Soft Poly's that are easy on the arm
- Thread starter Rob1
- Start date
sportsfan1
Legend
Since I don't know very much about strings, looking for a relative scale to understand - how would you compare to say a multi/syn guy? It it close or far off?
finalfantasy7
Semi-Pro
Beast xp, out of the ones I've tried
Tennisisthebest
New User
Luxilon big banger xp is pretty good
kabob
Hall of Fame
The softest string out there by the Racket Sports Industry after natural gut, surprisingly, is a polyester multi, Wilson NXT Control.
http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2012/01/playtest_wilson_nxt_control.html
I used to string it in hybrid with gut (NXT-C mains/gut crosses) but the when the gut wore a little and got rough, it'd snap the NXT pretty quickly. I now play with a full NXT Control setup.
http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2012/01/playtest_wilson_nxt_control.html
I used to string it in hybrid with gut (NXT-C mains/gut crosses) but the when the gut wore a little and got rough, it'd snap the NXT pretty quickly. I now play with a full NXT Control setup.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
NXT control is not a poly.
Answer to SportsFan
Multi's or syn are suppose to be soft and have more power.
I have found some syn to be stiff and have no power.
The polys are great for control and spin whether you do full bed or
hybrid.
The multi's are good and inexpensie way for hybriding with ploy to
get max playbalility with your racquet.
I still like Gut to hybrid with as does the Pro's like.
Be careful with stiff polys as it can get TE then.
Just experiment and see what you like.
Multi's or syn are suppose to be soft and have more power.
I have found some syn to be stiff and have no power.
The polys are great for control and spin whether you do full bed or
hybrid.
The multi's are good and inexpensie way for hybriding with ploy to
get max playbalility with your racquet.
I still like Gut to hybrid with as does the Pro's like.
Be careful with stiff polys as it can get TE then.
Just experiment and see what you like.
I've tried full beds of...
Prince Beast XP in my AeroPro and found it very arm friendly...
TF Code Black in my AeroPro and found it very arm friendly...
Head Sonic Pro in my Microgel Extreme MP and found it playable but i had some shoulder and elbow pain...
I prefer Code Black out of the three strings for playability, it was stiff to begin with but after an hour of hitting it softened up and became extremely comfortable. I had it strung at 58lbs.
Prince Beast XP in my AeroPro and found it very arm friendly...
TF Code Black in my AeroPro and found it very arm friendly...
Head Sonic Pro in my Microgel Extreme MP and found it playable but i had some shoulder and elbow pain...
I prefer Code Black out of the three strings for playability, it was stiff to begin with but after an hour of hitting it softened up and became extremely comfortable. I had it strung at 58lbs.
maxpotapov
Hall of Fame
For the first 2-3 hours many latest generation polys will be easy on the arm. For the next 5-7 hours none of them will.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
No it is not, you think because it says polyester and nylon fibers in a bed of polyurethane that makes it a poly string?
Sorry bud but you are completely wrong on this, poly string is a solid piece of plastic, there is no nylon in a poly string. Nxt control is a multi fiber string, notice how there a combination of materials and layers in it, which immediately disqualifies it from being a poly string.
Here is the details on NXT control below please read the composition section. Notice how it starts with Multifilament Xycro micro fibers and then lists polyester and nylon fibers. This automatically makes it a multi not a poly. When they talk about it does not have the shock of monofilament polyester that is why because it is not a mono string, polys are mono which means one solid string.
Featuring polyester and nylon fibers in a bed of polyurethane, NXT Control provides all the benefits of a great hybrid. Offering the perfect balance between comfort and control, this one is perfect for comfort seekers who want to keep more balls in play. It's also great for power players who want more control but who don't want the impact shock that comes with monofilament polyester. A must try for players seeking an arm friendly control string.
Gauge: 16 / 1.32mm
Length: 40 feet / 12.2m
Composition: Multifilament Xycro Micro fibers with polyester and nylon fibers
Color: Natural
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Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Playing with NXT Control in a Yonex 89T demo and I am very suprised how well this string plays. Feels like a multi but I have the same control as a poly. The strings are new so I can't comment on the durability. I am not saying it is a poly but I do see some poly characteristics in its playability. I normally cant hit extreme crosscourt angles with multis but NXT Control gets the job done (atleast when they are fresh).
It's both. You're both arguing over nothing.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/JimandKim/scan0003-1.jpg
http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2012/01/playtest_wilson_nxt_control.html
No one cares.
Very true. You cant take something that contains polyurethane, and say it is not polyurethane.
*correction, meant to say polyester
tlm
G.O.A.T.
All the popular poly strings that are used are a solid piece of plastic. Please show me other poly strings that have bundles of different materials like the picture of the nxt control string which is a multi, you know multi as in multiple bundles of different materials exactly the opposite of a poly string!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Muppet
Legend
You've uncovered a very true point. NXT is a polyurethane multi and NXT Control is a polyester multi, although not in the same way.
Not that I care, but since you asked.....
- The filaments are bundles of polyester strands.
- Each bundle of strands is encased in high-density polyurethane (PU HD).
- Multiple bundles are used to construct the string itself, held together with PU HD.
- Finally, it is coated with SPL (Silicium Pyrogene Lubritec)
NXT control is a multi-filament since it's composed of...wait for it...multiple filaments. Multiple, independent filaments are extruded independently and then wrapped around one another and coated with another material. There are seven independent filaments in this case: four poly and three nylon.
Some of the strands are polyester, some are nylon.
Therefore, the construction is multi-filament and some are poly and some are nylon.
The construction matters most since multi-filaments and mono-filaments play. Very differently.
What's throwing people off is that traditionally polyesters have been monofilaments (there are exceptions) while nylons have usually been multi-filaments.
Essentially, using polyester for a few of the strands will strengthen the string while suspending the multiple filaments in polyeurathane softens the entire construct.
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mikeler
Moderator
Sander001
Hall of Fame
I'm going to order some Pro Line II 17L to see how I like it. FWIW, I'm a long time Competition user and I got tennis elbow from one single session when I over did it. First time it's happened in my 20yrs of tennis. It's taken almost 2yrs to recover but now that I have, I'm still using Competition and have had not even a hint of a relapse.
2¢.
BTW, does anybody use the TW University string database thing? I think it's an absolutely awesome tool and I always find it to be accurate. A long time ago, there was a very similar tool on a different site and that was also extremely helpful. I wonder if TW bought the rights to it and appropriated it for the TW site or something.
anubis
Hall of Fame
I've found that it has less to do with the string and more to do with the racquet. I've been stringing a bunch of poly in my racquets of late and have had no arm issues. But my racquet is soft, 59-62 stiffness.
When I used PDGTs, it didn't matter if it was poly or multi -- I had arm issues either way.
So I suggest looking up the stiffness of your racquet. If its a stiff racquet, then any poly is probably not right for you regardless if it's the "softest" poly out there.
When I used PDGTs, it didn't matter if it was poly or multi -- I had arm issues either way.
So I suggest looking up the stiffness of your racquet. If its a stiff racquet, then any poly is probably not right for you regardless if it's the "softest" poly out there.
kabob
Hall of Fame
I'm not arguing and I agree with your post that it's both. Tell this "tlm" character to maybe expand his narrow definitions and take that stick out of his *** with the tone of his posts
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I'm not arguing and I agree with your post that it's both. Tell this "tlm" character to maybe expand his narrow definitions and take that stick out of his *** with the tone of his posts
You and torres are the ones that have no idea of what you are talking about. You have no clue if you think that nxt control is a poly string. Anyone that knows anything about strings will tell you the same thing, so go ahead and believe whatever you want but you are wrong.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
JT_2eighty
Hall of Fame
Other great soft monofilament co-polys that I've used with success to my arm:
Weisscannon Mosquito Bite
Pro Supex Big Ace Micro
Polystar Energy
Polystar Turbo (textured version of Energy)
Weisscannon Mosquito Bite
Pro Supex Big Ace Micro
Polystar Energy
Polystar Turbo (textured version of Energy)
ChicagoJack
Hall of Fame
Torres,
I completely agree. Even at 16g it's Dunlop Black Widow by a country mile. No contest at all. Been playing with the 18 gauge at 54 lbs in a Donnay Pro One, and its pretty effing sweet. Soft or no soft, I prefer it performance wise to my last textured poly fave, BHBR. I know you aren't big on lab testing, but in this case, the available test results agree with you. I've provided a cross section of the strings mentioned in this thread, the whole enchilada can be reconstructed here. Thought I'd share with the thread fwiw. BTW... how's your achilles tendon holding up?
-Jack
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maxpotapov
Hall of Fame
I liked Black Widow a lot, it is very arm friendly and performs very good, but I would not use it more than 2-3 hitting sessions. Like with any other poly it loses elasticity and then it does not matter any more if it less stiff than competition. On the other hand, I heard that much more expensive Luxilon dies even faster, such was my experience with Luxilon Adrenaline.
M
Mrsbrownsboys
Guest
Yonex poly tour pro is a unique feeling string...very very good on the arm if you can stand the yellow colur
Don't be stupid.
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Sander001
Hall of Fame
Ah good ol' Cyberflash, the forgotten string of yesteryear. Topspin Cyberflash 17L is even softer, measuring 158.3lbs in stiffness. Used to be pretty popular, I wonder if anybody still plays with it.Torres,
I completely agree. Even at 16g it's Dunlop Black Widow by a country mile. No contest at all. Been playing with the 18 gauge at 54 lbs in a Donnay Pro One, and its pretty effing sweet. Soft or no soft, I prefer it performance wise to my last textured poly fave, BHBR. I know you aren't big on lab testing, but in this case, the available test results agree with you. I've provided a cross section of the strings mentioned in this thread, the whole enchilada can be reconstructed here. Thought I'd share with the thread fwiw. BTW... how's your achilles tendon holding up?
-Jack
ChicagoJack
Hall of Fame
Hi Sander,
Yeah cool thanks for the info, 17L Cyberflash does look pretty decent. I get the same 158.3., ranked 46th of all stringbeds. But, the smaller gauges are always softer. To keep a level playing field, apples to apples comparison, I've only cross reffed and posted 16g. Cyberflash 16 comes in at #224, 199.5 lbs stiffness, quite a big gap btwn Black Widow 16 at #64 and 164 lbs stiffness. I know this is just lab data, not the court, but its just an observable fact that of all the strings tested (and there are quite a few not not tested) Black Widow is the softest mono poly.
Having said that I always take this lab test stuff with a grain of salt, as most people do. For instance you'll notice that Black Widow shares the same airspace as TF x-1 Bi Phase 16 at the 80th spot. That's just effing goofy. String properties are complex, not easily nailed down as much as we try to figure out this stuff.
Jack
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Torres,
I completely agree. Even at 16g it's Dunlop Black Widow by a country mile. No contest at all. Been playing with the 18 gauge at 54 lbs in a Donnay Pro One, and its pretty effing sweet. Soft or no soft, I prefer it performance wise to my last textured poly fave, BHBR. I know you aren't big on lab testing, but in this case, the available test results agree with you. I've provided a cross section of the strings mentioned in this thread, the whole enchilada can be reconstructed here. Thought I'd share with the thread fwiw. BTW... how's your achilles tendon holding up?
-Jack
Sorry to bring back up this slightly dated thread.
But it seems that Dunlop Black Widow has been retested by TW University, and different numbers are showing with the new stiffness rating much higher than before.
With medium tension and medium swing speed, I am getting the stiffness of 220 for the 16 gauge.
Even on the arm-friendliness ranking, Black Widow seems to have gone down quite a bit with stiffness rated at 193.
Does anyone know whether Black Widow has been reformulated recently? Or how else to interpret this change?
maxpotapov
Hall of Fame
This is very interesting, thanks!
Sander001
Hall of Fame
In your face, ChicagoJack! JK, I appreciate the info and as you say it's all just lab testing anyway.
Astonishingly, MSV Focus Hex 17L has gone from a very soft 208 to an armbreaking 242 now! WHOA
But now its total tension loss is an amazingly low 15lbs whereas before it was 27lbs.
And RPM Blast is now showing tension loss of only 10.8lbs, which is like natural gut territory.
[For reference, I always use high tension and fast swing speed.]
I wonder if the person or people in charge could shed some light on what the story is.
Good eye! I copied the TWU string database some time ago for my own reference and notes now I am seeing some differences. Competition 1.20 is 3lbs softer on the current chart for example.
Astonishingly, MSV Focus Hex 17L has gone from a very soft 208 to an armbreaking 242 now! WHOA
But now its total tension loss is an amazingly low 15lbs whereas before it was 27lbs.
And RPM Blast is now showing tension loss of only 10.8lbs, which is like natural gut territory.
[For reference, I always use high tension and fast swing speed.]
I wonder if the person or people in charge could shed some light on what the story is.
ChicagoJack
Hall of Fame
Sander - Yeah man, looks like The TW Professor just threw me under the bus! Ha Ha.
Andrew - Cool, thanks for the email heads up to bring me back here. That's really weird. I've no clue what the deal is on the data change. Just for a cross reference I checked the other source for this kind of stuff, USRSA / RSI Magazine. Found it in the Non-Member Freebie section, so I'm comfy re-posting here. Just a side note: Head FXP Tour is a multifilament (construction) poly (material) string.
http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2012/01/string_selector_2012.html
-Jack
Andrew - Cool, thanks for the email heads up to bring me back here. That's really weird. I've no clue what the deal is on the data change. Just for a cross reference I checked the other source for this kind of stuff, USRSA / RSI Magazine. Found it in the Non-Member Freebie section, so I'm comfy re-posting here. Just a side note: Head FXP Tour is a multifilament (construction) poly (material) string.
http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2012/01/string_selector_2012.html
-Jack
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Lilguy1456
Semi-Pro
I think the NXt control debate can be settled by answering this:
If you eat a donut that's coated in ****, are you eating a donut or eating ****?
If you eat a donut that's coated in ****, are you eating a donut or eating ****?
This is why I don't treat lab data as an absolute. You change the methodology or the testing equipment, and you'll get different results. You also need to bear in mind that TW data often throws up quite a few anomalies. In the 'spin potential' section for example, the number data suggests (wrongly) that various synthetic guts produce more spin potential than numerous well known polys including Alu Rough, BHBR etc. Anyone who's played with those strings know that that's simply not the case.
Black Widow is a very comfortable, soft, super arm friendly poly. That's all I can say. It also plays and performs well in addition to arm comfort.
And lets not forget that TW's Andy Gerst had to up the tension noticeably before he got a tension that he preferred. You simply wouldn't do that if it was a stiff poly. And that's real world testing - which is what we're really interested in - and his comments about string comfort, super soft, super comfortbale, a 'poly for the people' etc. And let's not forget that this is a guy who was rated around ATP#1400 last year - he's no mickey mouse player we're talking about here.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/productvideo.html?pcode=DBW17
Data has its place, but in this context it should be treated a guide for a wise, rather than an absolute given the potential for experimental bias, methodological weakness etc.
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You just *know* I'll agree with this. I've been touting PS Energy for a while around here. I can't get enough of the stuff. It's a wonder-string. Soft, comfortable, ridiculous spin, good power, but offers incredible feel. I can honestly say my touch shots are better than they've ever been, even with natural gut. And it never, EVER, hurts my arm/wrist/shoulder/elbow.
