Nadal: I don't have to Listen to Toni

angler

Rookie
Some rumors are spreading that Federer spoke to Toni and will probably hire him as he wants to win some tournaments as lefty, which he never succeed earlier. Novak also tried but cannot pay as much as Federer can. So Vajda is staying with Novak, but is also considering option to move to Majorca.:lol:
 

Semi-Pro

Hall of Fame
That's so totally untrue it's funny. Rafa is shy, always has been, but he's a very typical Spanish 25 year old who has an extremely strong base of a loving family and many childhood friends, and he's very funny and outgoing, especially when he's home with them and doesn't have to Rafa Nadal The Tennis Player. Almost everyone that knows him well says that he's a very happy young man by nature and is very appreciative of all the love and support he gets from his wide circle of support. He's not a pushy person who enjoys celebrity like certain other players but he's definitely confident and mature and a good caring person (which is probably more important than being a good tennis player).

Post is infested with generalizations, bias and quite frankly a load of BS. I'm sure you don't even believe half the **** you're spewing
 

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
11732085.jpg

Muhahaaaaahaaa

That should be my new avatar
 

dudeski

Hall of Fame
Nadal news thread is not about news.

It's where his fans, usually after a loss, gather and discuss it till they reach an unanimous conclusion on cause of defeat. Once they have it, they relax and release pressure off their hips by posting threads such as " Nadal strong come back in 2012" or the like.

As an example, there was an emergency meeting right after Nadal's 63 60 loss to Federer, where ********* chief strategist and lead comedian namelessone, claimed the loss as " lack of strategy and short balls", or maybe it was short of strategy and lack of balls.
At any rate, there is no good news to be heard in that thread, or anywhere else.

This post is comedy gold :)
 

Crisstti

Legend
Really laughed at he second bold remark. The one thing about tennis is the fact that the speed of the game makes you more focused than in nearly any other sport. One daft mistake and your out.

I think there is something going on in the Rafa camp. His website hasn't been active for a very long time and the excuse is that it is being restructured which makes me wonder if Rafa isn't restructuring his tennis career - or god forbid- going to give us some kind of shock like he's had enough! I think he may have outgrown Tony and lets hope that's all it is

Let's hope so.

Nadal never defeated Federer 6 times in a row in big finals in the span of 6 or 8 months on ALL surfaces. What Djokovic has managed to do to Nadal this year is MUCH worse than what Nadal did to Federer in his career. No comparison.

That was not what I was talking about.

(I will mention about this though that Rafa defeated Fed in 7 slams).

NO YOU DON'T and therein lies the fallacy!

Yeah, you do. That's why people, as we can see here, like or dislike aspects of players personality. Why they discuss about their motivation, etc, etc.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
(I will mention about this though that Rafa defeated Fed in 7 slams).


yep. and 5 of those were on clay. Meanwhile Fed is undefeated agaisnt rafa on indoor hardcourts. they have never met at USO final. Rafa has been to 2, Fed has been to 6.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Crisstti;6149669]
That was not what I was talking about.

(I will mention about this though that Rafa defeated Fed in 7 slams).


How many of those slam results were played on clay? Answer: 5 were played on clay. Nadal did not start defeating Federer off clay until 2008 when Federer started his decline. Nadal never beat Federer off clay in a slam while Fed was in his prime like Djokovic has done this year to Nadal at two different slams.


Yeah, you do. That's why people, as we can see here, like or dislike aspects of players personality. Why they discuss about their motivation, etc, etc


Huh? What does that have to do with anything? Fans can read about their fave tennis player all day long it does not mean we actually know them. Oh brother!
 

Crisstti

Legend
(I will mention about this though that Rafa defeated Fed in 7 slams).


yep. and 5 of those were on clay. Meanwhile Fed is undefeated agaisnt rafa on indoor hardcourts. they have never met at USO final. Rafa has been to 2, Fed has been to 6.

Lol, we're really drifting here. I originally made the comment in response to someone saying that Rafa's competition had been not all that good in 2010. I agreed, and pointed out that that was the case often with Fed's competition.
cc0509 didn't get what I meant though, and talked about how Novak has "done" to Rafa is "worse" than what Rafa has done to Fed (I have a probelm with the language there, since it's not like a players is doing something evil by winning a match, but well...), because he's beaten Rafa more times in a row. Hence my comment that one could see it another way (Fed's defeats to Rafa having been more on GSs).

:|
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
(I will mention about this though that Rafa defeated Fed in 7 slams).


yep. and 5 of those were on clay. Meanwhile Fed is undefeated agaisnt rafa on indoor hardcourts. they have never met at USO final. Rafa has been to 2, Fed has been to 6.



I just responded by saying the exact same thing and then after I hit the submit reply button I say your response!
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
I originally made the comment in response to someone saying that Rafa's competition had been not all that good in 2010. I agreed, and pointed out that that was the case often with Fed's competition.

How many slams did rafa win in 2010 where he faced someone ranked in the top 5.

I'll wait.

ETA: hell i'll make it easy and back it down to top 10.
 
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N

NadalAgassi

Guest
LOL at Fed fans. Any wins that are on clay (despite that Federer is the best, 2nd, or 3rd best clay courter ever according to ****s), any wins that were before Federer turned the grandpa age of 26 (but beating 35 year old Agassi with a bad back is always amazing, and no shame not getting your first win over Agassi until he is 33 either, while beating 30 year old Sampras makes you the undisputed grass GOAT), and any wins that werent at a slam, all dont count (but his best years are deemed better than other 3 slam or even the Grand Slam years because of non slam tournaments). If only every top player was alloted such ridiculous perimeters, or have things manipulated so perfectly to fit making them look perfect everytime.
 

namelessone

Legend
Outgrown Toni? How does that work? Nadal won a Slam this year. Did Nadal and his crazed fanatics REALLY think that Nadal was going to win Slam after Slam after Slam, racking them up with ease without meeting some form of resistance?
Federer had Nadal...and now Nadal has Djokovic. It's the way sports works. Younger guys come up and knock you off your perch sooner or later. It was going to happen eventually. Why is Nadal so upset with having a rival?

I thought this was hilarious considering Fed's statement, I think it was in AO 2009:"I liked it better when I didn't have a rival".

No one likes having strong rivals, why would they? As much as that player talks diplomatically about the strong rival pushing him to improve as well, the reality is that he is taking some(if not all) titles away from him and that can't be good.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
LOL at Fed fans. Any wins that are on clay (despite that Federer is the best, 2nd, or 3rd best clay courter ever according to ****s), any wins that were before Federer turned the grandpa age of 26 (but beating 35 year old Agassi with a eback is always amazing, and no shame not getting your first win over Agassi until he is 33 either), and any wins that werent at a slam all dont count (but his years are better than other 3 slam or Grand Slam years because of non slam tournaments. If only everyone was alloted such ridiculous perimeters, or have things manipulated so perfectly to fit making them look perfect everytime.

God how many times does it have to be broken down to you, you have been here long enough.

.
Everyone knows Fed is great on clay.

Put it like this. Take two athletes. comparable skill level. now lets say one flourishes in environment A, the other in B. Then lets have them meet up primarily in environment A....wont that skew results a tad?


How hard is that to grasp?
 

Clarky21

Banned
How many slams did rafa win in 2010 where he faced someone ranked in the top 5.

I'll wait.

ETA: hell i'll make it easy and back it down to top 10.



Are you serious? Every slam Nadal won last year he faced players in the top 5. He played Soderling in the final at RG,who I believe was ranked 5th at the time. He played Soderling and Murray back to back at Wimby,and played Possum in the final at the USO.
 

namelessone

Legend
God how many times does it have to be broken down to you, you have been here long enough.

.
Everyone knows Fed is great on clay.

Put it like this. Take two athletes. comparable skill level. now lets say one flourishes in environment A, the other in B. Then lets have them meet up primarily in environment A....wont that skew results a tad?


How hard is that to grasp?

I've already said this to Fed fans a thousand times over but here I go again. Stop justifying(excusing if you will) the h2h with the clay bit. By doing that you making the h2h important(which it's not, it's just a bloody h2h) and thus giving ammo to the *******s that are willing to use against you. There is no law that says that players should meet an equal amount of times on all surfaces. Nadal and Djokovic met 15 times on HC(favors Djoko). So what?
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
I've already said this to Fed fans a thousand times over but here I go again. Stop justifying(excusing if you will) the h2h with the clay bit. By doing that you making the h2h important(which it'sod not, it's just a bloody h2h) and thus giving ammo toss he *******s that are willing to use against you. There is no law that says that players shoulcod meet an equal amount of times on all surfaces. Nadal and Djokovic met 15 times on HC(favors Djoko). So what?

First off lol@your arrogance, as if you are the end all arbiter.

second off , yeah reasonable people know h2h isnt a great barometer of overall career achievment, but if *******s want to bring it up continuously( and they do) myself and others will be happy to disillusion them.

Third of course there is no law, but the facts remain what they are. one athlete was good enough to meet his rival consistently on all surfaces, one wasnt.

4th. Djoker is a bad matchup, regardless of surface. or at least he was this year
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Are you serious? Every slam Nadal won last year he faced players in the top 5. He played Soderling in the final at RG,who I believe was ranked 5th at the time. He played Soderling and Murray back to back at Wimby,and played Possum in the fina..l at the USO.

4 top tenners in 3 slams kinda proves the point..,..

Nadal was very very very good last year. but he was also lucky that some player s were hurt, out of form etc. Not his fault, but he was lucky to a degree.
He was just as good this year, but he had one istumbling block.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
God how many times does it have to be broken down to you, you have been here long enough.

.
Everyone knows Fed is great on clay.

Put it like this. Take two athletes. comparable skill level. now lets say one flourishes in environment A, the other in B. Then lets have them meet up primarily in environment A....wont that skew results a tad?


How hard is that to grasp?

If Federer is at such a disadvantage on clay that the results can be thrown out to get a real perspective then ****s should stop with their BS that he is a top 3 clay courter all time (which in reality he isnt even close to, and any tennis expert in the real World would laugh out loud at the idea of Federer on clay ranking that high; while in reality he is still more than good enough on clay for the results to stand in the overall H2H, especial if indoor results count, making the ****s wrong on both counts).
 

namelessone

Legend
second off , yeah reasonable people know h2h isnt a great barometer of overall career achievment, but if *******s want to bring it up continuously( and they do) myself and others will be happy to disillusion them.

But that's the point, you are not disillusioning them, quite the contrary, you are empowering them each time you explain the h2h via clay meetings. They will ignore it and/or accuse you of excusing Fed's h2h with Nadal and the cycle will start again in another topic.

If you would ignore the topic of h2h anytime someone brings it up, that would hit them. It's the same principle as not feeding trolls.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
If Federer is at such a disadvantage on clay that the results can be thrown out to get a real perspective then ****s should stop with their BS that he is a top 3 clay courter all time (which in reality he isnt even close to, and any tennis expert in the real World would laugh out loud at the idea of Federer on clay ranking that high; while in reality he is more than good enough on clay for the results to stand in the overall H2H, especial if indoor results count).

who said throw out clay results? nobody is saying clay doesnt count, disregard it or other foolishness- the point is this:


*deep breath*


you have to put H2h IN PERSPECTIVE

just like you would if say rafa is the known clay goat, but only played fed on fast hard, indoor hard or grass.
get it now?i

ETA:hell rafa even said himself in a presser when asked about the head to head, he pointed out that alot of their matches were on clay.

sheesh.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
I've already said this to Fed fans a thousand times over but here I go again. Stop justifying(excusing if you will) the h2h with the clay bit. By doing that you making the h2h important(which it's not, it's just a bloody h2h) and thus giving ammo to the *******s that are willing to use against you. There is no law that says that players should meet an equal amount of times on all surfaces. Nadal and Djokovic met 15 times on HC(favors Djoko). So what?

Very true. If the H2H wasnt important then Federer fanatics would not feel the need to continously make excuses about it. It doesnt mean Nadal is greater than Federer of course, what it means to Federer relative to other GOAT candidates (eg- Laver, Sampras, Gonzales) who never were owned by anyone in H2H is another topic altogether. However Nadal owning the matchup with Federer is an irrefutable fact, and Federer fanatics by their continous whining and excuse making over this fact are the ones building up the meaning of the H2H more than anyone else.
 

Crisstti

Legend
4 top tenners in 3 slams kinda proves the point..,..

Nadal was very very very good last year. but he was also lucky that some player s were hurt, out of form etc. Not his fault, but he was lucky to a degree.
He was just as good this year, but he had one istumbling block.

I agreed about that. And said the case was similar for Fed for years. That was all.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
But that's the point, you are not disillusioning them, quite the contrary, you are empowering them each time you explain the h2h via clay meetings. They will ignore it and/or accuse you of excusing Fed's h2h with Nadal and the cycle will start again in another topic.

If you would ignore the topic of h2h anytime someone brings it up, that would hit them. It's the same principle as not feeding trolls.

with that, u have a valid point.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
who said throw out clay results? nobody is saying clay doesnt count, disregard it or other foolishness- the point is this:


*deep breath*


you have to put H2h IN PERSPECTIVE

just like you would if say rafa is the known clay goat, but only played fed on clay 3-4 times because fed wasnt good enough to get to the final, and all their other matches were on indoor hard and fast hard and grass.

get it now?


OK here is the perspective if you wish. Federer does not own Nadal on ANY major surface, the way Nadal owns Federer on clay. That is unless you want to declare indoors a surface, in which case Nadal now owns Federer on two surfaces- clay and outdoor hard courts (where he is 4-1). On grass and hard courts Federer barely leads the H2H, and on clay he is killed in the H2H. In grand slams, he is 0-5 on clay, yet 2-2 on other surfaces. So factoring in all surfaces evenly, the overall result is still ownage since Federer does not come close to compensating the huge clay gap anywhere else.

No matter how one analyzes it Nadal clearly owns the overall H2H aspect between the two

The clay argument being used so much also shows even Federer fans know their own "Roger is right up with Nadal and Borg on clay and maybe the clay GOAT, or atleast close to it" is complete BS. Federer is barely a top 10 clay courter in the Open Era (not of all time) at best, and even his fans know it, and prove as much by their own arguments.
 
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SLD76

G.O.A.T.
OK here is the perspective if you wish. Federer does not own Nadal on ANY major surface, the way Nadal owns Federer on clay. That is unless you want to declare indoors a surface, in which case Nadal now owns Federer on two surfaces- clay and outdoor hard courts (where he is 4-1). On grass and hard courts Federer barely leads the H2H, and on clay he is killed in the H2H. In grand slams, he is 0-5 on clay, yet 2-2 on other surfaces. So factoring in all surfaces evenly, the overall result is still ownage since Federer does not come close to compensating the huge clay gap anywhere else.

No matter how one analyzes it Nadal clearly owns the overall H2H aspect between the two

The clay argument being used so much also shows even Federer fans know their own "Roger is right up with Nadal and Borg on clay and maybe the clay GOAT, or atleast close to it" is complete BS. Fededrer is barely a top 10 clay courter in the Open Era (not of all time) at best, and even his fans know it, and prove as much by their own arguments.


and the guy railing about fed fans dismissing clay stats is quick to dismiss and downplay indoor hard. LMAO!
 
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TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
But that's the point, you are not disillusioning them, quite the contrary, you are empowering them each time you explain the h2h via clay meetings. They will ignore it and/or accuse you of excusing Fed's h2h with Nadal and the cycle will start again in another topic.

If you would ignore the topic of h2h anytime someone brings it up, that would hit them. It's the same principle as not feeding trolls.

Yeah, but it's so annoying that it's hard for some members to ignore. Same for the weak competition theory. It's getting so ridiculous.
 
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aphex

Banned
But that's the point, you are not disillusioning them, quite the contrary, you are empowering them each time you explain the h2h via clay meetings. They will ignore it and/or accuse you of excusing Fed's h2h with Nadal and the cycle will start again in another topic.

If you would ignore the topic of h2h anytime someone brings it up, that would hit them. It's the same principle as not feeding trolls.

Very true. If the H2H wasnt important then Federer fanatics would not feel the need to continously make excuses about it. It doesnt mean Nadal is greater than Federer of course, what it means to Federer relative to other GOAT candidates (eg- Laver, Sampras, Gonzales) who never were owned by anyone in H2H is another topic altogether. However Nadal owning the matchup with Federer is an irrefutable fact, and Federer fanatics by their continous whining and excuse making over this fact are the ones building up the meaning of the H2H more than anyone else.

Lol...dumb davey can't even figure out namelessone was talking about morons like himself:)
 

namelessone

Legend
Yeah, but it's so annoying that it's hard for some members ignore. Same for the weak competition theory. It's getting so ridiculous.

This and the h2h bits are DEAD END discussions. Both sides will make THE SAME arguments they have made dozens of times before, maybe throw some heavy words around, disagree in the end and back off... till the next thread appears. If you are a old member I'd wager you've had the discussion about weak eras in at least 20-30 threads.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
This and the h2h bits are DEAD END discussions. Both sides will make THE SAME arguments they have made dozens of times before, maybe throw some heavy words around, disagree in the end and back off... till the next thread appears. If you are a old member I'd wager you've had the discussion about weak eras in at least 20-30 threads.

and now back to discussing how toni is a dictator
 

Lsmkenpo

Hall of Fame
Nadal is wrong he will always need to listen to Uncle Toni, if it wasn't for Toni, Nadal would just be a weird man that lives with his parents.

23m1xro.jpg
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
If only every top player was alloted such ridiculous perimeters, or have things manipulated so perfectly to fit making them look perfect everytime.

Oh but the thing is every top player does get the same treatment from his fans that Fed gets in that regard, fans of say Sampras or Nadal are really no different.

Let's look at Nadal, he was a baby(basically meaning not even in his prime) all the way up until 2008, then got injured in 2009(so we can throw out any wins anyone had against him that whole season), had his best year ever in 2010 and suddenly now he's too old in 2011, I mean just lol.

So basically a number of Nadal fans argue that we should squeeze both Nadal's prime and peak (two terms which should be separately defined not lumped together) into middle of 2008, beginning of 2009 and 2010 middle to the end(only that's the "real" non baby-non old- non injured Nadal), honestly that's the shortest prime I've ever seen(even Hewitt and Courier lasted longer). I mean in another thread you said Fed's decline was overblown but honestly the amount of whining Clarky,Nameless,TennisFan3,MN etc. did about Nadal's game this year one would really get the feeling reading their posts that Nadal didn't string 3 match wins in a row this year while in reality the guy reached 3 slam finals for only the 2nd time in his career and had overall a far better year than Fed's 2008 or 2010(not to mention 2011).

And don't get me even started on Sampras fans and their complete dismissal of the USO F beatings he took at the hand of weak era clowns like Hewitt and Safin (due to the old age of course) but using Fed's losses this year(and last) as the undenuiable proof that Fed can't handle new era tough players and that he's "overrated".

And while I consider their(Fed-Sampras) 2001 Wimbledon encounter overrated for various reasons, Petey fans always seem to somehow neglect the fact that Fed was even further off his prime than Pete was at that point, not to mention that they like to hail 1990 USO Pete's victory over Lendl as as some monumental achievement.

If Federer is at such a disadvantage on clay that the results can be thrown out to get a real perspective then ****s should stop with their BS that he is a top 3 clay courter all time (which in reality he isnt even close to, and any tennis expert in the real World would laugh out loud at the idea of Federer on clay ranking that high; while in reality he is still more than good enough on clay for the results to stand in the overall H2H, especial if indoor results count, making the ****s wrong on both counts).

Honestly I don't know how many Fed fans claim that but while it is hilarious I wouldn't put it past tennis experts to make that (or similar) claim in the future, I just don't hold them in high regard due to their tendency to act like hype jobs and make some big loud statements without properly thinking about the topic.

Here's an expert panel last year for example :

http://www.lequipe.fr/Tennis/breves2010/20100523_205342_le-jury-de-l-equipe-vote-nadal.html

Notice that Fed is about 6-7th overall when you compile the results from individual lists, and that for example Vilas is ahead of Laver, Muster, Rosewall and Bruguera even though the guy was Borg's plaything on clay to a higher degree than Fed was Nadal's.

I wouldn't use tennis experts as any sort of standard personally. I think Fed is around the same level on clay as say Agassi (though Fed was more consistent), I'd probably put him at the bottom of top 10 or early mid top 20.
 
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Clarky21

Banned
Nadal is wrong he will always need to listen to Uncle Toni, if it wasn't for Toni, Nadal would just be a weird man that lives with his parents.

23m1xro.jpg



Here we go again with the Nadal is "special" comments with no explanation as to why you think so. Maybe he is autistic or whatever it is you say he is. I would just like to know how it is you came to that conclusion.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Here we go again with the Nadal is "special" comments with no explanation as to why you think so. Maybe he is autistic or whatever it is you say he is. I would just like to know how it is you came to that conclusion.

i think its more a svengali reference.
 

namelessone

Legend
Here we go again with the Nadal is "special" comments with no explanation as to why you think so. Maybe he is autistic or whatever it is you say he is. I would just like to know how it is you came to that conclusion.

Nadal is not autistic. Autism is a serious condition.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Nadal never defeated Federer 6 times in a row in big finals in the span of 6 or 8 months on ALL surfaces. What Djokovic has managed to do to Nadal this year is MUCH worse than what Nadal did to Federer in his career. No comparison.

Federer's losses to Nadal in 2008 in Monte Carlo, Hamburg, Roland Garros, Wimbledon...and then the AO in 2009, regardless of time/space between events, was extremely upsetting to Federer. Why do you think he broke down at the AO? It was all too much for him to lose to the same guy again and again who consistently denied him so many titles. And the losses all happened in 3 different Slams (3 different surfaces) in a span of 9 or so months. It was indeed damaging to Federer.
 

Lsmkenpo

Hall of Fame
Nadal has a lot of the traits of a high functioning savant, reading his biography has reinforced the notion in my mind.

You can pretty much read between the lines of that book and know his family doesn't consider him normal.
 

Lsmkenpo

Hall of Fame
I find it hard to believe Toni Nadal doesn't know what Rafa needs to do to play better.

Nadal has made some disparaging statements about Uncle Toni over the past year, almost as if he resents the attention Uncle Toni has received for developing him over the years.

Perhaps the real problem is Nadal isn't listening enough to Uncle Toni anymore.
 

aphex

Banned
Nadal is wrong he will always need to listen to Uncle Toni, if it wasn't for Toni, Nadal would just be a weird man that lives with his parents.

23m1xro.jpg

Wasn't Hoffman some sort of mathematics genius in that movie?

I think I Am Ralph is a more suitable title...
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Federer's losses to Nadal in 2008 in Monte Carlo, Hamburg, Roland Garros, Wimbledon...and then the AO in 2009, regardless of time/space between events, was extremely upsetting to Federer. Why do you think he broke down at the AO? It was all too much for him to lose to the same guy again and again who consistently denied him so many titles. And the losses all happened in 3 different Slams (3 different surfaces) in a span of 9 or so months. It was indeed damaging to Federer.

You cut off the second part of my sentence where I said that Nadal started to defeat Federer in slams off clay only in 2008 while Federer had started his decline and was not in his prime any longer. The losses were more spread out between Federer and Nadal in 2008-2009 than Nadal's losses to Djokovic. I also said that Federer never lost 6 times in a row in major finals during his prime or outside of his prime to Nadal the way Nadal has to Djokovic.

I have no doubt that Federer's losses to Nadal were damaging to Federer and it was 99.9% a mental thing.
 
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