Roger Federer gives verdict on Novak Djokovic’s latest bid to hold all four Grand Slam titles

M

mwym

Professional
PC results in no content. No content helps illusion of inclusion. Every human feels included, and competent, while generating more profit to celebrate good life.

It is less intelectually demanding and less in contact with reality than any classic fairy tale. It reminds me of cartoons for intellectually chalenged children used to teach them/train them for basic social relations and skills.

While masked as an ultimate noble intention, flooding public discourse with such a content is a borderline insulting for a human with an average IQ and above.
 
Lew II

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Highest winning percentage on their worst surface, in bold active players (5 out of 27):

Djokovic 79.3
Nadal 77.4
Connors 76.6
Laver 76.2
Federer 75.9
Borg 75.2
Lendl 75.0
Agassi 72.7
Wilander 72.3
McEnroe 71.9
Newcombe 71.7
Ashe 70.9
Rosewall 70.5
Murray 69.9
Smith 69.8
Del Potro 69.6
Vilas 69.1
Okker 68.8
Edberg 68.3
Gerulaitis 67.1
Richey 67.1
Mecir 66.7
Becker 66.3
Stich 66.1
Nastase 66.1
Nalbandian 65.6
Ramirez 65.5
 
Last edited:
Nadalgaenger

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Lew II said:
Highest winning percentage on their worst surface, in bold active players:

Djokovic 79.3
Nadal 77.4
Connors 76.6
Laver 76.2
Federer 75.9
Borg 75.2
Lendl 75.0
Agassi 72.7
Wilander 72.3
McEnroe 71.9
Newcombe 71.7
Ashe 70.9
Rosewall 70.5
Murray 69.9
Smith 69.8
Del Potro 69.6
Vilas 69.1
Okker 68.8
Edberg 68.3
Gerulaitis 67.1
Richey 67.1
Mecir 66.7
Becker 66.3
Stich 66.1
Nastase 66.1
Nalbandian 65.6
Ramirez 65.5
Click to expand...
Where’s Sampras?;)
 
Lew II

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
First, versatile players have already existed, as I showed in post #6.

Second, players are now more complete. Federer is a Sampras with better movement/backhand, which allows him to be good on clay too (but still not as good as on fast courts).
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
My
Lew II said:
Highest winning percentage on their worst surface, in bold active players (5 out of 27):

Djokovic 79.3
Nadal 77.4
Connors 76.6
Laver 76.2
Federer 75.9
Borg 75.2
Lendl 75.0
Agassi 72.7
Wilander 72.3
McEnroe 71.9
Newcombe 71.7
Ashe 70.9
Rosewall 70.5
Murray 69.9
Smith 69.8
Del Potro 69.6
Vilas 69.1
Okker 68.8
Edberg 68.3
Gerulaitis 67.1
Richey 67.1
Mecir 66.7
Becker 66.3
Stich 66.1
Nastase 66.1
Nalbandian 65.6
Ramirez 65.5
Click to expand...

Good to see (the real) Raul make it!
 
Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Hitman said:
I guess you missed the thread on it yesterday that ended up getting deleted
Click to expand...
Why was it deleted? The subject should be fine. There must have been trolling and fighting.

I do have a couple thoughts. Fed says it's easier to do today. But doesn't make us immediately ask, "If it is now easier, why couldn't he do it?"

I can't help but think that he is subtly degrading the importance of what is happening. Mind you, RG is anything but a done deal. Rafa is not the only guy who can steal that upcoming major from him. But if Gumby does it again, I have to say he'll have as strong bragging rights for GOAT as any other player. Even Laver only did it once as a pro.
 
beard

beard

Legend
When someone as Gary says something like this about Federer, fed fans should put finger on their forehead and think about it. Federer is sore grape-ing more and more ...
Gary Duane said:
Why was it deleted? The subject should be fine. There must have been trolling and fighting.

I do have a couple thoughts. Fed says it's easier to do today. But doesn't make us immediately ask, "If it is now easier, why couldn't he do it?"

I can't help but think that he is subtly degrading the importance of what is happening. Mind you, RG is anything but a done deal. Rafa is not the only guy who can steal that upcoming major from him. But if Gumby does it again, I have to say he'll have as strong bragging rights for GOAT as any other player. Even Laver only did it once as a pro.
Click to expand...

About "Its not as it was" I will only write this:
Wimbledon - RG
Federer 8-1
Nadal 2-11
Borg 5-6
...Yes, its practically the same
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Gary Duane said:
Why was it deleted? The subject should be fine. There must have been trolling and fighting.

I do have a couple thoughts. Fed says it's easier to do today. But doesn't make us immediately ask, "If it is now easier, why couldn't he do it?"

I can't help but think that he is subtly degrading the importance of what is happening. Mind you, RG is anything but a done deal. Rafa is not the only guy who can steal that upcoming major from him. But if Gumby does it again, I have to say he'll have as strong bragging rights for GOAT as any other player. Even Laver only did it once as a pro.
Click to expand...

Yes, deleted due to trolling and fighting. The usual.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Gary Duane said:
Why was it deleted? The subject should be fine. There must have been trolling and fighting.

I do have a couple thoughts. Fed says it's easier to do today. But doesn't make us immediately ask, "If it is now easier, why couldn't he do it?"

I can't help but think that he is subtly degrading the importance of what is happening. Mind you, RG is anything but a done deal. Rafa is not the only guy who can steal that upcoming major from him. But if Gumby does it again, I have to say he'll have as strong bragging rights for GOAT as any other player. Even Laver only did it once as a pro.
Click to expand...

Because of this guy at his peak on clay:

Rafael+Nadal+French+Open+Day+Three+Jx3v9AH7vJrl.jpg


... but I am sure that you already knew that, so why pretend that you don't understand what Federer is saying?

:cool:
 
RF-18

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Tennis_Hands said:
Because of this guy at his peak on clay:

Rafael+Nadal+French+Open+Day+Three+Jx3v9AH7vJrl.jpg


... but I am sure that you already knew that, so why pretend that you don't understand what Federer is saying?

:cool:
Click to expand...

He could of done it in 2009 when Del Po was his last obstacle, but he couldn't do it. So enough with the Nadal stuff and excuses.
 
RF-18

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Everybody plays and trains under the same conditions and tailor their game in the best possible way to match the game. So It evens out in the end. Djokovic plays against these players, he isn't playing players from the ''specialist'' era.

Hard Courts, clay and grass is still different from each other and they play different. Players have gotten more complete as the years have gone by and the game has improved.
 
Lew II

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Wins over top10s on clay:

2004-08 Federer 11
2011-15 Djokovic 23

Let's not act like Federer was an unstoppable force on clay for young Nadal.
 
beard

beard

Legend
Bender said:
Is it easier to win all four titles when one plays completely different to the other three, or is it easier to win all four titles when all four tournaments only play slightly different to each other?
Click to expand...

Are you real????

Federer: Wimbledon-RG 8-1
Nadal: Wimbledon-RG 2-11
Borg: Wimbledon-RG 5-6
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
beard said:
Are you real????

Federer: Wimbledon-RG 8-1
Nadal: Wimbledon-RG 2-11
Borg: Wimbledon-RG 5-6
Click to expand...

All that shows is that Fed is good on grass and Nadal is good on clay. It’s not proof that the surfaces are completely different.

Clay and slow HC may play very similarly but there are inherent differences that you can’t get around, and Nadal’s game works best with those differences (eg movement).

It doesn’t necessarily mean that the differences are huge.

By your assertions, USO, AO, Miami, and IW may as well be four completely different surfaces given how well Nadal has performed at some of them while he’s performed so poorly (relatively) at others.

In fact Borg even contradicts your point since he’s won almost equally as much at RG and at Wimbledon. Surely that would mean that grass and clay were the same back then?
 
Lew II

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
MajesticTennisManiac said:
Top 10 players that defeated Federer on clay during 2004-08-

Nadal

Top 10 players that defeated Djokovic on clay during 2011-15-

Federer
Nadal
Tipsarević
Berdych
Wawrinka
Click to expand...
against top10:

2011-15 Djokovic 69.7%
2004-08 Federer 55%

Djokovic is better than Federer on clay in every stat.
 
T

thrust

Legend
Gary Duane said:
Why was it deleted? The subject should be fine. There must have been trolling and fighting.

I do have a couple thoughts. Fed says it's easier to do today. But doesn't make us immediately ask, "If it is now easier, why couldn't he do it?"

I can't help but think that he is subtly degrading the importance of what is happening. Mind you, RG is anything but a done deal. Rafa is not the only guy who can steal that upcoming major from him. But if Gumby does it again, I have to say he'll have as strong bragging rights for GOAT as any other player. Even Laver only did it once as a pro.
Click to expand...
Novak's and Rod's achievement are equally great. Roger is correct in that it was more difficult to win the French and Wimbledon the same year, in Rod's and Borg's era. Roger's problem was peak Nadal who was unbeatable on the RG courts, otherwise, I am sure he would have accomplished what Rod and Borg did. On the pro tour the French Pro and Wembley were usually played on consecutive weeks. In 60,61 and 62 Rosewall won both the French, on RG courts, then the following week won Wembley on very fast wood courts. It is undeniable that Novak is an ATG player whether he holds all four slam titles at the same time, again or not.
 
Tshooter

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
mwym said:
PC results in no content. No content helps illusion of inclusion. Every human feels included, and competent, while generating more profit to celebrate good life.

It is less intelectually demanding and less in contact with reality than any classic fairy tale. It reminds me of cartoons for intellectually chalenged children used to teach them/train them for basic social relations and skills.

While masked as an ultimate noble intention, flooding public discourse with such a content is a borderline insulting for a human with an average IQ and above.
Click to expand...

Hey Plato, it’s doubtful but you might sound mildly more coherent if you could spell the word intellectually and use basic grammar. And every person should feel included and competent [self-censored].
 
Last edited:
beard

beard

Legend
Bender said:
All that shows is that Fed is good on grass and Nadal is good on clay. It’s not proof that the surfaces are completely different.

Clay and slow HC may play very similarly but there are inherent differences that you can’t get around, and Nadal’s game works best with those differences (eg movement).

It doesn’t necessarily mean that the differences are huge.

By your assertions, USO, AO, Miami, and IW may as well be four completely different surfaces given how well Nadal has performed at some of them while he’s performed so poorly (relatively) at others.

In fact Borg even contradicts your point since he’s won almost equally as much at RG and at Wimbledon. Surely that would mean that grass and clay were the same back then?
Click to expand...
First bold.
Two sentences that contradict each other. If surfaces are similar why is Fed so good on grass and Nadal on clay?
Second bold.
It can be looked that way, I also noticed while writing that, or that can also mean that even on highly different surfaces good player can win both, without excuses.

The point on the end is that Novak did something Federer didnt, have oportunity to do it twice, and Federer is trying to diminish his success. Poor attitude from him.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
RF-18 said:
Everybody plays and trains under the same conditions and tailor their game in the best possible way to match the game. So It evens out in the end. Djokovic plays against these players, he isn't playing players from the ''specialist'' era.

Hard Courts, clay and grass is still different from each other and they play different. Players have gotten more complete as the years have gone by and the game has improved.
Click to expand...
Remind me how many top 10 players of Fed’s era is the current No 3 is beating at a major

Fed
Nadal
Agassi
Nalbandian
Hewitt
Safin
Roddick
Herman
Coria
gaudio
 
M

MajesticTennisManiac

Rookie
Lew II said:
Which is more prestigious?

Nalbandian x3
Coria x2
Davydenko x2
Nadal
Djokovic
Moya
Robredo

or

Nadal x6
Federer x3
Ferrer x3
Murray x2
Tsonga x2
Berdych x2
Raonic x2
Soderling
Nishikori
Cilic
Click to expand...

Latter because of Nadal 6x
Not because of padding Top-10 stats with wins over Raonic,Cilic,Tsonga,etc.

For instance,Federer defeated #14 Gonzalez in 2004 who has more wins against top-10 on clay than Cilic(3-17),Raonic(3-15),Tsonga(6-18),Nishikori(7-14),
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
beard said:
First bold.
Two sentences that contradict each other. If surfaces are similar why is Fed so good on grass and Nadal on clay?
Second bold.
It can be looked that way, I also noticed while writing that, or that can also mean that even on highly different surfaces good player can win both, without excuses.

The point on the end is that Novak did something Federer didnt, have oportunity to do it twice, and Federer is trying to diminish his success. Poor attitude from him.
Click to expand...

I addressed the point about how Fed’s good on grass and how Rafa’s good on clay, ie the part about how there are inherent / intrinsic differences between the surfaces and how each of them have games that exploit those differences better than anyone else.

That is not inconsistent with the possibility that the surfaces are similar. Note that I am saying they are similar, not different. Similar means there are differences.
 
beard

beard

Legend
Bender said:
I addressed the point about how Fed’s good on grass and how Rafa’s good on clay, ie the part about how there are inherent / intrinsic differences between the surfaces and how each of them have games that exploit those differences better than anyone else.

That is not inconsistent with the possibility that the surfaces are similar. Note that I am saying they are similar, not different. Similar means there are differences.
Click to expand...
If surfaces are similar, difference in results would be smaller. Fed is good on grass, why? He likes green color? And Nadal on the other hand like red color?
And again, most important is Federer is picking sore grapes, diminishing someones results, its all about.
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
On the "sour grapes" scale, I don't rate it too high, perhaps, 2 or 3 out of 10.
From the article, (Federer)
"So it shows that it is more possible today. But the feat, still regardless of the conditions are easier, is still and would be an unbelievable one. Credit to him."

If Fed said that he (and Rafa, as well) didn't have the same opportunity that Novak did due to greater homogenization of surfaces, that would be sour grapes.
I think he was praising what Nole did - and is trying for again - but also saying (what many agree with) that this would have been tougher to achieve back in, for example, Borg's era. That point is slightly debatable, but I don't fault Fed for bringing it up...and we don't know what question he may have been responding to.

To me, 4 in a row is huge.
In the Open Era, only Laver and Novak have been able to pull it off.
On the one hand, I rate Laver's 1969 a little higher than Novak's 2015-16 because he did it all in one calendar year.
This is balanced out, in my mind, by the tour being much deeper in Djokovic's time.

One can debate how much of a factor surface variation is. I tend to minimize it, as we're really just debating amount of variation. In either case, you still have to defeat the entire field (barring injuries) in the four most important tourneys of the year. It's not like players arrive there, and thn they pick the playing surface randomly.
 
Enceladus

Enceladus

Legend
Tennis_Hands said:
Because of this guy at his peak on clay:

Rafael+Nadal+French+Open+Day+Three+Jx3v9AH7vJrl.jpg


... but I am sure that you already knew that, so why pretend that you don't understand what Federer is saying?

:cool:
Click to expand...
If wasn't Nadal, Nole would have two Djoker Slams and a chance to make the third Djoker Slam today.
In fact, Nole has more series Wimbledon-USO-AO than Roger.
 
P

Petike

Rookie
Lew II said:
Wins over top10s on clay:

2004-08 Federer 11
2011-15 Djokovic 23

Let's not act like Federer was an unstoppable force on clay for young Nadal.
Click to expand...
Get out of here with these stupid meaningless stats. What if Djoko would have only had let's say 5 opprotunities to beat top 10 players in this period? Would that mean he was worse? It is not like every players have the same amount of opportunities to meet top 10 players every single year.
You are freaking boring now.

Peak Federer got beaten only by Nadal in Rg. If we include Kuerten from 2004, this is 2 players. Djokovic between 2011 and 2016 got beaten by Federer, Nadal, Wawrinka, and if we include 2010 Melzer and 2009 Kolshi too, that is 5 different players. What does this tell you?
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
Some of the stats (to me) are misleading.
That said, I think most tennis fans would conclude that Novak has had - to this point - a better clay career than Fed has.
 
P

Petike

Rookie
uscwang said:
But how many time had each defeated Nadal on clay?
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter. It just shows that how important the match ups are. Djokovic handled Nadal better, but handled the rest of the field less effectively. And it is not like Djokovic put up a great fight and was a massive threat to Nadal at Rg, which obviously the most important clay tournament. Similarly to Federer he was not able to beat Nadal on PC. He had to wait till Nadal got into that massive slump in 2015.
 
uscwang

uscwang

Hall of Fame
MajesticTennisManiac said:
Top 10 players that defeated Federer on clay during 2004-08-

Nadal

Top 10 players that defeated Djokovic on clay during 2011-15-

Federer
Nadal
Tipsarević
Berdych
Wawrinka
Click to expand...

Federer vs. Nadal on clay 2004-2008
1-9 (0-4 at RG)

Novak vs. Nadal on clay 2011-2015
6-5 (1-3 at RG)
6 f#$%ing 5!
 
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