Brad Baughman

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
So we stack the deck a little for him. We advise him to go to college and see how his game and body develop over time. You adjust the path as you LEARN more about a players abilities. I think they refer to this as common sense.

No, that is referred to as hating. :)
 

kme5150

Rookie
There is no doubt that DB is going to go to college for a period of time, maybe even all 4 years. Players only interested in the pro route don't keep a high GPA and AP courses. Brad isn't stupid. He is smart enough to know that it doesn't matter how much pace you have on the ball, you have mass behind it and that only comes with age, diet and working out. If he is coming on this forum, then you can guarantee that he is reading about every guy out there who is young and struggling on tour. If he went to USC or UCLA he would have access to an unlimited amount of practice opportunities in the LA area along with being able to play a handful of Futures events without having to travel much.
 

GRANITECHIEF

Hall of Fame
BAUGHMAN, Deiton
DIGIULIO, joseph
6-7(5) 6-3 [12-10]

Not sure anybody noticed but the socal boys both just got their first tour point, and now have a ATP doubles ranking.

Great job, onward and upward.
 
Good post. The key word you used is "yet". Give him time. He's still improving. Maybe not to your standards given the goal, but improving none the less.

What I like are the guarentees " he will not make money"!
About a year ago DB was training working on his shots "development" thought this is his summer were gonna win this and that, then he put on about 3 inches over a 4-5 month period and all the work we put in just to have him placing balls in the bottom of the net.

Anyone seeing him would say a year from now this kid will be top 40 or 50 nationaly in the 18's and I would have agreed , he is no. 7 .Oh the pain of developing a kid that "is" still growing.
 
honestly the Baughman's need to start speaking with players who have chosen to go straight pro or one year and out for college.
Ask Donald Young how tough it was to grind it out in the Satellites, Futures, and Challengers to make Pro Level and then get knocked back down again. Ask Britton what it is like to travel to every little country trying to make a few bucks, Kosakowski, and now Krueger and the list goes one. Some advice from his peers might be the best thing for him to make a decision.
Should he go pro? Let him and his dad decide, if he makes it great, if he fails I guess the haters will get to cheer.

Some of the guys mentioned I have talked to ,tried to get them to talk about the 3 to 4 hrs of off court training the tour requires ,this subject was a different language they have not started speaking yet , I understand why some struggle out there .
 

10isplayer

Semi-Pro
BAUGHMAN, Deiton
DIGIULIO, joseph
6-7(5) 6-3 [12-10]

Not sure anybody noticed but the socal boys both just got their first tour point, and now have a ATP doubles ranking.

Great job, onward and upward.

You have to make the semifinals of a futures to get ATP doubles points.
 

andfor

Legend
What I like are the guarentees " he will not make money"!
About a year ago DB was training working on his shots "development" thought this is his summer were gonna win this and that, then he put on about 3 inches over a 4-5 month period and all the work we put in just to have him placing balls in the bottom of the net.

Anyone seeing him would say a year from now this kid will be top 40 or 50 nationaly in the 18's and I would have agreed , he is no. 7 .Oh the pain of developing a kid that "is" still growing.

He's leaving himself some wiggle room in the event he does. Nice doubles win.
 
There is no doubt that DB is going to go to college for a period of time, maybe even all 4 years. Players only interested in the pro route don't keep a high GPA and AP courses. Brad isn't stupid. He is smart enough to know that it doesn't matter how much pace you have on the ball, you have mass behind it and that only comes with age, diet and working out. If he is coming on this forum, then you can guarantee that he is reading about every guy out there who is young and struggling on tour. If he went to USC or UCLA he would have access to an unlimited amount of practice opportunities in the LA area along with being able to play a handful of Futures events without having to travel much.

Either #1 Coach is slinging the baloney here or I am misinfomed. I keep hearing him say DB taking 4-5 AP classes and has 4.0 average. My current player goes to a very good public school. He is taking 2 AP classes and 3 honors classes. Has has an average of 5 hours of homework a night. He's extremely bright. He is barely getting in 4 hours of tennis a week. How is it DB can take 4-5 AP's , get in all the tennis practice, and do conditioning 2-3 hours a day. Something doesn't add up.
 
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TCF

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Tennishacker

Professional
Coach1, you should copy playing styles similar to top pros that are DB's size.

Isner-6'9"/245lbs., Berdych-6'5"/200lbs., Querry-6'6"/200lbs.

Can't go wrong with big forehand, and Isner like serve.

Pulling for DB!
 
Either #1 Coach is slinging the baloney here or I am misinfomed. I keep hearing him say DB taking 4-5 AP classes and has 4.0 average. My current player goes to a very good public school. He is taking 2 AP classes and 3 honors classes. Has has an average of 5 hours of homework a night. He's extremely bright. He is barely getting in 4 hours of tennis a week. How is it DB can take 4-5 AP's , get in all the tennis practice, and do conditioning 2-3 hours a day. Something doesn't add up.

He home schools ,starts some of his day as early as 430 am to condition and weight lift for a couple hrs. that allows schoolwork from 7 am to 1pm then some tennis around 3pm till 5pm ,,that is what some of his days consist of .
 
Coach1, you should copy playing styles similar to top pros that are DB's size.

Isner-6'9"/245lbs., Berdych-6'5"/200lbs., Querry-6'6"/200lbs.

Can't go wrong with big forehand, and Isner like serve.

Pulling for DB!

Thanx we are considering those guys already ,been studying a lot of film .thanx though
 
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mikej

Hall of Fame
Agreed certain majors and schools have a higher placement rate. Agreed, college is a safe path. No debate there.

I produced the number, that's out there. You've provided no facts other than personal opinion and experience. It's your turn, you debunk it. I'm open to that.

All I'm saying is let the kid and his family follow their own path. They know the pitfalls, they know what it's going to take. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Good luck to them.

BTW. Thanks for the insult. I know, I'm welcome. Great guy you are mikej.

You could have just said "no" - no need to waste so much space saying you have no good data to provide either

But looks like you came around to the common sense verdict with your first sentence, so solid work
 
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mikej

Hall of Fame
Some of the guys mentioned I have talked to ,tried to get them to talk about the 3 to 4 hrs of off court training the tour requires ,this subject was a different language they have not started speaking yet , I understand why some struggle out there .

This is why I'm not sold that dad will wise up about the college decision - still seems to think all the guys who fail on tour just didn't actually try to succeed
 

ga tennis

Hall of Fame
Really? So guys the same size play the same games with no difference due to personality, leg mass and percentage of fast/slow twitch muscle fibers, the ways their tennis brains process angles, reaction time...and on and on? Those 3 guys have the same games?

Goodness, I guess it is back to tennis school for me.

I dont think he meant playing styles i think he was talking about technique on the forehand.
 

Tennishacker

Professional
Really? So guys the same size play the same games with no difference due to personality, leg mass and percentage of fast/slow twitch muscle fibers, the ways their tennis brains process angles, reaction time...and on and on? Those 3 guys have the same games?

Goodness, I guess it is back to tennis school for me.

Is it always TCF's way or the highway?

If you read my post, I said SIMILAR, not EXACTLY.

Forget to take your meds today?
 
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TCF

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Soianka

Hall of Fame
Thats also a good topic. A 'big forehand'. Like a great basketball dunker, of which the playgrounds are full of yet none made it to the NBA. The world is full of guys with big forehands.

So obviously the guys who make money with their forehands have a lot of other factors. Those intangibles are what we can not just make appear from only hard work.

Off topic: A friend of mine always said there are guys on playgrounds around the country who are better than NBA players.

Do you believe that is true or possible?
 
Thats also a good topic. A 'big forehand'. Like a great basketball dunker, of which the playgrounds are full of yet none made it to the NBA. The world is full of guys with big forehands.

So obviously the guys who make money with their forehands have a lot of other factors. Those intangibles are what we can not just make appear from only hard work.

TCF I would think you would be on DB's bandwagon big time , think about it this kid up until last year has never had a steady stream of hits ,up until last year he was lucky if he had 2 hits a week but usually it was about 6 to 8 hits a month, the majority (80 %) of his training was from hand fed ball drills .

yet is able to have made the strides he has ,been a blue chip every year , top player in So.Cal no.1 or 2 every year and has done this with No academies no Boca where your hitting against kids 3 to 4 hrs a day and once again has become the player he has .

So since you have never seen him with your own eyes and that has been his training for the last 9 years or so you dont think he has these "mystical intangibles" your talking of ?
 
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andfor

Legend
You could have just said "no" - no need to waste so much space saying you have no good data to provide either

But looks like you came around to the common sense verdict with your first sentence, so solid work

The rate remains 53%. Your assumption of how thiose numbers break down is still a guess.
 
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TCF

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Off topic: A friend of mine always said there are guys on playgrounds around the country who are better than NBA players.

Do you believe that is true or possible?
No doubt some are more physcially talented. May have more and better moves. Jump higher. But as all round basketball players, which requires tremendous teamwork, discipline and hard work, my opinion is they are not better. I played a LOT in my younger days and saw many of the greats on the 4th st playground in lower Manhattan. This summer when NYC opened up some of the playgrounds and inner city tournaments it resulted in a lot of shootings. Very sad to see this American tradition fading out.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
The rate remains 53%. Your assumption of how thiose numbers break down is still a guess.

Post. A. Source. For. That. Number.

Remains from where? Did I miss you posting a source earlier - I've flipped through the last couple pages but maybe I missed it?
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
No doubt some are more physcially talented. May have more and better moves. Jump higher. But as all round basketball players, which requires tremendous teamwork, discipline and hard work, my opinion is they are not better. I played a LOT in my younger days and saw many of the greats on the 4th st playground in lower Manhattan. This summer when NYC opened up some of the playgrounds and inner city tournaments it resulted in a lot of shootings. Very sad to see this American tradition fading out.

I went to NYU...I fondly remember walking past the 4th street playground...stopping to watch a little from time to time.
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
Now you are in my wheelhouse! I grew up near Philadelphia and spent a lot of time of the playgrounds.

The answer is yes. There are playground legends who actually school NBA guys during summer league. Anthony Parker started for a few seasons in the NBA, and he could not hang with some of the playground guys when they got rolling.

I have heard interviews with NBA players and many will mention guys they know back home who are better than some NBA players. Dwayne Wade said one of the best guards he ever played with is still playing on a playground in Chicago.

I think there are various reasons, from work ethic, playing within a structure of a team, prison stints, etc.

Interesting.
 

tennis5

Professional
Either #1 Coach is slinging the baloney here or I am misinfomed. I keep hearing him say DB taking 4-5 AP classes and has 4.0 average. My current player goes to a very good public school. He is taking 2 AP classes and 3 honors classes. Has has an average of 5 hours of homework a night. He's extremely bright. He is barely getting in 4 hours of tennis a week. How is it DB can take 4-5 AP's , get in all the tennis practice, and do conditioning 2-3 hours a day. Something doesn't add up.

Very simple.
The question is did he he take 4-5 AP's this year,
but colleges are looking at what you did on the AP EXAM......
Did you get a 5 on each exam?
( some kids are getting 2's and 3's, so then it is not worth much.)
That is the real question.

Bottom line, if your kid is taking 4-5 AP classes with a good grade on the AP exams, your eye is on college.

My question is there are so many other talented boys out there ( and girls),
why does TT revolve around this one kid?
 
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Very simple.
The question is did he he take 4-5 AP's this year,
but colleges are looking at what you did on the AP EXAM......
Did you get a 5 on each exam?
That is the real question.

Bottom line, if your kid is taking 4-5 AP classes with a good grade on the exams, your eye is on college.

My question is there are so many other talented boys out there ( and girls),
why does TT revolve around one kid?

My question is this. In AP classes in a traditional school 5 APs equal 7.5 hours of studying per night. Obviously no one training full time for tennis could do this. Either Coach #1 is making this stuff up or his homeschool program does not require nearly that much studying for AP's. For my own knowledge I would like to know if the latter is true.
 
I have said that what you have accomplished is amazing.

But isn't what you say here more reason he should play some college tennis? Solid coaching, great practice partners? Is it possible his game explodes with 2 years of top college tennis? What if that is his way to the pros rather than a barrier?

I admit I do not know what the intangibles even are. Maybe a top player's brain sees the court unlike what we see. In the end its all about winning. Lets see how he does in next years Junior US Open. Maybe he wins the dang thing and makes me dead wrong again.

Did not plan on the Jrs. Next year ,will see though .
 
My question is this. In AP classes in a traditional school 5 APs equal 7.5 hours of studying per night. Obviously no one training full time for tennis could do this. Either Coach #1 is making this stuff up or his homeschool program does not require nearly that much studying for AP's. For my own knowledge I would like to know if the latter is true.

how many hours in a day ? devote 6 to studys 4 to 5 to training what do we have lef=
 
F

Freak4tennis

Guest
Sorry, but you are totally misinformed on that. As soon as a you win a match at a Futures in singles or doubles, you get ranking points.

No offense I just don't think it's nice to call someone misinformed when you yourself have the data completely wrong.

1 futures round doubles you get zero points, 2nd futures round doubles win you get 6 doubles points. The doubles points have zero contribution to your singles ranking or points.

The 2nd round doubles win equaling 6 doubles points will convert to about 1500 - 1650 doubles ranking depending on the number of tournaments played. Since these are 16 team draws that would be at least losing in the semi's before any points would be earned.

1 round singles is 1 singles point.
 
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10isplayer

Semi-Pro

GRANITECHIEF

Hall of Fame
No, you are wrong. http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/ranking-points.aspx

Check out the second paragraph right below the men's circuit table.

"Doubles Rankings points are only awarded in Futures tournaments in the semi-final and final rounds."

I guess I'm not totally misinformed?

Got, corrected. No ranking yet and 0-4 in first rounds of last 4 futures quals. Nice job though getting the WC in Irvine but a tough draw there too, 0-1 in main draws. Keep plugin, not easy to get that first point.
 
how many hours in a day ? devote 6 to studys 4 to 5 to training what do we have lef=

This what I do not understand. My top player goes to class for 6 hours a day, than has 5 hours of studying on top of that. So he has 11 hours. And he has only 2 APs. Do you mind me asking what school he goes to where you can do 4-5 APs in a total of 6 hours a day. Laurel Springs? Keystone? Kaplan?
 

Rob_C

Hall of Fame
No offense I just don't think it's nice to call someone misinformed when you yourself have the data completely wrong.

1 futures round doubles you get zero points, 2nd futures round doubles win you get 6 doubles points. The doubles points have zero contribution to your singles ranking or points.

The 2nd round doubles win equaling 6 doubles points will convert to about 1500 - 1650 doubles ranking depending on the number of tournaments played. Since these are 16 team draws that would be at least losing in the semi's before any points would be earned.

1 round singles is 1 singles point.

No, you are wrong. http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/ranking-points.aspx

Check out the second paragraph right below the men's circuit table.

"Doubles Rankings points are only awarded in Futures tournaments in the semi-final and final rounds."

I guess I'm not totally misinformed?

Well, it used to be that if you won a rd in dubs, it would be 1 ATP dubs pt. Guess they changed that.
 

tennis5

Professional
This what I do not understand. My top player goes to class for 6 hours a day, than has 5 hours of studying on top of that. So he has 11 hours. And he has only 2 APs. Do you mind me asking what school he goes to where you can do 4-5 APs in a total of 6 hours a day. Laurel Springs? Keystone? Kaplan?

Your son will be well prepared for college is how you should look at it.

My son is at a traditional school, 8 am to 4 pm.
I hear you. It is a tight day. 5 hours of hw, in bed by 1 am.

Yes, this is a generalization, but
the few boys I know who do online only do 2-3 hours a day and that includes studying.
No AP exams, no extra activities, no volunteer work. Their focus is on turning pro.
The girls seem to be more studious, so I will not lump them in this category.

Like I said, some schools allow massive taking of AP classes, the real question is how they did on the exam.
 
And I am sure the kid walks on water after these 4-5 APs. Ya, the thing is, this is just like GPA and SAT scores, only the person involved knows the truth and they are commonly exaggerated to friends and public.

I just assumed this is all b.s. like the rest. One big fluff marketing campaign. If you exaggerate (lie) about one thing, ya tend to exaggerate (lie) about everything. btw NCAA tightening down on online programs. There is a recent recruit that will never admit he did not get into his top 3 schools because his online program did not make the grade, but that is good info to know. Just be careful when choosing an online program.

So what your saying is in So.Cal every age group he has been no.1 he is now 16 and nationaly ranked no.7 in the 18's. Now let me tell you this is all exaggerated , let me ad more Semis boys 18's Clay court "a lie ", semis Boys 18ns Winter Nats "Imaginary" round of 16 at the Zoo ,wasn't there it was and "imposter".

Let's see its not really him playing tennis its Andre Agassi , Once again you wonder why I laugh at Higher Education guys like you !
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
No offense I just don't think it's nice to call someone misinformed when you yourself have the data completely wrong.

1 futures round doubles you get zero points, 2nd futures round doubles win you get 6 doubles points. The doubles points have zero contribution to your singles ranking or points.

The 2nd round doubles win equaling 6 doubles points will convert to about 1500 - 1650 doubles ranking depending on the number of tournaments played. Since these are 16 team draws that would be at least losing in the semi's before any points would be earned.

1 round singles is 1 singles point.

No, you are wrong. http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/ranking-points.aspx

Check out the second paragraph right below the men's circuit table.

"Doubles Rankings points are only awarded in Futures tournaments in the semi-final and final rounds."

I guess I'm not totally misinformed?

I am sorry that I had that one wrong. I had mistakenly thought I had seen doubles points charts on Futures draw sheets that included the quarterfinal rounds. It makes zero sense that winning earns nothing (what's the rationale? Doubles is easy? First round losers are all chumps, so who cares if you beat them?) Nevertheless, it can be confirmed from the doubles ranking breakdowns of players who play a lot of Futures. For example, I looked up Reid Carleton on the ATP web site. He won in the round of 16, lost in the quarterfinals, in two consecutive weeks in August of 2012 in Canadian Futures tourneys, and got zero points both times. My mistake.

Seriously, if anyone knows a rationale, I would love to hear it. FYI: Carleton won prize money (chump change) in the two Futures that earned zero points.
 

10ismom

Semi-Pro
I am sorry that I had that one wrong. I had mistakenly thought I had seen doubles points charts on Futures draw sheets that included the quarterfinal rounds. It makes zero sense that winning earns nothing (what's the rationale? Doubles is easy? First round losers are all chumps, so who cares if you beat them?) .......

Seriously, if anyone knows a rationale, I would love to hear it. FYI: Carleton won prize money (chump change) in the two Futures that earned zero points.

I don't know a rationale but guessing a scenario here:
A very solid player helps a weak player pairing up in doubles. The team probably can win a couple of rounds but will lose to a strong team in semi or final. A weak player is not awarded a point preventing him/her from an easy access to the next level.
 

10isplayer

Semi-Pro
I am sorry that I had that one wrong. I had mistakenly thought I had seen doubles points charts on Futures draw sheets that included the quarterfinal rounds. It makes zero sense that winning earns nothing (what's the rationale? Doubles is easy? First round losers are all chumps, so who cares if you beat them?) Nevertheless, it can be confirmed from the doubles ranking breakdowns of players who play a lot of Futures. For example, I looked up Reid Carleton on the ATP web site. He won in the round of 16, lost in the quarterfinals, in two consecutive weeks in August of 2012 in Canadian Futures tourneys, and got zero points both times. My mistake.

Seriously, if anyone knows a rationale, I would love to hear it. FYI: Carleton won prize money (chump change) in the two Futures that earned zero points.

Don't know the rationale behind not giving points, but I can tell you that if you lose in the first round of doubles at a futures event you get no prize money so they really do devalue doubles.
 
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