3-3 in 4.5 tourneys: NTRP rating is ?

R

rufus_smith

Professional
Help settle an argument. If someone plays three local NTRP mens 4.5s single elimination tourneys and in each one they win the first match and lose the second. There were eight entrants in each tourney. There won-loss record is 3-3.

What rating level do you think they are at? 4.0 or 4.5
What would USTA say the are given only that information for the year?
 
OHBH

OHBH

Semi-Pro
rufus_smith said:
Help settle an argument. If someone plays three local NTRP mens 4.5s single elimination tourneys and in each one they win the first match and lose the second. There were eight entrants in each tourney. There won-loss record is 3-3.

What rating level do you think they are at? 4.0 or 4.5
What would USTA say the are given only that information for the year?
Click to expand...

I assume that would depend on the records of the opponents.
 
G

gameboy

Hall of Fame
USTA wouldn't say anything as W/L record has nothing to do with ratings.

You cannot know the ratings effect unless you know the ratings of both participants and the number of games won/lost.

With the number of players who play up in tournaments, your friend could be rated 3.5 for all we know.
 
N

NLBwell

Legend
If the tournament doesn't have a 4.0 division, oftentimes half or more than half of the guys in 4.5 are actually 4.0s. Since he's consistently doing better than 1/2 the guys, I would guess he is a very high 4.0.
 
goober

goober

Legend
His rating could be anywhere from 3.5-5.0 depending on the ratings of his opponents.

Assuming that all his opponents had actual 4.5 ratings he would be at a 4.5.

Problem is tourneys you run across a lot self rates and people playing up
 
R

rufus_smith

Professional
more info:

The 4.5 non-USTA singles league director wants to restrict it to 4.5 only but is hazy on the definition. So its either allowed to enter or not.

-in each match the player beat a non-seeded player then lost to the number one seed in the second match

-all the tourneys had a 4.0 division and an open division with plenty of entrants but no 5.0 division

-That's all I have for now. Does the USTA actually review opponents records to rate someone?

I would expect the person to have a 50/50 record in a 4.5 league since he had that 50/50 record in tourneys. Do you think he should be allowed in?
 
J

jdubbs

Hall of Fame
I mostly beat 4.0's and about .500 record againt 4.5's. so i think i'm a 4.5. Put it this way, i would rather play at 4.5 bc it would be a better challenge for me.
 
T

TennisCJC

Legend
If the opponents had 4.5 ratings and he has a 3-3 record against them, he is a 4.5 player. If he lost to 3 players rated 4.5 and beat 3 players rated 4.0 he is a good 4.0. So, the answer is it depends on real ratings of opponents. But, my guess is he should try 4.5 as he is competitive in 4.5 tournaments.
 
R

rufus_smith

Professional
Btw It is possible some true 5.0 players could also be playing in the 4.5 division as well since none entered the 5.0 division.
 
D

dizzlmcwizzl

Hall of Fame
Were the tournies ... USTA 4.5?

If so then you can easily look up his opponents ratings and get a good estimate.

If the tournies are not USTA sanctioned then really you could have almost anything in there.

Generally I see USTA sanctioned tournies are slightly lower in level than league play within USTA. What I mean by this is that if you play in a 4.5 tourney your opponent is more likely to be a very good 4.0 then a very good 4.5 ... although both levels are well represented and you could get either through luck of the draw.

However, if the tourney is not a USTA sanctioned event ... anything goes. In some tournies I have seen the "4.5 level" actually have mostly 3.5 rated USTA players.

You really need to look at the actual opponents.
 
R

Rob_C

Hall of Fame
rufus_smith said:
Btw It is possible some true 5.0 players could also be playing in the 4.5 division as well since none entered the 5.0 division.
Click to expand...

Doesnt Tennislink prevent people from entering tournaments below their rating?? Whenever I sign up for tournaments, no divisions below my rating show up, no matter how many divisions are being held.
 
R

rufus_smith

Professional
Rob_C said:
Doesnt Tennislink prevent people from entering tournaments below their rating?? Whenever I sign up for tournaments, no divisions below my rating show up, no matter how many divisions are being held.
Click to expand...

Yes, when you go to the registration page, tennislink does seem exclude checkboxes for NTRP divisions below your USTA-given rank.
 
cork_screw

cork_screw

Hall of Fame
rufus_smith said:
Help settle an argument. If someone plays three local NTRP mens 4.5s single elimination tourneys and in each one they win the first match and lose the second. There were eight entrants in each tourney. There won-loss record is 3-3.

What rating level do you think they are at? 4.0 or 4.5
What would USTA say the are given only that information for the year?
Click to expand...

Well if they are 3-3 and actually won 3 matches against players ranked as 4.5 ntrp, then they are what they say they are. There are teams in the NBA who are at .500 and have lost to half of the teams they won but that doesn't mean they should be in the D league. Let me put it this way. It is impossible for everyone to be over .500 because someone has to lose in a the standings. If he was 0-6 then yes he might have inflated his NTRP, but I dont' understand why you think he's less because he's .500 against what his challengers.
 
G

gameboy

Hall of Fame
Perhaps you should read other posts before just jumping in...

There is absolutely no guarantees that players in a 4.5 tourney are 4.5 players. Any lower level players can play higher level tourneys.

Following your example, it would be like playing in an "NBA" tourney where there are one or two NBA teams and rest are comprised of college teams. Having a .500 record in that tourney would by no means that a team is NBA caliber.
 
J

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
rufus_smith said:
Does the USTA actually review opponents records to rate someone?
Click to expand...

Not their records, they check the opponents' ratings. Records are irrelevant except that there is a correlation (although not perfect) between record and rating. And it's all done by computer, so there is no need for a person to physically review anything.
 
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