Terre Battu
Rookie
Pam Shriver =)
Pam Shriver =)
Did Segura marry Federer? lol.
Incidentally are we just discussing Federer's peak or do we also include performances now? I've seen (it's not often) performances by Federer's forehand not that different from the performance against Djokovic the other day. Remember that Federer is an active player and we view him often. He may have some bad performances with the forehand. Do we ignore that? Things can change, like the number of majors he has. Segura is retired and many of the others like Lendl has retired so Lendl's average forehand performance is not going to change.
Federer's not guaranteed first place here so we shouldn't be upset if he is not number one here all the time. We can make excellent arguments for many on this list for number one. For example Lendl has an excellent argument to be number one. He won 82% of his lifetime matches. Won over 90 percent of his matches in many years. He won over 140 tournaments in his career and won eight majors. Do we deny his dominance? He's third on this list. That's not bad.
Au contraire, Fed's style and fh in particular are tailor-made for the older racquets. I really doubt Federer would be befuddled by one of Lendl's old sticks.
I've been watching some tennis from the 90s. I am trying to get a visual impression of court speeds relative to today by comparing baseliners from the 80s, 90s and 00s, which I may report at some point if I arrive at any conclusion.
Reading through this thread, I must say that I find Courier's forehand pretty underrated. It was an awesome and beautiful stroke, more economical than most, no floriture, at least as powerful as Sampras', but much more precise and consistent. Maybe the underrating I observe is due to his relatively short stay at the top. I am referring to his forehand especially when he was a top 3 player in 91-93.
Best forehand by the decades I am most familiar with:
1980s: Lendl, by far
1990s: Courier, by far
2000s: Federer
I would have a hard time choosing between those three, but I could very well choose Courier's today.
Agassi's, Chang's and Sampras' forehands render any "by far" characterizations pretty ridiculous!
Yes, well, maybe "by far" is a bit too far. But I do see Courier's forehand as the best of the 90s - while it lasted.
I have to give you credit for recognizing what most, who never saw him play, don't, that Courier did have a great forehand. Now here's the acid test, what do you think about Courier's backhand?
I think his backhand gets the job done pretty well and I’ve seen him hit great shots with it. I know it has been dismissed as very inferior but I don’t see that, and I don't think he would have become a top player for 3 years if it hadn’t worked well for him, as he had to use it a lot. Then again, having learned tennis relatively late with a one-handed bh from the start, I’ve never been able to understand how two-handed backhands are hit. Can't do it. It feels like trying to play tennis while handcuffed, so I can't comment much on the mechanics of that mysterious shot. The most incomprehensible to me, by far, is Nadal’s backhand. I like Nadal and his game allright, but his backhand looks impossibly cramped and uncomfortable to me.
Sometimes I think of two-handed backhands as a remnant from a childhood necessity. As if a child had never fully made the transition from crawling to walking. Some babies can half-crawl very fast at the age of 12-15 months, in a bouncy and complicated way that reminds me of chimps, and even after they learn how to walk, they sometimes resort back to that kind of crawling for a while if they really want to go fast and safe.
A 2hb is basically a left handed forehand (for a righty). If you let your left hand dominate and keep your right hand passive, you'll get the feel for it quickly. In addition, you can't swing from the shoulder with 2 hands on the racquet as you can with 1 hand on the racquet. Without bending your elbows, you can't move your hands more than a few inches from in front of your sternum. You have to swing with upper body rotation.
So, the 2 keys are: (1) left handed forehand, let the right arm be passive, and (2) swing with upper body rotation elbow bend.
Having said that, to me, Courier's backhand looks like a baseball swing with a truncated windup. And, it is very underrated on this forum.
1. Lendl
2. Borg
3. Nadal
4. Sampras
5. Laver
6. Agassi
7. Courier
8. Cochet
9. Tilden
10. Perry
11. Kramer
12. Santana
13. Johnston
14. Nastase
15. Segura/Federer
16. Vines
17. Newcombe
18. Gonzales
19. Gomez
20. Okker
21. Becker
22. Safin
23. del Potro
24. Blake
25. Budge
26. Muster
27. Moya
28. Wilander
29. Arias
30. Krickstein
31. Berasategui
(Just kidding.):wink:
Here's the latest list.1. Federer
2. Segura
3. Lendl
4. Borg
5. Nadal
6. Sampras
7. Laver
8. Agassi
9. Courier
10. Cochet
11. Tilden
12. Perry
13. Kramer
14. Santana
15. Johnston
16. Nastase
17. Vines
18. Newcombe
19. Gonzales
20. Gomez
21. Okker
22. Becker
23. Safin
24. del Potro
25. Blake
27. Budge
28. Muster
29. Moya
30. Arias
31. Krickstein
32. Berasategui
Managing a consensus takes time and patience: you have to put something out there, let it air for a time, watch the responses, then make adjustments.
Here's the latest list.
If Federer is #1 I think Nadal should be #2. I find it hard to pick between them.
Here's the latest list.
Here's the latest list.
Why is Sampras above Agassi and Courier?
Good point: is there more to a great forehand than sheer power?Del Potro though has the biggest forehand I've ever seen as far as sheer power...
Yep.In 1980-1981, Borg's forehand was the best on Tour, and was easily the most consistent shot on Tour. He also hit a lot of winners with it. It was also a deadly passing shot. His backhand was rated as second best on Tour, just behind the Connors backhand. It's easily in the top 5, along with the excellent forehands of Nadal, Federer, and Lendl. Segura and Laver should be in the top 10 as well.
Good point: is there more to a great forehand than sheer power?
And accuracy.Consistency, dictating play, setting up shots, etc. In terms of power though yeah I think 09 Del Potro was something outrageous.
Yes, two of the present best.24-minute highlight reel of the Nadal-Del Potro IW final. Appropiate to this thread because these are two of the best forehands in the game right now, and they were both striking the ball well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v175xvPMQzs
24-minute highlight reel of the Nadal-Del Potro IW final. Appropiate to this thread because these are two of the best forehands in the game right now, and they were both striking the ball well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v175xvPMQzs
Nadal wins "Forehand Festival"
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2013/03/12/Brain-Game-Nadal-Forehand-Indian-Wells.aspx
Berdych seems to have a great forehand . . . sometimes. But as often as I have witnessed his hitting amazing winners with it, at other times it is too flat and goes beyond the baseline.Yeah F. Gonzalez really used to unload it back in the day. Against Tommy Haas in the AO 2007 he had like 50+ winners, many of them forehands, and only a few errors. Very fast and powerful forehands. Can't decide if he or Del Potro hit it hardest. Then there's also the Soderlings and Berdyches.