with a radar and post it. I highly doubt someone who could serve at that speed, and with the slice you say you have in your own post, "Playing a giant of a serve and volleyer ", would be serving underhand.

and i'm a pro rated 4.0, and i play alot of 4.0 tourneys and some guys serve just as hard sometimes even harder than i do, and hit a percetage of about 50 almost 60 percent on first serves,

Bull sh!t. Anybody serving faster than 125, and getting 60 % of their first serves in---- is college, and pro level. Not even the pros do that you moron. In addition, you have only been playing a year. Get a life.

Quite frankly, I doubt you are even a 4.0 (2.0 maybe) from the advice you ask on that post, your first post, and your ridiculous comments here.

[drakulie]

so what if someone who's dumb thinks its 3.0 or 4.0 or whatever. why do you want to prove yourself so badly?

btw that aside, i'd do anything to have your serve :D


First of all thanks. I do it, because there are a lot of people who are genuinely looking for advice, trying to find out how to improve their strokes, and don't know any better. When these people see the post Kehven wrote saying I have a "3.5-4.0 serve with bad techinque" they might believe the way I hit is bad technique. Especially if they see his serve (not sure if you have ever seen it), and then read that he says he is a 4.4.5 player. They might very well try to copy his serve, thinking since he is a "higher level" player. When in fact, his technique is awful. It might get the job done, but he does not have good technique at all.

In addition, now you have this noob saying he plays against guys who serve over 125 mph with a serve percentage of 60 % and they are 4.0 players. This is just flat out misleading people who might not know any better.

In addition, whenever someone takes the time to post thier vids and ask for help, I always give them good advice, never rag on them or mislead them, always thank them for posting thier vids, and wish them Good Luck. Yet, some of the advice people give on these boards is horrible, inaccurate, and one can tell they have no clue what they are talking about. Unfortunately, people who don't know any better follow these noobs advice, and myths they perpetrate.

For example, there are people on these boards who genuinely belive they are 5.0's, yet they have only been playing 1 year. They get this type of mentality from other people on these boards who say........I am a 5.0, here are my forehand videos (which coincidentally suck), and the guy watching it says, "I hit better than that so I must be a 5.0 too".

I feel it is wrong to mislead people this way, so hope the little bit of advice I can give can genuinely help people become better and more solid tennis players.

[drakulie]

Drakulie, you should play for the 4.0 team at my club. Apparently they don't give a damn about being unfair. LOL

I just joined the league because a friend recommended it after playing with me a few times, when I started playing again. I did not necessarily want to play in a league, rather find some hitting partners to get a workout. So I joined with the hopes of finding some people I could hit with occasionally.

[tennisfanatic]

I prefer to see you posting a video giving some tips on serve rather than telling people that your serve's speed is like this blah blah blah....!!!!

[Duzza]

Drakulie don't listen to these fools, they are just trying to make you feel bad. 4.0 serve? Please....that is easilly 4.5 if not 5.0.

[Ten.Is]

Drakulie...don't worry about what these guys are saying. As long as you know what your skill is, what others say shouldn't bother you. From what I've seen in your other post with your serve video's you definitely have a more than solid serve...a serve I can only dream about. Anyways, don't worry about these other guys...just haters, thats all.

[drakulie]

I prefer to see you posting a video giving some tips on serve rather than telling people that your serve's speed is like this blah blah blah....!!!!

.....and I have.....many times, using stills from my serve video, including people who have contacted me privately, and peopel who I have posted on their threads to help them with their serve.

In addition, trying to help others with this post......

THIS POST was done as a follow up to a "calculator & formula" maverick1, and Mike Cotril are working on so people who don't have radars can calculate their serve speeds. They asked me to take stills of my video to be able to count the frames from contact to ground, to see if their formula is accurate. So, even with this post I am helping others who can't afford a radar.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=121904


In addition, they and I were interested in seeing the service speeds at the baseline and back fence in order to give people a "reference". If you think it is easy to go out, set up a camera, set up a radar, edit the video, then upload it to the computer, then upload it to youtube, take stills from the video, upload them to your computer, upload them to photobucket, etc. and then attached them all here, for the sake of helping others then you give it a try. If not, at least find out what is going on before talking crap.

[drakulie]

Duzza/Ten.is, thanks. I don't care what they say about me as I don;t compete anymore, and have taken more of a liking to coaching and helping others, including when I play. I always take time to help other who ask.

It is more the "misconception" , and "myths" that are perpetrated that I do not feel is right.

If you guys and others are getting something out of it, then that is great!

[MasterTS]

Very nice kick serve. That's pretty much where all my serves hit the fence. I see no point in hitting a hard flat serve people can just block that sh!t back. Now a 98 or 100 mph serve with kick and spin is deadly!

I don't know about that being a nice kicker.. Mine simply have much more kick and heavy spin.. That serve in particular was just a nice heater with some spin, not really a kicker.

[MasterTS]

The 5.5s I know all hit between 110-120mph with their serves to go with excellent ground games.

Sorry this statement is incorrect. Very few 5.5 players hit 110+.

At the 5.5 level the serve is placed well and some players may have some power and great kick but I'd estimate less then 15% of solid 5.5 players hit 110-120mph lol..

We're talking about speeds up to players like Youzhny lol... remember his match against roddick, he hit mainly 110-120mph and sometimes went for a 125mph heater.

I've seen enough 5.5 players and strong 5.5 players that win USTA tournaments in southern california to know this statement is completely wrong, kevhen.

[MasterTS]

Id say drak's serve is 4.5-5.0ish. Lots of guys can produce some heat, moreso during practice than in an actually match.. some can produce the heat with consistency in a match but few can place a big serve.

Can you place this serve down the T, in the body, and outwide at will? If you can then the serve is 5.5 quality.

I've seen great open level players with very weak serves but amazing groundstrokes. Serves don't tell the story of how high level a player actually is.

[greengoblin69]

No you don't. If you do, video tape it with a radar and post it. I highly doubt someone who could serve at that speed, and with the slice you say you have in your own post, "Playing a giant of a serve and volleyer ", would be serving underhand.



Bull sh!t. Anybody serving faster than 125, and getting 60 % of their first serves in---- is college, and pro level. Not even the pros do that you moron. In addition, you have only been playing a year. Get a life.

Quite frankly, I doubt you are even a 4.0 (2.0 maybe) from the advice you ask on that post, your first post, and your ridiculous comments here.


dude you gotta chill, take in consideration, i played baseball since i was 6 and last year i played baseball i was a starter in AAA,but the game got boring and uninteresting, some people have talent, like you said some people can just pick up a racquet and hit a 100 mph,maybe not get it in, but with technique and some lessons i'm sure they could do it in no time.Also why can't someone who's taken tons of lessons and played atleast 3 times a week in that year and in 2 of those 12 months played everyday( not joking gotta love school holidays hahaha). I find it easy to serve, and yea about me being some 2.0 player why don't you get a life buddy, what are you? I've won a couple 4.0 tourneys and played a 4.5 tourney and made it to the 3rd round, if you want a video so bad, i'll post one, i got nothing to hide, give me sometime to get a video camera.

[greengoblin69]

too add to my last post, the underhand serve thing, why not? if it get's u the point, why the hating? If a guy is like 4 feet behind the baseline and is waiting for a heater, why not pull the blanket from under him?

[drakulie]

dude you gotta chill, take in consideration, i played baseball since i was 6 and last year i played baseball i was a starter in AAA,but the game got boring and uninteresting, some people have talent, like you said some people can just pick up a racquet and hit a 100 mph,maybe not get it in, but with technique and some lessons i'm sure they could do it in no time.

I totally agree. However, hitting 120+ consistently and getting it in 50-60% is a different story. Pros, as in getting paid, playing since they were 6-7 years old, 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, and reaching Grand Slam Finals don't and most can't do what you claim to do so easily. And let's not even start with the "variety" and "slice" you claim to have.

Yet with a 120+ serve with wicked slice, in your latest thread on "Playing a giant of a serve and volleyer", you claimed to have served underhand in order to get an ace (2 of them I believe). Here is the link:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=122782

You also claim several other 4.0 players hit faster than you and with more consistency. That would mean they are hitting over 125 mph at 60-70%. I don't think so. Not even the greatest server of all time (Pete Sampras) did that as consistently as you claim. Not even pros today are capable of doing what you claim you and your 4.0 opponents are doing at will. You need to seriously get real, as this is already too funny.

In addition, here is your first post on this forum from two weeks ago, where you ask for advice on the serve and volley game:

lol i've never had my serve radared, would be cool to see i guess. My old coach used to be a top junior in canada, and he said he serves around 125 and his other students said i serve a bit slower than he does, but that my kicker has more work than his, which is pretty impressive. I remember i played a match against my old coach and i hit 3 straight aces through the back fence with about 4 feet of pop, that might give you an idea of how hard that is, maybe u can make a guesstimation haha.

here is the link: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=120038

So, you have never been radared. Are basing your serve speed on what your coach claims to hit and people telling you, you hit a little slower than he does. And, you hit the ball with it hitting the back fence at about 4 feet. Here is an 84 mph serve (clocked at the net, not at contact) that hit the back fence (21 feet from the basline) at well over 5 feet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cH4w0H1V5c


You have absolutely no clue. Could you hit a 100 mph serve? Maybe, I don't know. Can you do what you claim you and your 4.0 opponents can do? NOT A CHANCE. Truth is, most guys at the 4.0 level have never faced a 100+ serve. Yet in the aforementioned thread you claim they easily are blocking back your 120 MPH serve. And sillier still, that many of your opponents hit faster than 125 and 60% + consistency. LMFAO!

[tennisfanatic]

.....and I have.....many times, using stills from my serve video, including people who have contacted me privately, and peopel who I have posted on their threads to help them with their serve.

In addition, trying to help others with this post......

THIS POST was done as a follow up to a "calculator & formula" maverick1, and Mike Cotril are working on so people who don't have radars can calculate their serve speeds. They asked me to take stills of my video to be able to count the frames from contact to ground, to see if their formula is accurate. So, even with this post I am helping others who can't afford a radar.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=121904


In addition, they and I were interested in seeing the service speeds at the baseline and back fence in order to give people a "reference". If you think it is easy to go out, set up a camera, set up a radar, edit the video, then upload it to the computer, then upload it to youtube, take stills from the video, upload them to your computer, upload them to photobucket, etc. and then attached them all here, for the sake of helping others then you give it a try. If not, at least find out what is going on before talking crap.

Well said. i stand corrected.:rolleyes:

[AJK1]

Seems like a whole lot of egotistic wanking going on from all parties around here. Just prove it in matches, i say.

[drakulie]

Seems like a whole lot of egotistic wanking going on from all parties around here. Just prove it in matches, i say.


Whatever. I've already "backed up my egotistic wanking".

However:

- 125+ MPH serve?
- 60%+ first serve percentage?
- Playing tennis for a little over one year?
- 4.0 level?

....that is "wanking", and I'll believe it when I see it.

[La Bomba]

I ought to post a video of my serve, and then you guys can rate my serve.

[La Bomba]

By the way Drakulie, thats a nice serve you have there.

[kevhen]

Dude, I never said you had bad technique (just not perfect technique) and never said that my service technique was better than yours. Who cares, just go play the game. You have a good serve, have fun with it.

[kevhen]

I have seen the D1 University guys here radared and they all serve between 115-120mph. Of course they wouldn't hit all their serves that hard in a match but that is what they are capable of. They have very good technique and are 5.5s. Justine Henin hits 115 mph serves so what is the big deal about a 115mph serve.

[MasterTS]

I have seen the D1 University guys here radared and they all serve between 115-120mph. ...They have very good technique and are 5.5s. .

D1 player and only 5.5? Must be pretty weak team.. The D2 players in cali are 5.5 and 6.0s already.

[Ten_is]

I like Drakulie's serve. Pull back and stance,.. everything is nice. Just still looks a little stiff after the hit though (followthrough). Very nice knee bend and pronation. Nice vertical arm toss and trophy position. I can learn from this :)

[BigServer1]

I love these threads. Drakulie has shown that he has balls bigger than all of ours combined by posting his serves online for all to see. To the 120mph guy...please post it here with radar. I don't think that you have ever seen a 120 mph serve in person. I have and it's scary. To anyone here who looks at these videos and says..."hmmm, if that's 100mph then I must serve 652mph, or nice serves Drak, you must be at least a 3.5", either post it with radar, or stop posting in these threads.

BTW Drak, that 84 Mph kicker, how fast do you think it would have been if that radar had been closer to you?

[kevhen]

http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/usta/doc/content/doc_13_7372.pdf?12/6/2004%204:12:22%20PM


This says top ranked D2 players are 5.5 using the NTRP guidelines. You must be a ranked D1 team or D1 player to be 6.0.

It says high school experience should self-rate at 3.0 and successful HS experience should start at 3.5.

[MasterTS]

http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/usta/doc/content/doc_13_7372.pdf?12/6/2004%204:12:22%20PM

This says top ranked D2 players are 5.5 using the NTRP guidelines. You must be a ranked D1 team or D1 player to be 6.0.

It says high school experience should self-rate at 3.0 and successful HS experience should start at 3.5.


I dont go by wht they publish, just results from tournaments.

According to the chart, it would also put the guy at age 31-40 lol

[ShooterMcMarco]

Drak, did you say before that you used a digital camera to capture your serves? Or was it an actual camcorder. If its the latter, I might see if my camera has better quality than my old Hi-8 camcorder.

[kevhen]

Are those satellite 6.5 level tournaments or do they have 6.0 tournaments? They only have Open level (5.0+) tournaments around here but the winners are often 6.0 players.

[kevhen]

The charts shows that if you are ages 31-40 and were once a top ranked D1 player (6.0) then you should self-rate at 5.5.

[theother_505]

Drakulie, you should play for the 4.0 team at my club. Apparently they don't give a damn about being unfair. LOL

I don't know a single 4.0 at that club, on that team or not, that couldn't beat you in straights, Mr. Edberg. P.S. Why don't you go check Southwest's early ratings? I could always post a link

[drakulie]

Dude, I never said you had bad technique (just not perfect technique) and never said that my service technique was better than yours.

As for your serve vs. mine........

For the record, when you posted your serve video, (if I remember correctly) you and Bungalo Bill were going at it pretty hard. He was saying you do not serve with proper technique, you launch yourself (I believe illegally), into the court, etc. He was basically dogging you, and being extremely rude.

I defended your serve in that thread saying, "If it gets him free points, and is effective-then that is all that matters". I also mentioned you seemed to have an extremely nice slice serve.

My concern, which I already posted earlier is the misleading information people on this forum provide. Which includes your earlier post.

[drakulie]

BTW Drak, that 84 Mph kicker, how fast do you think it would have been if that radar had been closer to you?

Honestly Bigserver, I don't know. It may be 4-5 mph faster. But that would be speculation. I suppose I could count the number of frames from contact to ground, and use the serve speed calculator maverick 1, and Mike Cotril put together. I'll see if I could do it and follow up.

[Duzza]

I ought to post a video of my serve, and then you guys can rate my serve.
Man you gotta do it! I wanna see this 120 mile serve :P

[edberg505]

I don't know a single 4.0 at that club, on that team or not, that couldn't beat you in straights, Mr. Edberg. P.S. Why don't you go check Southwest's early ratings? I could always post a link

Ok, you got me I'm a 3.5 player. B!tch please!


Well, well, well. Some anonymous person is trying to call me out? I tell you what, you go get some 3.5 rated person at my club (if you even know where or what the name of my club is which I highly doubt) and tell them to meet me at the designated place, and the designated time, and I will gladly degsinate his ass. In fact go talk to the best 4.5 player at my club and quite possibly the state since I have hit and played with him a few times (you should know his name if you are who you claim to be) and ask him if I'm a 4.0 player.

And now for this alleged link that you supposedly have, I assume that it rates me at a 4.0 some years back, probably around 2001 or 2002 that was probably the first time I decided to pick up a racquet since graduating college and decided to play in a tournament. So I asked the director what should I play since I haven't really played since college being almost 4 years ago. He first told me that he could not find a record of me having played D1 college so he said I could self rate at 4.0 which is what I did. But, he said go ahead and play the 4.5's, so I did. I actually don't even remember what happend in those matches. I think I lost my first match I played in, he was a decent player, and my second match I had to retire from because I had a shoulder injury. Fast forward to today. Now I know for a fact that you can self rate and play in the 4.0's if there is no record of you having played D1 college tennis or if you never played in anything higher than a 4.0. This is why when I first joined the club and I still had not been playing much that they wanted me to join the team. The 4.5 leauge at my club also wanted me to play with them but I had already played in a few 4.5 matches with another team, thus I couldn't play for them. So, if you claim to be from alburquerque and claim to know me then you know that I am no 4.0 player and that everyone who knows me, knows that I'm no 4.0 player. Also, go check with some of the better juniors in the state to see if I'm a 4.0 player as well since I've hit and played with them, if you know them which I doubt. Or if you've got the testicular fortitude to play me yourself then we can have at it. Which I don't think will happen because I don't think you are who you say you are. If so, you know where to find me.

In fact I can do you one better, I will record a match with a 4.0 player and post it here.

[theother_505]

Ok, you got me I'm a 3.5 player. B!tch please!


Well, well, well. Some anonymous person is trying to call me out? I tell you what, you go get some 3.5 rated person at my club (if you even know where or what the name of my club is which I highly doubt) and tell them to meet me at the designated place, and the designated time, and I will gladly degsinate his ass. In fact go talk to the best 4.5 player at my club and quite possibly the state since I have hit and played with him a few times (you should know his name if you are who you claim to be) and ask him if I'm a 4.0 player.

And now for this alleged link that you supposedly have, I assume that it rates me at a 4.0 some years back, probably around 2001 or 2002 that was probably the first time I decided to pick up a racquet since graduating college and decided to play in a tournament. So I asked the director what should I play since I haven't really played since college being almost 4 years ago. He first told me that he could not find a record of me having played D1 college so he said I could self rate at 4.0 which is what I did. But, he said go ahead and play the 4.5's, so I did. I actually don't even remember what happend in those matches. I think I lost my first match I played in, he was a decent player, and my second match I had to retire from because I had a shoulder injury. Fast forward to today. Now I know for a fact that you can self rate and play in the 4.0's if there is no record of you having played D1 college tennis or if you never played in anything higher than a 4.0. This is why when I first joined the club and I still had not been playing much that they wanted me to join the team. The 4.5 leauge at my club also wanted me to play with them but I had already played in a few 4.5 matches with another team, thus I couldn't play for them. So, if you claim to be from alburquerque and claim to know me then you know that I am no 4.0 player and that everyone who knows me, knows that I'm no 4.0 player. Also, go check with some of the better juniors in the state to see if I'm a 4.0 player as well since I've hit and played with them, if you know them which I doubt. Or if you've got the testicular fortitude to play me yourself then we can have at it. Which I don't think will happen because I don't think you are who you say you are. If so, you know where to find me.

In fact I can do you one better, I will record a match with a 4.0 player and post it here.

I recognize you from the videos. I've seen you at a few tournaments here and there and I don't think you suit the 5.0-5.5 status that you've given yourself. You're athletic, you have visually suitable strokes and you have a big serve, but you don't have the game to warrant either over-hyping yourself or short-selling others. I happen to follow junior tennis and I would be happy to talk with some folks if you give me some names. I recognize the lad in some of your videos from a few years back. For his sake, I won't use his name, but he played at Albuquerque High and I have seen him teaching at what I believe is "your club." And that link happens to be the early ratings from THIS YEAR in which you, who shall remain anonymous, were computer rated BACK DOWN to 4.0. I guess that suits your 1-9 record at 4.5. And for the record, that one win came with who I believe to be the best 4.5 in the city, maybe even a 5.0. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I am standing 100% behind the men that you slandered and betrayed on "your club's team" because I happen to know a good lot of them and they are more deserving of a 4.5 title than yourself. So if you're going to give the cold hard facts, make sure that you address both sides, so as to keep that credibility that you so crave via posting on this forum.

[maverick1]

First of all thanks. I do it, because there are a lot of people who are genuinely looking for advice, trying to find out how to improve their strokes, and don't know any better. When these people see the post Kehven wrote saying I have a "3.5-4.0 serve with bad techinque" they might believe the way I hit is bad technique. Especially if they see his serve (not sure if you have ever seen it), and then read that he says he is a 4.4.5 player. They might very well try to copy his serve, thinking since he is a "higher level" player. When in fact, his technique is awful. It might get the job done, but he does not have good technique at all.

In addition, now you have this noob saying he plays against guys who serve over 125 mph with a serve percentage of 60 % and they are 4.0 players. This is just flat out misleading people who might not know any better.

In addition, whenever someone takes the time to post thier vids and ask for help, I always give them good advice, never rag on them or mislead them, always thank them for posting thier vids, and wish them Good Luck. Yet, some of the advice people give on these boards is horrible, inaccurate, and one can tell they have no clue what they are talking about. Unfortunately, people who don't know any better follow these noobs advice, and myths they perpetrate.

For example, there are people on these boards who genuinely belive they are 5.0's, yet they have only been playing 1 year. They get this type of mentality from other people on these boards who say........I am a 5.0, here are my forehand videos (which coincidentally suck), and the guy watching it says, "I hit better than that so I must be a 5.0 too".

I feel it is wrong to mislead people this way, so hope the little bit of advice I can give can genuinely help people become better and more solid tennis players.

Drak,

From direct experience, I can say you are certainly encouraging, positive and helpful with people who ask for advice. Half the people seem to just want to rag the guy who posts his videos. And they do it anonymously, and with no evidence of their own credentials.

Not many people post their videos after claiming to be advanced players. I respect you(& edberg) for that. It leaves you open for criticism, and almost certainly being recognized by somebody in this forum.

I think this forum is a better place because of you. Keep up the posts.

[raiden031]

Why do people feel the need to constantly blow smoke up each other's asses? Why overinflate the abilities at certain NTRP levels? A 4.0 player would not make the team at a weak D3 school. Let me repeat that, NOT MAKE THE TEAM. Yet a 4.0 player can consistently serve faster than Pete Sampras and Andy Roddick? PLEASE! As far as I'm concerned, Drakulie is the only member on this board who has proven to know his ass from a hole in the ground. The rest of these claims are all nonsense. Its funny how much 100 mph talk I see around here. People make these rediculous claims, not knowing that their claims are not even do-able by the pros.

To add a post from greengoblin69 on 9/15:
--------------
lol i've never had my serve radared, would be cool to see i guess. My old coach used to be a top junior in canada, and he said he serves around 125 and his other students said i serve a bit slower than he does, but that my kicker has more work than his, which is pretty impressive. I remember i played a match against my old coach and i hit 3 straight aces through the back fence with about 4 feet of pop, that might give you an idea of how hard that is, maybe u can make a guesstimation haha.
--------------

So the students *think* he serves at 125 so it must be true. Hey since you have played 4.0 and 4.5 tournaments, show us your USTA tennislink lookup. Do you have any match results on there you can take screenshots of? Biggest bullsh!tter I've seen to date on this board.

[Duzza]

Why do people feel the need to constantly blow smoke up each other's asses? Why overinflate the abilities at certain NTRP levels? A 4.0 player would not make the team at a weak D3 school. Let me repeat that, NOT MAKE THE TEAM. Yet a 4.0 player can consistently serve faster than Pete Sampras and Andy Roddick? PLEASE! As far as I'm concerned, Drakulie is the only member on this board who has proven to know his ass from a hole in the ground. The rest of these claims are all nonsense. Its funny how much 100 mph talk I see around here. People make these rediculous claims, not knowing that their claims are not even do-able by the pros.
Well thats funny because I happen to have a video of myself serving 130 minimum...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZZmAB3Fio
and yeah andy roddick look a like, i know i get it a lot.

[raiden031]

Not to mention, greengoblin was able to beat a 4.5 player (made it to 3rd round of a 4.5 tournament) after 1.5 YEARS OF PLAYING so I'm sure at this rate he'll be ATP #1 by 2008.

[chapufo1]

First of all thanks. I do it, because there are a lot of people who are genuinely looking for advice, trying to find out how to improve their strokes, and don't know any better. When these people see the post Kehven wrote saying I have a "3.5-4.0 serve with bad techinque" they might believe the way I hit is bad technique. Especially if they see his serve (not sure if you have ever seen it), and then read that he says he is a 4.4.5 player. They might very well try to copy his serve, thinking since he is a "higher level" player. When in fact, his technique is awful. It might get the job done, but he does not have good technique at all.

In addition, now you have this noob saying he plays against guys who serve over 125 mph with a serve percentage of 60 % and they are 4.0 players. This is just flat out misleading people who might not know any better.



No need to hate bro, u don't need to go around saying to the other person that they probably suck. If you don't like hearing that you're a 3.5-4.0 player (from the looks of it your better...) how would they feel if they were called 2.0 players without even evaluating their vids? Chill out.

[drakulie]

how would they feel if they were called 2.0 players without even evaluating their vids? Chill out.

Uhmmm, I have seen his service video, and make a reference to the thread where he posted it. Which is why I said, if he feels my serve is a 3.5-4.0, then his serve is a 2.0.

Furthermore, like I said I don't care about what he feels my rating is, rather I care more about how misleading his observation is, especially when compared to his serve which is severely flawed technically, and he states he is a 4.5 player.

Maybe you should try and read the entire thread.

[drakulie]

mav, raiden thanks. Hopefully you guys are benefiting, and I appreciate your support.

Duzza, too funny! But I thought you used a POG?

[kevhen]

Dude, chill out, your kick serve does look 4.5 level or better if you get them in consistently but your video was one that landed out so you should show us video of about 10 serves in a row with most of those landing in the box if you want a fair and high assessment. Just show us your USTA NTRP rating if you are trying to prove your rating level. I have no doubt you aren't at least 4.0 and likely 4.5 as you have said. Why so up in arms about me saying your serve is at least 3.5 level? It could be 4.5 level but I don't know what percent you get in and you don't show anyone returning your serve. Your technique is good. My technique is 2.0 level which is why I struggle against 4.5 players I guess.


Most of my losses in the last two years are to guys who are or will be rated 4.5, in fact all my losses in both singles and doubles this summer were to guys who will be rated 4.5 in 2007.
http://national.usta.com/leagues/Reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB00E25424D0BC36B584FB2A09783F7E1C&CYear=2006

http://national.usta.com/leagues/Reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB00E25424D0BC36B584FB2A09783F7E1C&CYear=2005

[MasterTS]

Dude, chill out, your kick serve does look 4.5 level or better if you get them in consistently but your video was one that landed out so you should show us video of about 10 serves in a row with most of those landing

GaG me! I don't feel that kicker (if it is a kicker) is that good.. deliberately hitting a big kicker will make the ball have much more height, kick, and spin. It's a good 4.5 serve nonetheless, but a mean kicker it is not. :cool:

[Mike Cottrill]

Dude, chill out, your kick serve does look 4.5 level or better if you get them in consistently but your video was one that landed out so you should show us video of about 10 serves in a row with most of those landing in the box if you want a fair and high assessment. Just show us your USTA NTRP rating if you are trying to prove your rating level. I have no doubt you aren't at least 4.0 and likely 4.5 as you have said. Why so up in arms about me saying your serve is at least 3.5 level? It could be 4.5 level but I don't know what percent you get in and you don't show anyone returning your serve. Your technique is good. My technique is 2.0 level which is why I struggle against 4.5 players I guess.


Most of my losses in the last two years are to guys who are or will be rated 4.5, in fact all my losses in both singles and doubles this summer were to guys who will be rated 4.5 in 2007.
http://national.usta.com/leagues/Reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB00E25424D0BC36B584FB2A09783F7E1C&CYear=2006

http://national.usta.com/leagues/Reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB00E25424D0BC36B584FB2A09783F7E1C&CYear=2005

http://tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/Players.aspx?T=33519 (http://tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/Players.aspx?T=33519)

Can you give us an explanation:.
http://tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/Players.aspx?T=33519 (http://tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/Players.aspx?T=33519)
This tournament does not show you entered and you show you played the open doubles.


This tournament shows you losing in the second round:
http://tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/Draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=33521&E=28

Thanks
Mike

[kevhen]

I think you are looking at tournaments from 2005.

4.0 singles semifinals 2006 loss to eventual champ and 2007 4.5 rated player
http://missourivalley.tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=44190&E=28

Open level Doubles 2006 2nd round 6-3, 6-4 loss to 5.0 and 4.5 rated college players
http://missourivalley.tournaments.usta.com/Tournaments/Draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=44187&E=3

Best results from past years
4.0 singles 2003 finals (95 degree match where I cramped up in the third set but beat that guy this year!)
http://missourivalley.tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/TournamentHome/Results.aspx?T=15182&E=56

4.0 Doubles 2005 final (lost to young club instructor who should have self-rated himself a 4.5)
http://missourivalley.tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/Draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=29397&E=28

[MasterTS]

I think you are looking at last year's tournaments.
4.0 singles semis
http://missourivalley.tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=44190&E=28
Open level
http://missourivalley.tournaments.usta.com/Tournaments/Draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=44187&E=3
Best results from past years
4.0 singles finals
http://missourivalley.tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/TournamentHome/Results.aspx?T=15182&E=56
4.0 Doubles semis
http://missourivalley.tournaments.usta.com/tournaments/Draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=29397&E=28

Gosh, I think you should move to cali, or at least take a vacation down here.. Just wana see how you would do in a 64 draw tournament instread of these dinky 3 matches and you've won the 4.0 tournaments.

[kevhen]

The 4.0 tournies were all 4 rounds but that smaller open level one I entered was a small weak open draw which is why I entered it. Most larger open tournies around here have 32 entries with one paying out $1000 to the winner who is usually a rated D1 player.

Do you all have some tournament results to post? I would like to see a 64 player 4.0 level draw. I bet there would be alot of 3 sets matches with a field that deep and strong. No one else ever seems to post their USTA results on here.

[drakulie]

so you should show us video of about 10 serves in a row with most of those landing in the box if you want a fair and high assessment.

1. I don't want ANY assesment, and did not in any way shape or form post my serve to get one from this forum. If I felt I needed to work on my serve, I would hire a private coach, rather than get advice from here.

2. If I were to ask for an assessment on my serve on this forum, you would be one of the last people I wold consider taking advice from, and this is because you have already shown in this thread (and others) you do not know how to judge technique.

3. I can't post 10 straight serves because I won't be able to upload the file to Youtube. The file would be too large.

Furthermore, since you so desperately need convincing, here is what another TT forum user who I have played against, said about my serve in another thread:

Posted by NoSkillz, page 5- post # 63 & 66.
]"The video does the "sound" of the serve no justice. Because being on the receiving end of the serve you hear a "buzzing/whirling" sound as the ball makes contact with the service box and flyes towards you.

I played with some people at school the other day and it feels like their serves were floating through the air at a leasure pace towards me, compared to the bullet pace of your serve."

Last but not least, this forum has been around a much longer time than I have been a member. Yet of the thousands of times people on this forum including you have claimed --"I could serve 100+", I am the only one to date who has backed up my claims by not only posting ONE, but several serves over a hundred.

What more would you like to be convinced?

Just show us your USTA NTRP rating if you are trying to prove your rating level.

First off I am not trying to prove my rating, but know for a fact my serve is a higher rating than yours, and a 4.0. Furthermore, as I already said, I rarely play anymore, do not play in USTA tournaments, therefore----- don't have a USTA NTRP rating.

Why so up in arms about me saying your serve is at least 3.5 level?

Because people like you have no business giving advice, and have no clue how to judge playing skills.


Most of my losses in the last two years are to guys who are or will be rated 4.5, in fact all my losses in both singles and doubles this summer were to guys who will be rated 4.5 in 2007.
http://national.usta.com/leagues/Reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB00E25424D0BC36B584FB2A09783F7E1C&CYear=2006

http://national.usta.com/leagues/Reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB00E25424D0BC36B584FB2A09783F7E1C&CYear=2005

I have no idea why you posted these links, but since you did I will respond as kindly as I can.

I have seen many of these USTA 4.0 tournaments. MANY of the players in the tournaments are 3.0 or 3.5, and are allowed to play because the tournament director doesn't have enough legit 4.0 players signed up to make a draw of more than 8 guys. So your singles and doubles USTA NTRP record at the 4.0 level does not impress me in the least bit.


Peace!

[ZPTennis]

Very true. I played a 4.5 tournament in Miami quite a few years ago and won it without much of a challenge. It was very odd, because not one of them was a true 4.5 player. It must have been a fluke because you would think Miami of all places would have a good turn out. But yeah, there are a lot of people who play up a division or even 2.

[drakulie]

ZP, do you remember where you played? As for the tournamants, most of the guys I know who are 4.5, 5.0 don't play USTA tournaments. They just play in local leagues, or with friends.

As a side note, sometimes you have the occasional sandbagger who is a 5.0 playing 4.0 tourneys.

[ZPTennis]

ZP, do you remember where you played? As for the tournamants, most of the guys I know who are 4.5, 5.0 don't play USTA tournaments. They just play in local leagues, or with friends.

As a side note, sometimes you have the occasional sandbagger who is a 5.0 playing 4.0 tourneys.


No i can't. However I do remember a big field nearby and it was somewhere near the beach. :D. It maybe only had about 8 clay courts? my memory is very vague. but it resembled a public facility. I stayed with a friend of mine who lives in Miami Beach.

[drakulie]

I think I know the park you are talking about. Years ago, there was another park nearby that had 2 grass courts, 2? clay courts + a bunch of hard courts.

[Andres]

Edited: Not worth it :D

[edberg505]

I recognize you from the videos. I've seen you at a few tournaments here and there and I don't think you suit the 5.0-5.5 status that you've given yourself. You're athletic, you have visually suitable strokes and you have a big serve, but you don't have the game to warrant either over-hyping yourself or short-selling others. I happen to follow junior tennis and I would be happy to talk with some folks if you give me some names. I recognize the lad in some of your videos from a few years back. For his sake, I won't use his name, but he played at Albuquerque High and I have seen him teaching at what I believe is "your club." And that link happens to be the early ratings from THIS YEAR in which you, who shall remain anonymous, were computer rated BACK DOWN to 4.0. I guess that suits your 1-9 record at 4.5. And for the record, that one win came with who I believe to be the best 4.5 in the city, maybe even a 5.0. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I am standing 100% behind the men that you slandered and betrayed on "your club's team" because I happen to know a good lot of them and they are more deserving of a 4.5 title than yourself. So if you're going to give the cold hard facts, make sure that you address both sides, so as to keep that credibility that you so crave via posting on this forum.

Okie dokie, you are right.

[a guy]

Thanks to the guy who posted the serve calculation thing. I'll give that a go.

[Hoss]

1. I don't want ANY assesment, and did not in any way shape or form post my serve to get one from this forum. If I felt I needed to work on my serve, I would hire a private coach, rather than get advice from here.

2. If I were to ask for an assessment on my serve on this forum, you would be one of the last people I wold consider taking advice from, and this is because you have already shown in this thread (and others) you do not know how to judge technique.

3. I can't post 10 straight serves because I won't be able to upload the file to Youtube. The file would be too large.

Furthermore, since you so desperately need convincing, here is what another TT forum user who I have played against, said about my serve in another thread:

Posted by NoSkillz, page 5- post # 63 & 66.
]"The video does the "sound" of the serve no justice. Because being on the receiving end of the serve you hear a "buzzing/whirling" sound as the ball makes contact with the service box and flyes towards you.

I played with some people at school the other day and it feels like their serves were floating through the air at a leasure pace towards me, compared to the bullet pace of your serve."

Last but not least, this forum has been around a much longer time than I have been a member. Yet of the thousands of times people on this forum including you have claimed --"I could serve 100+", I am the only one to date who has backed up my claims by not only posting ONE, but several serves over a hundred.

What more would you like to be convinced?



First off I am not trying to prove my rating, but know for a fact my serve is a higher rating than yours, and a 4.0. Furthermore, as I already said, I rarely play anymore, do not play in USTA tournaments, therefore----- don't have a USTA NTRP rating.



Because people like you have no business giving advice, and have no clue how to judge playing skills.




I have no idea why you posted these links, but since you did I will respond as kindly as I can.

I have seen many of these USTA 4.0 tournaments. MANY of the players in the tournaments are 3.0 or 3.5, and are allowed to play because the tournament director doesn't have enough legit 4.0 players signed up to make a draw of more than 8 guys. So your singles and doubles USTA NTRP record at the 4.0 level does not impress me in the least bit.


Peace!

Actually, I applaud Kevhen for posting his legitimate league record. And contrary to what you are saying Drakulie, the links you mentioned ARE NOT for tournaments, but league play. If you click on his opponents (I did for a couple of them), you will see they are 4.0 rated as well. So save the 3.0/3.5 tournament BS for someone else, or at least post his tournament links instead of his league links.

[kevhen]

The guys that play in the 4.0 tournaments around here are mostly the #1 and #2 singles guys from each club. These are the best of the 4.0s that each have a shot at winning the tournament. None of these guys have 3.5 or 3.0 ratings. If you have a 3.5 or 3.0 rating, you play in the 3.5 or 3.0 draws. Sometimes they make the 3.0s play with the 3.5s when not enough 3.0s sign up.

If you don't have an NTRP rating then I guess this is all moot.

[Hoss]

Again, kudos to you Kevhen, I think you are probably the only person who has posted league records on this board, and this given all of the NTRP threads where everyone rates themselves a 4.0+. It would be interesting to see more people do the same. Not likely though.

by the way, how did you link to your results, when I tried to do it, it just pulls up my name , NTRP, but does not show the match results.

Hoss.

[Jon Hampton]

Interesting serve. Without paying any attention to speed, your technique is good, up until your weight transfer. You are pronating, but it doesn't look like you're really transferring all of your power into your serve. Which, by the way, I'm surprised at...I mean, if you can hit 100+ mph without much weight transfer, you could probably get up into the 120's without much more effort.

Although I haven't looked at other comments past page 2, I have to say that a big serve does not mean an NTRP ranking. Sure, it could help, but no one can be 4.5/5.0 just with a big serve, so if your groundstrokes/volleys/movement are all on par with your serve, you'd be a good 5.0 IMO.

[kevhen]

http://national.usta.com/leagues/FormsLogin.asp

Here is a link that you can type your name in and see all past USTA league and tournament results.

[MasterTS]

http://national.usta.com/leagues/FormsLogin.asp

Here is a link that you can type your name in and see all past USTA league and tournament results.

I think that link only gives league play..

This one below will give USTA tournament results:

http://tennisinformation.com/tourny/findaplayer.asp

[kevhen]

The first link gives league play and also tournament results if they played in both leagues and tournaments. If a person didn't play in leagues then your link is very useful.

[Hoss]

Yes, I know how to see my results, it just linking the actual results page (since it opens in another window) that I was having problems with.

I'll try this.

http://national.usta.com/leagues/reports/SearchReports/rptIndividualRecord.asp?MemberID=DB00D4290F900CF26 DE0B0FA79586F6E6D2C7362D0&CYear=2007

[kevhen]

Cool, good results. How do you still have a 4.0 rating? You have won quite a bit at the 4.5 level.

[MasterTS]

Cool, good results. How do you still have a 4.0 rating? You have won quite a bit at the 4.5 level.

The computer rating system is jacked. You have to win 90% of your 4.5 matches to get a 4.5 rating.. basically only the first and 2nd seeds in 4.5 draws have a 4.5 rating.

Look at the guys that play 5.5s.. almost everyone is rated 5.0. Even college players that win open level tournaments and high seeds in 48 draw open tournaments are rated at 5.0 by the computer.

[Hoss]

Well, that 4.5 is for HTA (Houston Tennis Association) league play, in the fall and spring. Don't know why they show a different coding on the results, but if you look at the flights, we are in a 4.0 league. I believe its the Summer league results that really count towards your rating and I play USTA 4.0 in the summer. If I could get enough guys in my neighborhood to play 4.5, I would like to try that.

[Hoss]

TS, I have explained the ratings in my previous post. Where do you play? What are your results?

How are these jacked, they are what they are. One of the guys we beat in doubles this season is ranked in the top 20 doubles players for 4.0 in Texas (Richard Patton) 2005, posted Febraury of this year. I know....big wup, he probably had a bad day, at least I am showing my results, and that's all I claimed to do.

[MasterTS]

TS, I have explained the ratings in my previous post. Where do you play? What are your results?

How are these jacked, they are what they are. One of the guys we beat in doubles this season is ranked in the top 20 doubles players for 4.0 in Texas (Richard Patton) 2005, posted Febraury of this year. I know....big wup, he probably had a bad day, at least I am showing my results, and that's all I claimed to do.

I'm claiming that the computer ratings rate you lower then what you really are... I'm not claiming anything about your results or rating.

For example, I looked up some random name and look at this:

Tournament results for 4.5 look pretty impressive, usually a high seed #1-4:
http://slice.tennisinformation.com/tourny/record//id=3640559

Yet he is rated at 4.0 by the computer:
http://national.usta.com/leagues/reports/NTRP/SearchResults.asp?Search=Name&LastName=zezula&FirstName=jack&SearchType=W&submit2=+Go+

[kevhen]

It does seem hard to move up but even harder to move down! You have to win like over 90% of your matches to move up at your level. I think if you play up a level though you would probably only have to win about 40-50% to get bumped up.

Not sure how you come up with winning 90% at the higher level before getting bumped up, but it is hard to move up unless you dominate your level.

[Fatmike]

Bull sh!t. Anybody serving faster than 125, and getting 60 % of their first serves in---- is college, and pro level.

.

I serve over 110 all the time, my first serve is often over 75%. And I,m rated 3.5. My second serve can be brushed, sliced, with good power.

My biggest problem is that I have trouble putting away blocked returns.

Anyway, I only bring this to say that a big nice serve does not equal high ranking.

I often play better player then me, and most of the time my serve is better then them. But they have a lot better all around game then me. But I often scores free point with my serve again player with the same rating then me so I win most of the time. But then lose to the better players.

[Hoss]

TS, I'm pretty sure I'm probably a strong 4.0. I believe I have a 4.5 serve and forehand, (no, I'm not going to buy a radar gun and post a video on you tube:), but my inconsistency and volleys keep me firmly in the 4.0 realm for now. I could maybe appeal to be rated 4.5, but would rather do it with match results.


Sorry I got in your face, man.

Hoss.

[kevhen]

One of my strong 3.5 friends was clocked at 104mph with his serve. He has an aggressive power game. He only gets about 20% of his bombs in since his fairly short like 5'8. We both played baseball together and his fastball was clocked at 70mph like mine but my tennis serve was a little bigger at 110mph with his fastest at 104mph using a high quality radar. Plenty of 3.5s can hit 100mph but not with alot of consistency. They don't have kicks that go as high nor land as deep as Drakulie's though.

[Fatmike]

Plenty of 3.5s can hit 100mph but not with alot of consistency. They don't have kicks that go as high nor land as deep as Drakulie's though.

I do.

[drakulie]

And contrary to what you are saying Drakulie, the links you mentioned ARE NOT for tournaments, but league play.

So save the 3.0/3.5 tournament BS for someone else, or at least post his tournament links instead of his league links.

Like I said, if you know how to comprehend what you read, I was not sure why he posted those links and did not sit there and analyze them.

Either way, even leagues allow lesser ranked players to play at a higher level.

Oh, and by the way, here is a thread started by Maverick, so I won't save the "BS" for someone else:

"A 4.0 player can have a dynamic rating between 3.50 and 3.99. As soon as you hit 4.0, you are automatically bumped to 4.5. Between 4.0 and 4.05, you can appeal, and they would automatically grant your appeal. After 4.05 (4.06 or higher), you better have a convincing reason (usually medical) or evidence of error in the results or something of that nature.

Now, let's say you start a season as a medium 4.0 player with a rating of say 3.70 and you play a self-rated 4.0 player with an actual dynamic rating of 3.5 (lowest 4.0 rated player possible). If you end up winning the match with an average score of 6-4 (either 6-4, 6-4, or 7-6, 6-3)., the computer takes the difference between the average games won (6) and lost (4), which in this case is 2 and multiplies it by the dynamic rating of your opponent /100 and adds the result to your rating. This now becomes your new or “current” dynamic rating. In this example, 6-4 = 2, then 2 * 3.5 /100 = 0.07, then 3.7+0.07 = 3.77 is your new rating after beating a 3.5 player 6-4, 6-4. If you beat that same player 6-0, 6-0, your rating goes up by 6*3.5/100= 0.195 and your new rating will be 3.7+0.195 = 3.895. The reverse happens when you lose a match. i.e., your dynamic rating decreases by that much. As you are playing matches throughout the season, every match resulting in your dynamic rating staying above 4.0 generates a strike. 3 strikes and you are out. That is why it is important that (if you can control it) not to win 6-0, 6-0, because it really could hurt your rating or get you DQ'ed.

So, what I am saying is that your “dynamic” rating could be already at 3.95, due to your previous wins in last season, and you get disqualified by a couple of more close wins, but someone with a lower dynamic rating, say a self-rated 3.5 player, who has more wins and more convincing wins than you, does not get disqualified because it takes time for his rating to reach the threshold where strikes are generated against him."

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=123126

[Hoss]

You didn't have to analyze them, just open them up. Whatever. You know I hardly ever post on these boards, but had to say something when the man had the guts to post actual results and you belittled them by saying he beat a bunch of 3.0's to 3.5's (i'm paraphrasing).

[drakulie]

You didn't have to analyze them, just open them up. Whatever. You know I hardly ever post on these boards, but had to say something when the man had the guts to post actual results and you belittled them by saying he beat a bunch of 3.0's to 3.5's (i'm paraphrasing).

Now you are either purposely misquoting me, or not that intelligent.

What I said was those tournaments are filled with 3.0-3.5 players. And, as I already showed you on my previous post, so are leagues.

PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I SAY "YOU BEAT A BUNCH OF 3.0-3.5 PLAYERS?"

[Phil]

Kehven, when you see a 3.5 or 4.0 player that has tehcnique like this, then we could talk.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/drakulie/100_0073.jpg

This is almost text book.
1. Tossing arm straight.
2. Knee bend.
3. Hips in the court.
4. Trophy pose.
5. Racquet back
6. Complete racquet drop.
7. Racquet coming at ball on it's side.
8. Pronation.
9. etc.

By the way, that serve was a few inches long, not 2 feet. It just looks that way because of the speed and camera angle.

I am a 4.5 player, and could be 5.0+ if I went out on the court and hit more than the 4-5 times a month I play now. I just don't have the time anymore.

You are absolutely dreaming if you think you have seen 3.5 or 4.0 players with technique as solid as mine. Hell, there are 4.5-5.0 players that don't have as good technique. I have been playing since I was 9, and played competitively until 19 (including a college that won the National Championship the year before I got there). I just took it up again 2 years ago after a 14 year layoff.

PS: On all these videos I am serving with a bruise on the arch of my left foot, which prohibits me from launching into the court. The only reason I originally posted my service video was because people were skeptical I could not hit 100. So I did it any ways without the aid of my left foot.

Hell, I think you could be a 7.0 if you played a few hours a day...show some more vids of your textbook strokes, please, so we can ooh and aah at your flawless technique and cool radar gun display.

You wrote The Book, dude. Hall of Fame is the next stop for such a talent as yourself. Wooo wooo! So, show us some more vids.

[drakulie]

Interesting serve. Without paying any attention to speed, your technique is good, up until your weight transfer. You are pronating, but it doesn't look like you're really transferring all of your power into your serve. Which, by the way, I'm surprised at...I mean, if you can hit 100+ mph without much weight transfer, you could probably get up into the 120's without much more effort.

I am not transferring my weight because I have a bad bruise on the arch of my left foot, so I can't push off. Even so, I highly doubt I could hit 120.

Although I haven't looked at other comments past page 2, I have to say that a big serve does not mean an NTRP ranking. Sure, it could help, but no one can be 4.5/5.0 just with a big serve, so if your groundstrokes/volleys/movement are all on par with your serve, you'd be a good 5.0 IMO.

They are on par, but I don't play enough to be able to hit consistently with a 5.0 right now.

[Hoss]

Now you are either purposely misquoting me, or not that intelligent.

What I said was those tournaments are filled with 3.0-3.5 players. And, as I already showed you on my previous post, so are leagues.

PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I SAY "YOU BEAT A BUNCH OF 3.0-3.5 PLAYERS?"


What do you think the connotation is of saying those tournaments are filled with 3.0-3.5 players, smart guy. Did you mean to flatter Kevhen by saying that. Couldn't your logic be extrapolated to my quote, which I stated was paraphrasing. Lets face it, I just expressed honestly what you were really saying with your comment. I think it speaks for it self.

Gotta go, my keepers just sent me another banana pellet.

Mongo out.

[drakulie]

Hell, I think you could be a 7.0 if you played a few hours a day...show some more vids of your textbook strokes, please, so we can ooh and aah at your flawless technique and cool radar gun display.

You wrote The Book, dude. Hall of Fame is the next stop for such a talent as yourself. Wooo wooo! So, show us some more vids.

I'm sure you could be a 7.0 too. Only problem is you keep forgetting to remove the balls from your side of the court and keep tearing up your ankle.

[kevhen]

Occasionally a 3.5 will enter a 4.0 draw but it's rare and they are always out in the first round. I know of no 3.0s ever entering a 4.0 draw around here.

I know the difference between a 3.5 and a 4.0. I played in the finals of a 3.5 Sectional Meet involving 5 different states to go to Nationals 3 years ago. I only lost one 3.5 match that year and that was in the finals of Sectionals. The team that beat us had the 5th best record at Nationals of out 17 teams only losing to Atlanta's top 3.5 team which finished 3rd overall.

The 4.0s guys I play in tournaments around here aren't 3.5. They are 4.0 and could beat any 3.5 in this 5 state section. Our Section does just fine at Nationals.

The USTA NTRP isn't perfect but it's better than nothing and is usually fairly accurate when playing others from around the country. I have played 3.5s from other states like Georgia and Florida and have beaten then while losing to 4.5 from other states by typical scores that I would lose to 4.5s from around here. I have played 4.0s from other states and have had very close as expected results. NTRP is what it is and is the best and about only benchmark that we have for when playing against new players from other regions.

[Phil]

I'm sure you could be a 7.0 too. Only problem is you keep forgetting to remove the balls from your side of the court and keep tearing up your ankle.

Just make sure your foot heals properly, so you can "launch" into the court and right off to the moon...I mean, if your serve is a whopping 105 kph NOW...just think what it would be once you're airborne again!

[drakulie]

Just make sure your foot heals properly, so you can "launch" into the court and right off to the moon...I mean, if your serve is a whopping 105 kph NOW...just think what it would be once you're airborne again!

I will. Thanks.

How is the ankle? By the way, I never asked how is the ball after you crushed it with your fat ass?

[MasterTS]

LoL you guys try too hard... nice fat a$s comment though.. phil is quite large I've heard.

[Wimbledon2004]

kool serve

but one of my high school teammate can serve 115 mph... and we are only 17... so no point trying to prove anything here.....

[drakulie]

LoL you guys try too hard... nice fat a$s comment though.. phil is quite large I've heard.

Doesn't surprise me. All Phil ever talks about is how much he reads and every once in a while tells us his story of how he stepped on a ball once, cause he was too tired/lazy to move it, and eventually stepped on it tearing his ankle to shreds. He probably couldn't see it on the ground because his big gut got in the way.

Poor ball :(

[shindemac]

Someone asked for an analysis of your serve even though you already did one. So here are my thoughts:

Compared to ZPTennis, your power sources are a bit different. One obvious thing, is the difference in knee bend. Also, Drak has a good shoulder drop meaning the right shoulder is lower than the left. I don't see as much shoulder stretch in Drak's serve. The rotation and uncoiling could use a little work. The shoulder rotation isn't as complete, but it's still there for sure. At contact, he leans to the left a little. His contact point could be a little higher too. He needs to get a straight line from his racket tip, down his arm, to his leg so that he can get maximal transfer of energy. I'm not sure if this makes too much of a difference, but I noticed his elbow doesn't point to the sky during his backscratch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/drakulie/100_0073.jpg

This is almost text book.
1. Tossing arm straight.
2. Knee bend.
3. Hips in the court.
4. Trophy pose.
5. Racquet back
6. Complete racquet drop.
7. Racquet coming at ball on it's side.
8. Pronation.
9. etc.

By the way, that serve was a few inches long, not 2 feet. It just looks that way because of the speed and camera angle.

I am a 4.5 player, and could be 5.0+ if I went out on the court and hit more than the 4-5 times a month I play now. I just don't have the time anymore.

You are absolutely dreaming if you think you have seen 3.5 or 4.0 players with technique as solid as mine. Hell, there are 4.5-5.0 players that don't have as good technique. I have been playing since I was 9, and played competitively until 19 (including a college that won the National Championship the year before I got there). I just took it up again 2 years ago after a 14 year layoff.

PS: On all these videos I am serving with a bruise on the arch of my left foot, which prohibits me from launching into the court. The only reason I originally posted my service video was because people were skeptical I could not hit 100. So I did it any ways without the aid of my left foot.[/QUOTE]

[chapufo1]

how old are you people, 8? 10? stop talking trash to each other over the internet over stupid things. I thought adults were supposed to be a bit more mature than that...

[drakulie]

how old are you people, 8? 10? stop talking trash to each other over the internet over stupid things. I thought adults were supposed to be a bit more mature than that...


OK. You are correct. By the way, you did a little bit of trash talking in this thread too, and stuck your foot in your mouth before I stomped on you.

[chapufo1]

OK. You are correct. By the way, you did a little bit of trash talking in this thread too, and stuck your foot in your mouth before I stomped on you.

....wtf are u talking about, are u really that retarded? I didn't do any trash talking, all I said was that you should try to be a bit more mature by not saying how bad other people are if you don't like being talked that way. Read a little bit more carefully please. I don't like to argue with people over the internet who I don't even know in person so just drop it buddy.

[drakulie]

all I said was that you should try to be a bit more mature by not saying how bad other people are if you don't like being talked that way. Read a little bit more carefully please.

Here, I will help freshen your memory, since you obviously have a short term memory, and have trouble with your "working memory". By the way, go look up "working memory" since you probably have no clue what that means.

This is what you said:

No need to hate bro, u don't need to go around saying to the other person that they probably suck. If you don't like hearing that you're a 3.5-4.0 player (from the looks of it your better...) how would they feel if they were called 2.0 players without even evaluating their vids? Chill out.

As you could see, you stuck your foot in your mouth when you wrote this. As I already explained, I Had seen his service video, and HAD YOU DONE A LITTLE BIT OF READING YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT.

STOMPED! OH, AND NO NEED TO HATE BRO! (COUGH)

[chapufo1]

Here, I will help freshen your memory, since you obviously have a short term memory, and have trouble with your "working memory". By the way, go look up "working memory" since you probably have no clue what that means.

This is what you said:



As you could see, you stuck your foot in your mouth when you wrote this. As I already explained, I Had seen his service video, and HAD YOU DONE A LITTLE BIT OF READING YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT.

STOMPED! OH, AND NO NEED TO HATE BRO! (COUGH)

Jesus Christ, are you mentally retarded? How old are you really? You call yourself an adult? If I saw you personally, I would really have to lay a whooping on you so you can understand how childish you are. If that's talking trash to you, I don't know how offensively you would take actual criticism. I'm just dumbfounded by how immature idiots like you can be. Just stop talking.

[Soundbyte]

Drak,
Nice serve. I know there's a lot of fire in this thread and I dont want to spread anymore.
My only comment on your serve would be to follow through across your body. This won't impact the serve at all, it will just keep your body more fluid and ready to jump into the point quickly. (and, to most of the people on this board, they will think the serve looks more "professional")
Even though you don't really do that, this is a perfect example of the famous "wrist snap." Drak gets all his speed from his loose wrist. Learn from it.

Good day.

[drakulie]

Here, you tell everyone to stop "trash talking":

how old are you people, 8? 10? stop talking trash to each other over the internet over stupid things.

Here you don't follow your own advice, and do some "trash talking".

Jesus Christ, are you mentally retarded? If I saw you personally, I would really have to lay a whooping on you so you can understand how childish you are.

You really are not very mentally strong are you?


I'm just dumbfounded

Yes, you are "dumb"!

[chapufo1]

Here, you tell everyone to stop "trash talking":



Here you don't follow your own advice, and do some "trash talking".



You really are not very mentally strong are you?




Yes, you are "dumb"!

Okay. I'm done talking with you. You're not even worth my time. I feel bad for your family if you do have any.

[drakulie]

OK , bye- bye.

[Polaris]

Nice serve drakulie. I like everything about it, except perhaps the end of the followthrough, which seems kind of short. Nice knee-bend and the take-back reminds one of the great Pete. I have to agree with MasterTS regarding the rating of the serve (Man, Did the sun rise in the west today?!). Pretty certainly 4.5 to 5.0.

If that is 3.5-4.0, then my serve is 1.5, and I ought to hang up my racquet and go to the Himalayas.

[dave333]

I see some really funny ntrps for this serve...3.5, 3.0. wow, whatever you are smokin, it must be some hard-core stuff.

[_mats_]

wow I just joined the board, been reading lots of posts, good and bad.

Nice serve, but oh boy, nasty exchanges, big egos.. phew.. too much testosterone flying around.. relax people, enjoy the game!

[lordmanji]

drakulie has a 3.5 serve but a 1.0 mind.

drakulie, youre as concerned with serve speed as you probably are with penis size.
can you place it at will? with different spins? can you try to have a complete follow through? if not you're at most 4.0, likely 3.5

drakulie, you have the maturity and reading comprehension of a 6 year old. you attacked chapuof in a mad rage when anyone else who's sane reading what he said would not come to your same conclusion. you post your serve here, people give their honest opinions and you don't have enough self-confidence to be open-minded. that's why you're a intelligent 1.0

drakulie, how about showing something else other than your "awesome" serve and in match conditions? anyone here can warm up serves an entire hour then just post the best looking ones.

[drakulie]

I can't believe this thread came back from the dead. 4 months ago was the last post.

Anyway, manji I suppose you think that Pancho Gonzalez also has a 3.5 serve. He didn't have a complete follow-thru and his raquet would often scrape the ground directly in front of him. Follow-thru is not what is important-- it is the results that count.

In addition, although I agree that "anyone could warm-up for an hour, and then just post the best ones", NOBODY--INCLUDING YOU HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO IT.

I have played people on these boards, and their posts about my serve speak about the effectiveness of not only my serve, but my game.