10-and-under rules

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by fitmom, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. fitmom

    fitmom New User

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  2. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    thanks for the link, but this has been discussed to death here.

    QS blah blah blah.......good for training tool blah blah blah..... should not be mandated blah blah blah but playing up using green blah blah blah etc........
     
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  3. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I have to disagree ProTour.....her post just blew this discussion WIDE OPEN.

    Turns out Henin and Cljisters did NOT play what we call mini tennis or Quickstart. They played the mini tennis the pros use to warm up. Night and day difference. Lots of people confuse the two things since they can be both called mini tennis.

    So these pros were taught touch tennis from the service lines using yellow balls, just like my daughter and I have done at times since age 3. This means to me the USTA and LTA have completely misread this thing. Touch tennis causes little kids to move their feet like demons and movement is the cornerstone of tennis. And touch tennis allows the coach to drum in the proper stroke i slow motion and also getting into the right position. Then you move them to the baseline later in the practice and let them blast away....so you work both power and control.

    “[Tim] Henman brought [Xavier] Malisse to the [tennis] academy (Henman is a patron there). Malisse said it [Mini-Tennis] was all a big marketing ploy to get the buy-in from parents. Malisse, Henin and [Kim] Clijsters all agreed to hit a few balls for the cameras but as for training when they were kids . . . no way. They played touch tennis in the service boxes but with a yellow ball. The drills he showed me were corner to corner FH to FH or BH to BH. Otherwise they would draw a small rectangle in the clay and have a line as a net and play on that! None of the above involves any cost! Mini tennis is a branding and marketing man’s dream and that is what it has been the whole time!"
     
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  4. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    this was from a tennis UK dad saying this, how do we know this is true:confused: ( because crazy malise and UK tennis dad said so) besides who cares if they did or not, there are many other pros saying they used softer balls when they grew up, do not have to cite them again,
     
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  5. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Protour....this is very important and bigger than who is right or wrong. Please let me explain.

    Mini tennis means 2 very different things. In one, touch tennis, a yellow ball is used, a well trained coach teaches kids to touch and brush up on the ball using a full stroke in slow motion. The coach gradually moves the kids side to side, FH to FH and BH to BH. Proper yet very quick foot movement and text book strokes are promoted. And yes, softer low compression ball can be used at first if needed which is what those pros meant.

    The other is Quickstart mini tennis which allows kids to hit with each other by making the balls slow and the courts tiny. It is designed to allow kids to start 'playing tennis' right away. It allows for all sorts of strokes and sometimes kids do not move more than a foot in either direction.

    This is a big deal. The two types of mini tennis are 100% different and promote different things. Touch tennis requires proper strokes and movement, Quickstart can allow kids to just tap back and forth for plastic trophies. What Henin did promotes technique with the feet and strokes, Quicckstart promotes early competition instead. The difference in what a kid learns after 6 months in either is night and day.

    IF the USTA and LTA have allowed equipment manufacturers to confused these 2 things and lead people to believe Henin and others developed using the Quickstart type of mini tennis rather than the coach led touch tennis, that is really bad.

    We both want to find the best way to train kids the right way. If that way is touch tennis and requires very well trained coaches and we instead confuse it with early competition using red and orange balls as the way to make good players......thats sending US tennis in the totally wrong direction.
     
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  6. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    Let me get this straight, parenting MOM interviews UK dad who interviews crazy Malisse who said so:roll: Did malisse grow up with the belgian girls since they were kids 4-10 or did he see them at a belgian academy when they were developed like everyone else:confused: NOW because of this new found info you just received from parenting MOM this whole QS debate all of the sudden is wide open, you were convinced before but now you are not :confused: common TCF......

    This whole QS debate is not centered on what the belgian girls have used, it was developed after many many years of research, not because of what the belgian girls did at a young age.
     
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  7. Pro_Tour_630

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  8. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I am disappointed Protour, I thought you would be more interested in discussing the right way to train kids rather than us bickering over semantics or who is more right or more wrong. We have a chance to add to Quickstart if we find out touch tennis is also a vital part. We do not need to cancel Quickstart....but perhaps add to the program.

    France and Belgium do use 10 and under tennis. But what if they also have well trained coaches who lay the foundation with touch tennis? Whether using low compression or yellow balls, touch tennis is its own dynamic.

    So if the US is setting up Quickstart tennis but missing the key ingredient of also training coaches how to use touch tennis and why it is important we need to understand this. Touch tennis is an amazing tool that should also be taught to Quickstart coaches.

    I am not debating if slow balls are used, or if there is some competitive format of small courts in other countries. But the touch tennis training aspect is a vital component.

    What that British parent says, with specific details accurately describing how touch tennis is used, does give him some credibility. If how Henin was trained using touch mini tennis has been confused with Quickstart style mini tennis, we need to confirm or deny that. Why spend millions on Quickstart if we are leaving out a huge part off the process?
     
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  9. Pro_Tour_630

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  10. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Ms. King is not an expert in developing kids. She is am amazing woman and loves tennis. She promotes tennis like no other. She hit with my daughter at Villanova 2 years ago. Super nice lady.

    She is NOT a marketing ploy BUT she is irrelevant to this discussion. She is being asked to promote the program, and is not addressing specifics.

    Protour.....touch tennis is not used by many kids coaches in the US, it simply is not. If you asked most kids coaches what is mini tennis, Quickstart, touch tennis I bet you would get all sots of conflicting answers. It does not appear to be fully explained in any of the Quickstart videos shot by the USTA.

    I am addressing what could be an flaw in the US plan for teaching kids tennis.....that MAYBE they have overlooked what is meant by mini tennis and need to make sure all Quickstart coaches know how to teach touch tennis before moving on to Quickstart.

    Lets not make this who is right or wrong. Lets figure it out.
     
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  11. Pro_Tour_630

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    this is the heart of the matter, I would not hit with a three year old using NEW yellow ball it is crazy, if it were used or flat maybe yes but then again it is like colored balls so the argument is futile. an average parent can not control a new yellow ball using a racquet and hit FH FH BH BH and place it perfectly on a three year old and I am not even going to go into the health reason why they should not be using NEW yellow balls on a 3 year old kid who should be using a 19inch frame. You can because you are an expert at touch but 99.9% can't and shouldn't.
     
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  12. Pro_Tour_630

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    QS is a formate used in competition, and in competition they do not want kids taking big cuts at a new yellow ball and have it sail to no avail and hurt their arms.

    Touch tennis is a very specific training drill, it has nothing to do with a formate in competition. If you tell me to use touch tennis on a three year old using NEW yellow balls I would cringe. :cry:

    I would take what billy jean king have to say over some UK tennis dad and malisse, sorry
     
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  13. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Touch tennis is barely brushing up on the ball, there is almost no impact and no health issues if done right. Its super slo motion. Kids have 100 other ways to get hurt worse than that!

    You are missing the bigger picture. Yes, most would and do use foam balls or other slow balls at first. And yes not many 3 year olds could do what we did. That is not the point.

    The point is the actual technique of how and why to use touch tennis seems to be missing from the program....no matter what kind of balls are used.
     
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  14. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    the first thing a kid wants to do is smack the heck out of a ball like a bat, not barely brush up against a ball in slow and exaggerated motion.

    I have not seen a three year old barely brushing up against a NEW yellow ball that is bouncing over their heads 99.99 % of the time over a 3 foot net. You and your daughter can, but 99.9% can't and are unable to do so.
     
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  15. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    the billy jean king national tennis center, the largest public tennis center in the world for developing Jr.s and she is not an expert on developing jr. but UK tennis dad and malisse is:confused: just because a kid brush up against a ball on touch tennis :confused:
     
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  16. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    The last several posts on this thread are why I am now going to log out and never, ever return to this forum.
     
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  17. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    OK everyone can go home now it is settled thread closed, martina Navratilova said so regarding henin and clijster using this formate

    I would take what martina an expert on Jr development has to say over Uhmmmm a UK dad and a nut case like malisse :roll:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky2wPBLgVqY&feature=relmfu
     
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  18. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    You need a hug from somebody. Or something that will cheer you up.
     
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  19. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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  20. Pro_Tour_630

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    TCF you have said you are leaving a thousand times only to come back, please come back. I will ask the USTA to incorporate yet another one of your ideas into their promo, would that make you happy? :)

    here is a serious five year old with professional training brushing up on her FH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m990BhpzFwg LOL.......using a combination of yellow ball and orange trainers that are heavy like yellow balls but a little flat
     
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  21. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    #21
  22. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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  23. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    She? It's the federations, man. The USTA, the LTA, et al.
    Oh, and poor Billie Jean King, tennis pros everywhere have trouble spelling her first name.

    LOL! Reminds me of what Buddy the elf said to the raccoon in Elf.

    Hilarious post, man! Thanks for your contributions and thanks for the laughs!
     
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  24. Dadof10s

    Dadof10s Banned

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    I do not think that is the touch tennis being talked about here. My nephew's coach used what he called touch tennis back when he was 8 and it did not look like that. His coach would softly place balls back to him and all the time tell him to move to the ball and gently stroke it back. His coach would remind him almost every time to use full but soft strokes. He would tell the kids to hit the balls back to him very soft and he had a big basket of balls and would grab more if they did not hit it back. Those videos are not the same as the mini touch tennis his coach used.
     
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  25. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    thanks for clearing this up:)

    I was being facetious :oops:

    placing balls softly and strategically within mini tennis with racquet to 3-7 year olds with new regulation balls is easier said than done, and I am a 5.0 player who has been playing for 30 years. It is not hitting but brushing, very hard to do and technique has to be perfect for success and maintaining a beneficial rally. I sometimes struggle with my advanced 9 year old with this drill. We do it for five minutes to warm up but then he gets board. Maybe I am doing something wrong. We also do this drill http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9eNJBzptZ0 where we have to bounce the ball back and sometimes we do silly trick shots. Stressing technique/brushing on mini tennis using regulation for 1/2 hour is too much for 3-7 year old kids, I think
     
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  26. Dadof10s

    Dadof10s Banned

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    Sorry about that, I did not realize you were kidding. My bad.
     
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  27. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    yes we know that but I would take her word over anything tennis related than Uhmmm ponytail X man with issues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe6uLXaAnhQ and some UK purist tennis dad that hates anything related to QS:roll:
     
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  28. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    never ever coming back , you were back within few hours :)


     
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  29. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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  30. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    The maturity continues to increase!
     
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  31. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    quickstart should be based on ability not age.I will continue using green dot balls with my 6 year old.He isnt ready for regulation balls yet.My daughter just turned 10 and she never used quickstart balls.I didnt even know about quickstart balls when she was 4,5,6.If I would have I probably would have used them with her until she was 8.
     
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  32. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    please share with us the frustrations that you had with your daughter doing the touch tennis drill when she was 3,4,5,6,7,8 thank you
     
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  33. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    she could keep it going playing mini tennis at 5 or 6 but it wasnt a good grab ball with good racket head speed.Now she does it like a pro.It takes time for kids to learn how to shorten up their strokes and do this drill correctly.
     
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  34. Pro_Tour_630

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    how hard was it for you to keep giving her a proper stroke and well placed softened shot? and how much easier and fun and it could have been say had you been using green. That is the point I am making. TCF is telling us he did this drill with his three year old kid using yellow, then he said it can be one shot or few shots:confused:, I say the importance of this drill is to brush up on the ball in mini for as long period of time moving side to side and using proper strokes otherwise it is just a one shot stroke you are learning.
     
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  35. gplracer

    gplracer Professional

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    ga tennis does your daughter play tournaments in ga?
     
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  36. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    not very many
     
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