Question About the Loundon?

john blackman · Jul 23, 2011

From reading the blogs and the TW review it appears this racquet is polarised and not good for my flat 1hbh or semi flat fh. Could you guys give me some feedback on this as the specs of this club seems to fit all my needs. THANKS

Fuji · Jul 23, 2011

You can mod any racket to be depolarized, or polarized. All it takes is literally a few grams of lead!

-Fuji

Pneumated1 · Jul 23, 2011

john blackman said:
From reading the blogs and the TW review it appears this racquet is polarised and not good for my flat 1hbh or semi flat fh. Could you guys give me some feedback on this as the specs of this club seems to fit all my needs. THANKS

I guess "polarized" can be defined several ways. The frame has its heft in the 3/9 position. You can "depolarize" it a little more with 2 grams of lead at 5/7 and 1 gram inside the throat. Trust me, it's all you'll need, and you can definitely hit your semi flat shots with it, imo. I hit on a flatish trajectory with a lot of bite, however that might be classified, and the London works for me.

However, with that said, hit the Volkl Organix 295 with the London, maybe even the new Dunlop 300, if possible, before making a final decision. That would be my recommendation.

Fuji · Jul 23, 2011

Pneumated1 said:
I guess "polarized" can be defined several ways. The frame has its heft in the 3/9 position. You can "depolarize" it a little more with 2 grams of lead at 5/7 and 1 gram inside the throat. Trust me, it's all you'll need, and you can definitely hit your semi flat shots with it, imo. I hit on a flatish trajectory with a lot of spin, however that might be classified, and the London works for me.

However, with that said, hit the Volkl Organix 295 with the London, maybe even the new Dunlop 300, if possible, before making a final decision. That would be my recommendation.

Your a bit backwards on this one mate!

Polarized is at 12 and buttcap! It's polarized as it in is pointing towards the polls.

Depolarized is 3 and 9, as it pointing in the direction of the equator.

-Fuji

Pneumated1 · Jul 23, 2011

Fuji said:
Your a bit backwards on this one mate!

Polarized is at 12 and buttcap! It's polarized as it in is pointing towards the polls.

Depolarized is 3 and 9, as it pointing in the direction of the equator.

-Fuji

Read my post again, mate! I never defined weight at 3/9 as polarized, which is why I clearly stated that if he wanted to "depolarize it a little more," he could put some lead at 5/7 and in the throat.

My weight on the London is at 5/7 and the throat, which is very centralized and as depolarized as you can get. Compared to my London, weight at 3/9 is moving towards the poles, which means the terminology is limited to define anything. That's my point.

Fuji · Jul 23, 2011

Pneumated1 said:
Read my post again, mate! I never defined weight at 3/9 as polarized, which is why I clearly stated that if he wanted to "depolarize it a little more," he could put some lead at 5/7 and in the throat.

My weight on the London is at 5/7 and the throat, which is very centralized and as depolarized as you can get. Compared to my London, weight at 3/9 is moving towards the poles, which means the terminology is limited to define anything. That's my point.

Right! Sorry, I didn't read very carefully!

My bad!

I just rolled out of bed LOL!

Lead at 5/7? I've never tried it there! normally I just pile it on at 3/9 and I love it, but I might try it out later today!

-Fuji

Pneumated1 · Jul 23, 2011

Fuji said:
Right! Sorry, I didn't read very carefully! My bad!

I just rolled out of bed LOL!

Lead at 5/7? I've never tried it there! normally I just pile it on at 3/9 and I love it, but I might try it out later today!

-Fuji

No problem, friend

I've always considered weight at 3/9 as "depolarized" as well, but I guess you can get even more depolarized than that. The London is the only racquet where I've ever put weight at 5/7, and it only for more ball bite, not stability. It also seems to keep the mid-upper hoop a little more nimble, giving the hoop a little more roll through the swing. However, imo, this only works out if the hoop is plenty stable above 5/7, whether naturally or though mods.

I forgot to ask, is the "ENFJ" in your signature your "type"? I used to study it a lot, so just curious.

vantageboy · Jul 23, 2011

i can swing as hard as i want with my 1hbh and my LONDON gives me great control and pace and i hit with roll not heavy topspin. i now have only lead tape in the handle with overgrip weighs 11.8 . your hitting style is good to go

Pneumated1 · Jul 23, 2011

vantageboy said:
i can swing as hard as i want with my 1hbh and my LONDON gives me great control and pace and i hit with roll not heavy topspin. i now have only lead tape in the handle with overgrip weighs 11.8 . your hitting style is good to go

You still using the leather grip?

cellofaan · Jul 23, 2011

john blackman said:
From reading the blogs and the TW review it appears this racquet is polarised and not good for my flat 1hbh or semi flat fh. Could you guys give me some feedback on this as the specs of this club seems to fit all my needs. THANKS

It's not polarized at all.

The London has a polarization index of 0.457
For reference, a BLX90 has 0.481 and a APDGT 0.504
A higher number being more polarized.

vantageboy · Jul 23, 2011

Pneumated1 said:
You still using the leather grip?

loved it for the weight it added but with severe elbow pain like mine i went back to the cushtec syn grip and lead in the handle as this seems to help with that.

dParis · Jul 23, 2011

cellofaan said:
It's not polarized at all.

The London has a polarization index of 0.457
For reference, a BLX90 has 0.481 and a APDGT 0.504
A higher number being more polarized.

Where did you get the polarization index?

TennisMaverick · Jul 23, 2011

john blackman said:
From reading the blogs and the TW review it appears this racquet is polarised and not good for my flat 1hbh or semi flat fh. Could you guys give me some feedback on this as the specs of this club seems to fit all my needs. THANKS

Unfortunately, we had a few non-BB/Volkl contributors who instigated fights on the original Volkl thread, and then, had the second one shut down. The first one had info in it that was incomparable to all Volkl threads, as this is the most popular frame in the line, after the V1's. With that being said, this is a very accommodating frame.

If you pressure the back of the ball and hit flat or grind the ball by hitting the back and then going over the top/bottom, this frame works great because of its super-long dwell-time. Be mindful that the stick is very string sensitive, so if your stringers craftsmanship is weak, the ball will most likely trampoline off the face, but this was the type of player that Volkl had in-mind, regardless of what you have read. However, if you are a heavy topsin players, but need the dwell time to generate spin because your racquet head acceleration is not Nadal or Roddick fast, then this stick works very well too.

Fuji · Jul 23, 2011

Pneumated1 said:
No problem, friend

I've always considered weight at 3/9 as "depolarized" as well, but I guess you can get even more depolarized than that. The London is the only racquet where I've ever put weight at 5/7, and it only for more ball bite, not stability. It also seems to keep the mid-upper hoop a little more nimble, giving the hoop a little more roll through the swing. However, imo, this only works out if the hoop is plenty stable above 5/7, whether naturally or though mods.

I forgot to ask, is the "ENFJ" in your signature your "type"? I used to study it a lot, so just curious.

Ahhhh, makes sense! I might try this out!

Yup! ENFJ is my "type"!

I study it as well, and it's pretty nifty!

-Fuji

Pneumated1 · Jul 23, 2011

vantageboy said:
i can swing as hard as i want with my 1hbh and my LONDON gives me great control and pace and i hit with roll not heavy topspin. i now have only lead tape in the handle with overgrip weighs 11.8 . your hitting style is good to go

Just to clarify for the OP, I do the same: hit with a flat roll as well---what Maverick has described above as "grinding" the ball. I pressure the middle, or just below the middle of the ball and "roll" over it from there. I get quite a bit of bite on the ball, but I'm not hitting with a great deal of topspin. I'm surprised sometimes to see what I perceive to be the label of the ball (rolling slowly), and yet the ball has a lot of bite.

You should be fine with the London.

cellofaan · Jul 26, 2011

dParis said:
Where did you get the polarization index?

I calculated it, using the formulas from this post, withthe specs from tw

corners said:
Going by the strung specs from TW:

332 grams
32.5 cm
330 swingweight

Polarization index = recoil weight / static weight

Recoil weight = swingweight - (static weight x (balance -10)^2) = 330 - (.332 x (22.5)^2) = 162

Polarization index of stock PDR cortex = 162/332 = .488

Cycloneshot's customization: +5 grams at 3 &9 (21" from butt)
+21 grams at top of grip (7" from butt?)

new specs:

358 grams
31.9 cm
341 swingweight

Recoil weight = 341 - (.358 x (21.9)^2) = 169

Polarization index for customized PDR cortex = 169/358 = .472

So your custom stick is less polarized TennezSport was right, adding lead at the top of the grip and at 3 & 9 depolarizes the stick (slightly). Remember that polarization is a relative term. A racquet can be more or less polarized, but it's all just a matter of degree. If you really wanted to depolarize a stick you'd put all the lead in the throat or on the bridge.

Just for fun, let's put your 5 grams at 12 o'clock and your 21 grams in the butt cap. New specs:

358 grams
31.2 cm
347 swingweight

Recoil weight = 186
Polarization index = 186/358 = .52

BTW, these specs are almost identical to what Martina Navratilova (5'7" serve and volley/doubles player) uses today.

TennisMaverick · Jul 26, 2011

Pneumated1 said:
London is the only racquet where I've ever put weight at 5/7, and it only for more ball bite, not stability.

If you hit the ball the way you describe, that's a mistake. I hit the ball the same way, and I have had lead at 5/7 since I started using Volkl, to compensate from the more narrow shoulders from that of my Kneissl White Stars.

john blackman · Jul 26, 2011

So let me get this stright. If I want a polarized london racquet, I have to lead it up from 11 oz to almost 12 oz to get the desired affect. I can handle 11.5 or so but not that much weight. Im getting a little confused about all of this. Why go to all this trouble when there are so many good 12 oz sticks out there?

john blackman · Jul 26, 2011

Sorry for the misprint. I meant if I want a depolarized racquet I need to lead it up a full oz.

Pneumated1 · Jul 26, 2011

TennisMaverick said:
If you hit the ball the way you describe, that's a mistake. I hit the ball the same way, and I have had lead at 5/7 since I started using Volkl, to compensate from the more narrow shoulders from that of my Kneissl White Stars.

From previous comments, I would assume that you hit the ball a little flatter than me. But you're probably right, considering that I'm somewhat new to the idea of lead at 5/6/7 and throat. But you have to remember that I've always hit the Dunlop 300's, which are in desperate need of lead from 3/9 up to 2/10. In hindsight, though, I realize that I should have leaded 5/6/7 and throat as well. I prefer the feel and response of a racquet with stock weight in this area, like the 295.

This makes me wonder how a London would perform with the DC from 4/5/6/7/8, instead of from 1/11 through 4/8? That's how I would create it for myself, but as John Donne reminds me, "No man is an island."

Pneumated1 · Jul 26, 2011

john blackman said:
Sorry for the misprint. I meant if I want a depolarized racquet I need to lead it up a full oz.

No, you don't need anywhere near an ounce of lead on the London. It's not a polarized frame, really, so you might not need any mods on the frame. But if you want to "depolarize" it a little more, just put 2 grams of lead on the outside of the frame at 5/7, starting just below the DC material. I also have 1 gram of lead inside the throat----the "Y." It's all you'll need, and this is 3 grams. If you need a little more put a gram or two on the bridge at 6:00. You should get a lot of bite from this SETUP, which, btw, is Maverick's favorite word. It's quite an endearing term

Trust me; that's all your London needs, according to your description of your hitting style.

john blackman · Jul 26, 2011

Thanks for info. you have been very helpful. I do have a couple of questions as I need to do the lead thing correctly. 1) What is the DC Material? 2) What is meant by "inside the Throat" is that at the top of the Y or at 7 inches from the butt. That is where I always put lead and I love the feel. Again thanks
Also, I have never put lead on the outside of the frame. Could you send me the reasons its changes vs inside the frame. I wrote a blog a while back asking that question but noone replied. Again Thanks

Pneumated1 · Jul 26, 2011

john blackman said:
Thanks for info. you have been very helpful. I do have a couple of questions as I need to do the lead thing correctly. 1) What is the DC Material? 2) What is meant by "inside the Throat" is that at the top of the Y or at 7 inches from the butt. That is where I always put lead and I love the feel. Again thanks
Also, I have never put lead on the outside of the frame. Could you send me the reasons its changes vs inside the frame. I wrote a blog a while back asking that question but noone replied. Again Thanks

You're very welcome, but I have to defer to TennisMaverick, as the 5/7, bridge, and throat mods were/are his suggestion for this frame, and almost everyone has benefited from them, especially for a certain swing style.

1) The DC material is the maroon, shiny material on the sides of the hoop. Start at the bottom of this material with your lead and run four 2" strips of 1/4" wide lead on either side of the grommet strips. I then cover it with 1" head tape, but that's just my preference.

2) "Inside the throat," for me starts at the top of the "Y" (bottom of the bridge) and runs downward. I have 1 gram in this location: 1/4" lead cut in half to 1/8" wide and 4" long. Therefore, I have two strips 1/8" wide and 4" long, running the better length of the "Y," starting at the top. You could, however, start at the top or bottom (your preference) and use 1/4" lead in 2" lengths. Lead at 7" above the butt cap is something different, but you can keep this, although you will most likely not need as much as normal after these other modifications.

3) Lead on the outside of the frame: I had never thought about it until Maverick suggested it to us London users. From personal experience, I can perceive a more dynamic effect in this location--in balance and swing "roll." I think of it more as an aerodynamic issue, as the leading edge of the stick is the outside, so weight in this location will affect a more dynamic roll of the hoop through the ball. That's my uneducated guess.

Hey Maverick, can you explain your SETUP?

john blackman · Jul 26, 2011

Im more than confused now on what to think about the london. You guys at TW could help with your experience and knowledge. Please jump in with your comments. Or anyone else who has a thought about this problem. Thanks

Pneumated1 · Jul 26, 2011

john blackman said:
Im more than confused now on what to think about the london. You guys at TW could help with your experience and knowledge. Please jump in with your comments. Or anyone else who has a thought about this problem. Thanks

This is simple, John: the London has a lot of stock stability in the DC material, from 11/1 all the way down to 4/8. It's not a "polarized" frame by definition. You most likely could hit the frame stock. The mods that I've recommended are only IF you find that you need to depolarize it a bit more to suit your own personal needs. These mods would simply beef up the frame in an area where it's not, "depolarize" it a bit more, and enhance the balance for the flatter swing that you've indicated.

This frame plays great stock and is VERY sensitive to mods. Too much isolated weight in certain areas makes the stick feel like a brick. However, if you mod this stick properly, it's sublime for its class. Several of us, myself included, have done extensive experimentation to fine tune this racquet to an optimal level. Most of us who hit the London have the frame modified similarly, with slight variations.

It's almost as if we've given you the answers to an open-book test, but that's not sufficient

I'll step aside and let you find your way. I wish you the best.

john blackman · Jul 28, 2011

OK guys, you have sold me on the london. Lets talk STRINGS. Been using soft multis as had some elbows problems in the past and want to keep them in the past. Using Tech multifeel now and like it very much. Average power, last with flat shots a long time, cheap, confortable,keeps it tension very very well until it breaks, does not move at all,(using 17) Dont like to screw with hybirds, polys, etc. THANKS

Pneumated1 · Jul 28, 2011

john blackman said:
OK guys, you have sold me on the london. Lets talk STRINGS. Been using soft multis as had some elbows problems in the past and want to keep them in the past. Using Tech multifeel now and like it very much. Average power, last with flat shots a long time, cheap, confortable,keeps it tension very very well until it breaks, does not move at all,(using 17) Dont like to screw with hybirds, polys, etc. THANKS

I would recommend a full multi or syn. gut above mid-tension, maybe 60/57 or 58/55. I've only hit hybrids in the London, but I'm moving the full multi or syn. gut direction myself.

I think Vantageboy strings full gut at mid-tension 55/52 or something like that. From the sounds of it, he hits it a lot like you.

So yeah, full multi at mid-upper tension should work well, but drop the cross tension 2-4 lbs. And if you're wondering, it's a Volkl recommendation to do so because of varying reasons, all of which I don't know, but primarily on this frame because of the longer mains/shorter crosses and the stiffness of the DC in contact with the cross strings. I hope this helps; it's a good choice!

john blackman · Jul 28, 2011

Thanks again Pneumated1 for all your imput. I will will be taking your advice to the letter. The tension requirementss you reccomented are the ones I presently use so there is no problem there. Happy Hitting this summer.

canadad · Jul 28, 2011

john blackman said:
OK guys, you have sold me on the london. Lets talk STRINGS. Been using soft multis as had some elbows problems in the past and want to keep them in the past. Using Tech multifeel now and like it very much. Average power, last with flat shots a long time, cheap, confortable,keeps it tension very very well until it breaks, does not move at all,(using 17) Dont like to screw with hybirds, polys, etc. THANKS

Good choice John, I switched to the London due to arm problems and it has certainly helped. I have ordered some Multis to try. I have only had mine for about a month and have not completely made up my mind as to set ups with lead and strings.
So far my favourite set-up has been Babolat VS with Big Banger Power. I am excited for the multis to come, because while my arm problems have improved, I am thinking the multis will help even more. Cyclone has been nice as well. Another one I tried was Topspin Cyber Blue mixed with Weiss-Cannon Black 5 Edge. Everything has been nice with different polys, (it is all my stringer has in stock) but it will be nice to try something new.
There is some good information in the London Bridges thread.

vantageboy · Jul 28, 2011

make sure your stringer is really good. TMAV has stressed this and that's why at 55/52 all gut i get no flier's or rockets. would love to string as high as u guys but the improved sweet spot at the tension i use is addictive.(my elbow just blew me a kiss) MAY ALL YOUR SHOTS BE WINNERS.

john blackman · Jul 28, 2011

Iv tried pretty much all the multi, trust me because of the arm problems. Now that Ive been using the multis my TE is completly gone and I could probably use any kind of string I care to. But all the blogs say stay away from poly, and I have except 1 week and I paid for that. Try my favorite Tecnifbre multi feel, or close 2nd is mantis confort, 2nd only because it only comes in 16 guage. Another real good string is yonex pro. Of course its a matter of preference and all are low to med power as I can generate my own pace. If you are looking for high power, good string try gamma asterick 16 spin. No movement, soft, holds tension. Strange thing, I bought 2 sets the first broke in 5 sets, the 2nd I had to cut out they lasted so long. Still hitting very good, no movement etc. Pricey but who cares if they work. Hope this helps a little as you can get very confused with all the different strings out there. Think I read over 1000 different strings for sale. Thanks

canadad · Jul 28, 2011

john blackman said:
Iv tried pretty much all the multi, trust me because of the arm problems. Now that Ive been using the multis my TE is completly gone and I could probably use any kind of string I care to. But all the blogs say stay away from poly, and I have except 1 week and I paid for that. Try my favorite Tecnifbre multi feel, or close 2nd is mantis confort, 2nd only because it only comes in 16 guage. Another real good string is yonex pro. Of course its a matter of preference and all are low to med power as I can generate my own pace. If you are looking for high power, good string try gamma asterick 16 spin. No movement, soft, holds tension. Strange thing, I bought 2 sets the first broke in 5 sets, the 2nd I had to cut out they lasted so long. Still hitting very good, no movement etc. Pricey but who cares if they work. Hope this helps a little as you can get very confused with all the different strings out there. Think I read over 1000 different strings for sale. Thanks

Thanks, I've ordered TF Multi-feel and TF x-1 Biphase. That all sounds pretty promising and I have made note of the others you suggested.

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