When Your Doubles Partner Makes a Bad Line Call

tennistim

Rookie
Happened to me last night. My partner called a ball out that was in. It was a big point in a tie-breaker and I wish I had said something straight away. In fact nobody said anything, but I think we all knew that it was in. It threw my concentration and we lost the tie-break.

Then in the next set the opposition got revenge by calling out some of my serves that were in.

Really ruins the spirit of the game when this happens.

I am just trying to figure out how to avoid this happening again. I think I need to overrule my partners bad calls straight away - no discussion. Otherwise it creates a much bigger problem....
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
You need to pull him aside, tell him the call was definitely wrong, and give hiim the opportunity to reverse it himself first. If he still refuses, then change it yourself. Don't cheat.
 

Maui19

Hall of Fame
I've got a partner that makes bad calls from time to time. I let them go for a while, now I overrule. He used to argue with me about them, now he just goes with my overrule. You can't let that stuff go.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Happened to me last night. My partner called a ball out that was in. It was a big point in a tie-breaker and I wish I had said something straight away. In fact nobody said anything, but I think we all knew that it was in. It threw my concentration and we lost the tie-break.

Then in the next set the opposition got revenge by calling out some of my serves that were in.

Really ruins the spirit of the game when this happens.

I am just trying to figure out how to avoid this happening again. I think I need to overrule my partners bad calls straight away - no discussion. Otherwise it creates a much bigger problem....

Usually when this happens your opponents will give you a look or say something to indicate it was a bad call. At that point just look at your partner and tell him "thought it was in" if he still insists it was out, just say "okay" and go with her/his call. A reasonable person will usually agree with you and change the call. Replaying the point is usually not a good idea as it just adds insult to injury, depending on who wins the point. At least you've spoken up, without disrupting you're partner
 

spot

Hall of Fame
Usually when this happens your opponents will give you a look or say something to indicate it was a bad call. At that point just look at your partner and tell him "thought it was in"

Once you say that- the point automatically goes to the other team. To still take the point after that is cheating.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Once you say that- the point automatically goes to the other team. To still take the point after that is cheating.

That's why you say "I thought it was in" it's quite possible that you're partner is right and you're wrong. So, if he still insists he's right maybe he had a better look at the ball. I'm also assuming that no one is trying to cheat, it's just two different looks at a ball. If the call is changed immediately and your partner doesn't agree, you've then accused (at least tacitly) him/her of cheating, not good for you and your partner. If you're partner willingly changes it to an "in" call then all should be fine.
 

tenniscasey

Semi-Pro
If it was clearly in and you had a good sight line, you should have overruled immediately. If your partner gets mad at you for it, you should play out the match then find another doubles partner.

Last thing you want for yourself is to develop a reputation for hooking, even if it's only by association.
 

Mauvaise

Rookie
If it was clearly in and you had a good sight line, you should have overruled immediately. If your partner gets mad at you for it, you should play out the match then find another doubles partner.

Last thing you want for yourself is to develop a reputation for hooking, even if it's only by association.

Exactly. I've overruled my partners and had them overrule me and no one (thankfully) has ever got in a tizzy over it.

It probably helps that I make a point before the match starts (if I'm with a new partner) of specifically telling them I want them to overrule any bad calls I happen to make and I'll do the same.
 

TeflonTom

Banned
if ur partner hooks, find a new partner

but u dont ever, ever overrule ur partner. u dont break solidarity mid match
 

TeflonTom

Banned
if ur partner is honestly mistaken then tell him n let him correct his own call

if he is deliberately hookin u dont break rank. u tell him in private it aint on, and if he doesnt stop hooking then u simply dont play with him any more

itt: tennis players dont understand team sport
 

jonnythan

Professional
if ur partner is honestly mistaken then tell him n let him correct his own call

if he is deliberately hookin u dont break rank. u tell him in private it aint on, and if he doesnt stop hooking then u simply dont play with him any more

itt: tennis players dont understand team sport

ITT: TeflonTom cares more about winning than the integrity of the game and expects everyone to play the same way he does.

No one on my team plays that way, and I don't play that way.
 

TeflonTom

Banned
wrong. i dont give a crap about winnin compared to integrity of the game. i dont hook and i dont play with ppl who hook

good teams solve their disagreements in the locker room. period. u are showing urself up as a poor team player if u disagree with a teammate durin a match in front of ur opponents

when lookin 4 potential partners i will not hold it against someone if they have had the misfortune 2 be paired with a hooker in the past. i will hold it against someone if they dont understand what bein a team player means
 

tenniscasey

Semi-Pro
wrong. i dont give a crap about winnin compared to integrity of the game. i dont hook and i dont play with ppl who hook

good teams solve their disagreements in the locker room. period. u are showing urself up as a poor team player if u disagree with a teammate durin a match in front of ur opponents

when lookin 4 potential partners i will not hold it against someone if they have had the misfortune 2 be paired with a hooker in the past. i will hold it against someone if they dont understand what bein a team player means

It's clear you value your relationship with your partner more than the integrity of the game. Interesting choice; I hope I never play against or with you.
 
...it's just two different looks at a ball.

Yes, by the player who has double-vision. I made a "bad" call in favor of my opponents yesterday. The serve was one inch out, it was so close and it was meaningless (to me) practice-rec tennis. I apologized to my partner and said I couldn't get the words out fast enough, but in reality I just didn't want to make a call that close--I SHOULD HAVE!--but I chickened out. The ass-hat server--and trust me, he IS an ass-hat, I know from decades of playing with him, (thankfully not too regularly), had the chutzpah to say it looked way in to him--right--to him standing "78" feet away. The ball left a mark that I circled. The code says everyone is supposed to help with the calls, even the opponents. You know your NOT playing with friends or fair people when they don't help with a call that you KNOW they had a good look at down the line.
 

TeflonTom

Banned
It's clear you value your relationship with your partner more than the integrity of the game. Interesting choice; I hope I never play against or with you.
no. i value my reputation as a team player. i couldnt give a ***** about a partner who hooks, but i dont want my future partners 2 think i am the kind o person who may suddenly decide not 2 have his back in the middle of a match if it doesnt suit me

integrity o the game has nothin 2 do with it. i aint the one hooking. my partner is a big boy and he can take responsibility 4 his own antics
 
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jonnythan

Professional
no. i value my reputation as a team player. i couldnt give a ***** about a partner who hooks, but i dont want my future partners 2 think i am the kind o person who may suddenly decide not 2 have his back in the middle of a match if it doesnt suit me

integrity o the game has nothin 2 do with it. i aint the one hooking. my partner is a big boy and he can take responsibility 4 his own antics

I don't want anyone to "have my back" by not correcting a bad call on the court.

You seem to think that keeping your mouth shut is in some way defending your partner. That's silly. You're not an LG keeping a blitzing safety from leveling your quarterback. You're playing tennis. Getting the call right is much more important than false, silly notions of "having your parnter's back."
 

dblsonly

New User
no. i value my reputation as a team player. i couldnt give a ***** about a partner who hooks, but i dont want my future partners 2 think i am the kind o person who may suddenly decide not 2 have his back in the middle of a match if it doesnt suit me

integrity o the game has nothin 2 do with it. i aint the one hooking. my partner is a big boy and he can take responsibility 4 his own antics

TeflonTom, when you knowingly allow an incorrect call to stand, you are the one hooking! You just don't like to be told this. You are every bit as much a cheater as the person who made the initial wrong call. You can take responsibility for your partners actions by making the right call. Very simply, you are a cheater yourself.
 

TeflonTom

Banned
see, tennis players dont understand team sport

team trust is sacrosanct. breaking with ur partner mid-competition destroys trust. and it destroys ur reputation as a team player

havin a blue with ur partner on court isnt gonna stop him hooking. but it is gonna stop ppl trusting u as a team player. suddenly u are that guy who sells out his partner whenever he disagrees with him

i am all for respectin the integrity o the game but there are ways u do these things and ways u dont
 

TeflonTom

Banned
TeflonTom, when you knowingly allow an incorrect call to stand, you are the one hooking! You just don't like to be told this. You are every bit as much a cheater as the person who made the initial wrong call. You can take responsibility for your partners actions by making the right call. Very simply, you are a cheater yourself.
no, i am not the one hooking. WE are the ones hooking. there is no i in team, as the adage says

this is my whole point. u are a team. u stand together, and u fall together. u act as one unit, in concert. it is the fundamental rule of team sport

if my teammate hooks, he is an agent of our team in doin so. and we will deal with it as a team. not by fallin apart on court

u guys need 2 play some team sports
 

tenniscasey

Semi-Pro
no, i am not the one hooking. WE are the ones hooking. there is no i in team, as the adage says

this is my whole point. u are a team. u stand together, and u fall together. u act as one unit, in concert. it is the fundamental rule of team sport

if my teammate hooks, he is an agent of our team in doin so. and we will deal with it as a team. not by fallin apart on court

u guys need 2 play some team sports

Wow. Honest question: Just wow.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Partners’ disagreement on calls. If one partner calls the ball out and the
other partner sees the ball good, the ball is good. It is more important to give
opponents the benefit of the doubt than to avoid possibly hurting a partner’s
feelings. The tactful way to achieve the desired result is to tell a partner quietly of
the mistake and then let the partner concede the point.


The above is from rule 14 of USTA Rule book, which begrudgeonly I read from time to time. The only thing I would add to this is if your partner has a better angle to see the ball, then let him make the call and stand by him. "Mum is the word" This is assuming that he is being honest and not trying to hook anyone.
 

tenniscasey

Semi-Pro
Partners’ disagreement on calls. If one partner calls the ball out and the
other partner sees the ball good, the ball is good. It is more important to give
opponents the benefit of the doubt than to avoid possibly hurting a partner’s
feelings. The tactful way to achieve the desired result is to tell a partner quietly of
the mistake and then let the partner concede the point.


The above is from rule 14 of USTA Rule book, which begrudgeonly I read from time to time. The only thing I would add to this is if your partner has a better angle to see the ball, then let him make the call and stand by him. "Mum is the word" This is assuming that he is being honest and not trying to hook anyone.

Thanks for pulling this up. Of course there's a difference between not seeing a call and knowingly letting your partner cheat, as Teflon would do.
 
like i said, tennis players: no conceptual understandin of 'team'

Basketball, football, baseball, Davis Cup "team sports"--rec tennis, nah--no one's paying me to continue playing with a cheater. In delicate social situations sometimes you can dump a give back point into the net or the fence to even out the score. But, if I'm playing with a blind guy or an obvious cheater, I'm not his team-mate for long and I don't care who in the tennis universe knows it and doesn't invite me onto their "team" because I'm not a "team player cheating condoner enabler"--I guess I'll just find an honest wall or garage door to play with.
 

TeflonTom

Banned
sigh. not bout lettin ur partner cheat. if u are a good team player u are not an independent agent. the bond of the team precludes it

usta rules r irrelevant. of course they r gonna say that. but a team cant function if they dont stick together

by all means, trash a cheater, refuse 2 play with him. but dont do it on the court. teams solve problems in locker rooms
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
I think it is interesting that there are so many people who haven't put teflon in their ignore list yet. I have a feeling he'll be dropped into a few more after this thread though.
 

TeflonTom

Banned
I think it is interesting that there are so many people who haven't put teflon in their ignore list yet. I have a feeling he'll be dropped into a few more after this thread though.
its amusin how ppl like this guy use ignore lists 2 create their own reality where they dont have 2 deal with ppl who disagree with them
 

goober

Legend
like i said, tennis players: no conceptual understandin of 'team'

Having someone's back does not extend to cheating. I back my partner on close calls or calls which I didn't have a good angle or look at the line. But if I saw a ball 100% definitely in I am calling it in even if my partner calls it out. If he has a problem with that he can leave the team. So far I have never had anyone have a problem with that.

Alot of rec players have played team sports growing up and only take up tennis as adults. So I don't know what you are going on about. I only have 1-2 players on my team that played exclusively tennis growing up. Everybody else mostly played baseball, basketball, football and the mainstream team sports.
 

TeflonTom

Banned
kids sports aint real sports

u dont have 2 support ur partner cheating but u dont burn him on court. his decisions are ur decisions when u are competing, that is part and parcel of bein a team member. u deal with that stuff in the locker room
 

jonnythan

Professional
kids sports aint real sports

u dont have 2 support ur partner cheating but u dont burn him on court. his decisions are ur decisions when u are competing, that is part and parcel of bein a team member. u deal with that stuff in the locker room

Well now we've identified your problem.

You see a line call correction as a "burn" or attack.
 

jonnythan

Professional
kids sports aint real sports

u dont have 2 support ur partner cheating but u dont burn him on court. his decisions are ur decisions when u are competing, that is part and parcel of bein a team member. u deal with that stuff in the locker room

One of the guys in my league is a former NHL player. I'd think he has a more refined concept of what "team" means than you do.

I've seen him overrule his partner on a line call.

So, there goes your bravado and superiority.
 

tenniscasey

Semi-Pro
kids sports aint real sports

u dont have 2 support ur partner cheating but u dont burn him on court. his decisions are ur decisions when u are competing, that is part and parcel of bein a team member. u deal with that stuff in the locker room

If you don't "burn him" on the court, you're supporting his cheating. Welcome to tennis.
 

texacali

Rookie
I never really made a big deal of close ones and more than likely gave benefit of the doubt to my opponent. Now I am in a league and I guess line calls are much more important. I have had to tighten up my line calls but it's such a weird balance of perceived hooking and not screwing yourself or your partner.
 

goober

Legend
kids sports aint real sports

u dont have 2 support ur partner cheating but u dont burn him on court. his decisions are ur decisions when u are competing, that is part and parcel of bein a team member. u deal with that stuff in the locker room


lol @ Mr. Big time sports guy. What pro team did you play for again?

BTW- my team has former minor league baseball, college football, college soccer, college hockey players and the rest high school varsity level. You don't have to play on the pro level to understand team sports.

If he is cheating I don't want his decisions to be my decisions. I don't care if his feelings get hurt or not because if he keeps cheating he won't be on the team anyways. This is recreational tennis not some vision of team from your glory days where things are kept in house and problems solved in the locker room. I feel like I am talking Al Bundy or something.
 

Sim

Semi-Pro
kids sports aint real sports

u dont have 2 support ur partner cheating but u dont burn him on court. his decisions are ur decisions when u are competing, that is part and parcel of bein a team member. u deal with that stuff in the locker room


Way to contradict yourself. By the way, if your partner cheats (and you know it), and you agree, that makes you a cheater/hooker as well. No way to argue that...:-?
 

Baxter

Professional
I sometimes play with a guy that just sees good balls as out. I'm convinced he's not really cheating, and that he truly believes in his calls, but I correct him frequently. Maybe my corrections will help his eyesight.
 

5thstreet

New User
I think I want to side with Teflon Tom on this issue. He really has a point about team psychology.

Now would I let an "obvious" bad call by my partner stand? No, but overruling my partner repeatedly will damage the team.

I think this is all part of finding a good doubles partner. I want a doubles partner that I can trust to make the right call. I shouldn't be spending resources double-checking their work.
 

goober

Legend
I think I want to side with Teflon Tom on this issue. He really has a point about team psychology.

Now would I let an "obvious" bad call by my partner stand? No, but overruling my partner repeatedly will damage the team.
.

The problem is we ARE talking about obvious bad calls. We are not talking about maybes or where your partner clearly had a better angle than you. We are talking about balls that you are 100% certain were in. He is arguing that you should back your partner on any and all calls even ones you were certain that were in and handle it in the locker room.
 

tenniscasey

Semi-Pro
The problem is we ARE talking about obvious bad calls. We are not talking about maybes or where your partner clearly had a better angle than you. We are talking about balls that you are 100% certain were in. He is arguing that you should back your partner on any and all calls even ones you were certain that were in and handle it in the locker room.

Exactly. Close calls aren't part of this conversation; this is about obvious hooking. Teflon's OK with it when team solidarity is at stake.
 

michael_1265

Professional
To TeflonTom:
There is no other team sport where you call your own lines exclusively. Example: You step out of bounds in a pick-up basketball game. If your opponent is in a good position to see, he calls it. If not, no call, because you certainly aren't watching your own feet. In tennis, YOU are the only one who is ALLOWED to make the call, so you are the de facto umpire/referee/line judge at that point. You need to make that call with impartiality, and if you think being a "team player" precludes you from accurately making the call, then you need to find another sport, because you are violating the Code every time you play. There is no ambiguity in this.
 

JRstriker12

Hall of Fame
no, i am not the one hooking. WE are the ones hooking. there is no i in team, as the adage says

this is my whole point. u are a team. u stand together, and u fall together. u act as one unit, in concert. it is the fundamental rule of team sport

if my teammate hooks, he is an agent of our team in doin so. and we will deal with it as a team. not by fallin apart on court

u guys need 2 play some team sports

Cool story bro!

Cheating tennis bros - ultimate team 4 lyfe!!!! Yea Team!
 
The other day I called a serve out. The server thought otherwise and said something. I reiterated "out." He walked up to the net and said, "it looked in to me." I replied once again, "I think it was out."

He jumped all over that. "You 'think?' If you're not sure, then the ball was in!"

For Christ's sake, I SAID OUT. I reverse calls not infrequently when I or my partner is wrong. I don't hook. The ball was out, give it a rest.
 
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