Can Tennis survive without Star power?

Does the sport need Star power?


  • Total voters
    51

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
Not just achievements that would qualify as ATG (5-6 slams, a few Masters) but real Star power - like selling out stadiums and pulling TV audiences.

In other words life after Big 3 and Serena.

I can see slams being split between many good players.

But will the sport be able to keep up its allure without players who aren't just dominating at the top but are popular off court too?
 

SinneGOAT

Hall of Fame
Just watch Miami, we are seeing what tennis will look like without big stars. Sure these next gen players will rise in popularity but to get big viewership and ads and therefore money tennis needs a big star. It flows around, from the tv ads to ticket sales. I remember hearing when a big seeded player loses early viewership drops off quickly.
 

Villain

Professional
I get your point but those were different times.

Too many sports entertainment options these days for young people. So this is about going forward, not looking back.
I agree with your last sentence, but there will always be stars. Someone will be there to fill the void.
 

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
I agree with your last sentence, but there will always be stars. Someone will be there to fill the void.

Lets hope so. The median age for current tennis audiences skews 50+

There needs to be a nextgen audience too for the sport to compete with niche offerings ranging from X games, MMA to gaming.
 

Villain

Professional
Just watch Miami, we are seeing what tennis will look like without big stars. Sure these next gen players will rise in popularity but to get big viewership and ads and therefore money tennis needs a big star. It flows around, from the tv ads to ticket sales. I remember hearing when a big seeded player loses early viewership drops off quickly.
Miami is different this year for many reasons though. There was no Indian Wells so a lot of Europeans decided not to travel to the U.S. for just one tournament. That’s especially true when considering the pandemic and the possible quarantine restrictions on the backside of the tournament in one’s home country. Also, the Big 3 aren’t retired yet, so a tournament without them is different because we know that they’re still out there and that they’re still the best for now. Once they’ve retired, that won’t be the case anymore and the best players will be the best players and we’ll know it.
 

Villain

Professional
Lets hope so. The median age for current tennis audiences skews 50+

There needs to be a nextgen audience too for the sport to compete with niche offerings ranging from X games, MMA to gaming.

Obi-Wan isn’t our only hope. There’s a Luke Skywalker out there somewhere.
 

offtheline

New User
Are you talking about within the USA or worldwide? Worldwide, tennis will be just fine. The current gen will start to get slams eventually, as will the next gen who are currently arriving and those that will arrive afterward. Tennis is hugely popular internationally. And tennis was just fine long before the big 3 got here. Tennis did not start in the early 00s...

But if one wants to raise concerns, they could make legitimate claims about its issues within the states. It will "survive." However, other sports have a stranglehold on major interest here that I don't see tennis breaking up, with or without stars (be they American or international stars).
 

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
Just watch Miami, we are seeing what tennis will look like without big stars. Sure these next gen players will rise in popularity but to get big viewership and ads and therefore money tennis needs a big star. It flows around, from the tv ads to ticket sales. I remember hearing when a big seeded player loses early viewership drops off quickly.

Its already a niche sport in some ways.

I can see room for a league format with teams thus moving away from the need for individual superstars.

Would also solve a lot of issues otherwise in the sport - guaranteed base salary contracts, predictable participation calendars, indoor multi-use venues etc
 

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
Are you talking about within the USA or worldwide? Worldwide, tennis will be just fine. The current gen will start to get slams eventually, as will the next gen who are currently arriving and those that will arrive afterward. Tennis is hugely popular internationally. And tennis was just fine long before the big 3 got here. Tennis did not start in the early 00s...

But if one wants to raise concerns, they could make legitimate claims about its issues within the states. It will "survive." However, other sports have a stranglehold on major interest here that I don't see tennis breaking up, with or without stars (be they American or international stars).

Worldwide viewership and popularity does not translate into $$, hate to say it.

The spending power of target audiences is firmly in industrialized nations.

That will affect the industry food chain
 

offtheline

New User
Worldwide viewership and popularity does not translate into $$, hate to say it.

The spending power of target audiences is firmly in industrialized nations.

That will affect the industry food chain
Don't disagree. Tennis thriving in the states (regardless of being due to American or international stars) is good for tennis globally for the cash input (and other reasons), as you mentioned. But I'd argue its continued success in Europe, Asia, South America, and other parts of the world will keep the sport alive and well. As an American it stinks to see the sport so far down the popularity list here, but that's reality at this point. Tennis doesn't live or die with the states.
 

SinneGOAT

Hall of Fame
Miami is different this year for many reasons though. There was no Indian Wells so a lot of Europeans decided not to travel to the U.S. for just one tournament. That’s especially true when considering the pandemic and the possible quarantine restrictions on the backside of the tournament in one’s home country. Also, the Big 3 aren’t retired yet, so a tournament without them is different because we know that they’re still out there and that they’re still the best for now. Once they’ve retired, that won’t be the case anymore and the best players will be the best players and we’ll know it.
Do you really think people like Medvedev or Zverev or Rublev will bring in the crowds like Federer or Nadal?
 

Gizo

Hall of Fame
When previous superstars retired on both the men's and women's side, there were already new or established superstars around on the respective tours that had built up large fanbases.

When McEnroe retired in 1992, men's tennis was in very strong shape with a lot of talented young players / players in their 20s including huge stars like Agassi and Becker etc. When Agassi himself retired in 2006, Federer was 25, Nadal was 20 and both were already huge superstars themselves. When Graf retired in 1999, Serena, Venus, Hingis and Kournikova were all very big stars, Seles was still around, competitive and hugely popular everywhere she went etc.

When the big 3 retire, will there be established and household stars (and it's just about their title counts as the OP points out, but their overall appeal beyond that - their X-factor to use a cliche), that can keep a lot of existing fans interested / potentially draw it new fans? I have to say that I'm very worried.

Yes individual sports are always going to be more star-driven than team sports, but it's clear to me that tennis has become even more star driven and dependent over time. The sport appears to be far more dependent on a handful of stars to attract interest nowadays than it was say 20 or 30 years ago, which has been a deeply concerning trend and means that its popularity and overall health appears to be more fragile. I'm also very worried about tennis increasingly becoming a sport that more and more people only care about for 8 weeks of a year (the slams) (or at most the slams plus a very small handful of other tournaments) with little to no interest in the regular tour.
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Newsflash, tennis had niche coverage prior to Agassi/Sampras era, also ran coverage during that era and borderline secondary coverage during Big 3 era.

To clarify, that means well below the main sports but it varies by country. In England, football, rugby, cricket are ahead but then tennis is in strong position. In USA tennis is maybe Top 10.

Post Big 3 which has already begun means it falls a few notches. In terms of tournament attendance, probably 30-50% reduction.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
I keep hearing around here that this guy has way more star power than Roger and Rafa put together. :unsure::censored:

64e20ff350b6b9e8e0a7.jpg
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
I keep hearing around here that this guy has way more star power than Roger and Rafa put together. :unsure::censored:

64e20ff350b6b9e8e0a7.jpg
Yep. Belittle a teenager for his appearance.

Good stuff, sir. Rare form. (y)

And by "rare" I mean "standard" for you. :)
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
Tennis is just a game. Sports competition is about people. For the most part, the tennis powers that be do not do a good job of promoting the players personalities outside of post-match interviews. Players are so rarely seen, or interviewed, or contribute much outside of the time that they are participating in tournaments.
It would be good for tennis to have players seen kissing babies, handing out food to the hungry, visiting kids in hospitals, or just participating in life outside of tennis. Tennis players rarely, if ever, get seen on sports news shows or most any other non tennis public-type event.
 

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
Same folks saying tennis will be fine are arguing right now in threads started by trolls like PETEspammer rehashing the same old Big 3 debates for pages on end....

:rolleyes:
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
A star will fill the void. We just don't know who they are right now.
 
Guys like Tommy Paul and Foe (both pretty relatable, entertaining to watch young guys) are imperative to the popularity of American tennis
Opelka is an interesting guy but has a boring game and I find Fritz and Nakashima pretty dull
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Take away their slams, and the Big Three combine to generate all the charisma of a medium quality houseplant.

Whoever is winning slams once they move on will do just fine.

The Big 3 brand is immense. I never saw anything like it prior.

McEnroe & Connors I can't speak to much, Becker was a wunderkind and had flair but inbetween. In any case all three were short term situations. Sampras and Agassi were the first to have staying power in the media. Agassi was way more marketable despite less Slams, but the Big 3 are like if Agassi won more and then multiply that three fold.

I really don't think any young guy can overcome the shadow of the Big 3 anytime soon. It won't just be about the Slams but with the bar set so high, I mean it would be at least 7-8 years to get that conversation going again. Look at how much Patrick Maholmes was getting hyped for the Super Bowl and it was all hype. Nobody was thinking he'd smell Brady's jock strap but the media was pushing the narrative. Then he lost. And that's the freaking NFL.

Nah man, the tennis fans will continue to enjoy the sport but much will be lost in the apocalypse of the Post-Big 3 era. Mad rebuild will be needed.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
The Big 3 brand is immense. I never saw anything like it prior.

McEnroe & Connors I can't speak to much, Becker was a wunderkind and had flair but inbetween. In any case all three were short term situations. Sampras and Agassi were the first to have staying power in the media. Agassi was way more marketable despite less Slams, but the Big 3 are like if Agassi won more and then multiply that three fold.

I really don't think any young guy can overcome the shadow of the Big 3 anytime soon. It won't just be about the Slams but with the bar set so high, I mean it would be at least 7-8 years to get that conversation going again. Look at how much Patrick Maholmes was getting hyped for the Super Bowl and it was all hype. Nobody was thinking he'd smell Brady's jock strap but the media was pushing the narrative. Then he lost. And that's the freaking NFL.

Nah man, the tennis fans will continue to enjoy the sport but much will be lost in the apocalypse of the Post-Big 3 era. Mad rebuild will be needed.
Laver should have stood out as much as the Big 3 will when they are gone, but now when you look back you only see his career from around age 30. If the open era had started 10 years earlier it would have taken longer for Connors, Borg and Co. to get their just due.
 

Sunny014

Legend
Tennis deserves to die based on how ATP promoted the big 3 in the last 5-6 years, they should have done enough to stop Nadal from winning more french opens, they should have presented greater challenge to novak. Roger would have adapted to all this because he anyway isn't the guy winning slams, if someone can beat Djokodal then certainly Federer would also be beaten.

ATP should have introduced new rules, changed courts, equipments and stuffs to suit younger players so that the game became more interesting. This time the Aus open was quite fast, a good change, this should have started at least 4-5 years ago at all 4 slams, youngsters should have been promoted to improve their grass game by giving them incentives to do..... Clay should have been sped up or some new variation of clay should have been introduced to it..... A 9 or 10 time champion like Rafa will adapt to it, if he cannot then he deserves to lose, if he wants to boycott the open then so be it, that would be his choice, either ways Tennis would have benefitted.... What is the use of having a 13 time french open champion who will aim for 15-16 when he is done??? What impact will that have on future generations of clay courters ?

Now the big 3 have become so big that when they fall the game will be finished.... nobody to take the game forward for at least 5-7 years after that, you will see 1-2 generation of 3-5 time champions after that, nobody will win 14-15 slams for at least the next 10 years, in that period Tennis would have gone down.
 
Last edited:

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Laver should have stood out as much as the Big 3 will when they are gone, but now when you look back you only see his career from around age 30. If the open era had started 10 years earlier it would have taken longer for Connors, Borg and Co. to get their just due.

True. Laver was also an Aussie so easier to market than a Borg or Becker. Could have been the Babe Ruth of the sport if he had two Calendar Slams in Open Era.


Tennis deserves to die based on how ATP promoted the big 3 in the last 5-6 years, they should have done enough to stop Nadal from winning more french opens, they should have presented greater challenge to novak. Roger would have adapted to all this because he anyway isn't the guy winning slams, if someone can beat Djokodal then certainly Federer would also be beaten.

ATP should have introduced new rules, changed courts, equipments and stuffs to suit younger players so that the game became more interesting. This time the Aus open was quite fast, a good change, this should have started at least 4-5 years ago at all 4 slams, youngsters should have been promoted to improve their grass game by giving them incentives to do..... Clay should have been sped up or some new variation of clay should have been introduced to it..... A 9 or 10 time champion like Rafa will adapt to it, if he cannot then he deserves to lose, if he wants to boycott the open then so be it, that would be his choice, either ways Tennis would have benefitted.... What is the use of having a 13 time french open champion who will aim for 15-16 when he is done??? What impact will that have on future generations of clay courters ?

Now the big 3 have become so big that when they fall the game will be finished.... nobody to take the game forward for at least 5-7 years after that, you will see 1-2 generation of 3-5 time champions after that, nobody will win 14-15 slams for at least the next 10 years, in that period Tennis would have gone down.

Not sure if you are repeating this yourself but whenever I read this I can't agree enough. The head size of racquets not being restricted like NHL did with goalie equipment. Some say Martin Brodeur got his ridiculous numbers because of his equipment and system but at least things were fixed moving forward somewhat.

Tennis did nothing. You went from serving matches on grass to baseline duels. But there's little question there was more variety in the 90s than today. And limiting racquet size would at least lower the margin of error. More upsets and of course 16 seed format.

No brainers actually.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Tennis did nothing. You went from serving matches on grass to baseline duels. But there's little question there was more variety in the 90s than today. And limiting racquet size would at least lower the margin of error. More upsets and of course 16 seed format.

No brainers actually.
Going back to 2007 and watching Joker in that year at his best tells me that tennis across the board was more interesting. He was volleying more, and in one match his overhead looked absolutely solid. I missed that era because I did not have Tennis Channel or digital TV. They let the genie of of the bottle, and now it's too late. I thought it was just Fed and a few others who looked so good back then, but now I see that young Joker was aggressive and exciting. I think the whole tour evolved into something very consistent but much more boring.
 
If Tsitsipas wins Wimbledon and an American like Korda could rise and challenge in slams, star power will return to the men's game after the Big 3 leave.
As for the women's, Osaka is already the heiress.
 
D

Deleted member 781040

Guest
Good question. Pete and Andre may have to come out of retirement for this one.

tennis-pete-sampras-andre-agassi.jpg
 

Jason Swerve

Hall of Fame
Good question. Pete and Andre may have to come out of retirement for this one.

tennis-pete-sampras-andre-agassi.jpg
Amazing. A genuine laser racket.

As for the women's, Osaka is already the heiress.
For the life of me, what star power does Osaka have? By these awkward, Generation Z standards, maybe she's something special. Usually people with her demeanor are the side acts for the real stars. Like Nadal to Federer. Petehammer to Agassi. Lendl to McEnroe. If Barty ends up being Osaka's side act, the WTA doesn't have any relevant star power.
 

lim

Professional
Haven’t ratings been going down every year despite the big 3 firmly in control? Thought that was the whole premise of UTS. Post big 3 doubt slams will even get espn coverage anymore
 

Jason Swerve

Hall of Fame
Haven’t ratings been going down every year despite the big 3 firmly in control? Thought that was the whole premise of UTS. Post big 3 doubt slams will even get espn coverage anymore
Only one of the three is interesting, and the media hates him.
 

Gizo

Hall of Fame
I do think it will be far more difficult for tennis to recover from the 'big 3' retiring, than losing previous big name players, 1) because they have been on top and winning majors for such an insane length of time, and such have also been associated and linked together for such a long time, 2) tennis is even more noticeably star-dependent nowadays than it was when those previous big-name players retired, 3) when previous big-name players retired there were already other very big and established new / existing stars on the tour - linked to point 1) with the members of the Next / Lost Gen unable to get the job done at majors.

I mean Agassi was of course well known for his longevity. In comparison, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all won their first majors at a younger age than him (his 1992 Wimbledon title was a couple of months after his 22nd birthday), and have all won their last / most recent majors at an older age than him (his 2003 Australian Open title was a few months before his 33rd birthday). Now Agassi unlike those players was already a very big star long before he won his first major or before he reached his first major final. However it's highly unlikely that a men's player can become a star without major title hardware nowadays unless he has an incredibly captivating back-story, and that's generally much less likely in men's tennis compared to women's tennis given that tennis has been the no. 1 sport for women for a long time while it's well down the pecking order for men.

Sampras was an excellent tennis player, but he of course was never a huge superstar that transcended tennis (US TV ratings declined pretty sharply and noticeably in the 90s compared to the 80s, and typically his ratings in his home country for major finals without Agassi on the other side of the net were underwhelming to say the least).

Obviously this is just based on perceptions rather than actual data or anything, but it does seem clear to me that far fewer people follow or show an interest in the ATP tour as a whole (and not just the bigger tournaments with the bigger name players in them) nowadays, compared to the 90s, 00s etc. Even pre-COVID weren't quite a few smaller tour level events struggling?
 
Last edited:
Top