K90 cannot be Fed's racquet?

Fed's SW is ....

  • Total voters
    85
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
No new K90 threads so things are starting to get boring. Here is one:

Travelerajm says Federer's racquet swingweight is 370.

Breakpoint claims K90 is as close to Fed's racquet as you can get.

K90 and N90 have practically the same specs. The SW of N90 is 326.

So, there is a HUGE difference in SW, practically two different racquets.

Thus, K90 is nowhere close to what Fed uses and all who think so are being fooled by marketing, or Fed's SW is nowhere close to 370.
 
federermcenroeagassi

federermcenroeagassi

Rookie
we dont know fed's sw for sure do we, unless jura or thomas martinez (?) can tell us.. not that i have anything against travlerajm, he's a great contributor to these forums, but i dont think he has every touched federer's racket, or has he?
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I have asked him about the source of the numbers in another thread. He had;

Fed and Nadal: 370 (not combined hehehe)
Moya: 470
Ju: 407

The last one he said was calculated by him. He will clarify on the others.

But point is, if Fed's SW is 370, it is a whole different beast from the K90/N90, and players who are getting it because it is Fed's racquet are completely off the mark. Not some minor mods off the mark, but totally.

Else the number 370 has to be challenged.

Either way something to think about
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
jamumafa said:
Moyas SW is 470? Fudgeinghell, is that cos it's like 7pts HH?
Click to expand...

Yes traveler has analysed that he is one of the extreme HH guys.

I don't think people have paid attention to such conclusions. They have been mostly like "I put lead here and got great power" or "I did that but I get zero spin" etc. But buried in his posts are actual numbers for pros that people need to see. Some of us have no means to verify them, but others like jura have worked with these racquets or have a better idea in general than most of us.

Lot is at stake here. Either the pros are using SW2 or they are not. Either the PDR/APD/K90 are close to what Roddick/Nadal/Federer use (with minor mods) or not.
 
jackson vile

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
federermcenroeagassi said:
we dont know fed's sw for sure do we, unless jura or thomas martinez (?) can tell us.. not that i have anything against travlerajm, he's a great contributor to these forums, but i dont think he has every touched federer's racket, or has he?
Click to expand...

Jura post Roger's specs and yes indeed his SW is around 365
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Lakoste said:
travlerajm actually got his hands on one of Federer's racquets? Got a link to the thread? If it's his "expert" opinion don't even bother...

I'll take Greg Raven's findings as they're the closest we have to prove
http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/federer_playtest.html
Click to expand...

So it is Greg Raven. I have been mistakenly telling people that it is jura's web site.

But wasn't there a question once whether the racquet tested by Greg was really the Federer one?
 
jackson vile

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
Once you have experienced SW2 you would know instantly the truth.

Anyone that thinks the top pros aren't 350+ are complete novices.

I have done all my testing and come to my full conculsion 6 different setups on the same racket tnt-90

Plue 3 on 200gxl and 2 on LMIXL


I say let the losers have their SW1;)
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
sureshs said:
So it is Greg Raven. I have been mistakenly telling people that it is jura's web site.

But wasn't there a question once whether the racquet tested by Greg was really the Federer one?
Click to expand...

Ahh here is where the racquet came from:

---------------
I should point out that Wilson has provided USRSA with other players' frames over the years, and in each case I can remember, it provided what appeared to be the actual frame, not the retail version of that frame, even when the player's frame was way different than the retail frame it appeared to be. I find it difficult to believe that in this one case, Wilson would supply USRSA with some mutant version of a player's frame.

USRSA received this racquet directly from Wilson for use at the U.S. Open Kids' Day program.
-------------------------
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Jura's specs

Federer is missing, but Nadal and Moya are there. Note that there are no SWs here. They must have been calculated. The whole thing then hinges on that calculation, no empirical evidence?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a list of a lot of pro's racket specs, taken at the French Open stringing service:
(It's a bit confusing to read, but I had a lot of work with it, now you have to concentrate, too )

Player grip size weight(unstrung) balance(unstrung) Lengthcm String brand String type diameter Tension
Gaudio, Gaston (ARG ) 4 363 30.8 68.7 KIRSCHBAUM SUPER SMASH 1.30 27/27
Nadal, Rafael (ESP ) 2 321 32.2 68.5
BABOLAT TOUR DURALAST 1.35 25/24
Agassi, Andre (USA ) 343 32 68.5
LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 27/27
Moya, Carlos (ESP ) 3 307 36.6 68.5
LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 28/28
Canas, Guillermo (ARG ) 3 355 30.9 70.8 KIRSCHBAUM SUPER SMASH 1.30 24/24
Robredo, Tommy (ESP ) 3 339 32 69.8 25/24
Davydenko, Nikolay (RUS ) 3 317 32.1 69.7
POLYSTAR ENERGY 24/23
Stepanek, Radek (CZE ) 3 348 30.1 68.6
PACIFIC PRIME GUT 16 28/26
Johansson, Thomas (SWE ) 3 333 30.9 68.4 LUX / BAB ALU POWER/VS TEAM 1.25/1.30 27/27
Ancic, Mario (CRO ) 2 350 30.3 68.5 BAB / LUX VS/ALU POWER 1.30/1.25 26/25
Gonzalez, Fernando (CHI ) 3 346 30.2 70.3 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 27/27
Massu, Nicolas (CHI ) 3 345 31.1 69.9 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 23.5/23.5
Ferrer, David (ESP ) 2 332 32.1 70.7 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 22/22
Grosjean, Sebastien (FRA ) 3 348 31.5 70.5 BAB / LUX VS / ALU POWER 1.30/1.25 22/21
Kiefer, Nicolas (GER ) 3 343 32.6 69.1 BABOLAT VS TEAM / Ballistic PM 1.27/1.25 28/27
Volandri, Filippo (ITA ) 3 343 30.8 68.4 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 20/20
Spadea, Vincent (USA ) 3 349 30 68.3 PRINCE / LUX Natural gut/BB alu power 1.35/1.25 34/34
Rochus, Olivier (BEL ) 3 325 31.1 69.9 LUXILON BIG BANG ALU POWER 1.25 23/22
Srichaphan, Paradorn (THA ) 4 336 30.2 68.5 LUX / BAB Alu power / VS TOUCH 1.25/1.30 24.5/23.5
Melzer, Jurgen (AUT ) 4 316 31 70.8 Muster/ISP TVP 1-39/professionnal 1.30/1.20 30/30
Malisse, Xavier (BEL ) 3 315 31.4 71.5 BABOLAT FIBERTOUR 1.30 29/29
Andreev, Igor (RUS ) 3 323 32.3 69.9 BABOLAT 25/24
Soderling, Robin (SWE ) 4 364 31.3 68.9 LUXILON BB ALU POWER ROUGH 1.25 27/27
Mirnyi, Max (BLR ) 4 352 30.4 68.3 WIL / LUX Natural 16/alu power 1.30/1.25 21/21
Beck, Karol (SVK ) 3 336 30.8 68.2 BABOLAT VS TOUCH 1.30 28/27
Rusedski, Greg (GBR ) 4 350 30.8 68.5 BABOLAT VS 1.30 24.5/24.5
Saulnier, Cyril (FRA ) 3 340 31.2 70.2 HEAD NAURAL GUT 26/25
Llodra, Michael (FRA ) 2 326 31 6.7 LUX / WIL Alu Power/Natural Gut 1.25/1.30 21/23
Horna, Luis (PER ) 3 339 30.7 68.6 LUXILON BB ALU POWER ROUGH 1.25 25/25
Carlsen, Kenneth (DEN ) 3 342 31 68.8 BABOLAT VS TEAM 1.30 32/31
Martin, Alberto (ESP ) 3 316 31.8 69.9 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 23.5/21.5
Schuettler, Rainer (GER ) 3 339 30.9 BDE POLYSTAR 1.30? 26/25
Karlovic, Ivo (CRO )
5 350 31 68.4 LUX / BAB ALU POWER/VS TEAM 1.25/1.30 25/25
Acasuso, Jose (ARG ) 4 332 31.1 68.4 HEAD FXP 17 25/26
Ginepri, Robby (USA ) 3 342 31.6 69.8 BABOLAT Ballistic PM / VS TEAM 1.30/1.30 28/28
Ventura, Santiago (ESP ) 3 318 33 69.5 LUXILON BIG BANGER ORIGINAL 1.30 27/27
Monaco, Juan (ARG ) 3 346 31.2 68.5 YONEX TG TOUGH ERID 1.30 25/25
Mathieu, Paul-Henri (FRA ) 4 332 32 68.4 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 28/27
Koubek, Stefan (AUT ) 3 330 32.8 69.5 ?SYNT ? 23/23
Wessels, Peter (NED ) 4 339 30.5 68.5 BABOLAT VS TEAM 1.30 26/26
Mantilla, Felix (ESP ) 3 318 33.7 69.9 LUXILON BIG BANGER ORIGINAL 1.30 23/21
Garcia-Lopez Guillermo 4 332 31.5 68.8 HEAD ULTRA TOUR 16L 1.27 24/23
Sanguinetti, Davide (ITA ) 3 327 32.2 71.1 KIRSHBAUM COMPETITION 1.30 20/20
Sargsian, Sargis (ARM ) 4 352 31.1 69.7 LUX / WIL Alu power/natural GUT 1.25/1.30 25/25
Schalken, Sjeng (NED ) 5 360 28.5 68.7 BABOLAT VS TOUCH 1.30 27/27
Kuerten, Gustavo (BRA ) 3 347 32.2 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 21/23
Haehnel, Jerome (FRA ) 4 338 31.1 68.1 TECNIFIBRE SPINFIRE MAXI POWER 1.25 24/23
Arthurs, Wayne (AUS ) 3 308 32 69.9 BAB / LUX VS TEAM/BB TIMO 1.27/1.10 25/25
Tipsarevic, Janko (SCG ) 4 326 31 68.4 TECNIFIBRE X3 TDI 1.33 24/23
Burgsmuller, Lars (GER ) 3 346 30.6 70 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 25/24
Wawrinka, Stanislas (SUI ) 3 348 31.3 68.4 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 31/29
Benneteau, Julien (FRA ) 3 338 32.6 69.8 BABOLAT Ballistic PM / VS team 1.25/1.30 28/27
Sluiter, Raemon (NED ) 3 335 32 69.9 PACIFIC POWER 1.35? 24/24
Vliegen, Kristof (BEL ) 3 335 31.5 69.8 TECNIFIBRE Spinfire MP/ X-one biphase 1.25/1.24 25/24
Bjorkman, Jonas (SWE ) 4 349 30.6 70 LUX / BAB ALU POWER/VS TEAM 1.25/1.30 23/23
Behrend, Tomas (GER ) 3 338 29.7 68.4 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 23/22
Saretta, Flavio (BRA ) 3 329 31.9 70 BABOLAT Ballistic PM / VS TEAM 1.30 29/29
Sanchez, David (ESP ) 3 340 31.5 68.6 LUXILON ORIGINAL 24/23
Mahut, Nicolas (FRA ) 4 339 31 68.5 WILSON/TF Natural16/Spinfire Maxi Power 1.30/1.25 23/23
Nieminen, Jarkko (FIN ) 3 350 30.4 70.7 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 25/25
Luczak, Peter (AUS ) 4 355 30.6 70.1 BABOLAT POLYMONO/VS 1.30/1.30 20/20
Serra, Florent (FRA ) 3 336 31.5 70.1 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 27/26
Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried (FRA ) 5 347 30 69.5 LUX / TF ALU POWER / X-ONE 1.25/1.24 24/24
Djokovic, Novak (SCG ) 3 324 31.1 68.2 TECNIFIBRE X ONE 1.24 25/24
Tursunov, Dmitry (RUS ) 4 343 30.5 68.3 LUXILON MonotecSupersense 1.12
Patience, Olivier (FRA ) 3 324 33.3 68.3 LUXILON BIG BANGER ORIGINAL 1.30 26/26
Blake, James (USA) 4 364 30.2 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 31/31
BHUPATHI MAHESH 4 348 31 68.9 WILSON NATURAL 1.30 27/27
ROGER-VASSELIN Edouard 3 322 31.9 69.7 BABOLAT Pro hurricane/ VS PLUS 1.25/1.25 29/29
BLACK WAYNE 3 336 30 68.4 BABOLAT Tour duralast/ XCEL Premium 1.25/1.30 29/29
BRIAN MIKE 4 354 29.7 69.8 TECNIFIBRE NRG 2 1.24 23/24
BRIAN BOB 5 354 29.8 69.8 LUX / TF ALU POWER / NRG 2 1.25/1.24 24/25
DI PASQUALE ARNAUD 4 329 30.6 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 25/24
SQUILLARI FRANCO 4 337 31 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 25/25
DEVILDER NICOLAS 3 340 30.5 68.4 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 23/23
KNOWLE JULIAN 3 337 32.7 68.8 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 17/17
WOODBRIDGE TODD 3 353 30.7 69.8 WILSON NATURAL 1.25 24/24
NESTOR DAVID 5 375 29.5 69.3 BAB / LUX VS Team thermogut/alu powerBB 1.25 26/26
ZIMONJIC NENAD 4 338 30.1 69.6 BAB / LUX vs team/BBaluPowerOD2 12 1.27/?
ULLYETT KEVIN 4 357 29.5 69.5 WILSON NATURAL 1.30 21/21
Clément, Arnaud (FRA) 4 312 31.3 69.9 BABOLAT VS TEAM 1.30 24/24
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Conclusions so far:

1. Greg Raven's "Federer racquet" (quotes intentional) show the SW to be around 326 actually measured.

2. Jura's specs on which claims of 370 SW for Nadal were based actually do not provide measured SW. It was calculated based on some assumptions which may or may not be correct.
 
M

MTXR

Professional
Ok, so now greg has feds frame. But you gotta think that its a frame that has not yet had lead and such added to it right?

Probably just off the special fed production line without further manual tweaking by the pro room.

Thats my guess
 
T

tennisguy11

Semi-Pro
No one is saying that the k90 is weighted the same as Feds' they are saying that they hope it is the same racquet he is using. Obviously he modifies the racquet as stated on his own website wih lead.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
MTXR said:
Ok, so now greg has feds frame. But you gotta think that its a frame that has not yet had lead and such added to it right?

Probably just off the special fed production line without further manual tweaking by the pro room.

Thats my guess
Click to expand...

In that case, you have Nadal, Moya and Ju's numbers which are for the actual ones.

Also, who has access to the modded Fed racquet, if it exists, and how could a SW be calculated for it without knowing what the "manual tweaking by the pro room" is?
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
tennisguy11 said:
No one is saying that the k90 is weighted the same as Feds' they are saying that they hope it is the same racquet he is using. Obviously he modifies the racquet as stated on his own website wih lead.
Click to expand...

Did he also reveal the final SW? Without knowing what he does, how can a number be generated?
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
sureshs said:
No new K90 threads so things are starting to get boring. Here is one:

Travelerajm says Federer's racquet swingweight is 370.

Breakpoint claims K90 is as close to Fed's racquet as you can get.

K90 and N90 have practically the same specs. The SW of N90 is 326.

So, there is a HUGE difference in SW, practically two different racquets.

Thus, K90 is nowhere close to what Fed uses and all who think so are being fooled by marketing, or Fed's SW is nowhere close to 370.
Click to expand...

Even if Federer's racquet really has a SW of 370 (which I highly doubt), it could still be the K90 but with a lot of lead tape added on it, right?

The K90 is just the base racquet. Who knows how Federer has it customized? :confused:

Just like Sampras' base racquet was the St. Vincent PS 6.0 85, but the way he had it customized made it a very different racquet from the St. Vincent PS 6.0 85 that you could buy off-the-racks at your pro shop. And I would say most recreational players preferred the base PS 6.0 85 over the exact customized racquet that Sampras used, just like I suspect most people will prefer the base K90 over the exact customized racquet that Federer uses.

And, again, I think anyone that buys a racquet ONLY because he thinks some pro uses it deserves exactly what they get, whatever that may be. ;)
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
BreakPoint said:
Even if Federer's racquet really has a SW of 370 (which I highly doubt), it could still be the K90 but with a lot of lead tape added on it, right?

The K90 is just the base racquet. Who knows how Federer has it customized? :confused:

Just like Sampras' base racquet was the St. Vincent PS 6.0 85, but the way he had it customized made it a very different racquet from the St. Vincent PS 6.0 85 that you could buy off-the-racks at your pro shop. And I would say most recreational players preferred the base PS 6.0 85 over the exact customized racquet that Sampras used, just like I suspect most people will prefer the base K90 over the exact customized racquet that Federer uses.

And, again, I think anyone that buys a racquet ONLY because he thinks some pro uses it deserves exactly what they get, whatever that may be. ;)
Click to expand...

But isn't it a huge difference?
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
sureshs said:
But isn't it a huge difference?
Click to expand...
Yes, 370 and 326 is a huge difference, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? We don't know what Federer's true swingweight is and even if we did, so what? What does the amount of SW that he likes have anything at all with the SW that I like? :confused:
 
Last edited:
A

AndrewD

Legend
sureshs,

For all we know he could be using a Wilson with an RDA of 58 (companies have been tailoring the flex of racquets for the top players since the days of Lew Hoad) so, even if had a racquet which matched his for template, weight, swingweight, materials and balance you might still be light years away from what he really uses. That really is as it should be (the K-90 will be mass marketed, Feds racquet is individually tailored).

Hoad had the people at Dunlop add stiffness to the throat of his Maxply (a move Laver copied) so, the end result was that he wasn't really using a Maxply, as we would know it. Looked the same as off the shelf and might have weighed the same but due to the change in flex (and the area that change was applied) it was a completely unique racquet.

The most you can hope for, if it's important, is to use the racquet that Federer endorses but that's about it.
 
Sagittar

Sagittar

Hall of Fame
sureshs said:
Federer is missing, but Nadal and Moya are there. Note that there are no SWs here. They must have been calculated. The whole thing then hinges on that calculation, no empirical evidence?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a list of a lot of pro's racket specs, taken at the French Open stringing service:
(It's a bit confusing to read, but I had a lot of work with it, now you have to concentrate, too )

Player grip size weight(unstrung) balance(unstrung) Lengthcm String brand String type diameter Tension
Gaudio, Gaston (ARG ) 4 363 30.8 68.7 KIRSCHBAUM SUPER SMASH 1.30 27/27
Nadal, Rafael (ESP ) 2 321 32.2 68.5
BABOLAT TOUR DURALAST 1.35 25/24
Agassi, Andre (USA ) 343 32 68.5
LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 27/27
Moya, Carlos (ESP ) 3 307 36.6 68.5
LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 28/28
Canas, Guillermo (ARG ) 3 355 30.9 70.8 KIRSCHBAUM SUPER SMASH 1.30 24/24
Robredo, Tommy (ESP ) 3 339 32 69.8 25/24
Davydenko, Nikolay (RUS ) 3 317 32.1 69.7
POLYSTAR ENERGY 24/23
Stepanek, Radek (CZE ) 3 348 30.1 68.6
PACIFIC PRIME GUT 16 28/26
Johansson, Thomas (SWE ) 3 333 30.9 68.4 LUX / BAB ALU POWER/VS TEAM 1.25/1.30 27/27
Ancic, Mario (CRO ) 2 350 30.3 68.5 BAB / LUX VS/ALU POWER 1.30/1.25 26/25
Gonzalez, Fernando (CHI ) 3 346 30.2 70.3 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 27/27
Massu, Nicolas (CHI ) 3 345 31.1 69.9 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 23.5/23.5
Ferrer, David (ESP ) 2 332 32.1 70.7 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 22/22
Grosjean, Sebastien (FRA ) 3 348 31.5 70.5 BAB / LUX VS / ALU POWER 1.30/1.25 22/21
Kiefer, Nicolas (GER ) 3 343 32.6 69.1 BABOLAT VS TEAM / Ballistic PM 1.27/1.25 28/27
Volandri, Filippo (ITA ) 3 343 30.8 68.4 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 20/20
Spadea, Vincent (USA ) 3 349 30 68.3 PRINCE / LUX Natural gut/BB alu power 1.35/1.25 34/34
Rochus, Olivier (BEL ) 3 325 31.1 69.9 LUXILON BIG BANG ALU POWER 1.25 23/22
Srichaphan, Paradorn (THA ) 4 336 30.2 68.5 LUX / BAB Alu power / VS TOUCH 1.25/1.30 24.5/23.5
Melzer, Jurgen (AUT ) 4 316 31 70.8 Muster/ISP TVP 1-39/professionnal 1.30/1.20 30/30
Malisse, Xavier (BEL ) 3 315 31.4 71.5 BABOLAT FIBERTOUR 1.30 29/29
Andreev, Igor (RUS ) 3 323 32.3 69.9 BABOLAT 25/24
Soderling, Robin (SWE ) 4 364 31.3 68.9 LUXILON BB ALU POWER ROUGH 1.25 27/27
Mirnyi, Max (BLR ) 4 352 30.4 68.3 WIL / LUX Natural 16/alu power 1.30/1.25 21/21
Beck, Karol (SVK ) 3 336 30.8 68.2 BABOLAT VS TOUCH 1.30 28/27
Rusedski, Greg (GBR ) 4 350 30.8 68.5 BABOLAT VS 1.30 24.5/24.5
Saulnier, Cyril (FRA ) 3 340 31.2 70.2 HEAD NAURAL GUT 26/25
Llodra, Michael (FRA ) 2 326 31 6.7 LUX / WIL Alu Power/Natural Gut 1.25/1.30 21/23
Horna, Luis (PER ) 3 339 30.7 68.6 LUXILON BB ALU POWER ROUGH 1.25 25/25
Carlsen, Kenneth (DEN ) 3 342 31 68.8 BABOLAT VS TEAM 1.30 32/31
Martin, Alberto (ESP ) 3 316 31.8 69.9 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 23.5/21.5
Schuettler, Rainer (GER ) 3 339 30.9 BDE POLYSTAR 1.30? 26/25
Karlovic, Ivo (CRO )
5 350 31 68.4 LUX / BAB ALU POWER/VS TEAM 1.25/1.30 25/25
Acasuso, Jose (ARG ) 4 332 31.1 68.4 HEAD FXP 17 25/26
Ginepri, Robby (USA ) 3 342 31.6 69.8 BABOLAT Ballistic PM / VS TEAM 1.30/1.30 28/28
Ventura, Santiago (ESP ) 3 318 33 69.5 LUXILON BIG BANGER ORIGINAL 1.30 27/27
Monaco, Juan (ARG ) 3 346 31.2 68.5 YONEX TG TOUGH ERID 1.30 25/25
Mathieu, Paul-Henri (FRA ) 4 332 32 68.4 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 28/27
Koubek, Stefan (AUT ) 3 330 32.8 69.5 ?SYNT ? 23/23
Wessels, Peter (NED ) 4 339 30.5 68.5 BABOLAT VS TEAM 1.30 26/26
Mantilla, Felix (ESP ) 3 318 33.7 69.9 LUXILON BIG BANGER ORIGINAL 1.30 23/21
Garcia-Lopez Guillermo 4 332 31.5 68.8 HEAD ULTRA TOUR 16L 1.27 24/23
Sanguinetti, Davide (ITA ) 3 327 32.2 71.1 KIRSHBAUM COMPETITION 1.30 20/20
Sargsian, Sargis (ARM ) 4 352 31.1 69.7 LUX / WIL Alu power/natural GUT 1.25/1.30 25/25
Schalken, Sjeng (NED ) 5 360 28.5 68.7 BABOLAT VS TOUCH 1.30 27/27
Kuerten, Gustavo (BRA ) 3 347 32.2 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 21/23
Haehnel, Jerome (FRA ) 4 338 31.1 68.1 TECNIFIBRE SPINFIRE MAXI POWER 1.25 24/23
Arthurs, Wayne (AUS ) 3 308 32 69.9 BAB / LUX VS TEAM/BB TIMO 1.27/1.10 25/25
Tipsarevic, Janko (SCG ) 4 326 31 68.4 TECNIFIBRE X3 TDI 1.33 24/23
Burgsmuller, Lars (GER ) 3 346 30.6 70 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 25/24
Wawrinka, Stanislas (SUI ) 3 348 31.3 68.4 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 31/29
Benneteau, Julien (FRA ) 3 338 32.6 69.8 BABOLAT Ballistic PM / VS team 1.25/1.30 28/27
Sluiter, Raemon (NED ) 3 335 32 69.9 PACIFIC POWER 1.35? 24/24
Vliegen, Kristof (BEL ) 3 335 31.5 69.8 TECNIFIBRE Spinfire MP/ X-one biphase 1.25/1.24 25/24
Bjorkman, Jonas (SWE ) 4 349 30.6 70 LUX / BAB ALU POWER/VS TEAM 1.25/1.30 23/23
Behrend, Tomas (GER ) 3 338 29.7 68.4 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 23/22
Saretta, Flavio (BRA ) 3 329 31.9 70 BABOLAT Ballistic PM / VS TEAM 1.30 29/29
Sanchez, David (ESP ) 3 340 31.5 68.6 LUXILON ORIGINAL 24/23
Mahut, Nicolas (FRA ) 4 339 31 68.5 WILSON/TF Natural16/Spinfire Maxi Power 1.30/1.25 23/23
Nieminen, Jarkko (FIN ) 3 350 30.4 70.7 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 25/25
Luczak, Peter (AUS ) 4 355 30.6 70.1 BABOLAT POLYMONO/VS 1.30/1.30 20/20
Serra, Florent (FRA ) 3 336 31.5 70.1 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 27/26
Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried (FRA ) 5 347 30 69.5 LUX / TF ALU POWER / X-ONE 1.25/1.24 24/24
Djokovic, Novak (SCG ) 3 324 31.1 68.2 TECNIFIBRE X ONE 1.24 25/24
Tursunov, Dmitry (RUS ) 4 343 30.5 68.3 LUXILON MonotecSupersense 1.12
Patience, Olivier (FRA ) 3 324 33.3 68.3 LUXILON BIG BANGER ORIGINAL 1.30 26/26
Blake, James (USA) 4 364 30.2 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 31/31
BHUPATHI MAHESH 4 348 31 68.9 WILSON NATURAL 1.30 27/27
ROGER-VASSELIN Edouard 3 322 31.9 69.7 BABOLAT Pro hurricane/ VS PLUS 1.25/1.25 29/29
BLACK WAYNE 3 336 30 68.4 BABOLAT Tour duralast/ XCEL Premium 1.25/1.30 29/29
BRIAN MIKE 4 354 29.7 69.8 TECNIFIBRE NRG 2 1.24 23/24
BRIAN BOB 5 354 29.8 69.8 LUX / TF ALU POWER / NRG 2 1.25/1.24 24/25
DI PASQUALE ARNAUD 4 329 30.6 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 25/24
SQUILLARI FRANCO 4 337 31 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 25/25
DEVILDER NICOLAS 3 340 30.5 68.4 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 23/23
KNOWLE JULIAN 3 337 32.7 68.8 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 17/17
WOODBRIDGE TODD 3 353 30.7 69.8 WILSON NATURAL 1.25 24/24
NESTOR DAVID 5 375 29.5 69.3 BAB / LUX VS Team thermogut/alu powerBB 1.25 26/26
ZIMONJIC NENAD 4 338 30.1 69.6 BAB / LUX vs team/BBaluPowerOD2 12 1.27/?
ULLYETT KEVIN 4 357 29.5 69.5 WILSON NATURAL 1.30 21/21
Clément, Arnaud (FRA) 4 312 31.3 69.9 BABOLAT VS TEAM 1.30 24/24
Click to expand...

very interesting
great effort man , really
 
T

TalkingTennis91

Semi-Pro
Guys, the K90 may be as close to Fed's racquet as you can get, BUT, they could not sell a racquet with a stock swingweight of 370, it wouldn't be reasonable. Very few players could handle a racquet with a swingweight of 370.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
One point I'd like to make that I haven't mentioned in any of my other posts...

One key to success on the pro tour is having a consistent ball response over the entire stringbed. A stock racquet has a much higher ACOR near the throat than it does near the tip, resulting in a big variation in power level.

The only way to get nearly constant power level over the entire length of the stringbed is to add a lot of weight to the upper half of the hoop. This is why almost every modern pro adds lead not only at 3 and 9 (for higher polar moment of inertia) but more importantly plenty of lead under the bumper.

If you think James Blake adds his lead at 3 and 9 only, then you are naive. He probably has a lot of lead at 12 also. A TT poster has actually measured his swingweight at 362. A swingweight of 362 (and 13.4-oz static wt) would be a rocket launcher at mid tension, which is why Blake has to string with Lux at 68 lbs.)

Give me a little time and I'll post a list of my calculated pro swingweights based on Jura's list...
 
federermcenroeagassi

federermcenroeagassi

Rookie
travlerajm said:
If you think James Blake adds his lead at 3 and 9 only, then you are naive. He probably has a lot of lead at 12 also. A TT poster has actually measured his swingweight at 362. A swingweight of 362 (and 13.4-oz static wt) would be a rocket launcher at mid tension, which is why Blake has to string with Lux at 68 lbs.)
Click to expand...

well i think you just proved yourself wrong right there about federer then. he strings in the high 40's. how would he be able to play with the racket if it has tons of lead in the hoop. even for federer, i think that would be impossible. thus, his sw is not as high as 370, i think its 326, or at least in that range. if he does have lead tape, which we dont know, then maybe just a couple of grams here or there, but not enough to get a sw that high.

i think we have to realize federer is a much different type of player than others such as blake who try to blast the crap out of the tennis ball. doesnt this translate to the fact that his equipment will have different types of customizations as opposed to other pro's on tour? i dont know, this is just my opinion.

and yes sureshs, we do know for certain that federer strings in the high 40's, that is not a theory.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
sureshs said:
Did he also reveal the final SW? Without knowing what he does, how can a number be generated?
Click to expand...

A number is generated based on my extensive experience experimenting with frames of a variety of weight, string tension, stiffness, and swingweight.

An insider has posted that his weight an balance were somewhere around 368g and 32cm balance. A racquet with those specs (and his superlow tension) would play best at mid tension with a SW2 swingweight of about 370. The SW1 swingweight (which would be about 330) is not realistic because it is not possible to return pro-caliber serves (or Nadal-like heavy spin) effectively with a swingweight that low.

Also: I rescrutinized my formula for calculating swingweight and found that it does overpredict for extreme HH balances, and underpredict for high static weight, extreme HL balances. So I carefully calculated a correction factor based on sample customization scenarios.

Moya comes in at 432 with the revised formula.
JHH comes in at 389.
Nadal is still at 369.
And Blake is still at 362.

Every player on the ATP tour comes in at ~330 or higher.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
sureshs said:
Did he also reveal the final SW? Without knowing what he does, how can a number be generated?
Click to expand...

A number is generated based on my extensive experience experimenting with frames of a variety of weight, string tension, stiffness, and swingweight.

An insider has posted that his weight an balance were somewhere around 368g and 32cm balance. A racquet with those specs (and his superlow tension) would play best at mid tension with a SW2 swingweight of about 370. The SW1 swingweight (which would be about 330) is not realistic because it is not possible to return pro-caliber serves (or Nadal-like heavy spin) effectively with a swingweight that low.

Also: I rescutinized my formula for calculating swingweight and found that it does overpredict for extreme HH balances, and underpredict for high static weight, extreme HL balances. So I carefully calculated a correction factor based on sample customization scenarios.

Moya comes in at 432 with the revised formula.
JHH comes in at 389.
Nadal is still at 369.
And Blake is still at 362.

Every player on the ATP tour comes in at ~330 or higher.
 
mileslong

mileslong

Professional
there is no way in hell feds racket has a 370 SW. his racket head speed is unmatched, his racket is way head light, im guessing a SW in around 330-340 max. travler was basing his SW thoughts on video! the way the ball comes off the strings, there is just no way to accurately judge what a string weight is by looking at video for gods sake.

just using using common sense i would bet im within 5lbs either way of being right. 370 is an insane SW and feds whole game is based on being able to whip that racket head of his around in a split second. also remember that he strings his rackets lower than anyone on tour and if he had a SW of 370 with that super low tension with gut mains then his balls would go flying off the back fence without incredible topspin. you have to have a high swing speed in order to produce that much spin and superman is the only one on the planet that could whip 370 around like fed does and hes not even that strong.

common sense people...

Every player on the ATP tour comes in at ~330 or higher.
Click to expand...
i appreciate your posts traveler and im sure youre a great guy but that statement is just false...

JHH at 389? thats insane...
 
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T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
mileslong said:
there is no way in hell feds racket has a 370 SW. his racket head speed is unmatched, his racket is way head light, im guessing a SW in around 330-340 max. travler was basing his SW thoughts on video! the way the ball comes off the strings, there is just no way to accurately judge what a string weight is by looking at video for gods sake.

just using using common sense i would bet im within 5lbs either way of being right. 370 is an insane SW and feds whole game is based on being able to whip that racket head of his around in a split second. also remember that he strings his rackets lower than anyone on tour and if he had a SW of 370 with that super low tension with gut mains then his balls would go flying off the back fence without incredible topspin. you have to have a high swing speed in order to produce that much spin and superman is the only one on the planet that could whip 370 around like fed does and hes not even that strong.

common sense people...


i appreciate your posts traveler and im sure youre a great guy but that statement is just false...

JHH at 389? thats insane...
Click to expand...


You forget that at high swingweights, the more mass you add to the handle, the faster your swingspeed. And an insider poster has picked up and swung Fed's racquet and estimated his SW in the 360s based on the "heft" test.

And a swingweight of 370 is more spin-friendly than a swingweight of 330. Just ask Nadal (we have measured numbers for him).

Also, how do you propose to design JHH's racquet with a low swingweight when it weighs 304g with a balance of 36.2cm?

And who do you think has a lower swingweight than 330? The lowest is probably Schalken (comes in at 327 with my revised formula, the only one under 330). But considering that his racquet weighs 375g, that estimate is probably still a little low.
 
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T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
federermcenroeagassi said:
well i think you just proved yourself wrong right there about federer then. he strings in the high 40's. how would he be able to play with the racket if it has tons of lead in the hoop. even for federer, i think that would be impossible. thus, his sw is not as high as 370, i think its 326, or at least in that range. if he does have lead tape, which we dont know, then maybe just a couple of grams here or there, but not enough to get a sw that high.
Click to expand...

How did I prove myself wrong? A swingweight of 370 has roughly the same power level as a swingweight of 326. The former has more mass, while the latter has more swing velocity, but the momentum transfered to the ball is the same. And by adding lots of mass to the handle (an insider has weighed one of his racquets at 368g), it makes his racquet naturally swing faster than the swing speed of most pros (like a metronome with weight added near the pivot swings faster than one with no weight added). So he needs to string at super-low tension to take the power level away or else his racquet would be overpowered.
 
jackson vile

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
mileslong said:
there is no way in hell feds racket has a 370 SW. his racket head speed is unmatched, his racket is way head light, im guessing a SW in around 330-340 max. travler was basing his SW thoughts on video! the way the ball comes off the strings, there is just no way to accurately judge what a string weight is by looking at video for gods sake.

just using using common sense i would bet im within 5lbs either way of being right. 370 is an insane SW and feds whole game is based on being able to whip that racket head of his around in a split second. also remember that he strings his rackets lower than anyone on tour and if he had a SW of 370 with that super low tension with gut mains then his balls would go flying off the back fence without incredible topspin. you have to have a high swing speed in order to produce that much spin and superman is the only one on the planet that could whip 370 around like fed does and hes not even that strong.

common sense people...


i appreciate your posts traveler and im sure youre a great guy but that statement is just false...

JHH at 389? thats insane...
Click to expand...


Miles you are a true incompetitent troll with no education was so ever especially that of math LOL

Jura himself said that Roger has a SW around 365 end of story, and that his racket is little over 13oz with a balance of around 31cm.

Further more Roger himself said on his site that he has weight added to his racket.

You are a moron if you think that out of all the pros he does not mod his rackets, especially after he said he did and the fact that his rackets allways go to Priority and that is what they do customize the pros racket, all advanced level players customize their rackets starting around the 5.0 level.

You would not know that though because you lack any though what so ever.
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Isn't it possible that some of these guys have custom molds? Thus, Fed's racquet is heavier and has a higher SW in stock form than what we can buy.
 
downey stringing master

downey stringing master

Semi-Pro
bluetrain4 said:
Isn't it possible that some of these guys have custom molds? Thus, Fed's racquet is heavier and has a higher SW in stock form than what we can buy.
Click to expand...

i think/know tommy haas has this done , a guy makes the rackets from scratch and so on an then he gets the pj. but i think fed uses sort sort of ps 85 mold/compositions and has his own customs added to it. only nate and P1 will know.. but at the end of the day why do you want to know ? its not like your going to use his setup , because its ment to be pacific to your game! just use what setups you like !
 
fastswingVD

fastswingVD

Rookie
sureshs said:
Federer is missing, but Nadal and Moya are there. Note that there are no SWs here. They must have been calculated. The whole thing then hinges on that calculation, no empirical evidence?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a list of a lot of pro's racket specs, taken at the French Open stringing service:
(It's a bit confusing to read, but I had a lot of work with it, now you have to concentrate, too )

Player grip size weight(unstrung) balance(unstrung) Lengthcm String brand String type diameter Tension
Gaudio, Gaston (ARG ) 4 363 30.8 68.7 KIRSCHBAUM SUPER SMASH 1.30 27/27
Nadal, Rafael (ESP ) 2 321 32.2 68.5
BABOLAT TOUR DURALAST 1.35 25/24
Agassi, Andre (USA ) 343 32 68.5
LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 27/27
Moya, Carlos (ESP ) 3 307 36.6 68.5
LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 28/28
Canas, Guillermo (ARG ) 3 355 30.9 70.8 KIRSCHBAUM SUPER SMASH 1.30 24/24
Robredo, Tommy (ESP ) 3 339 32 69.8 25/24
Davydenko, Nikolay (RUS ) 3 317 32.1 69.7
POLYSTAR ENERGY 24/23
Stepanek, Radek (CZE ) 3 348 30.1 68.6
PACIFIC PRIME GUT 16 28/26
Johansson, Thomas (SWE ) 3 333 30.9 68.4 LUX / BAB ALU POWER/VS TEAM 1.25/1.30 27/27
Ancic, Mario (CRO ) 2 350 30.3 68.5 BAB / LUX VS/ALU POWER 1.30/1.25 26/25
Gonzalez, Fernando (CHI ) 3 346 30.2 70.3 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 27/27
Massu, Nicolas (CHI ) 3 345 31.1 69.9 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 23.5/23.5
Ferrer, David (ESP ) 2 332 32.1 70.7 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 22/22
Grosjean, Sebastien (FRA ) 3 348 31.5 70.5 BAB / LUX VS / ALU POWER 1.30/1.25 22/21
Kiefer, Nicolas (GER ) 3 343 32.6 69.1 BABOLAT VS TEAM / Ballistic PM 1.27/1.25 28/27
Volandri, Filippo (ITA ) 3 343 30.8 68.4 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 20/20
Spadea, Vincent (USA ) 3 349 30 68.3 PRINCE / LUX Natural gut/BB alu power 1.35/1.25 34/34
Rochus, Olivier (BEL ) 3 325 31.1 69.9 LUXILON BIG BANG ALU POWER 1.25 23/22
Srichaphan, Paradorn (THA ) 4 336 30.2 68.5 LUX / BAB Alu power / VS TOUCH 1.25/1.30 24.5/23.5
Melzer, Jurgen (AUT ) 4 316 31 70.8 Muster/ISP TVP 1-39/professionnal 1.30/1.20 30/30
Malisse, Xavier (BEL ) 3 315 31.4 71.5 BABOLAT FIBERTOUR 1.30 29/29
Andreev, Igor (RUS ) 3 323 32.3 69.9 BABOLAT 25/24
Soderling, Robin (SWE ) 4 364 31.3 68.9 LUXILON BB ALU POWER ROUGH 1.25 27/27
Mirnyi, Max (BLR ) 4 352 30.4 68.3 WIL / LUX Natural 16/alu power 1.30/1.25 21/21
Beck, Karol (SVK ) 3 336 30.8 68.2 BABOLAT VS TOUCH 1.30 28/27
Rusedski, Greg (GBR ) 4 350 30.8 68.5 BABOLAT VS 1.30 24.5/24.5
Saulnier, Cyril (FRA ) 3 340 31.2 70.2 HEAD NAURAL GUT 26/25
Llodra, Michael (FRA ) 2 326 31 6.7 LUX / WIL Alu Power/Natural Gut 1.25/1.30 21/23
Horna, Luis (PER ) 3 339 30.7 68.6 LUXILON BB ALU POWER ROUGH 1.25 25/25
Carlsen, Kenneth (DEN ) 3 342 31 68.8 BABOLAT VS TEAM 1.30 32/31
Martin, Alberto (ESP ) 3 316 31.8 69.9 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 23.5/21.5
Schuettler, Rainer (GER ) 3 339 30.9 BDE POLYSTAR 1.30? 26/25
Karlovic, Ivo (CRO )
5 350 31 68.4 LUX / BAB ALU POWER/VS TEAM 1.25/1.30 25/25
Acasuso, Jose (ARG ) 4 332 31.1 68.4 HEAD FXP 17 25/26
Ginepri, Robby (USA ) 3 342 31.6 69.8 BABOLAT Ballistic PM / VS TEAM 1.30/1.30 28/28
Ventura, Santiago (ESP ) 3 318 33 69.5 LUXILON BIG BANGER ORIGINAL 1.30 27/27
Monaco, Juan (ARG ) 3 346 31.2 68.5 YONEX TG TOUGH ERID 1.30 25/25
Mathieu, Paul-Henri (FRA ) 4 332 32 68.4 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 28/27
Koubek, Stefan (AUT ) 3 330 32.8 69.5 ?SYNT ? 23/23
Wessels, Peter (NED ) 4 339 30.5 68.5 BABOLAT VS TEAM 1.30 26/26
Mantilla, Felix (ESP ) 3 318 33.7 69.9 LUXILON BIG BANGER ORIGINAL 1.30 23/21
Garcia-Lopez Guillermo 4 332 31.5 68.8 HEAD ULTRA TOUR 16L 1.27 24/23
Sanguinetti, Davide (ITA ) 3 327 32.2 71.1 KIRSHBAUM COMPETITION 1.30 20/20
Sargsian, Sargis (ARM ) 4 352 31.1 69.7 LUX / WIL Alu power/natural GUT 1.25/1.30 25/25
Schalken, Sjeng (NED ) 5 360 28.5 68.7 BABOLAT VS TOUCH 1.30 27/27
Kuerten, Gustavo (BRA ) 3 347 32.2 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 21/23
Haehnel, Jerome (FRA ) 4 338 31.1 68.1 TECNIFIBRE SPINFIRE MAXI POWER 1.25 24/23
Arthurs, Wayne (AUS ) 3 308 32 69.9 BAB / LUX VS TEAM/BB TIMO 1.27/1.10 25/25
Tipsarevic, Janko (SCG ) 4 326 31 68.4 TECNIFIBRE X3 TDI 1.33 24/23
Burgsmuller, Lars (GER ) 3 346 30.6 70 LUXILON ORIGINAL 1.30 25/24
Wawrinka, Stanislas (SUI ) 3 348 31.3 68.4 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 31/29
Benneteau, Julien (FRA ) 3 338 32.6 69.8 BABOLAT Ballistic PM / VS team 1.25/1.30 28/27
Sluiter, Raemon (NED ) 3 335 32 69.9 PACIFIC POWER 1.35? 24/24
Vliegen, Kristof (BEL ) 3 335 31.5 69.8 TECNIFIBRE Spinfire MP/ X-one biphase 1.25/1.24 25/24
Bjorkman, Jonas (SWE ) 4 349 30.6 70 LUX / BAB ALU POWER/VS TEAM 1.25/1.30 23/23
Behrend, Tomas (GER ) 3 338 29.7 68.4 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 23/22
Saretta, Flavio (BRA ) 3 329 31.9 70 BABOLAT Ballistic PM / VS TEAM 1.30 29/29
Sanchez, David (ESP ) 3 340 31.5 68.6 LUXILON ORIGINAL 24/23
Mahut, Nicolas (FRA ) 4 339 31 68.5 WILSON/TF Natural16/Spinfire Maxi Power 1.30/1.25 23/23
Nieminen, Jarkko (FIN ) 3 350 30.4 70.7 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 25/25
Luczak, Peter (AUS ) 4 355 30.6 70.1 BABOLAT POLYMONO/VS 1.30/1.30 20/20
Serra, Florent (FRA ) 3 336 31.5 70.1 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 27/26
Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried (FRA ) 5 347 30 69.5 LUX / TF ALU POWER / X-ONE 1.25/1.24 24/24
Djokovic, Novak (SCG ) 3 324 31.1 68.2 TECNIFIBRE X ONE 1.24 25/24
Tursunov, Dmitry (RUS ) 4 343 30.5 68.3 LUXILON MonotecSupersense 1.12
Patience, Olivier (FRA ) 3 324 33.3 68.3 LUXILON BIG BANGER ORIGINAL 1.30 26/26
Blake, James (USA) 4 364 30.2 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 31/31
BHUPATHI MAHESH 4 348 31 68.9 WILSON NATURAL 1.30 27/27
ROGER-VASSELIN Edouard 3 322 31.9 69.7 BABOLAT Pro hurricane/ VS PLUS 1.25/1.25 29/29
BLACK WAYNE 3 336 30 68.4 BABOLAT Tour duralast/ XCEL Premium 1.25/1.30 29/29
BRIAN MIKE 4 354 29.7 69.8 TECNIFIBRE NRG 2 1.24 23/24
BRIAN BOB 5 354 29.8 69.8 LUX / TF ALU POWER / NRG 2 1.25/1.24 24/25
DI PASQUALE ARNAUD 4 329 30.6 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 25/24
SQUILLARI FRANCO 4 337 31 68.5 LUXILON ALU POWER 1.25 25/25
DEVILDER NICOLAS 3 340 30.5 68.4 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 23/23
KNOWLE JULIAN 3 337 32.7 68.8 LUXILON BB ALU POWER 1.25 17/17
WOODBRIDGE TODD 3 353 30.7 69.8 WILSON NATURAL 1.25 24/24
NESTOR DAVID 5 375 29.5 69.3 BAB / LUX VS Team thermogut/alu powerBB 1.25 26/26
ZIMONJIC NENAD 4 338 30.1 69.6 BAB / LUX vs team/BBaluPowerOD2 12 1.27/?
ULLYETT KEVIN 4 357 29.5 69.5 WILSON NATURAL 1.30 21/21
Clément, Arnaud (FRA) 4 312 31.3 69.9 BABOLAT VS TEAM 1.30 24/24
Click to expand...
nice thanks a bunch
 
vsbabolat

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
travlerajm said:
A number is generated based on my extensive experience experimenting with frames of a variety of weight, string tension, stiffness, and swingweight.

An insider has posted that his weight an balance were somewhere around 368g and 32cm balance. A racquet with those specs (and his superlow tension) would play best at mid tension with a SW2 swingweight of about 370. The SW1 swingweight (which would be about 330) is not realistic because it is not possible to return pro-caliber serves (or Nadal-like heavy spin) effectively with a swingweight that low.

Also: I rescutinized my formula for calculating swingweight and found that it does overpredict for extreme HH balances, and underpredict for high static weight, extreme HL balances. So I carefully calculated a correction factor based on sample customization scenarios.

Moya comes in at 432 with the revised formula.
JHH comes in at 389.
Nadal is still at 369.
And Blake is still at 362.

Every player on the ATP tour comes in at ~330 or higher.
Click to expand...

According to Greg Raven Nadel's swing weight is 355 and Federer's swing weight is 330.

http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/pro_racquet_specs.html
 
Fedace

Fedace

Banned
sureshs said:
I have asked him about the source of the numbers in another thread. He had;

Fed and Nadal: 370 (not combined hehehe)
Moya: 470
Ju: 407

The last one he said was calculated by him. He will clarify on the others.

But point is, if Fed's SW is 370, it is a whole different beast from the K90/N90, and players who are getting it because it is Fed's racquet are completely off the mark. Not some minor mods off the mark, but totally.

Else the number 370 has to be challenged.

Either way something to think about
Click to expand...
Are you kidding me ?? Moya with SW of 470 ? only the jolly green giant can use a racket with that swing weight.
 
Deuce

Deuce

Banned
vsbabolat said:
According to Greg Raven Nadel's swing weight is 355 and Federer's swing weight is 330.

http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/pro_racquet_specs.html
Click to expand...
I'm admittedly not a fan of this sort of stuff.
I file it under 'gossip'.

There is at least one important variable in Greg's 'testing' that is not addressed - and that is how old each tested racquet was when tested.
Did he measure the used frames of the pros against brand new frames from the store? Or new frames from the pros vs. used frames bought at stores? If so, this might account for the difference in flex numbers.

Also, the supposed 'Federer racquet' Greg tested, as I recall, was a racquet given to the USRSA by Wilson, with Wilson claiming that it was "Federer's actual racquet". In other words, Greg didn't get it from Federer - he got it from the USRSA, who got it from Wilson.
Greg writes:
I should point out that Wilson has provided USRSA with other players' frames over the years, and in each case I can remember, it provided what appeared to be the actual frame, not the retail version of that frame, even when the player's frame was way different than the retail frame it appeared to be. I find it difficult to believe that in this one case, Wilson would supply USRSA with some mutant version of a player's frame.

Well, I don't find it difficult to believe at all that Wilson would provide a racquet that is not Federer's, and claim that it's Federer's. For one, Federer is not just another pro player - he is Wilson's main meal ticket. Secondly, Wilson, along with all other racquet companies, have gone to great lengths and expenses over the years in lying to the public in an effort to convince us that their players are really using the frames we can buy in stores.
Of course, knowing that someone may test the racquet and publish the results, it was in Wilson's best commercial interest to provide a regular stock racquet - or even a specially-made close to stock racquet - and claim that it's Federer's racquet. This way, when people view the published test, they'll see that there is very little, if any, difference between "Federer's racquet" and the stock racquet.
Remember - every racquet company spends a hell of a lot of money in lying to the public, telling them that pro player 'X' really uses a stock racquet model 'Y'. So it's entirely possible - I'd say probable - that Wilson provided a regular stock racquet and claimed it was "Federer's actual racquet". Maybe Wilson even painted Federer's name on it, as well, to make it look more legitimate. In the marketing game, no effort to fool the masses is spared.

That's why I take these things with a huge grain of salt.
 
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AlpineCadet

AlpineCadet

Hall of Fame
Deuce said:
...

Also, the supposed 'Federer racquet' Greg tested, as I recall, was a racquet given to Greg by Wilson, with Wilson claiming that it was "Federer's actual racquet". In other words, Greg didn't get it from Federer - he got it from Wilson.

Of course, knowing that Greg was going to publish his test results, it was in Wilson's interest to give Greg a regular stock racquet, and tell him that it's Federer's racquet.

...

That's why I take these things with a huge grain of salt.
Click to expand...
Quoted for truth.
 
vsbabolat

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Deuce said:
I'm admittedly not a fan of this sort of stuff.
I file it under 'gossip'.

There is at least one important variable in Greg's 'testing' that is not addressed - and that is how old each tested racquet was when tested.
Did he measure the used frames of the pros against brand new frames from the store? Or new frames from the pros vs. used frames bought at stores? If so, this might account for the difference in flex numbers.

Also, the supposed 'Federer racquet' Greg tested, as I recall, was a racquet given to the USRSA by Wilson, with Wilson claiming that it was "Federer's actual racquet". In other words, Greg didn't get it from Federer - he got it from the USRSA, who got it from Wilson.
Greg writes:
I should point out that Wilson has provided USRSA with other players' frames over the years, and in each case I can remember, it provided what appeared to be the actual frame, not the retail version of that frame, even when the player's frame was way different than the retail frame it appeared to be. I find it difficult to believe that in this one case, Wilson would supply USRSA with some mutant version of a player's frame.

Well, I don't find it difficult to believe at all that Wilson would provide a racquet that is not Federer's, and claim that it's Federer's. For one, Federer is not just another pro player - he is Wilson's main meal ticket. Secondly, Wilson, along with all other racquet companies, have gone to great lengths and expenses over the years in lying to the public in an effort to convince us that their players are really using the frames we can buy in stores.
Of course, knowing that someone may test the racquet and publish the results, it was in Wilson's best commercial interest to provide a regular stock racquet - or even a specially-made close to stock racquet - and claim that it's Federer's racquet. This way, when people view the published test, they'll see that there is very little, if any, difference between "Federer's racquet" and the stock racquet.
Remember - every racquet company spends a hell of a lot of money in lying to the public, telling them that pro player 'X' really uses a stock racquet model 'Y'. So it's entirely possible - I'd say probable - that Wilson provided a regular stock racquet and claimed it was "Federer's actual racquet". Maybe Wilson even painted Federer's name on it, as well, to make it look more legitimate. In the marketing game, no effort to fool the masses is spared.

That's why I take these things with a huge grain of salt.
Click to expand...

I take things with a grain of salt. Looking at the photos below and differences between the retail version and the Federer version, I have no reason to doubt Greg. I do doubt people who claim to know the specs but have never physically measured the racquet specs (swing weight) themselves.

Gerg said on his website.
Roger's racquet is different from the retail version in some ways. Among these are:
The "pallet" (the portion of the racquet where you hold the racquet during play) is shorter on Roger's racquet. This could be because the earlier Wilson racquets Roger used had shorter pallets, or it could be because Roger used to use a shorter overgrip such as the Unique Tourna Grip, which necessitated a shorter pallet (he now uses the Wilson Pro Overgrip).
The spacing of the cross strings is more even on Roger's racquet. On the retail versions, Wilson uses differential spacing on the crosses, which make the playing characteristics more predictable. This spacing difference is most easily seen in the "PWS" sections at 3 and 9 o'clock on the hoop, wherein there are only four cross strings on Roger's racquet, while there are five on the retail version.
The sections of red and white graphics on the hoop are slightly different on Roger's racquet, to match the different spacing of the crosses.
The bumperguard and grommet strip on Roger's racquet are slightly different on Roger's racquet, to accommodate the different spacing on the crosses.
For confirmation of the visual differences between Roger's racquet and the retail version, see my series of photos comparing the two. In these photos, Roger's racquet has the "W" stencil on the string. USRSA received this racquet directly from Wilson for use at the U.S. Open Kids' Day program. The strings are not those used by Roger, as those were install by USRSA.

Here are the visual differences between the retail N6-1 Tour 90 and the N-6-1 Tour 90 that is claimed to be Federer's that Greg Raven has.
http://homepage.mac.com/gregraven/tennis/PhotoAlbum10.html
FED1.jpg

FED2.jpg

FED3.jpg

FEDspacing.jpg
 
Last edited:
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vsbabolat said:
I take things with a grain of salt. Looking at the photos below and differences between the retail version and the Federer version, I have no reason to doubt Greg.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that Greg is intentionally misleading people.
If Greg truly believes that the racquet they got from Wilson is really Federer's actual frame, then so be it.
I'm just saying that I would require substantially more evidence than the word of a Wilson employee.
vsbabolat said:
Gerg said on his website.
Roger's racquet is different from the retail version in some ways. Among these are:
The "pallet" (the portion of the racquet where you hold the racquet during play) is shorter on Roger's racquet. This could be because the earlier Wilson racquets Roger used had shorter pallets, or it could be because Roger used to use a shorter overgrip such as the Unique Tourna Grip, which necessitated a shorter pallet (he now uses the Wilson Pro Overgrip).
The spacing of the cross strings is more even on Roger's racquet. On the retail versions, Wilson uses differential spacing on the crosses, which make the playing characteristics more predictable. This spacing difference is most easily seen in the "PWS" sections at 3 and 9 o'clock on the hoop, wherein there are only four cross strings on Roger's racquet, while there are five on the retail version.
The sections of red and white graphics on the hoop are slightly different on Roger's racquet, to match the different spacing of the crosses.
The bumperguard and grommet strip on Roger's racquet are slightly different on Roger's racquet, to accommodate the different spacing on the crosses.
For confirmation of the visual differences between Roger's racquet and the retail version, see my series of photos comparing the two. In these photos, Roger's racquet has the "W" stencil on the string. USRSA received this racquet directly from Wilson for use at the U.S. Open Kids' Day program. The strings are not those used by Roger, as those were install by USRSA.
Click to expand...

But Greg also wrote:
"There is no reason to believe that Roger's racquet is anything but a Wilson nSix-One Tour 90, which has been modified to Roger's individual wishes by the Wilson Pro Room."
Which, to me, contradicts your Greg quote above.
As well, the K Factor 6.1 is also supposed to be the "real Federer racquet".

To me, it all smells of typical marketing, turning in ever tightening circles.
And I see no evidence that Greg is any further ahead than the rest of us when it comes to knowing what racquet Federer is actually using.
The only thing that's clear to me is that Greg cares a lot more than I do about Federer's racquet.
 
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