Best slice backhand ever?

galain

galain

Hall of Fame
Add me in for Rosewall.

A few years back I watched him playing in a legends match at the Oz Open, then went back out to watch some main draw matches - and his slice backhand was the best I saw that day by far.
 
Tshooter

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
"Evonne Goolagong, Ramesh Krishnan"

Yes, both had beautiful slice/flat backhands. Krishnan's entire game was very smooth.
 
B

BTURNER

Legend
Jack Romeo said:
two handed slices are just weird to watch. i saw wozniacki hit these shots in some of her matches. evert, austin and seles have two-handed backhand drop shots which were seen more commonly than their two-handed slices. evert and austin rarely sliced because their flat or topspin backhands were their real weapons. it's like graf slicing a forehand - she hardly ever did it because, obviously, the flat forehand was her signature shot. seles' two-handed bh slice is also seldom used. sometimes, she hit it to junk up the pace, but that was obviously not her basic game. also, she usually hit one-handed slices off the backhand when she was stretched out.

i actually thought that anna kournikova had a good two-handed slice backhand. she also seldom used it, but when she was playing smartly (which was very seldom, to say the least), she used this shot effectively to change the pace, create sharp angles and set up her powerful flat drives or approach shots.
Click to expand...

Evert's slice is the one shot that she improved tremendously in the later 80's adding far more pace and spin, and used with greater frequency on grass courts, almost always using it to approach on her backhand wing at Wimbledon. Otherwise, she used it to mix things up occasionally from the backcourt to induce error.

Connors' two handed slice was undoubtedly the best I saw of either gender. he used his more often than others with a similar stroke often returning slice with slice, but then he had more variety on that wing than any other DHB I ever saw.

Its hard to figure out where to put Santoro in this list. He did not put the kind of pace on it Connors did, loved to use it. Then again, Santoro isn't the 'listable' type, is he?

i wonder if being tall, is a bit of a disadvantage on this particular stroke?
 
ae695

ae695

Rookie
Slicers

Emilio Sanchez Vicario and Steffi Graf.

Edberg's sliced approach was also a fantastic pleasure to watch
 
borg number one

borg number one

Legend
Noah had a great slice backhand, but I think Rod Laver may be tops in that department (attcking backhand slice). Here is some video of great one handed bankhand slice shots in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8IJ0F01IiU (Thanks to Krosero for the video. Laver is about 32 and Rosewall is 36 here by the way, but you can see them both using slice shots off both wings with great effect).
 
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pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
borg number one said:
Noah had a great slice backhand, but I think I Rod Laver may be tops in that department (attcking backhand slice). Here is some video of great one handed bankhand slice shots in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8IJ0F01IiU (Thanks to Krosero for the video. Laver is about 32 and Rosewall is 36 here by the way but you can see them both using the slice shots of both wings at times with great effect).
Click to expand...

Both had super slice backhands. Another player with a great slice backhand is Arthur Ashe. Laver and Ashe had more shots off the backhand side than anyone I've ever seen.

Here's Ashe in his famous match against Connors at the 1975 Wimbledon. Notice how he can lob and use variety of angles and slice off the backhand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMF1eP_yB2Y&feature=related
The second one is the famous Ashe against Laver match. Notice how much firepower both players have off the backhand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43csIDKmkMk
 
borg number one

borg number one

Legend
pc1 said:
Both had super slice backhands. Another player with a great slice backhand is Arthur Ashe. Laver and Ashe had more shots off the backhand side than anyone I've ever seen.

Here's Ashe in his famous match against Connors at the 1975 Wimbledon. Notice how he can lob and use variety of angles and slice off the backhand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMF1eP_yB2Y&feature=related
The second one is the famous Ashe against Laver match. Notice how much firepower both players have off the backhand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43csIDKmkMk
Click to expand...

Good point PC1. That's a good example match. Ashe did have a massive one handed backhand that he could hit in a variety of ways. I think you've watched a lot more of Ashe than I have as well as Laver but from what I've seen of both I completely agree with you.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
SoCal10s said:
Ken Rosewall , Evonne Goolagong ,Jimmy Connors.,Ramesh Krishnan
Click to expand...

Good point on Goolagong.She had a wonderful sliced BH that she graciously followed to the net many times.And she always looked like floating on court.She and Maria Esther Bueno are probably the modern version of Lenglen.
 
D

Datacipher

Banned
pc1 said:
Both had super slice backhands. Another player with a great slice backhand is Arthur Ashe. Laver and Ashe had more shots off the backhand side than anyone I've ever seen.
k[/url]
Click to expand...

Sorry Borg and PC, but Noah's at the bottom of any list I'd make. Noah did undercut an approach pretty well...but...I didn't think it particularly well...in fact, sometimes I thought he rushed more on a bluff than anything...it worked partly because here's a 6'4, black (was becker right? was race an issue in matches...not sure), SUPREMELY athletic guy rushing in, he moves with the grace and agility of the most athletic 6 footer, he leaps, he dives...that helps cover up...a pretty poor approach...unless it's Lendl over there, in which case, he isn't intimidated at all because he knows he owns Noah...

Like many of Noah's shots though, he overproduced the spin...(actually Graf, Fed and others probably do this too...but it works for them)....so that can be OK on a good approach on a short ball...but isn't too great in many other situations.....a passing shot, a return etc. where the ability to hit more solidly through would help.

It was said that Dennis Ralston once tried to coach Noah to hit through the ball...more like a Rosewall...and that when Noah first started to do it....his eyes lit up like a little kid! He never knew a slice could be like that. (of course...almost all the players today would be like that!)

Note, Sampras also, as he evolved, especially on shots like the chip return, tried to make his slice firmer, and more solid, he specifically mentioned Rosewall as a model.
 
hoodjem

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
Rabbit said:
Rosewallapalooza!

Ken Rosewall without a doubt had the deadliest, bestest, sliced backhand of all time. While other players, like Laver, had other options, Muscles lived and died by his (with living being the usual result). His backhand, we can just call it his backhand because he didn't vary it much, was so on and so accurate that he didn't need a ton of pace. But, he could hit it with as much pace as he needed to get it past a guy at net or put him in trouble.

I also think Evonne Goolagong was an outstanding selection on the women's side. Her slice, she was in possession of a topspinner too, was elegant and never appeared rushed. Graf's, by contrast, was always so close in to her body and taken late that it had no aesthetic value. Mind you it was a great shot, but nowhere near as beautiful to behold as Goolagong's.
Click to expand...
Gotta support the Rosewall bandwagon here!

I would say that Muscles' BH slice (skidder) was his go-to main weapon (like Roddick's serve or Fed's forehand).
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Noah had a good baseline foundation, as happens to players raised on european red clay.He was athletic and could be dominant with a good approach and a good volley.

Most of people, however forget that he portayed himself as an european clay court expert that, due to his athletics talents, could reach the net and vollye.

But, IMO, he was not lie Adriano Panatta a classy S&V raised on clay Noah was a baseliner that, due to his physichal talents, could play an agressive style.

to me, it makes a lot of basic concept difference¡
 
C

coolhandluke

Rookie
Rabbit said:
Rosewallapalooza!

Ken Rosewall without a doubt had the deadliest, bestest, sliced backhand of all time. While other players, like Laver, had other options, Muscles lived and died by his (with living being the usual result). His backhand, we can just call it his backhand because he didn't vary it much, was so on and so accurate that he didn't need a ton of pace. But, he could hit it with as much pace as he needed to get it past a guy at net or put him in trouble.

I also think Evonne Goolagong was an outstanding selection on the women's side. Her slice, she was in possession of a topspinner too, was elegant and never appeared rushed. Graf's, by contrast, was always so close in to her body and taken late that it had no aesthetic value. Mind you it was a great shot, but nowhere near as beautiful to behold as Goolagong's.
Click to expand...

100% correct
 
C

Chris Evert Fan

New User
Definitely Steffi Graf. She had so much versatility with her slice backhand. She could slice it up the line, cross court, to the baseline, drop it just over the net, and everything else. She did not just use the slice defensively but also offensively. It would force players to have to bend low and hit up, which gave Graf an advantage. I believe it was largely Graf's slice backhand that proved to be an annoyance for Chrissie.
 
B

BTURNER

Legend
Chris Evert Fan said:
Definitely Steffi Graf. She had so much versatility with her slice backhand. She could slice it up the line, cross court, to the baseline, drop it just over the net, and everything else. She did not just use the slice defensively but also offensively. It would force players to have to bend low and hit up, which gave Graf an advantage. I believe it was largely Graf's slice backhand that proved to be an annoyance for Chrissie.
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I think it was more of a hindrance vs Evert from the backcourt than Martina's, because her extra height gave extra purchase on the stroke for more pace without loosing consistency. but Martina's use of the slice as an approach was frightening. Honestly Martina's slice approach was better than her forehand approach which was more error prone - but if the forehand went in, you were lucky to get there in time for any prayer of a pass.
 
C

Chris Evert Fan

New User
BTURNER said:
I think it was more of a hindrance vs Evert from the backcourt than Martina's, because her extra height gave extra purchase on the stroke for more pace without loosing consistency. but Martina's use of the slice as an approach was frightening. Honestly Martina's slice approach was better than her forehand approach which was more error prone - but if the forehand went in, you were lucky to get there in time for any prayer of a pass.
Click to expand...

I would definitely agree that Navratilova's slice approach was daunting and very well executed. I think her beautiful serve and volley game perfectly complemented Evert's baseline and all-court game, and these two brought out the best in each other. Thanks for that insight.
 
B

BTURNER

Legend
Chris Evert Fan said:
I would definitely agree that Navratilova's slice approach was daunting and very well executed. I think her beautiful serve and volley game perfectly complemented Evert's baseline and all-court game, and these two brought out the best in each other. Thanks for that insight.
Click to expand...

Folks here have completely forgotten how good the Navratilova slice approach was. She hit it as well as Evonne or Billie Jean, but with a hell of a lot more pace.
 
M

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
Sorry Borg and PC, but Noah's at the bottom of any list I'd make
Click to expand...

imo, the 1983 FO Final was one the best displays of slice bh's I've seen(I rewatched it recently), Noah didn't S&V that much that day but still was able to get to net so much(& win a good %) because of his bh slice, it had great depth.
 
S

slice bh compliment

G.O.A.T.
Wicked4hand said:
Stevan edberg pretty good
Click to expand...

Hhahanice, I used to have an old teammate who'd change up everyone's first name, especially Euro-sounding names.

Mickey Stich not bad.
Ralph Nadal kind of nice.
Ian Lendl decent.
Andrew Agassi not so good.
Peter Sampras fairly sweet.
Mikhail Chang allright.
Charlie Moya quite good.
Gustav Kuerten pretty good.
Matt Wilander not so bad.
Edvard Dibbs fair.
Rico Krajicek passable.
Malcatraz Washington pretty nice.
Gordon Ivanisevic also good.
Joe Louis Clerc had a good one.
Willie Vilas pretty good.
Willie Coria not bad.
Al Costa pretty sweet.
Art Ashe good.
Billy Nastase.
Rick Stockton.
Juan McEnroe.
Jamie Connors.
Jimmy Oncins.
Patrizio Cash,
Padraig Rafter.
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Moose Malloy said:
imo, the 1983 FO Final was one the best displays of slice bh's I've seen(I rewatched it recently), Noah didn't S&V that much that day but still was able to get to net so much(& win a good %) because of his bh slice, it had great depth.
Click to expand...

That's what I was mainly thinking of when I thought of Noah. I don't think his overall backhand was particularly good but I have seen him hit penetrating sliced backhand approaches which set up his volleys quite well.
 
hoodjem

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
slice bh compliment said:
Hhahanice, I used to have an old teammate who'd change up everyone's first name, especially Euro-sounding names.

Mickey Stich not bad.
Ralph Nadal kind of nice.
Ian Lendl decent.
Andrew Agassi not so good.
Peter Sampras fairly sweet.
Mikhail Chang allright.
Charlie Moya quite good.
Gustav Kuerten pretty good.
Matt Wilander not so bad.
Edvard Dibbs fair.
Rico Krajicek passable.
Malcatraz Washington pretty nice.
Gordon Ivanisevic also good.
Joe Louis Clerc had a good one.
Willie Vilas pretty good.
Willie Coria not bad.
Al Costa pretty sweet.
Art Ashe good.
Billy Nastase.
Rick Stockton.
Juan McEnroe.
Jamie Connors.
Jimmy Oncins.
Patrizio Cash,
Padraig Rafter.
Click to expand...
Kenovic Rosewall--the sensei-master
 
N23

N23

Semi-Pro
For me it was Graf. Thing I remember is that she would occasionally come on top of it and commentators would say that if she would ever mix up her backhand that she would be unbelievable.
 
C

coolhandluke

Rookie
kiki said:
Noah had a good baseline foundation, as happens to players raised on european red clay.He was athletic and could be dominant with a good approach and a good volley.

Most of people, however forget that he portayed himself as an european clay court expert that, due to his athletics talents, could reach the net and vollye.

But, IMO, he was not lie Adriano Panatta a classy S&V raised on clay Noah was a baseliner that, due to his physichal talents, could play an agressive style.

to me, it makes a lot of basic concept difference¡
Click to expand...

Nice, i forgot about Panatta. That was a sweet backhand!!!!!!!!!
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Panatta was deceivingly quick.looked like he was almost falling sleep trading deep, well sliced groundies ( which keep opponents well back)...and suddenly, with two big steps, got to the net, catching his opponent by surprise.I´ve seen him do that to many great players, specially on clay where he could so well slide into the net..sometimes, it was even like playing cat &mousse.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
borg number one said:
One handed backhand slice:

1. Ken Rosewall
2. Rod Laver

Rosewall had the best slice shot ever.

Two handed backhand slice:

1. Jimmy Connors
2. Bjorn Borg (although Borg did also hit a lot of one handed backhand slice shots as well).

I think Connors had a very nice looking two handed slice. I liked Borg's one hander more, but his two handed shot could be very effective. See their shots on display at the 1981 W SF, from 2-2 in the 5th set:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND6BqlTwZbU
Click to expand...

You got it.I agree on the basics, but I´d make a soft switch to:

FLAT BACKHAND: Connors and Budge.Rosewall´s almost flat slice would make the third , but I´m not really sure about the final order in that segment.

TOP SPIN ONE: Borg,Laver and Agassi/Vilas

SLICE:Rosewall and Laver/Edberg tied for second place.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
WOMEN.

FLAT: Evert ,Seles ( semiflat, semi top) and Austin
SLICE: Evonne ,Steffi and Martina
SPIN: Seles, when she did it with top spin,Jaeger and Sabatini
 
Ludwig von Mises

Ludwig von Mises

Banned
rosewall
edberg
fed
mac
dolgopolov
sampras
becker
murray
lendl

never have actually seen budge play but i guess so.
what about pancho- his seemed pretty sweet?
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Arthur Ashe could hit sliced backhands well also. His flat backhand could be hit with tremendous power also.
 
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li0scc0

li0scc0

Hall of Fame
N23 said:
For me it was Graf. Thing I remember is that she would occasionally come on top of it and commentators would say that if she would ever mix up her backhand that she would be unbelievable.
Click to expand...

As arguably the greatest woman player ever, she WAS unbelievable.
Her backhand did not HURT her, it kept her in rallies until she could unleash the forehand. Plus, the backhand often forced errors from other players, the low skidding backhand elicits many UE's from the opponent.
 
TCTEN

TCTEN

Rookie
Men: Becker
Women: Graf

They must have loved teaching this shot to the German juniors back in the day because these two could hit it with more bite than anybody I've ever seen.
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
TCTEN said:
Men: Becker
Women: Graf

They must have loved teaching this shot to the German juniors back in the day because these two could hit it with more bite than anybody I've ever seen.
Click to expand...

Then perhaps you should condition your response to: "among those I've ever seen."
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
gavna said:
Rosewall by far had the best, Laver right after. The thing is all the great Aussies from that period had solid slices. Hopman laid the foundation that you even saw in Gerulaitis (very solid slice BH), McEnroe, Fleming and Rafter. Remember JMac, Vitas and that group at Port Washington in the 70s all got to work under Hopman.
Click to expand...

Rosewall had the best slice backhand ever and when I say slice I mean it had some slice but it was a mainly flat backhand. Very strong, very penetrating and I think it is the best I've seen.
 
B

Benhur

Hall of Fame
Moose Malloy said:
imo, the 1983 FO Final was one the best displays of slice bh's I've seen(I rewatched it recently), Noah didn't S&V that much that day but still was able to get to net so much(& win a good %) because of his bh slice, it had great depth.
Click to expand...

Was Wilander using slice BHs back then, or do you mean only Noah? I watched that final but I can't remember how Wilander was playing - Noah sort of stole the show.

I know that Wilander was using a lot of slice around 1987-88, but my impression has always been this was a shot he developed around that time, and that he used mostly his regular two handed drive in the early years.
 
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