Athleticism is tough to judge with tennis. I mean Agassi probably wasn't that great an athlete by any measurable standard. But holy hell did he have hand-eye coordination.
Tomic floats like Federer. Neither look like they are exerting energy, yet they both cover the court exceptionally well.
Tomic floats like Federer. Neither look like they are exerting energy, yet they both cover the court exceptionally well.
Ditto. You don't get his results with his game without great movement. Maybe not GOAT movement, but great nonetheless.
Particularly americans, but actually all people on these boards are obsessed with athleticism and how much somebody benchpresses or runs a 100 metres. I think with talented players, this is the LEAST interesting aspect. The fact that Tomic is a top 100 pro and on a good day a top 20 one, tells you that this guy is insanely talented. His body is clearly underdeveloped and athleticism is the most trainable aspect of being a tennisplayer. At this age, relearning strokes, hand eye coordination, mental fortitude, or a good serve are all way harder to develop. I think this makes Tomic a particularly good prospect. He's got the raw talent, but just needs to work hard physically. If he does, he's future top 10 or top 5.
looks like that tennisfan182 troll is back.
Of any ATP top 100 professional that is.
110mph serve and he cannot move.
It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?
It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.
Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.
It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?
It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.
Actually, you didn't list the NFL tests that are most relevant to tennis: The first ten yard split of the 40 yard dash, the three cone drill and the 20-yard shuttle. All three test short-distance speed and change of direction ability. Vertical jump is probably the best single indicator of lower-body explosive power, so that is a good one. The best performers in these four tests in the NFL are cornerbacks, and I believe that someday we'll see an athlete that could have been a top NFL cornerback choose tennis instead, and he will transform the sport. These guys have explosiveness, speed and agility that has never been seen on a tennis court.
You're right that Tomic is nowhere near that class of athlete. But neither was John McEnroe. Speed and power are important but the gifts of touch, anticipation and court craft are even more important in tennis.
(Squat, deadlift and bench press would not be good tests for tennis athleticism as very high scores in those tests would indicate excess muscles mass which would make a player less efficient over a long match.)
tennis is not the nfl.
how do you think federer would fare against the current top 10 american tennis players in those exercises/stats that you mention? i'm pretty sure more than half will beat him stats wise, but on a tennis court none of them stand a chance.
It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?
It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.
That is rubbish. Skills, tactics, and vision can certainly not be developed later. Any rational person knows that the male specimens from your fantasies (4 second 40 yard dash, 500 lbs bench press, 60 inch vertical jump) would never be able to hit a tennis ball as crisply and perfectly as Nalbandian no matter how much training they receive. Fortunately, most tennis coaches are not idiots, so they don't go around looking for grown men with huge biceps to develop into future tennis talents.
That is only the fault of the pathetic pool of talent that tennis has to draw from where all the best go to the NFL and NBA, and tennis gets the leftovers who couldn't have made it in any other sport.
John McEnroe would never have been allowed to dominate in the manner he did if tennis took the best athletes, because then it wouldn't be long before a player came along who had volleys just as deft as his, but with the athleticism of an NFL wide receiver to go with it - and McEnroe would have gotten thrashed.
It makes me sick how everyone thinks Nadal is such a great athlete, when, compared to athletes of pretty much any other sport, he would be flat out appalling in any of those basic indicators of athleticism (bench, dead, squat, vert jump, 40 yard dash) I listed.
Half? I think 99% beat him. And on a tenniscourt, they wont win a point most likely.
With a game like American foot(?)ball which asks for little special qualities other than being a great athlete, it's very different. What do you think is more special about Federer and Nadal?
1) the way they can hit a forehand?
2) their 40 yard dash, squat, deadlift, benchpress or vertical jump?
My whole point is that tennis, just like actual football is way more about skill than about athleticism. Skill you don't learn at age 20, you just don't.
There's a lot that can be improved in terms of fitness and strength, but some things you'll never learn after your 8th birthday. It's almost like selecting the next Mozart solely on fingerlength and flexibility or something.
It can very well be that they do it that way in AF, I don't know much about AF, but I think in tennis things are very different.
Exactly.
What does that mean?
lo @ the idiotic comments regarding the NFL.
what a bunch of one trick ponies!
fun to watch, but a niche sport that nobody cares about anywhere else..
as for Tomic..
http://youtu.be/g0NSjem4exY?t=1m39s
just watch it.
(y'all are talking about a version of Tomic that is obsolete, it is like talking about Federer's on court tantrums and mental fragility, it was true when he was 18..)
It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?
It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.
Vision is not a secondary skill by a long shot. Skill and strategy are learned. Vision is gifted.It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?
It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.
no it dosnt..just because someone is fast, muscular, strong, or superfit dosnt mean they will be good at any particular sport.
It's the opposite - why do you think the NFL recruits based almost exclusively on stats such as 40 yard dash, max squat, max deadlift, 225 bench press test and vertical jump height?
It's because they know that these qualities are the most important aspects of any sport. Select athletes that are good at these, and the rest will follow. Skills, tactics and vision are secondary and can always be developed later.
That is only the fault of the pathetic pool of talent that tennis has to draw from where all the best go to the NFL and NBA, and tennis gets the leftovers who couldn't have made it in any other sport.
John McEnroe would never have been allowed to dominate in the manner he did if tennis took the best athletes, because then it wouldn't be long before a player came along who had volleys just as deft as his, but with the athleticism of an NFL wide receiver to go with it - and McEnroe would have gotten thrashed.
It makes me sick how everyone thinks Nadal is such a great athlete, when, compared to athletes of pretty much any other sport, he would be flat out appalling in any of those basic indicators of athleticism (bench, dead, squat, vert jump, 40 yard dash) I listed.
I retract that. BOTH vision and skill are gifted. Only strategy can be learned.
That is only the fault of the pathetic pool of talent that tennis has to draw from where all the best go to the NFL and NBA, and tennis gets the leftovers who couldn't have made it in any other sport.
People like to say that LeBron, trained, would be the greatest tennis player in the world. But would he be the best point guard in the world? I think he's too big, and he may be too big for tennis too.
That is absolutely absurd. Tomic's movement is horrendous compared to Federer's. Tomic is simply not among the "great" movers on tour like Djokovic, Murray,Nadal, Ferrer etc.
With that said, he is not even close to being the worst athlete ever. BeHappy is probably trolling agin.
Well said. Lebron would be an Isner type tennis player. His legs would struggle to carry his huge body through 5 (or even 3) sets.