I need whey protein. Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard or Muscle Milk?

ogruskie

ogruskie

Professional
I'm currently in my cutting phase, trying to burn away the fat and keep the muscle that I have. I'm finishing up my tub of ON Gold Standard Whey Protein and I need more since I'm running out.S o far I've been content with it. However, Muscle Milk caught my eye and I'm really interested in it. MM is slightly more expensive. If it's better, I'll invest. If it's just as good as ON, I'll stick with what I'm currently using.
 
Vyse

Vyse

Semi-Pro
I would just stick with Optimum, it is pretty cheap, good taste too. It is also pretty pure in the protein although I have not looked at what Muscle Milks label (isn't it more of a weight gainer).
 
OKUSA

OKUSA

Hall of Fame
just stay with 100% whey, i use ON Double Chocolate only because it doesn't taste like utter crap in milk and it dissolves somewhat good

muscle milk is just a waste of money, what you need is protein not sugar and whatever else they put in that overpriced garbage
 
Gmedlo

Gmedlo

Professional
Of the two, I would pick ON. However, for my next order, I am picking up a 25 pound bag from trueprotein.com for dirt cheap. I emailed them and asked for a sample which they promptly sent out and I liked it. Win.
 
Vyse

Vyse

Semi-Pro
Best thing to do is to make it into a pudding. It is thick and most of the flavors taste good so its win-win. Most people think I am weird when I tell them this but it is good.
 
S

scotus

G.O.A.T.
I used to buy ON all the time.

But I recently picked up a few tubs of Muscle Milk from Costco. A good deal and good taste, and these are isolates with lower cholesterol than I remember from ON.
 
E

El Guapo

Semi-Pro
You guys don't read much, do you? Muscle Milk isn't whey. It has some whey in it but it's mostly milk protein (casein).
 
OKUSA

OKUSA

Hall of Fame
i don't need to read about it because it's 350 calories for 32g of protein, when i can just get a 100% whey and get 24g for 120 calories
 
S

scotus

G.O.A.T.
El Guapo said:
You guys don't read much, do you? Muscle Milk isn't whey. It has some whey in it but it's mostly milk protein (casein).
Click to expand...

So what? Whey also comes from cow's milk.

Muscle Milk's claim is that their product is better because it contains both whey and casein proteins.
 
E

El Guapo

Semi-Pro
scotus said:
So what? Whey also comes from cow's milk.

Muscle Milk's claim is that their product is better because it contains both whey and casein proteins.
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You = clueless if you think that whey and casein are the same thing. Of course, OKUSA isn't much smarter thinking that 24g of 100% whey is 120 calories. LOL
 
ogruskie

ogruskie

Professional
Thanks for the responses, I bought the ON.

Also, should I mix the whey with nonfat milk? Is it better that way for any particular reason? I've always mixed the whey with water...
 
OKUSA

OKUSA

Hall of Fame
El Guapo said:
You = clueless if you think that whey and casein are the same thing. Of course, OKUSA isn't much smarter thinking that 24g of 100% whey is 120 calories. LOL
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i know it isn't, but that's the lowest you can find that wouldn't taste like crap, in fact i don't think any manufacturer sells completely 100% whey (i believe whey protein in and of itself isn't 100% protein, and contains some fat/carbs due to impurities). keep drinking your sugar milk, i don't care. and anyone that tells me they drink muscle milk is a sure reader of magazine rack fitness magazines with their knowledge of fitness/nutrition as deep as their quarter squats
 
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snoopy

snoopy

Professional
Jarrows unflavored whey is pretty good.

Even when you just mix it with water it doesn't taste too horrible. It doesn't taste good, just not too horrible.
 
OKUSA

OKUSA

Hall of Fame
i'm confused, it says muscle milk vs on nutrition gold standard and he says he wants to keep his muscle while cutting (losing fat)

one is 300 calories and 32g of protein while the other is 130 calories and 24g of protein

what would you choose if you were in his position? maybe you need to read the thread

also, the reason why i hate muscle milk is because it's overpriced and there are better and cheaper options available. the only reason for it's success is because it's every where in muscle mags, and the name itself 'muscle milk' will get people to buy it

better off just buying whole milk at the grocery store
 
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C

coyfish

Hall of Fame
ogruskie said:
Thanks for the responses, I bought the ON.

Also, should I mix the whey with nonfat milk? Is it better that way for any particular reason? I've always mixed the whey with water...
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I always use skim milk. Tastes / mixes better and is more protein / vitamins / etc. But if you are trying to shave calories there than just use water. Take a multivitamin.

Good choice to go with ON. Muscle milk isn't bad but its high in fat.
 
C

coyfish

Hall of Fame
El Guapo said:
You = clueless if you think that whey and casein are the same thing. Of course, OKUSA isn't much smarter thinking that 24g of 100% whey is 120 calories. LOL
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They only time you "need" whey protein is postworkout. Because it absorbs so quickly. During normal meals you don't really wan't protein that breaks down so fast. Muscle milk contains both so its more versatile. Drinking milk with your whey protein obviously also adds casein.
 
H

Hoffer

New User
I suggest that you stick with ON Gold Standard, and stay away from Muscle Milk. ON Nutrition is 24 grams protein at between 110-130 calories a serving (one scoop), depending on what flavor you get. Meanwhile Muscle Milk is 35 g protein and 300 calories, but that is a two scoop serving. Also muscle milk is a protein mixture where as ON Gold standard is whey only.

Reasons to not use Muscle Milk:
1) It’s a blend of protein and other substances that help body builders more then other athletes, 300 calories are a lot.
2) For athletes anymore then 30 grams of protein at a time for non-bodybuilders is usually overkill, if you really want to use muscle milk you could first try just using half a serving. (1 scoop)
3) One ingredient in Muscle Milk (glycocyamine) has been tied in with increasing homocysteine levels, which is a marker for cardiovascular disease.

Mixing in Water vs. Milk:
Post workout I would suggest immediately after your last lift drinking your whey with water and maybe having a banana as well. When mixing with water there is faster absorption into the body while milk causes slower absorption times. Mixing with milk at other times of the day for slower absorption is ideal in various situations.

Whey and Casein Protein:
Although not in the original post there seems to be some misconception on this through out the topic. Whey protein is ideal for pre, intra, and post workout. If you taking protein during any of these times, it’s the fastest absorbing protein possible, making it ideal for these times of exercise when your muscles need protein the most. Casein is a much slower digesting protein; this is because it takes the body much longer to break the proteins down vs whey. Casein is usually taken before bed to help with muscle recovery while you sleep, as it will work longer into the night. If interested in taking a Casein supplement I would suggest Optimum 100% Casein Protein. Just note that is a much denser powder and when you shake up pure Casein protein supplements it becomes more of a sludge/yogurt type consistency.
 
S

scotus

G.O.A.T.
OKUSA said:
i don't need to read about it because it's 350 calories for 32g of protein, when i can just get a 100% whey and get 24g for 120 calories
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There are different types of Muscle Milk products.

The one I take has the serving size of 1 scoop, 26 g of protein, 130 Calories, and 15 mg of cholesterol.
 
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geese_com

geese_com

Semi-Pro
Send me an email through my username and I can send you a link to a site where you can make your own mix of protein or just buy protein or different kinds in 1lb increments. Also, I have a discount code which can help you save 5%.
 
E

El Guapo

Semi-Pro
Hoffer said:
I suggest that you stick with ON Gold Standard, and stay away from Muscle Milk. ON Nutrition is 24 grams protein at between 110-130 calories a serving (one scoop), depending on what flavor you get. Meanwhile Muscle Milk is 35 g protein and 300 calories, but that is a two scoop serving. Also muscle milk is a protein mixture where as ON Gold standard is whey only.

Reasons to not use Muscle Milk:
1) It’s a blend of protein and other substances that help body builders more then other athletes, 300 calories are a lot.
2) For athletes anymore then 30 grams of protein at a time for non-bodybuilders is usually overkill, if you really want to use muscle milk you could first try just using half a serving. (1 scoop)
3) One ingredient in Muscle Milk (glycocyamine) has been tied in with increasing homocysteine levels, which is a marker for cardiovascular disease.

Mixing in Water vs. Milk:
Post workout I would suggest immediately after your last lift drinking your whey with water and maybe having a banana as well. When mixing with water there is faster absorption into the body while milk causes slower absorption times. Mixing with milk at other times of the day for slower absorption is ideal in various situations.

Whey and Casein Protein:
Although not in the original post there seems to be some misconception on this through out the topic. Whey protein is ideal for pre, intra, and post workout. If you taking protein during any of these times, it’s the fastest absorbing protein possible, making it ideal for these times of exercise when your muscles need protein the most. Casein is a much slower digesting protein; this is because it takes the body much longer to break the proteins down vs whey. Casein is usually taken before bed to help with muscle recovery while you sleep, as it will work longer into the night. If interested in taking a Casein supplement I would suggest Optimum 100% Casein Protein. Just note that is a much denser powder and when you shake up pure Casein protein supplements it becomes more of a sludge/yogurt type consistency.
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Decent information except for #3. 100% wrong. MM hasn't used glycocyamine for years. I still wouldn't recommend MM for most people unless using it before bed because it's slower digesting (high MCTs and casein).
 
H

Hoffer

New User
El Guapo said:
Decent information except for #3. 100% wrong. MM hasn't used glycocyamine for years. I still wouldn't recommend MM for most people unless using it before bed because it's slower digesting (high MCTs and casein).
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Thank you for correcting me. I have not used Muscle Milk in a long time and forgot about the formula change. I also know some athletes that prefer Muscle Milk as a before bed Supplement over a pure Casein. I know others have also used Muscle Milk as a meal replacement.
 
10ACE

10ACE

Professional
Isopure by Natures best (Out of all I have found this to be the best)

or

complete whey by cytomax
 
Gmedlo

Gmedlo

Professional
IIRC, Muscle Milk is still banned by the NCAA, although the quantities of the banned substance within are insignificant.

Just so there is no confusion, the protein within muscle milk is a mixture of casein, milk protein (Milk protein is not a category of protein types [whey, casein, etc] rather it is just a mixture of casein and whey proteins.) Whey, and a few other forms of whey. There is no statement that there is more Casein in the product than whey, and that cannot be gathered from the product label (Casein is the first listed protein but there are more protein mixtures/types following that are likely to provide more whey than casein.)

IMO, the combination of protein types hinders the purpose of the product(s). Why combine both whey and casein, slowing the digestion of the whey, when you want a quickly absorbing protein? If you want casein, why not just buy a cheaper pure casein product?
 
Talker

Talker

Hall of Fame
There has been some suggestion that somewhere around 40 grams of whey protein is the maximum the body can use.
The body becomes saturated at this dosage as I understand it.

In the case of casein protein, it is released much more slowly than whey so the body doesn't become saturated with the 40 gram limit. You can theoretically take more without waste. I'm just guessing here as there are so many conflicting studies I've seen.

Personally I take about 30 grams whey with 5 grams l-glutamine after workouts, sometimes mixed with gatorade.
Now and then if I really pushed myself I use ON casein and l-glutamine before bed.

Still not sure if it helps at all.
 
ogruskie

ogruskie

Professional
I believe one scoop of ON contains 24g of protein. I always put in two scoops, so 48 grams, of whey into my shake. Is that alright?
 
Vyse

Vyse

Semi-Pro
is this after workouts? That really just seems like a lot. I would probably stick with one. If it was a meal replacement, than maybe that much would be fine to get some calories in.
 
S

spacediver

Hall of Fame
Spend some time looking at different brands, and take note of how much protein you get, relative to total serving size. So if a product has 25 grams of protein per 40 gram scoop, then you're getting 15 grams of filler (assuming you're getting a protein powder and not a weight gainer).

Take price into consideration, and you're good to go.
 
sandflea

sandflea

Rookie
I've used both Optimum Whey and Muscle Milk, try VPX zero carb. Easier on the stomach, better taste, zero carbs, zero cholesterol.
 
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Vyse

Vyse

Semi-Pro
I think you should go to around a 3:1 or 2:1 carbs-protein ratio. Usually 40-60 grams carbs and 20-30 grams protein. 2 scoops seems like a lot. Alot of this varies though on situations
 
ogruskie

ogruskie

Professional
Gotcha. So would taking too much protein (2 scoops) cause me to gain fat or unnecessary weight?

Also, how long should I wait to after my workout? This includes both cardio and weight training. For cardio, I usually rest for half an hour then half a meal. Same thing for weights. I'd finish a workout, have a protein shake, wait half an hour, then eat. Is that alright?
 
Vyse

Vyse

Semi-Pro
That really just depends if you are eating too many calories. I don't know what all else your eating during the course of the day. I just think that some of that protein wouldn't really be used by the body and you would be basically wasting some of it. Yah, drink your shake immediately after your workouts. Maybe wait an hour after your shake to have a meal unless you feel hungry after a half hour, then I'd say your alright. Let all that quick digesting stuff get digested.
 
H

Hoffer

New User
I would take just one scoop, the suggested serving size. Take it immediately after you are done with your workout with the day. If you want I always also eat a banana.

spacediver said:
Spend some time looking at different brands, and take note of how much protein you get, relative to total serving size. So if a product has 25 grams of protein per 40 gram scoop, then you're getting 15 grams of filler (assuming you're getting a protein powder and not a weight gainer).

Take price into consideration, and you're good to go.
Click to expand...

You have to factor in the BCAAs, Glutamine, and other things such as various vitamins that are also in many protein powders.
 
Fedace

Fedace

Banned
ogruskie said:
I'm currently in my cutting phase, trying to burn away the fat and keep the muscle that I have. I'm finishing up my tub of ON Gold Standard Whey Protein and I need more since I'm running out.S o far I've been content with it. However, Muscle Milk caught my eye and I'm really interested in it. MM is slightly more expensive. If it's better, I'll invest. If it's just as good as ON, I'll stick with what I'm currently using.
Click to expand...

Is muscle milk a good Pre-match drink ??
 
Jonny S&V

Jonny S&V

Hall of Fame
Sort've off-topic, but after reading through this thread, I was wondering if worrying about the amount of protein one eats before/during/after a workout like somebody worrying if their racquet strings are 5 lbs below tension? I'm obviously not a nutrition-buff (I eat basically whatever is in front of me and then work off whatever is "bad" for me), but it seems like, unless you are an aspiring pro / higher-level player (5.0+), that worrying about nutrition to this point is rather pointless and probably won't help/hurt you much. Is this a fair assumption or am I completely off?
 
S

spacediver

Hall of Fame
Hoffer said:
You have to factor in the BCAAs, Glutamine, and other things such as various vitamins that are also in many protein powders.
Click to expand...

I was assuming the OP was just talking about whey, in which case the amino acid profile should be the same from product to product.
 
Vyse

Vyse

Semi-Pro
Jonny S&V said:
Sort've off-topic, but after reading through this thread, I was wondering if worrying about the amount of protein one eats before/during/after a workout like somebody worrying if their racquet strings are 5 lbs below tension? I'm obviously not a nutrition-buff (I eat basically whatever is in front of me and then work off whatever is "bad" for me), but it seems like, unless you are an aspiring pro / higher-level player (5.0+), that worrying about nutrition to this point is rather pointless and probably won't help/hurt you much. Is this a fair assumption or am I completely off?
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It is a way to make sure your at your best at all times. Most people don't do well with a giant meal before working out or tennis so yes, it does make a difference. Diet is everything
 
C

coyfish

Hall of Fame
The assumption is off but not entirely. People are paying way too much attention to little things and missing out on the big picture. If you workout hard and eat right . . . you will get results. Doesn't matter what protein brand you take or if you drink 20g instead of 30g.

I have done a bodybuilding competition. I was 175lbs 5%BF 5'10". The only protein shakes I drank were post workout shakes. 30 grams of whey protein + skim milk. I am also a hardgainer so I probably have to ingest more than the average person.

Anyway that being said everyone is different and the amount of protein you "need" depends on your metabolism / size / etc. For example ronnie coleman can most likely absorb more protein in one sitting than roger federer after a workout. So drinking 60g protein shakes makes more sense for him.

In general as long as you get ~20g whey protein isolate after your workout you are fine. No need to really drink it before but it wouldn't hurt. 1hour-30min Before workouts you need some fruit / fast/med absorbing carbs like bread or oats.
 
Jonny S&V

Jonny S&V

Hall of Fame
Vyse said:
Diet is everything
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If you don't have the strokes/footwork, diet doesn't matter. Therefore, diet ISN'T everything. You should know that. ;-)

coyfish said:
The assumption is off but not entirely. People are paying way too much attention to little things and missing out on the big picture. If you workout hard and eat right . . . you will get results. Doesn't matter what protein brand you take or if you drink 20g instead of 30g.

I have done a bodybuilding competition. I was 175lbs 5%BF 5'10". The only protein shakes I drank were post workout shakes. 30 grams of whey protein + skim milk. I am also a hardgainer so I probably have to ingest more than the average person.

Anyway that being said everyone is different and the amount of protein you "need" depends on your metabolism / size / etc. For example ronnie coleman can most likely absorb more protein in one sitting than roger federer after a workout. So drinking 60g protein shakes makes more sense for him.

In general as long as you get ~20g whey protein isolate after your workout you are fine. No need to really drink it before but it wouldn't hurt. 1hour-30min Before workouts you need some fruit / fast/med absorbing carbs like bread or oats.
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Some good stuff here, but I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be... Being around (semi) high level tennis, I've never heard anyone talk about their nutrition. Period. It just doesn't matter to them. I feel like I get enough protein with what I eat throughout the day, do I don't ingest any extra protein. The only thing that I make sure to have in my diet is fruits/veggies and a chocolate milk post practice/workout. I just feel like extra protein at lower levels (not necessarily like 2.5-3.0, but anyone that is not a professional/division I tennis player) is just pointless (to a point) and a waste of money (or did I make the same statement. Idk, I don't feel I got an answer when I asked it the first time for some reason...). I just feel like, by not worrying about my diet, that I play better (less to worry about).
 
Kevin T

Kevin T

Hall of Fame
coyfish said:
The assumption is off but not entirely. People are paying way too much attention to little things and missing out on the big picture. If you workout hard and eat right . . . you will get results. Doesn't matter what protein brand you take or if you drink 20g instead of 30g.

I have done a bodybuilding competition. I was 175lbs 5%BF 5'10". The only protein shakes I drank were post workout shakes. 30 grams of whey protein + skim milk. I am also a hardgainer so I probably have to ingest more than the average person.

Anyway that being said everyone is different and the amount of protein you "need" depends on your metabolism / size / etc. For example ronnie coleman can most likely absorb more protein in one sitting than roger federer after a workout. So drinking 60g protein shakes makes more sense for him.

In general as long as you get ~20g whey protein isolate after your workout you are fine. No need to really drink it before but it wouldn't hurt. 1hour-30min Before workouts you need some fruit / fast/med absorbing carbs like bread or oats.
Click to expand...

Spot-on. As a grad student, I was the team dietitian/sports nutritionist for an SEC school. I also played football in the ACC. These guys might drink one protein shake/day and that's a big 'might'. Look at the size of guys our prisons produce...they get crap food and no supplements. The high end of recommended protein intake by the American College of Sports Medicine and Board-Certified Sports Dietitians/Nutritionists is 1.7g/kg but even 1.3g/kg is fine for all but elite athletes. So, for a 6'3", 220# guy like me, that's max 130-170g of protein per day. The high end protein recommendation for burn victims is 2g/kg and their metabolic needs are incredibly high compared to you average weight lifter or even elite athlete. People over-think this issue. Why eat synthetic/man-made foods when the natural stuff is sooo much cheaper/better for you/tastier?

Bfast=oatmeal and 3 eggs (use 1 yolk) ~25-30g protein

am snack=handful of almonds+fruit =~5-7g protein

lunch=large salad with 4oz chicken breast ~30g

afternoon snack=yogurt and fruit ~8g

post-workout=chocolate milk or yogurt smoothie=~16-20g

dinner=5-6oz salmon+veggies, quinoa >50g protein

This is a pretty typical day for me and easily >130g protein. And I don't even lift heavy weights anymore, just pull-ups, dips, hindu push-ups, trail running, tennis, squash, bicycling.
 
Vyse

Vyse

Semi-Pro
The OP was morely talking about working out, we got off track a bit. He was trying to cut weight. Diet is the most important thing. Many people will workout hours a day and eat whatever they want and not lose weight. They don't know what to eat. This is what I am trying to say.

And if he is eating 40 g and he isn't even using it, he is wasting at least some of his money. I am very cheap and I try to maximize everything. But yes, everything is situational.

Jon: I still think you should test out eating different and better things to see how you feel.
 
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