for your viewing pleasure

Hewex

Semi-Pro
Can I try again to end this argument over Don's NTRP rating? Here is my record:

http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/...00FD81FEE0A322B5847B4A4918BF6E3D3C&CYear=2011

4.0: 5-1. Only loss to a guy who's been one of the top 4.0s for years and has been the #1 rated 4.0 in Middle States multiple times over the last 10 or so years.

4.5: 0-1, but a competitive match where I had 6 set points in the first set (then had a minor let down in the 2nd...).

My previous years' records are similar. I have an undisputable proven public record. I am a solid 4.0 player. It is not a question. Don beat me every time we've played. The last time we played a competitive set, he won 6-1. Whether you idiots who think you can judge from a camera video laying on the ground want to believe it or not, Don is (at least) a 4.5 level player. Period. Don says 5.0, but I'm not in a position to judge 4.5 vs 5.0 because I'm not good enough.

No offense, but Dozu(Don) has judged many people based on video alone. I'm not sure why he would be exempt from others doing the same. And I'm not singling him out....many, many people do this all the time on here. I know I have, even though I've never posted a comment about someone's rating. There are probably hundreds of threads where people post some version of "guess the NTRP". So, I guess Dozu and the rest of us are all idiots.

That being said, it is nice to hear from someone Dozu has played....You aren't one of his 'old dogs' by chance? lol.
 

dozu

Banned
so against a competitive 5.0 he would not do too well. but then again maybe he would. I like dozu's slice backhand even though it looks strange.

where have you been Manhattan bossman? you don't show up anymore.

I agree that a 'competitive 5.0' is prolly the upper limit of what I can handle... I go 50/50 against a couple of senior 2 stars... and their pace is right about the upper limit of my tolerance... a 3 star (solid 5.0) would likely blow me off the court.

The BH slice is modeled after Fed, but the grip is more towards EFH side, hence the contact is more delayed, and follow thru is more down the target line...... Fed is right about standard Conti.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
That being said, it is nice to hear from someone Dozu has played....You aren't one of his 'old dogs' by chance? lol.

No, but I know those guys, too (all great guys, including Don...). I've played the "lefty chopper" several times. He has historically been one of the better local rec players in the area, but others have caught up a little in the last few years. He has never played NTRP tennis, but I'd guess he was historically around a solid 4.5 (maybe even 5.0 if you go back far enough - he played D1 once upon a time...), now probably closer to 4.0/4.5. Still a tough player to get the better of, though.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
where have you been Manhattan bossman? you don't show up anymore.

I agree that a 'competitive 5.0' is prolly the upper limit of what I can handle... I go 50/50 against a couple of senior 2 stars... and their pace is right about the upper limit of my tolerance... a 3 star (solid 5.0) would likely blow me off the court.

The BH slice is modeled after Fed, but the grip is more towards EFH side, hence the contact is more delayed, and follow thru is more down the target line...... Fed is right about standard Conti.

2 and 3 star HS seniors, eh? Sounds perfect. Are they interested in playing league tennis?
 

dozu

Banned
2 and 3 star HS seniors, eh? Sounds perfect. Are they interested in playing league tennis?

hm, sounds like the captain is desperate :)

1 of the 2 stars moved out of area.... the other is still here, haven't seen him since the indoor season, will have to see what he is up to.... actually I need to find out which college he's gonna play for.
 

arche3

Banned
Trying to take it easy on the tennis. I only show up to play matches now. No practice. Once a week.

Work has been crazy.

Got run ragged by a 21 year old college player Saturday. I had to give up before we finished 2nd set. He won first one also. I think I got heat stroke. He was still pretty fresh... Lol.

where have you been Manhattan bossman? you don't show up anymore.

I agree that a 'competitive 5.0' is prolly the upper limit of what I can handle... I go 50/50 against a couple of senior 2 stars... and their pace is right about the upper limit of my tolerance... a 3 star (solid 5.0) would likely blow me off the court.

The BH slice is modeled after Fed, but the grip is more towards EFH side, hence the contact is more delayed, and follow thru is more down the target line...... Fed is right about standard Conti.
 

dozu

Banned
Trying to take it easy on the tennis. I only show up to play matches now. No practice. Once a week.

Work has been crazy.

Got run ragged by a 21 year old college player Saturday. I had to give up before we finished 2nd set. He won first one also. I think I got heat stroke. He was still pretty fresh... Lol.

lololol bossman, you are out of shape... must be those chicken cutlets.
 

arche3

Banned
I even eat a pack of the Goo energy packs and was hydrating on change overs. Old men need the help of technology. I ate a good dinner Friday night. Kid said he was out partying Friday and was Hung over.

lololol bossman, you are out of shape... must be those chicken cutlets.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
I 100% disagree. This has been disproven over and over and over. The benchmarking process normalizes the NTRP levels for league players across the whole country for the levels where there are significant league players (which I would say is up to 4.5). Look at Nationals results. The "powerhouse" sections do NOT dominate nationals at all. Personally, I play in Middle States and I've played NTRP players from Eastern, Mid Atlantic, Florida, and Arizona, and I did not notice a significant difference in levels.

I think what you are seeing is that the USTA has redefined the NTRP levels nationally over the last 2 years, so the fat slow guys in NJ that are 4.0s now were 3.5s 2 years ago, but that is true in CA as well as NJ.

I'm probably one of the few here who has actual, firsthand knowledge of CA vs. NY/NJ. I grew up in CA and played tennis until college. Then I moved to NY/NJ for work and played tennis there. Now I am back in CA. There were very few people I lost to in NY/NJ. (Actually I was undefeated.) At the same level in CA I still win more than I lose but it's a LOT tougher. Also there were 0 juniors in NY/NJ who really impressed me but in CA I see one practically everyday.

Bottom line: Although the video doesn't tell all and you can't really tell how someone actually plays in a match, I think it would be a very long stretch to rate Dozu as a CA 5.0. Even 4.5 might be generous.
 
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dozu

Banned
I even eat a pack of the Goo energy packs and was hydrating on change overs. Old men need the help of technology. I ate a good dinner Friday night. Kid said he was out partying Friday and was Hung over.

yeah, don't you wish you were 21 again .... (or even 31 will do !)

of course at 21 you didn't have any money, but didn't matter right? the body was invincible !!
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
I'm probably one of the few here who has actual, firsthand knowledge of CA vs. NY/NJ. I grew up in CA and played tennis until college. Then I moved to NY/NJ for work and played tennis there. Now I am back in CA. There were very few people I lost to in NY/NJ. (Actually I was undefeated.) At the same level in CA I still win more than I lose but it's a LOT tougher. Also there were 0 juniors in NY/NJ who really impressed me but in CA I see one practically everyday.

Bottom line: Although the video doesn't tell all and you can't really tell how someone actually plays in a match, I think it would be a very long stretch to rate Dozu as a CA 5.0. Even 4.5 might be generous.

Juniors is a totally different animal. What NTRP level did you play? This regional equalization is only applicable to USTA NTRP league players where there is a specific mathematical process that explicitly equalizes the levels across the country. Furthermore, I don't know how applicable it is to 5.0 since 5.0 league play is more sporadic across the country. But for levels where there is significant league play, league players everywhere are all about the same level. 3.5 is 3.5 everywhere. 4.0 is 4.0 everywhere. 4.5 is 4.5 everywhere. This is indisputable. I wouldn't be surprised to find that juniors are better in CA or FL than NJ. Junior levels are not equalized. I would not be surprised to find that open players are better in CA than NJ. Open players are not equalized. NTRP league players, however, are.

For example, check out this guy (I played on a team with him in PA in 2008 ):

2011 Record in S Cal:

http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...DB0017EA52D08A8695842B5A19380F5E5D&CYear=2011

2008 Record in Middle States:

http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...00AF4DBEE0A6BCB5847B3A69084F1E6D4C&CYear=2008

Almost exactly the same.
 

HunterST

Hall of Fame
I'm probably one of the few here who has actual, firsthand knowledge of CA vs. NY/NJ. I grew up in CA and played tennis until college. Then I moved to NY/NJ for work and played tennis there. Now I am back in CA. There were very few people I lost to in NY/NJ. (Actually I was undefeated.) At the same level in CA I still win more than I lose but it's a LOT tougher. Also there were 0 juniors in NY/NJ who really impressed me but in CA I see one practically everyday.

Bottom line: Although the video doesn't tell all and you can't really tell how someone actually plays in a match, I think it would be a very long stretch to rate Dozu as a CA 5.0. Even 4.5 might be generous.

I also think there's a difference between league players of a given NTRP and tournament players of the same level. I could be wrong, though.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
Without getting too much into specifics or doing a quantitative analysis, from personal experience it's safe to say CA players are generally better players than NY/NJ players at same NTRP levels. It's just like saying CA women generally look (A LOT) better than NY/NJ women. Just accept it.

Of course once in a while you get a whacky, idiot savant like McEnroe from Queens who throws off the whole curve, but generally speaking...
 

dozu

Banned
I think TenFanLA, arche3 and JRB are all correct.

If the NTRP equalization does what it's supposed to do, then the playing levels are more or less equal, at least for the popularized levels 4.5 and below....

Problem is that there are captains out there like John, recruiting 2, 3 stars for his 4.0 team LOL, trying to gain an advantage.. and there are just more of these 'ringers' available in CA, FL, TX than in NY/NJ....

no wonder you get all these 'my 4.x is better than your 4.x' arguments :twisted::twisted::twisted:
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
LeeD: Didn't you make out pushers could make it on tour??? That did make me laugh.
Did you see his comment about 'roids and how in the early 60's anyone who was any good at a sport was taking them? And today, any world class athlete, despite ALL THE TESTING, is taking something.

... a 'falling 4.0', ...
That's a classic too. Smells like Denial to me... wonder how many times a day LeeD listens to his 'Glory Days' cassette. :D

Having said all that, and trying to be constructive dozu, and hoping this isn't a sign of The Apocalypse, I may end up siding with LeeD (sort of). I've watched parts of your videos - I still haven't seen you hit a topspin BH (point me to one and the time if that's not true and I'll come back and admit it). I find it hard to believe 4.5's wouldn't work that slice, if that is your only BH, over all day until they got a short one and put it away.

4.0.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
Without getting too much into specifics or doing a quantitative analysis, ...
Because you can't do the Analysis because of your miniscule amount of data. your experience is way too limited.

You can't say 'sandbagging' to argue off the fact that CA doesn't win every National, at every level.

I would say there is more depth in CA, FL, and the other Tennis Hotbeds. Meaning, if an advanced player visits one of those areas, they're more likely to find more other advanced players to play or hit with.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
WCAce, maybe you should read my comments about the early '60's athletes, and try to understand this time. We were OFFERED, not given, steriods after the "company speech" thing about effects and aftereffects. We made our own decisions whether to take them or not. In my case, since I had been on body building powders for years, I decided NOT to take them as nothing seemed to make my skinny body grow. But I couldn't AFFORD them anyways.
As for "falling 4.0". I've played a few 3.5 ranked USTA guys the last couple years, a few USTA 4.0 and 4.5 guys too. Even some real 5-5.5's.
While I get beaten every time in 4.5, I can usually hold my own and lose in 4.0, but never come close to losing to any good 3.5.
38 years of tennis will do that to a person, especially a couple years playing in A/Opens.
And for what it's worth, I play in the SanFrancisco area, where top high school players can fit right into middling 4.5 levels.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
"Glory days"
Ya think, possibly playing every day for 5 years back in the mid '70's, I was maybe a little better than I am now?
In between those years, '70's to now, I've spent 2 years in the ExpertPro class in AMA NorCal motocross (unfortunately took 5 to get there), 4 years racing WorldCup in windsurfing (still windsurfing, but only 5 days a week), a couple years shooting IPSC and PracticalPistol, including 2 FREE trips to JeffCooper's Ranch in Arizona, kiteboarded 100 days to learn (so I could sell the stuff), some 250+ days of snowboarding, so tennis was NOT a priority after 1978. It still takes a backseat to windsurfing.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Without getting too much into specifics or doing a quantitative analysis, from personal experience it's safe to say CA players are generally better players than NY/NJ players at same NTRP levels. It's just like saying CA women generally look (A LOT) better than NY/NJ women. Just accept it.

Of course once in a while you get a whacky, idiot savant like McEnroe from Queens who throws off the whole curve, but generally speaking...

Well, you are still definitely 100% incorrect. NTRP levels are most certainly normalized across the country (for the most part - nothing the USTA algorithms do works exactly right). I'm sure you can't get into specifics because either you have none or your "specifics" have to do with juniors or college or open or some other group of players that is not normalized and, in fact, probably is much better in CA.
 

dozu

Banned
@ACE - 1:15 and another at the very end.

it's more difficult to develop a GOOD slice... but once done, it's equally effective as the topspin ball.. it's is my favorite BH... the topspin is only used to hit dipping passes and punish sitters.

a few years playing with a lefty will certainly shore up that slice... the average 4.5 will probably suffer from the slice before drawing a short one from me.

the slice attacks swing flaws better than the topspin ball, due to it's better depth and the skidding.... any 'muscling' element in the opponent's swing is where I will send the slices, because a break-down is almost guaranteed there.

in an extreme example - the slice is Ken Rosewall's ONLY BH.... another almost as extreme example, I probably hit over the bh as often as Steffi Graf does.
 
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West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
it's more difficult to develop a GOOD slice... ....
No, it's more difficult to develop BOTH! Any advanced player, 4.5 and up, with a one hander probably has both.

They both have their place. And bringing up Ken and Steffi just makes my point - you had to go BACK to give examples of players that could hang without a reliable top BH. Why not throw Big Bird Shriver and Gimelstob in too?

4.5s can hit with power - (assuming they're righties) - would move to their left and hit loopy, deep topspin FHs into your BH at 75%-80% - over and over. They'd get a short one before too long.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Actually, for the later part of her career, Steffi had arguably the best and strongest TOPSPIN backhand of anyone....this was slightly before Henin's time. She used it in practice, scared anyone who thought of approaching her on that side, and sliced her way maintaining the top level she was.
She still can hit it, as seen in the vid of her in black tights hitting in LasVegas.
 

dozu

Banned
No, it's more difficult to develop BOTH! Any advanced player, 4.5 and up, with a one hander probably has both.

They both have their place. And bringing up Ken and Steffi just makes my point - you had to go BACK to give examples of players that could hang without a reliable top BH. Why not throw Big Bird Shriver and Gimelstob in too?

4.5s can hit with power - (assuming they're righties) - would move to their left and hit loopy, deep topspin FHs into your BH at 75%-80% - over and over. They'd get a short one before too long.

well, even kindergarten kid knows 2>1, why don't we say it's more difficult to develop topspin, flat, slice, dropshot, lob all together?

while the pros games have progress to different styles today, your average rec player plays pretty much the same as decades ago.

you ask for a topspin BH, I gave you 2... now you say 4.5s can break down my BH, this is only speculation... I have seen enough inside out FH from righties... been there done that... this slice battles former satellite level inside out big kick FHs almost on daily basis now (my other regular partner), and let me say this - it does hold up.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
@ACE - 1:15 and another at the very end.

it's more difficult to develop a GOOD slice... but once done, it's equally effective as the topspin ball.. it's is my favorite BH... the topspin is only used to hit dipping passes and punish sitters.

a few years playing with a lefty will certainly shore up that slice... the average 4.5 will probably suffer from the slice before drawing a short one from me.

the slice attacks swing flaws better than the topspin ball, due to it's better depth and the skidding.... any 'muscling' element in the opponent's swing is where I will send the slices, because a break-down is almost guaranteed there.

in an extreme example - the slice is Ken Rosewall's ONLY BH.... another almost as extreme example, I probably hit over the bh as often as Steffi Graf does.

A little dreaming going on again, solid 4.5 players will take advantage of your slice all day long. Where do you come up with this stuff, now i know that a slice can break down some players. More like high school to maybe weak 4.0 players. But the 4.5 players i have seen will win easily every time against a player that only slices.

There are some exceptions, like a very good net rusher that slices well and has other weapons. You can actually state that a good slice is just as good as a top spin shot? You are not going to sit back at the baseline and just slice all day, the big boys will shove that crap down your throat.
 

dozu

Banned
Actually, for the later part of her career, Steffi had arguably the best and strongest TOPSPIN backhand of anyone....this was slightly before Henin's time. She used it in practice, scared anyone who thought of approaching her on that side, and sliced her way maintaining the top level she was.
She still can hit it, as seen in the vid of her in black tights hitting in LasVegas.

I know her topspin BH is a beast in practice... but in matches she still slices..hard to believe she won all the French Opens with that... slices are supposed to sit up on clay.

it's funny how my game resembles hers (in an amateurish way of course)...FH late contact and high follow thru, BH slices, high serve toss, and I even copied (unknowingly) her serve pin point with feet spread apart... wish I can serve someday nearly as fast as she does.
 

dozu

Banned
I take what I said back...
You prob lose bagels/breadsticks to a solid 4.5
Your slice, forehand, and serve cannot win points.

not sure about the bagel/breadstick part.... but you are right, I don't 'win' points...

these shots usually don't hit out of reach winners, but can draw lots of errors and short balls... and you see how I hit mid court balls.... at weak 5.0 and below, it's all about MISTAKES.
 

dozu

Banned
A little dreaming going on again, solid 4.5 players will take advantage of your slice all day long. Where do you come up with this stuff, now i know that a slice can break down some players. More like high school to maybe weak 4.0 players. But the 4.5 players i have seen will win easily every time against a player that only slices.

There are some exceptions, like a very good net rusher that slices well and has other weapons. You can actually state that a good slice is just as good as a top spin shot? You are not going to sit back at the baseline and just slice all day, the big boys will shove that crap down your throat.

tlm, we've been thru this... who are the 'big boys'? the shirtless 4.5? or the hawaii 5.0?

don't give me the 'my 4.5 is better' again... the definition of insanity is doing the same thing while expecting different outcomes.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
tlm, we've been thru this... who are the 'big boys'? the shirtless 4.5? or the hawaii 5.0?

don't give me the 'my 4.5 is better' again... the definition of insanity is doing the same thing while expecting different outcomes.

The definition of insanity is saying that a slice is just as effective as a top spin backhand and saying you will break down 4.5 players with your so so slice. This is hilarious, please just bring your super slice to a usta 4.5 level tournament and let us know how well that goes. Oh wait thats right you will not do that because then you would step knee deep into reality.
 

dozu

Banned
The definition of insanity is saying that a slice is just as effective as a top spin backhand and saying you will break down 4.5 players with your so so slice. This is hilarious, please just bring your super slice to a usta 4.5 level tournament and let us know how well that goes. Oh wait thats right you will not do that because then you would step knee deep into reality.

now we are going in circles again - so let me give the rebuttal and stop the insanity.

I have offered video polls, escrows etc, moved over/under from bread/bagel to winning 2 matches in a 4.5 tournament.... NO TAKERS.

in fact, all the people who talk down my game, don't even have their own hitting video published..... while those who at least are willing to give the benefit of the doubt, are those who are proven tourney players, or have some hitting vids published.

Just shows you there are correlations between playing ability and understanding of tennis, and therefore ability to rate another player.

I will stop now.... tlm, let's talk about something else, like the weather or something.
 
yes, right, no chance of any slice backhands denting the big boys at USTA 4.5...

best this poor fool doesn't try any of that slice crap or he'll get it shoved down his throat..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrb8LTfhjYo

Picking off mental midget ball bashers with evil low balls that snake out of their rather narrow comfort zones remains one of life's great pleasures as I continue the slide into middle age. Can I hit a topspin BH? Of course I can, and it is my default rally ball, but don't try and tell me there is no such thing as a slice winner.

But I'm an open player and level 3 coach , no match for those big boys of the USTA 4.5 circuit, what do I know?

*can no longer contain self and falls off chair
 
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D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
All this arguing back and forth is nonsensical and pointless, esp. from a 5 min video. The bottom line is when I die, my gravestone will say, "5.0!"
 

dozu

Banned
But I'm an open player and level 3 coach
*can no longer contain self and falls off chair

Timbo I bit your other thread.... thought you had some office job with spare time to dig up old posts and all LOL...

ok, need to go to sleep now.... tomorrow morning I may try the rubber band method to shoot from a better angle.
 

HunterST

Hall of Fame
yes, right, no chance of any slice backhands denting the big boys at USTA 4.5...

best this poor fool doesn't try any of that slice crap or he'll get it shoved down his throat..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrb8LTfhjYo

Picking off mental midget ball bashers with evil low balls that snake out of their rather narrow comfort zones remains one of life's great pleasures as I continue the slide into middle age. Can I hit a topspin BH? Of course I can, and it is my default rally ball, but don't try and tell me there is no such thing as a slice winner.

But I'm an open player and level 3 coach , no match for those big boys of the USTA 4.5 circuit, what do I know?

*can no longer contain self and falls off chair

No one said slice was worthless, just that if it's a player's only option, he's going to be in trouble. I've heard a former college player who hit mostly slice say that once his opponents saw his backhand, it was 90% backhands from then on. Slices are good for defense or changing pace, but not as a go-to shot.

This isn't directed at Dozu because didn't he point out some of his topspin backhands? I imagine if his slice was getting eaten up he'd go to topspin.
 
yeah, I agree. Like I say, my rally ball on the bh is top spin. I think it was the poster who started carrying on about 4.5 players being too strong for a slice BH to break down or something like that..
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
now we are going in circles again - so let me give the rebuttal and stop the insanity.

I have offered video polls, escrows etc, moved over/under from bread/bagel to winning 2 matches in a 4.5 tournament.... NO TAKERS.

in fact, all the people who talk down my game, don't even have their own hitting video published..... while those who at least are willing to give the benefit of the doubt, are those who are proven tourney players, or have some hitting vids published.

Just shows you there are correlations between playing ability and understanding of tennis, and therefore ability to rate another player.

I will stop now.... tlm, let's talk about something else, like the weather or something.

All you have offered is a bunch of BS, just bring your killer slice to a usta 4.5 level tournament. Your videos don't mean crap and your babbling about escrows and on and on. Just your way of living in your dream world. Any of the real tennis players i know play in leagues or tournaments, they know what level they can compete in. It is so simple pay an entry fee get in a tournament bring your super slice and take your opponents down. What are you waiting for?
 

arche3

Banned
True. Dozu this is the best way to know. Dozu might just know his regular playing partners game so well that he can win easily.
Against unfamiliar people is where your skill is tested.

All you have offered is a bunch of BS, just bring your killer slice to a usta 4.5 level tournament. Your videos don't mean crap and your babbling about escrows and on and on. Just your way of living in your dream world. Any of the real tennis players i know play in leagues or tournaments, they know what level they can compete in. It is so simple pay an entry fee get in a tournament bring your super slice and take your opponents down. What are you waiting for?
 

dozu

Banned
10366aq.jpg


Head Graphite Edge, and Prince Spectrum Comp, both in good condition, with leather grips.

Found 20 min ago at yard sale for $3/each..... for your viewing pleasure!
 

dozu

Banned
True. Dozu this is the best way to know. Dozu might just know his regular playing partners game so well that he can win easily.
Against unfamiliar people is where your skill is tested.

partially agree.... I can also argue that my partners know my game very well, but why can't they figure it out for so long... real answer is my game doesn't have any screaming holes.

"to know" is not enough motivation for me... I've got good partners to hit with.. on a nice Saturday like this, I can take kids to Toyz R Us, and pick up $3 rackets from yard sale.... tennis life is perfect right now, why should I spend time in some lousy tournaments just to prove to some random people on the internet (lol, not you arche3, I am referring to some clueless guys who apparently don't play tennis)

I was trying to create some incentive, but no takers..... actually wise decision not to take the bet to be honest.... look at the other thread, look at the people OP beat on his way to the semis of a 4.5 tournament.... it's basically a sure $3k pay day if anyone took me up on it.... maybe a fair bet is that I have to win 2 rounds with bagel/breadstick scores.

and finally - WELL DONE, LI NA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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mightyrick

Legend
True. Dozu this is the best way to know. Dozu might just know his regular playing partners game so well that he can win easily.
Against unfamiliar people is where your skill is tested.

+1. Entering a tournament or a ladder is the way to do it. I entered the USTA at NTRP 3.5. In my first USTA tournament, I ended up losing in the consolation bracket to the #1 seed 7-5, 6-4.

The point is that prior to entering USTA tournaments, I have beaten some (but not many) 4.0s. Some of these 4.0s were USTA and some were "self-rated". Nonetheless, I had no delusions about my ability. The 4.0s who beat me usually beat me very handily.

These days, I play regularly in USTA ladders -- and some tournaments -- now. And I can say for certain that if someone is just hitting casually with people, they can't use that as a basis for determining their skill level. You have to enter a tournament or a ladder. You have to play different kinds of people -- strangers -- to have any real sense of your ability.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
partially agree.... I can also argue that my partners know my game very well, but why can't they figure it out for so long... real answer is my game doesn't have any screaming holes.

"to know" is not enough motivation for me... I've got good partners to hit with.. on a nice Saturday like this, I can take kids to Toyz R Us, and pick up $3 rackets from yard sale.... tennis life is perfect right now, why should I spend time in some lousy tournaments just to prove to some random people on the internet (lol, not you arche3, I am referring to some clueless guys who apparently don't play tennis)

I was trying to create some incentive, but no takers..... actually wise decision not to take the bet to be honest.... look at the other thread, look at the people OP beat on his way to the semis of a 4.5 tournament.... it's basically a sure $3k pay day if anyone took me up on it.... maybe a fair bet is that I have to win 2 rounds with bagel/breadstick scores.

and finally - WELL DONE, LI NA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just stay in la la land.
 

gahaha

Rookie
All this talk about slice back hands..When I first started out all I had was a slice back hand, I even learned to slice with biting side spin and eventually biting diagonal spin. Even today its become a habit, so much that people complained during rallies as it was stretching them far out.

But having just a slice back hand during a game is not a good thing lol. Even for high school varsity level, depends on the school, but no one in the top 10 restrain themselves to just a slice back hand.

When I was young 9yrs old or so, I really thought if I worked on my slice back hand enough it would substitute for a drive, boy was I wrong..

You might think you're doing ok now, but eventually you'll see how difficult it is trying to win with a pure slice back hand. Age can be a limitation, but from your video you look pretty young for some reason, at least to me, heck I am 20 and I think you look younger lol.

But I know your video isn't to show off or anything, and it was mildly ok to watch, I didn't watch the whole thing.
 
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mightyrick

Legend
partially agree.... I can also argue that my partners know my game very well, but why can't they figure it out for so long... real answer is my game doesn't have any screaming holes.

"to know" is not enough motivation for me... I've got good partners to hit with.. on a nice Saturday like this, I can take kids to Toyz R Us, and pick up $3 rackets from yard sale.... tennis life is perfect right now, why should I spend time in some lousy tournaments just to prove to some random people on the internet (lol, not you arche3, I am referring to some clueless guys who apparently don't play tennis)

Dozu, this is the hypocrisy. You were notorious for requesting that people constantly post videos in order to prove their tennis prowess. Did people not say the same thing then that you are saying now? "Why should I upload a video to prove to random people on the internet I am as good as I say I am?"

Videos prove nothing. Personal statements or observations prove nothing. When it comes to a real rating, tournament or ladder results are where the real proof is. Nobody is asking you to post a USTA # or what not. Just enter a tournament and come back... and report how you did.
 
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