Maybe you sometimes just arent talented for a sport. A great sense of how a ball moves and great eyes and stuff. Its a gift as well. Athleticism is a gift as well but also training can make up for talent to a high degree. In Tomic case, i think it is easier to improve pfysically than technically.
Tomic worst athlete ever?
- Thread starter BeHappy
- Start date
I think the style of running required for tennis is very different than the style needed for basketball. Tennis requires a lot of sideways running with a ton of sliding. Basketball is less switching directions and mostly moving in 1 direction.
I do think Lebron would be better than Isner, but I think he would look very much like a better Isner. He wouldn't look very agile on a tenni court.
Your example of Steve Nash is very good. I do think he'd be a better tennis player because he has the ability to switch directions on a whim, which is enabled by his lower body mass which means you have less momentum (again, I think that would really hurt Lebron's agility on a tennis court)
Regarding Lebron's fitness, I don't believe Lebron would last a tennis match. That being said, he is a tremendous athlete, and if he was a tennis player, his training regimen would be different which would make him capable of playing a complete game from start to finish.
RAFA2005RG
Banned
Like it or not, apart from the French Open, Tomic has a very good shot of winning all the slams, from 2014 onwards. He may even have a shot at one of them this year. Probably will be a finalist this year somewhere, or semi-finalist at worst.
Wilander Fan
Hall of Fame
Tennis has been more about skill than athleticism. An average athlete with great training would destroy a great athlete with average training. However, the slower courts reverse this trend.
That's a bold prediction, considering the top 4 are still a very tough nut to crack, and the ones just outside (Del Po et al) are not much softer. I could see a slam semi-final this year if things fall just right, but I wouldn't put money on it. Wouldn't mind being wrong, though.
RAFA2005RG
Banned
Almost there in 2011, he lost to Djokovic in Wimbledon QF So he is just a bit of mental maturity away from going to a semi or final. Tomic actually fell asleep for a potion of that QF vs Djokovic, and lost 7-5 in 4th set.
TennisLovaLova
Hall of Fame
RodSmooth
Professional
No they don't, just look at monfils.
Relinquis
Hall of Fame
the NFL and NBA comments are amusing. the reason the US doesn't have a top 10 tennis player is because you guys don't teach the backhand anymore. look at your current top male pros. they have dink/WTA type backhands. Now compare to the Spaniard ATP pros, even one-handers like AlMagro. you can't cover the court effectively if you have to run around every backhand.
tomic is going to be interesting to watch over the next few years. i dislike his personality; the unjustified arrogance and the solipsism/self-centredness are high even by tennis player standards. But he does have 'touch' and a distinctive playing style. he's going to be a wonderful player to hate if he gets his act together on the court. this will be good for tennis in an age where every player is supposed to corporate friendly and sing/dance to gagnam style or whatever it's called. (tipsy resists a bit and keeps it real here: http://youtu.be/yGXYVtXXgmk?t=1m49s )
he's very, very young. just a baby really. he has a lot of potential if he gets some discipline.
tomic is going to be interesting to watch over the next few years. i dislike his personality; the unjustified arrogance and the solipsism/self-centredness are high even by tennis player standards. But he does have 'touch' and a distinctive playing style. he's going to be a wonderful player to hate if he gets his act together on the court. this will be good for tennis in an age where every player is supposed to corporate friendly and sing/dance to gagnam style or whatever it's called. (tipsy resists a bit and keeps it real here: http://youtu.be/yGXYVtXXgmk?t=1m49s )
he's very, very young. just a baby really. he has a lot of potential if he gets some discipline.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
RodSmooth
Professional
A perfect example of a great genetic freak playing tennis is monfils.
And we all know he would be the GOAT if he knew how to use his game properly
mmk
Hall of Fame
I've thought for years that AI would have been an awesome tennis player. Quick, great footwork, and great vision. He was always more of an individual talent who happened to be playing a team sport. From what I hear he was a great high school quarterback, so the service motion wouldn't have been too hard to learn.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
No we really don't.Sorry, but we are not completely insane like you.
N
nikdom
Guest
Ah, I get it now. The part where a chess player gets to think about his next move for 5 minutes and all the possible ways his opponent can respond.
Execution is more important. A player can have the fanciest tactical plan but will blown off the court if they can't execute at a high level. What tactical chess did Rosol play? He just hit hard and did not miss - that's execution for you.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes execution is most important, but it only comes if you have the mentality down. Rosol closed out Nadal without the slightest hint of nerves. He hit hard and did not miss. That was his tactic. You said it yourself. You just called it execution instead of tactics. A guy can have the fanciest tactical plan he wants, but if he doesn't have the mentality to execute it, it's useless.
Relinquis
Hall of Fame
he got sent home the next match and we haven't heard from him since.
let me clarify the chess analogy, in chess one of the basic strategies is to control the centre of the board in a way that allows your pieces there the maximum attacking angles and at the same time is protected by the pieces behind. this allows you to gradually build up pressure on your opponent as you move pieces forward or open up more angles. chess players have a lot of sequences that they put into play to gain position and adapt as the match goes on.
In tennis, you construct points by positioning yourself in a manner where you have attacking angles and can use various shots to put pressure on your opponent. you build this gradually one shot at a time picking from the arsenal of shots that you have (your pieces) e.g. serve out wide, move into position, hit inside-out forehand and then you have an easy winner into an open court. Tennis players have a lot of sequences that they put into play to gain position/footing and adapt as the match goes on.
in tennis as in chess, you have to adapt to your opponent's strategy. it's dynamic. it requires focus. it requires mental toughness.
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RodSmooth
Professional
always_crosscourt
Banned
Nope, tennis is far simpler than you make it out to be. Most tennis players aren't that smart, let's face it - and I don't think I'm shocking anyone by saying that!
Tennis is not very tactical. 99 times out of 100, players will just pick one tactic and use it exclusively.
Take Nadal, he has one general tactic: hit forehands to the backhand. Serve to the backhand. Volley to the backhand. Slice to the backhand. Dropshot to the backhand. Lob over the backhand.
And he uses it against everyone, all the time. If you were so limited that you only had one thing you did to everyone, all the time in chess, you'd get brutalized. But in tennis, there is nothing anyone not named Djokovic can do about it. And Nadal still has a winning record over Djokovic.
He's 6'5"
Ivanisevic, Monfils and Tsonga = lightning fast at 6'5"
Greg Rusedski, Cilic= move extremely well at 6'5"
EVen Ljubicic moves like greaed lightning compared to Tomic.
Maybe SOderling is as slow but he serves 145mph.
Honestly, hand on heart, I have never seen a player with athleticism this bad. Still, with the courts this slow rendering a big serve useless and speed optional, maybe I'll have to get used to this.
namelessone
Legend
He's an annoying kid but how the hell is he the worst athlete ever?
He's slow and weak. He moves like Safin after his knee injury. He serves like Martina Hingis.
Players like Scheng Shalken and Miroslav Mecir have had weak serves like Tomic. Players like Soderling and Almagro have moved as bad as him, but I have never ever seen both attributes in one player. It is shocking.
Are you out of your mind? You'd DREAM to move like him. Yea, he doesn't move as well as others, but he's still 1000% better than you.
There is a point of diminishing returns in sports. In boxing, it's 6'3", above that and you are awkward, under you have distance issues. Same deal Tennis, 6'1" is about right, DelPortro, the dude in Canada, these 6'5" guys have advantages over others, but lose in the agility, so in the highest level of tennis it hurts, but bad athelete? Please, you should be so bad.
I don't know, I never thought this about a pro before but I think your average amateur is much faster than Tomic. "Movement" encompasses footwork as in setting up for the shot and he's obviously amazing at that, but he can't "move" as in defend.
Del Potro and Raonic are both way faster than Tomic. They move well.
RAFA2005RG
Banned
Interesting that Tomic is extremely good at retrieving side-to-side and also very good at running down drop-shots for cold winners. I definitely wouldn't say the same about Raonoaf, but Del Potro is decent (although maybe not as good as Tomic). The only surface that Tomic doesn't move great on is clay. He won't be winning Roland Garros anytime soon.
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Timbo's hopeless slice
Hall of Fame
just watch it, sheesh
Thud and blunder
Semi-Pro
Yeah, the guy has got It - the X-factor; you can see that there's a beast in the making...
X Commentator doesn't like his forehand, his serve, his movement, his hairstyle, his car, his dad...and yet, the beast gets stronger...you can see it, unless you don't want to.
X Commentator doesn't like his forehand, his serve, his movement, his hairstyle, his car, his dad...and yet, the beast gets stronger...you can see it, unless you don't want to.
Feather
Legend
There was another poster who was also fond of Rafa and Tomic :wink:
RAFA2005RG
Banned
^ that poster said Federer was his 3rd favorite player :lol:
Relinquis
Hall of Fame
tomic has been moving better lately... check out this shot from yesterday's match against Brands...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uy1bYbqqIw
he does accelerate poorly though. little explosiveness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uy1bYbqqIw
he does accelerate poorly though. little explosiveness.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
good lord, what planet are you on?
monfils and tsonga are not 6'5"...ivanisevic i believe was 6'4"
rusedski and cilic move extremely well...what does extreme mean to you?...the top four move extremely well to me...perhaps rusedski and cilic move extremely well for big guys
soderling serves 145 mph?...has he reached that once in his career?...he certainly hasn't done that consistently...hell, no one has
and as to the original question..in any sport?..just tennis?
george carlin used to say somewhere out there is the world's worst doctor...i guess so...i have no way of knowing if tomic's the worst athlete ever but his ranking suggests that's nowhere near true...and athleticism is not just speed or jumping ability
They're as fast as Federer, though not the other top 3.
Ivanisevic was 6'5", that measurement on the ATP website is definitely wrong. I've seen Monfils listed at 6'5" but they're listing him as 6'4" now. They're both European and a few years ago the ATP changed it's policy of rounding players height up when converting European players height from cm to inches. It was in the news when Federer's height changed from 6'2" to 6'1" a few years ago.
.
Soderling reached 145mph once per match usually.
Krajiceck, Monfils, Cilic, Rusedski, Ivanisevic and Yannick Noah all are all between 6'4" and range between fast and lightning fast.
Tomic doesn't have a fast twitch muscle fibre in his body. And he has no serve. He stands in the middle of the baseline and hits great groundstrokes and that's it.
Even Isner moves significantly faster than Tomic and he's 6'9".
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RAFA2005RG
Banned
While Tomic is serving like this, movement isn't too important (but he is moving very well to drop shots and laterally too). He served 26 aces yesterday, and hasn't been broken since the QF of Sydney.
When Federer rains winners against Tomic tomorrow just like he did last year you will all see I'm right. Federer just had to hit a ball into the corner and it was an automatic winner, Tomic can't move.
Timbo's hopeless slice
Hall of Fame
BeHAppy, have you even looked at this, or are you trolling?
http://youtu.be/g0NSjem4exY?t=1m39s
surely nobody could be as stupid as you appear to be?
http://youtu.be/g0NSjem4exY?t=1m39s
surely nobody could be as stupid as you appear to be?
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Tomic has a weak serve? Surely, you can't mean 1st serve? He served 26 aces in his match yesterday and didn't get broken once (only had 1 BP against him the whole match).
dgoran
Hall of Fame
I don't think that its a secret that Bernie's movement is not good. Cahill said the same thing last night he is just not athletic, but don't confuse that with good or in his case excellent anticipation. He masks his lack of athletic ability with guess work and he usually guesses right. But let's not kid ourself here he is nowhere near where today's game is with Nole on top following by Yes still old man fed and rafa. They are just amazing and these days you have to move that good to win gs.
dgoran
Hall of Fame
Watching Tomic is cool since its different and feels like watching old school tennis with anticipation and craft but to paraphrase Cahill he still has long way to go since today's tops players like Djokovic do not guess they are that good and fast that they can wait to see where the ball is going basically split step and take off no guessing.
uncooling
Semi-Pro
You're talking as if he's played 30 matches since QF of Sydney!
Anyway, who was the highest ranked player he beat since QF of Sydney?
He's only had to beat easy low-ranked noobies like 4 matches in total until today, so what's so important about having not broken since then?
If he struggles with someone ranked outside of Top 100 at 2nd round of GS, it says all about him!
...His movement is not that impressive. Worst athlete ever? Definitely, absolutely not. But unlike Murray and Djokovic, he doesn't have the footspeed to make up for it. He doesn't have the explosiveness of Nadal to make up for it. He doesn't have the efficiency of Federer to make up for it. He doesn't have the technical prowess of Ferrer or Kohlschreiber to make up for it. That said, Tsonga, Berdych, Delpo, Gasquet, these aren't exactly great movers. They don't need to be since they can demolish the ball, and in the case of Gasquet, can create absurd angles. Let's give Tomic to 22, no questions/comments made and then we'll see what his potential really is. Too many players these days being lauded as replacements of their great countrymen. Until proven, I prefer to say that results speak louder than words.
RAFA2005RG
Banned
Well its at least 73 straight holds (I heard that late in the Brands match), which is impressive no matter who you play. And since the QF of Sydney he beat Nieminen (ranked 44), Mayer (ranked 28 ), Matosevic (ranked 49) and now in AO he beat Brands (ranked 120 but clearly playing well), and the other Mayer (ranked 72).
marc45
G.O.A.T.
"they're as fast as federer"....yep, have a good night (do tell cilic and rusedski they're as fast as federer if you get that chance...rusedski is enough of an a-hole that he might play along...cilic i'm guessing would just give you a blank stare)
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Well they are, Federer is 31 years old with a bad back and a bad ankle and is not as fast as he once was. Rusedski in his prime was as fast as Federer is right now (if not as close to Federer's prime) and Cilic is just as fast as Federer, just ask John McEnroe.
Great anticipation, great hand skills, zero speed. You'll see when Federer hits 35 winners by him and Tomic scrapes 5-6 games that I'm right.
uncooling
Semi-Pro
lol, that's really funny.. Nieminen is ranked 70 and is 31 years old.
Mayer is also an old guy who isn't obviously a top player.
Matosevic is...?? Bands...??
and are you saying not getting broken by these guys is something worth talking about here when he's facing the Great Federer??
70 straight holds isn't impressive when he was playing just easy low-ranked players, so it should definitely not be discussed when we're arguing whether he'll beat federer or not. Just pointless facts..
RAFA2005RG
Banned
Too late, its already been discussed. You lost. And the fact is, Tomic has to do almost everything right to beat Federer. Serve poorly and he has almost no chance. And guess what? Tomic is serving extremely well, 26 aces included. So that is one box ticked. Everything is relevant on the checklist.
