Jack Sock's past & future?

hound 109

Semi-Pro
Jack Sock plays Roddick in what may be a passing of the torch.

I know a little about him.....would like to know more. Especially in regards to his Junior career. What i know:

- Although born in Nebraska (which the media focuses on), he's lived & trained in greater Kansas City.
- Dude WENT to HS (& won the multiple State HS championships).
- His coach is Mike Wolf (I assume Sock works out at the tennis academy of the same name) from Overland Park KS.
- Started tennis at age 8. (not sure where)
- Great forehand, serve & an ok 2 handed backhand.
- Comes to the net more often than most.
- Great smile....seems to have a good attitude.
- Won multiple USTA National Championships at age 12, age 16 & 18. (not sure what happened at age 14?)

Interesting that:

- obviously no QS.
- Not a USTA training center dude. (correct me if i'm wrong)
- Not a home-schooled dude.
- Not a FL or SoCal dude.
- Considered Nebraska, Oklahoma & Texas....but decided to go pro.

How'd he do it?

- Where (& how) did he train from 9-12 that got him to be the best in the country?

- Was he a banger (or a pusher) at age 10-12?

- Why didn't he go to Boca?

- When did he move to Overland Park?

- Why did he go to HS (& play HS tennis?)

- How many hours a day (or week) did he train to become the top US kid at age 17?



- Is he a future Top 10 player?

- What racquet does he play with?

- Is he buddies with Harrison? Enemies? Will they be the #1 & #2 US players in 2014?

If anyone has info or wants to add comments on this former Junior Champion, please do.

Thanks.

:)
 
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Tennishacker

Professional
Sock is a great argument for keeping your child in "regular school", not home schooled and playing on the high school team.

He is the 1% of 1% to make it as a pro.

Normal childhood=staying in school!
 

NouKy

New User
... He was on the courts from 9-3 everyday like every other top player, not sitting in a classroom.

So how do the other if they failed to become pro.
This mean once the choice done (to become pro), they are no other choice ?
That is dangerous.

For Sock if he passed 9 to 3 everyday, it is not high school
 

SoCal10s

Hall of Fame
Many top ranked junior boys blow by the 14s, basically skipping it, or not putting much emphasis on it and start working 16s. 14 ranking is probably most insignificant of any for boys. Changing bodies, still some ugly tennis (pushing) -- just too inconsistent for some high level players - and they want to get into the big boy game more quickly. I would assume that was Sock's path.


no he broke his foot(???)when was in the 14s ,he was on the mend for a long ,long time...
 
I also understood the high school story to be a PR thing. I don't want to turn this thread, but I don't believe anyone can be a successful pro through a truly traditional school route these days. The competitive level is so high. We can barely miss school for true family emergencies yet tennis tournaments. Back to Jack, he was at an academy and tournaments most days. Not "normal" at all.

I can't figure out if him beating Roddick would be a good thing or bad thing. Hate to see either lose, but that's tennis.

Exactly, his normal was lots of classes done on the road, etc. He wasn't sitting in Mr. Kotter's class shooting spitballs.

There is no formula, some kids leave for academies, some partially, some raised by obsessed dads.....the money making pros are represented by all kinds of backgrounds. Sock worked hard and has lots of tennis talent. But he certainly does not prove that the road to the pros is paved by living a perfectly normal childhood either.
 

hound 109

Semi-Pro
Thanks for all the comments.

.... But what has rubbed current juniors and parents wrong is all the hubbubb of him staying in school and playing high school tennis. He was able to do that because of great flexibility with the school - most well performing high schools will not let a student miss so much school (then claim a diploma from there) and most tennis kids have to choose.

Are there not rules to follow in Kansas? In my state, "academy kids" (or any gifted type kid) is allowed to skip PE in HS & leave at (say) 2pm to go train for 3-4 hours. Are you saying that only his school is "flexible"?

Obviously they were very flexible with Jack as seen by his traveling tournament schedule. I know both the public and private high schools in our area would not allow missing so many days.

Since many of the tournaments are in the summer (or over holidays), how many school days did he (would he) miss? My kid missed 4-5 days last year (would have missed more if he went to the Spring Championships, but we chose not to for school & economic reasons).....as long as it was under 10 days, no problem.

Also you know he wasn't practicing with the team everyday, Monday-Friday which was also a requirement to play on our high school team, and the reason the USTA tournament kids didn't play high school.

That's a pretty dumb school (or coach??) requirement. Not at all a "requirement" in our area.....& nor i guess at Sock's HS.

Sock came in for a match now and then and to get the titles. So basically, Sock had home schooling through his district. Do not think he was sitting in a class everyday.

Again, it is great that he is rockin' it, but don't buy into all the "went to school" hype. It sets unrealistic expectations on everyone else. It is not realistic to think his schedule was anything like a normal high schooler. He was on the courts from 9-3 everyday like every other top player, not sitting in a classroom. And he wasn't practicing with his HS team either. Just making guest appearances.

I doubt he practiced daily with his HS (most 4 star & above players don't)....but are you saying he didn't attend class?

Does anyone else have confirmation that Sock didn't attend HS? (or did he come to school from 8am - 1:30 or 2pm & then go train for a few hours like high level players elsewhere??)

.
 
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hound 109

Semi-Pro
no he broke his foot(???)when was in the 14s ,he was on the mend for a long ,long time...

Thanks for this info. When i googled his name there was an article from (i think) 2007 or 2008 saying he had been dominant in 12s & had never been higher than the 200s in 14s.....then had just won a 16s national tourney. But the article never mentioned why.

I also had wondered if he decided to work on a bigger better game during those two years.
 

tennis5

Professional
Tomorrow, we will be watching Jack Sock on television playing at the US Open...
I think that sentence in itself speaks volumes about his tennis ability...

So, I am not knocking him by writing this,
but I think there is enough stress on high school tennis kids
without a parent thinking to themselves....
Oh, Jack Sock WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL AND IS AN AMAZING PLAYER.
Why not my kid?

(Quotes are taken from different news articles)

"Sock estimates that he has missed “35 or 36” days of school this semester —
even more than last semester, when he attended the first days of classes,
but then left for 18 days straight to play in a tournament."

"Jack's tennis schedule was so heavy last fall and winter,
he missed more school than he attended when the high school season arrived in March. "

At my son's school, you may not leave before 4:00 pm even if you were in the Junior Olympics...
You are allowed to miss 10 days of school a year,
and not a day more ( so flu, stomach virus, surgeries, funerals, have to fit into ten days).

"State association guidelines mandate a minimum enrollment in five classes.
Sock currently takes six, including:

English
Reading Lab
Marketing and Rec Team Sports. "

Now compare with other high school juniors course load:
( and yes, this varies, but is representative of many kids)

AP Calc or AP Statistics
AP Chem or AP Bio or AP Physics
Honors Spanish IV
AP Literature
AP US Gov
Latin 3

And, at my son's school, if you play on your high school school tennis team, you may not miss practice. Period.
If you choose to use part of your ten days above to play the Easter Bowl,
well you can't... because you can't miss the high school tennis team practice.


I think Jack Sock's high school experience is an anomaly.
 
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Tennishacker

Professional
First, I like Sock, have watched him for years. But what has rubbed current juniors and parents wrong is all the hubbubb of him staying in school and playing high school tennis. He was able to do that because of great flexibility with the school - most well performing high schools will not let a student miss so much school (then claim a diploma from there) and most tennis kids have to choose. Obviously they were very flexible with Jack as seen by his traveling tournament schedule. I know both the public and private high schools in our area would not allow missing so many days. Also you know he wasn't practicing with the team everyday, Monday-Friday which was also a requirement to play on our high school team, and the reason the USTA tournament kids didn't play high school. Sock came in for a match now and then and to get the titles. So basically, Sock had home schooling through his district. Do not think he was sitting in a class everyday.

Again, it is great that he is rockin' it, but don't buy into all the "went to school" hype. It sets unrealistic expectations on everyone else. It is not realistic to think his schedule was anything like a normal high schooler. He was on the courts from 9-3 everyday like every other top player, not sitting in a classroom. And he wasn't practicing with his HS team either. Just making guest appearances.

You're missing my point. Unless your child is truly a freak of nature, then just keep them in a traditional school.

My daughter is on a scholarship to a D1 Socal school. She went to public school, won two CIF high school championships (similar to state championship) and played all the L1-3 nat'l junior tournaments.

If Sock's high school experience was not "realistic", then how did he graduate with a high school diploma?
 

tennis5

Professional
You're missing my point. Unless your child is truly a freak of nature, then just keep them in a traditional school.

My daughter is on a scholarship to a D1 Socal school. She went to public school, won two CIF high school championships (similar to state championship) and played all the L1-3 nat'l junior tournaments.

If Sock's high school experience was not "realistic", then how did he graduate with a high school diploma?

What I have learned from this website ( besides tennis info) is that every state's school is different.

But, if your child is taking 4- 5 AP and 2 honor classes,
you really can't miss that much school anyway....
 
What I have learned from this website ( besides tennis info) is that every state's school is different.

But, if your child is taking 4- 5 AP and 2 honor classes,
you really can't miss that much school anyway....

Ha, great player, but lets not act like he had a traditional high school experience. It never got in the way of his tennis. Sure he missed plenty of school. Come on now, he was not exactly rocking high school which isn't very hard anyway in Kansas anyway. Even his coach says his grades are just okay and is basically saying he ain't into all that fancy book learnin....which means he just did what was needed to graduate....in Kansas, where they are very sure the world was formed 6000 years ago. They most likely passed him because he won them tennis championships.

From the Kansas City Star:

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/05/13/2873353/bv-norths-sock-has-been-a-smash.html

"Sock estimates that he has missed “35 or 36” days of school this semester"

"he attended the first days of classes but then left for 18 days straight to play in a tournament."

"The school also has no rule stipulating that student-athletes attend a certain number of days to be eligible to participate in sports. Completion of assignments, not physical attendance, is considered most important."

"“He’s probably not going to woo you with the number of books he’s read,” Wolf says. “His grades are OK."
 
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Tennishacker

Professional
I thought we were talking about Jack Sock's path, not a debate on traditional vs. homeschooling....which has been done before.

Also, the boys track to tennis success is very different than girls, exponentially so.

What kind of statement is that?

What makes them different?

last I looked they have the same coaches as boys, play on the same courts, play the same tournaments, are ranked the same way
 

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
kid looks like he's got a big serve, some wheels and decent forehand. He should be able to hold his own in the pros.
 

NLBwell

Legend
What kind of statement is that?

What makes them different?

last I looked they have the same coaches as boys, play on the same courts, play the same tournaments, are ranked the same way

Girls grow and mature much earlier than boys. Their path is different because of this.
 

b.termite

Rookie
When Sock was between 9-12 he played at the Racquet Club in Lincoln, Nebraska. I go to that club, and a couple of the pros there now coached him when he was younger. One of the college girls who now works hit with him when they were little, said even when he was only 8 he could ace her almost everytime..
 

Tennishacker

Professional
The track being different is that boys tennis is so much more competitive with many more players and half the scholarships, less than that at many D1 schools, so they have to be that much better. The offers for a girl ranked 50-200 nationally is very different than the offers for boys ranked 50-200 nationally. The girls can get a full ride in that range and beyond, where many boys in that same range won't see any offer of scholarship $, but it can them get in the school they want. So boys have to play more tournaments to keep up and often train differently in pursuit of the same goals. That's the different path I meant.

The problem for both girls and boys is that so many available scholarships go to foreign students.

Why it's tough for our kids to get scholarhips, look at New Mexico State's men's and women's team, 100% foreigners!
 

andfor

Legend
The problem for both girls and boys is that so many available scholarships go to foreign students.

Why it's tough for our kids to get scholarhips, look at New Mexico State's men's and women's team, 100% foreigners!

http://www.nmstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1900&SPID=599&SPSID=9896

There's one American. I understand the foreigner beef. But look at the whole picture, how many in state 4, 5 star and Blue Chips recruits are available to fill the rosters for both NM State and NM?

Between New Mexico State and New Mexico I see 3 American kids on the 4 rosters from the state of New Mexico. http://www.golobos.com/

Maybe quota limitations would help. If implemented I foresee unintended consequences surfacing as a result. For states like New Mexico, Nebraska, Utah, Wyoming, Montana and other sparsely populated tennis playing states it's totally unrealistic to think that unqualified D1 athletes should be gifted athletic scholarships and then will contribute to a competitive D1 team.

New Mexico St. and New Mexico women's tennis are great examples of schools with few Americans on their roster. I'd love to hear from their coaches how easy it is to get 4, 5 star and Blue Chips to even give them the time of day.

Put in quota limitations and you'll start to see the same two or three schools win the NCAA's year in and year out.

I still contend if a kid really wants to play college tennis there's a school out there for them that is a fit. Not every American tennis playing kid is going to play at the school of their choice.

Broken record...........Not sure what this has to do with Jack Sock.
 
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willshot

Semi-Pro
Pretty good debut for the youngster..things to learn, but the potential is there, especially with that serve. Great on court behavior and composure, good kid.

Thought it funny how McEnroe kept giving props to USTA Berger and Higueras when Sock is not in any way a USTA product. Sitting in the front row acting like that was their boy. Ha. Sock camp knew to stay away from that. Just used what he needed but kept his training out of their hands. Good for them. Shame his coach couldn't be there to enjoy the Open with his player.


Yea that was funny. Both of them had their hands on their chins as though ...... lol
 
Yea that was funny. Both of them had their hands on their chins as though ...... lol

What a collection, the USTA boys sitting courtside pretending they had anything to do with the discovery or development of Sock or Harrison, and our broadcasters Pat Mac who pretends to run player development as one of his 1000 jobs, and Johnny Mac who is going to make the next champ from rich kids in upper class Manhattan.

My guess says the next American male grand slam winner won't have a thing to do with any of them.
 

willshot

Semi-Pro
What a collection, the USTA boys sitting courtside pretending they had anything to do with the discovery or development of Sock or Harrison, and our broadcasters Pat Mac who pretends to run player development as one of his 1000 jobs, and Johnny Mac who is going to make the next champ from rich kids in upper class Manhattan.

My guess says the next American male grand slam winner won't have a thing to do with any of them.

yep. I agree with that. Pat mac should just stick to commentating. It was embarrassing when he was pretending...... as if we don't know
 
yep. I agree with that. Pat mac should just stick to commentating. It was embarrassing when he was pretending...... as if we don't know

You're being generous. P-Mac should stick to being quiet as most of what he says is either obvious or stupid.
 

chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
I'm curious...so how are they pretending? Is it the way they dress? Sit? Converse?

Do you really think there is zero interaction between Sock & Berger? I've recently seen Sock working down at USTA but it doesn't matter, the kid can play regardless of who's working with him.

Like em or not, both P-Mac and J-Mac are good for American tennis.
 
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hunter

New User
What a collection, the USTA boys sitting courtside pretending they had anything to do with the discovery or development of Sock or Harrison, and our broadcasters Pat Mac who pretends to run player development as one of his 1000 jobs, and Johnny Mac who is going to make the next champ from rich kids in upper class Manhattan.

My guess says the next American male grand slam winner won't have a thing to do with any of them.

Would ya'll have been happier if 2 American men were playing each other in Ashe and Higueras + Berger DIDN'T show up?? Jeezus... I wonder what you would have said then. Sounds like you've got to find a better way to channel your frustrations or you are going to have a heart attack.
 
I'm curious...so how are they pretending? Is it the way they dress? Sit? Converse?

Do you really think there is zero interaction between Sock & Berger? I've recently seen Sock working down at USTA but it doesn't matter, the kid can play regardless of who's working with him.

Like em or not, both P-Mac and J-Mac are good for American tennis.

They were pretending to be involved with Sock and it was disgusting. Their boss Pat was saying how they ran out of room in Sock's players box....as if they should have been there? Pat Mac tries to hitch his coaches onto any young American AFTER they have success to justify the insane waste of money.

Total garbage. High performance is a bust and always has been. A total waste of millions. They had ZERO to do with Sock. And in fact had he gone to them at age 14 he would have probably not ended up where he is today.

Pat Mac has no clue, nor does the USTA. Together they damage US tennis by tossing money down rat holes, they don't help it.

If you think Sock would have the touch and net play and free flowing creativity he has today if he had left Wolf and gone to USTA high performance than you are wrong. His game is a product of his natural talent, combined with the perfect coach for him as he developed. His long time coach saw his talents and sculptured a game to fit. Just like Uncle Toni did for Rafa. Thats not what USTA high performance can do. And none of those bozos last night had a dang thing to do with his development. And they had nothing to do with Harrison either.

Those guys are supposed to discover and develop young players. So sitting courtside while your boss says you should be in the player's box....for a kid almost 19 who has already been discovered and developed? Thans nothing but posing to justify the huge money pit that is USTA high performance.

What players were they discovering last night?? None. They were using their positions to get great seats to a fun match. Once again wasting money. I bet they will also have great seats to watch Djoker and Fed and Rafa. Gee, is that part of their jobs too?

chalk, you obviously have some sort of allegiance to the USTA. Perhaps you should recuse yourself on these topics as your normally insightful posts are pretty lame in regards to USTA.
 
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chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
My allegiance pales in comparison to your defiance. With that said, I will gladly excuse myself from the topic if you would do the same. I know you can't though ;)
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
I understand the foreigner beef. But look at the whole picture, how many in state 4, 5 star and Blue Chips recruits are available to fill the rosters for both NM State and NM?

Zero. Last year's boys' graduating class from New Mexico high schools had four ranked players in the entire state on tennisrecruiting.net: a 3-star, ranked 497 nationally in the class, who went to Carnegie Mellon (DIII); two 2-stars, one of whom is going to Grinnell (DIII) and the other lists no college; and a 1-star, who is going to Azusa Pacific (NAIA).

So, it looks like there is a place for these guys to play tennis, but hard for them to find any scholarship dollars. About what you would expect for that level of tennis. It means the coaches will be paying out of state dollars if they want to have a good team. So, they can pay out of state dollars to foreign recruits or to domestic recruits. As others have asked: What quality of out of state domestic recruit is heading to Las Cruces for four years for tennis?

I also second the motion that this has nothing to do with Jack Sock.
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
I'm curious...so how are they pretending? Is it the way they dress? Sit? Converse?

I think it was where they were sitting that is at issue. Those sitting in the player's box have usually coached him for years, not weeks, or are relatives.
 

tennis5

Professional
I'm curious...so how are they pretending? Is it the way they dress? Sit? Converse?

Do you really think there is zero interaction between Sock & Berger? I've recently seen Sock working down at USTA but it doesn't matter, the kid can play regardless of who's working with him.

Like em or not, both P-Mac and J-Mac are good for American tennis.

I do think John McEnroe does give tennis a high visibility, he is a celebrity, whether you like him or not.

In regards to the USTA High Performing Center...
the proof is in the pudding.
Who have they developed?
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
I never thought for one minute that the torch was going to be passed to Jack Sock. Sock played some good tennis, but he was no match for Roddick, it's wishful thinking to say that "the torch was or may be passed, tonight"
 

magnut

Hall of Fame
He is a typical American player. Lots of weapons. Good athletically. Little discipline. Probably the best indicator is how he handled the big moment from an emotional stanpoint. He very much stayed in the middle and balanced. He didnt get to up and didnt get to down. If he has a high tennis IQ then he has a pretty promising future. He doesnt look to be a headcase and competes well he just needs some experience to get used to pro level tennis.

I will say this. It would be a waste of time to go toi college level tennis. He has the tools to compete at the professional level and be successful. I have not seen many younger Americans with this skill set. I would probably put him at the top of the list well above the talked about players like Harrison.
 

PennAlum

Rookie
I know pretty much everyone is high on this kid however IMO he's not going to make it. Men's tennis is freakin' impossible, you have to desire to succeed more than life itself or have exceptional talent and work relentlessly. Sock has good hands and a good serve but his first step is as fast as a slug. Men's tennis is about moving well. You can't teach quickness. He is not fast enough to hit with his extreme western forehand. Being the best junior in the U.S. is not a guarantee of a successful pro career.
 
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