15 greatest players of all time

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by capriatifanatic, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,370
    Bruce Jenkins in the 'San Francisco Chronicle' gives a readable list of his male top ten. His question is, whether Agassi ranks in the top ten.
    http:/www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/09/13/SPGGPL4KST1.DTL
     
    #51
  2. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,889
    Thanks for posting that.

    Some excerpts:

    Richey Reneberg, a Davis Cup teammate of Agassi's, made this observation a few years back: "The last person out there in the same league as Andre in hand-eye coordination was McEnroe. The only person in Andre's league as a serve returner was Connors. But he doesn't really play like either one of those guys. I've never seen anyone with Andre's ability to hold his position on the baseline and not give an inch. He can take a deep shot on the half-volley from there and hit it as if he were swinging at hip level, like a normal ground stroke. Because of that, he can dictate points like nobody I've ever seen."

    Steve Flink

    Sampras, Laver, Kramer, Tilden, Borg, Budge, Gonzalez, Connors, McEnroe, (tie) Lendl and Agassi

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/09/13/SPGGPL4KST1.DTL

    Steve Flink had a top 10 list in his book "greatest matches of the 20th century" published in '99. The list was exactly the same as this new list, except Lendl & Perry were tied for 10 in the old list, now he has Agassi & Lendl tied.
     
    #52
  3. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    878

    The #3 and #4 players of the 35 year Open Era behind Sampras, Federer:

    Bjorn Borg will ALWAYS be best remembered for:

    • his 5 consecutive Wimbledon titles after so many of the critics said his game was too brittle for grass courts.

    • his epic finals at Wimbledon and the U.S. Open vs. Connors and McEnroe.

    • the battle of 18-16 (4th set tiebreak vs. McEnroe at Wimbledon 1980).

    • his all-time record 6 French Open singles titles.

    • his failure to win a Grand Slam event outside of Europe's 2 Slams.

    • his leaving the game early when he wanted to go part-time on the circuit like Venus and Serena have been doing in the women's game.

    • his 8 consecutive years winning a Grand Slam singles title (matches all-time record he shares with Sampras).

    • his great showdown in the WCT Final vs. John Newcombe in 1974 at the age of 17 with Newcombe winning 4-6, 6-3, 6-3, 6-2 to fulfill the pledge Newcombe had made after winning the 1973 U.S. Open at Forest Hills in 1973 to become the #1 player in the world again. (The only other 2 times Borg and Newcombe played other than some World Grass Court Championship exhibitions after the French and before Wimbledon in the 1970s as a tuneup for Wimbledon -- which Newcombe won, by the way -- were a WCT Challenge Cup match in Hawaii (which Borg won) and a round robin match in the 1974 Grand Prix Masters (now, Masters Cup ATP Tour Championship) which Newcombe won at Kooyong Stadium in Melbourne in December 1974 by a score of 7-6, 7-6.)

    • that rare switch from a one-handed backhand to a two-handed backhand after he had already joined the Tour.

    • the headband.

    • the stripes and checks that did not go together.

    • becoming the only man (until Sampras) to win more than 10 Grand Slam singles titles all during the Open Era.

    • the backhand with almost a knee touching the group using that extreme western grip.

    • the teenage groupies who crowded him at every event.

    • the Showdown of the Ages (4th round of the 1975 U.S. Open at Forest Hills) matching Borg vs. Laver ... won by Borg 6-4, 2-6, 6-2 back when only the final round was best of 5 sets at the U.S. Open. (The only other times Borg and Laver played were the SF of the WCT Final in 1975 with Borg winning that one 7-6, 3-6, 5-7, 7-6, 6-2 before losing to Ashe in the final round and then the quarterfinals of the American Airlines Tennis Games -- predecessor to Indian Wells -- played in Palm Springs, California with Borg beating Laver in that one 6-2, 6-7, 7-6).

    • being the #1 player of the 1970s decade (ahead of Jimmy Connors, John Newcombe, Ken Rosewall in the #2-#4 slots) and being the #2 player of the Open Era (behind only Pete Sampras) in the 35 years of the Open Era to this point.




    Ivan Lendl will ALWAYS be best remembered for:

    • his incredible 8 consecutive finals at the U.S. Open ...

    • his failure to win at THE CHAMPIONSHIPS ...

    • his dramatic come-from-behind win keeping McEnroe from winning a French Open (3-6, 2-6, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5 in the final).

    • his winning records head-to-head over the top Americans -- Arthur Ashe (1-0) ... Stan Smith (2-1) ... John McEnroe (21-15) ... Jimmy Connors (22-13) ... Andre Agassi (6-2) ... Jim Courier (4-0) ... and Michael Chang (5-2) until Sampras came along with a 5-3 winning edge over Lendl.

    • his 5 ATP Tour Championships (tied with Sampras for all-time record).

    • his 11 consecutive years in a Grand Slam singles final (tied with Sampras for all-time record).
     
    #53
  4. justineheninhoogenbandfan

    justineheninhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    898
    I think McEnroe is much too high on pure accomplishments and longevity.
     
    #54
  5. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    878

    Bill Tilden was the #1 player of the first 100 years of tennis without ever winning a French or even playing the Australian ... while Rod Laver and Roy Emerson won all 4 Slams at least twice.

    Some greatness is not reflected in the Grand Slam events at all. Ellsworth Vines, Fred Perry, Don Budge, Jack Kramer, Pancho Gonzales, Ken Rosewall and Lew Hoad are 7 of the all-time greatest players in tennis history but their resumes have some major holes and deficiencies in them because they missed so many Grand Slam events .. Rosewall winning Slams 19 years apart and winning 8 Slams while missing over 11 years from the Grand Slam events says a lot.
     
    #55
  6. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    878
    Navratilova and Graf played 3 matches on grass with the only one not going 3 sets won by Navratilova (1987 Wimbledon final). Then, Graf won the 1988 and the 1989 Wimbledon finals in 3 sets over Martina Navratilova to win her first 2 after Navratilova had already won over the 10 previous years with the exception of Goolagong and Evert both winning one.

    From the beginning of 1987 (as Graf hit her best 3 years 1987-1989 just as Navratilova had done 5 years earlier in 1982-1984) they were TIED on hardcourts (2-2 and Navratilova led in Grand Slam singles matches on hardcourts in those years 2-1 with wins over Graf in their 1987 U.S. Open final and in their 1991 U.S. Open semifinal) ... they only played one match on clay ... and then they had the 3 Wimbledon finals in Graf's prime years of 1987, 1988 and 1989 with Navratilova winning the one in 1987 and Graf winning the ones in 1988 and 1989.

    Except for the 4 match wins by Graf in her best years of 1988 and 1989 (all were in split set matches) ... Navratilova led 9-5 and they split the last 4 in the 1990s with, again, Navratilova winning the only one in a Grand Slam event.

    Navratilova won 5 out of 7 on hardcourts vs. Graf (including 4 out of 5 a the U.S. Open) .. with Navratilova beating Graf in the 1985, 1986, 1987 and 1991 U.S. Open events while only losing once -- the 1989 U.S. Open final -- and her only loss to Graf at the U.S. Open was in 3 sets.

    Navratilova and Graf were 3-3 indoors. In their 3 matches at the biggest indoor event in the world (the WTA Tour Championships) Navratilova won twice in straight sets and Graf won once in split sets.

    Navratilova was 8 to 10 years past her prime and still they went 2-2 in the 1990s with Navratilova winning their only match during the 1990s in a Grand Slam event.
     
    #56
  7. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,889
    I believe Lendl has the record of most consecutive years with a tour title(14)
     
    #57
  8. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    878

    Ivan Lendl is often underrated -- although not as much as guys like Ken Rosewall, Don Budge, Fred Perry, Jack Kramer, Pancho Gonzales, Ellsworth Vines, Vincent Richards and Lew Hoad.
     
    #58
  9. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    13,949
    :mrgreen: I couldnt believe that they said that Lendl's success runs at the U.S Open was because he hired the same workers who laid the hardcourt surfaces in Flushing meadows, to put the exact type of court in his home in LI.Maybe Fed should hire someone to put the same exact french open courts to his home:D
     
    #59
  10. J.Z. Smith

    J.Z. Smith Guest

    Vinnie Richards would be more than honored to be placed in that group. He was a fine player, no doubt, and a historically important figure in tennis -- the first American player of note to turn professional -- but nowhere near the level of those other guys. I agree with you on the rest, chronically underrated all, if not wholly unknown by most. Gonzales may be the exception. His reputation alone seems to have grown in recent years, thanks in no small part to his legion of enthusiastic proponents on the Internet. The Gonzales PR boom has come largely at the expense of Kramer, and to a lesser extent Vines and Budge.
     
    #60
  11. BluBarry

    BluBarry Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Location:
    Outside the Box
    That's if you consider 3 out of 8 successful. Maybe he should have gotten the same gardener that the Lawn and Garden Club used. :cool:
     
    #61
  12. slack hack

    slack hack Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    152
    At their best, I say Federer and Mandlikova kick anybody's *** !!!! except for maybe Rios'
     
    #62
  13. lambielspins

    lambielspins Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,715
    You are wrong on that. Navratilova age 30 or older played Graf 7 times in a Grand Slam or WTA Championships. Navratilova won 3 and Graf 4, so not a winning record for Navratilova as you say.
     
    #63
  14. EuroMagnum

    EuroMagnum Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    291
    1.) Federer
    2.) Laver
    3.) Sampras
    4.) Perry
    5.) Borg
    6.) Becker
    7.) Gonzales
    8.) Agassi
    9.) Lacoste
    10.) Connors
    11.) McEnroe
    12.) Ashe
    13.) Laver
    14.) Rosewall
    15.) Tilden
     
    #64
  15. BluBarry

    BluBarry Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Location:
    Outside the Box
    Good List but curious how you'd place Roger Federer at the top when he really hasn't breaken Slam Records as yet other than 3peating Wimby & USO ?
    He has broken the most weeks at #1 yet and Pete has 14 Slam Titles. Also he has failed to wim the French thus far (although we are certain he will at some point) so what do you base your pick of RogFire at #1 ?

    NOT a criticism just a question ....
     
    #65
  16. jmsx521

    jmsx521 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,496
    Need more thorough explanations

    When you people write these names, write on what you are basing the ranking: on winning The Grand Slam, winning Grand Slam tournaments, #1 rankings at the end of the year, number of tournaments won, etc.
     
    #66
  17. BluBarry

    BluBarry Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Location:
    Outside the Box
    You got my Vote ;)
     
    #67
  18. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    878
    lambielspins replies:

    You are wrong on that !

    Well, let's COUNT them then:

    GRAND SLAM EVENTS

    First, we will start with the Grand Slam events --- let's limit the results to the Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon and U.S. Open Championships --- since these actually are the Grand Slam events:

    1985-08-26 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Navratilova won 6-2 6-3
    1986-08-25 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Navratilova won 6-1 6-7 7-6
    1987-05-25 French Open Clay F Steffi Graf won 6-4 4-6 8-6
    1987-06-22 Wimbledon Grass F Navratilova won 7-5 6-3
    1987-08-31 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Navratilova won 7-6 6-1
    1988-06-22 Wimbledon Grass F Steffi Graf won 5-7 6-2 6-1
    1989-06-26 Wimbledon Grass F Steffi Graf won 6-2 6-7 6-1
    1989-08-28 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Steffi Graf won 3-6 7-5 6-1
    1991-08-26 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Navratilova won 7-6 6-7 6-4

    Not only a winning record for Navratilova vs. Graf in the Grand Slam events ... Navratilova won their only matches at the Grand Slam events that were won in straight sets ... 3 of Navratilova's 5 match wins vs. Graf in Grand Slam events were won in straight sets ... Graf never beat Navratilova in straight sets in a Grand Slam event --- but then, Graf only won 4 matches against Navratilova in Grand Slam events to begin with.


    TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS

    Next, we will look at the Tour Championships --- let's limit the results to the singles since Steffi Graf did not play doubles -- even with Gunther Parche.

    1986-03-17 Virginia Slims Championships SF Navratilova won 6-2 6-2
    1986-11-17 Virginia Slims Championships F Navratilova won 7-6 6-3 6-2
    1989-11-13 Virginia Slims Championships F Steffi Graf won 6-4 7-5 2-6 6-2

    Not only a winning record for Navratilova vs. Graf in the Tour Championships ... Navratilova won their only matches at the Tour Championships that were won in straight sets ... both of Navratilova's 2 match wins vs. Graf in the WTA Tour Championships were won in straight sets ... Graf never beat Navratilova in straight sets the WTA Tour Championships --- but then, Graf only won 1 match against Navratilova at the WTA Tour Championships to begin with.

    You had better come with your facts straight and you had better come knowing what we are talking about before you do more of your silly little game of ready, fire and then aim (and in that order) ...
     
    #68
  19. justineheninhoogenbandfan

    justineheninhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    898
    What impresses me most about Navratilova is not only how long she mantained a high level, but doing it in doubles and mixed doubles as well. Then after the singles was over, still doing it in doubles and mixed doubles. She really had an unbelievable passion for the game, it was in her blood, and she always wanted to learn more and improve. She said in an interview last year she still was learning things about strokes and the game.
     
    #69
  20. justineheninhoogenbandfan

    justineheninhoogenbandfan Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    898
    For brilliance I would add Maureen Connoly as well, who won 9 straight slams she entered from 1951 to 1954, from ages 16 to 19, including the Grand Slam in 1953 before an accident left her crippled. Her and Seles each having their primes cut short is an interesting irony, since their game styles were so incredably similar. Both blasted incredably hard low flat shots from both sides off the ground, were incredably mentaly tough, incredably focused, did not come to net much, Connoly did not hit two hands off both sides like Seles did, but other then that they were almost carbon copies in style.
     
    #70
  21. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    878
    True.
     
    #71
  22. callitout

    callitout Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,303
    I got to this thread a little late can I vote for Donald Young 15 times.
     
    #72
  23. Lleyton Hewitt

    Lleyton Hewitt Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    950
    whos won the most grand slams ever?
     
    #73
  24. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    ATP, you never answered my remarks from the "Sampras is a Monster" thread. In it, you stated Agassi's wins at the French and Wimbledon were flukes. You also remark Agassi was not that good of a player and he did not do anything in his career.

    I then stated Sampras' 14 slam victories, according to you can't be that impressive because 4 of them came off Agassi. Also, those 20 wins against Agassi you like to ramble on about are also not that impressive becasue they are against an "inferior ", "sucky" opponent.

    Just wanted to remind you, even though you tucked your tail between you legs and ran,,,,,,,"I am watching you! YOU ARE OUTSIDE THE CIRCLE OF TRUST".
     
    #74
  25. BluBarry

    BluBarry Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Location:
    Outside the Box
    It amazes me why people are even responding to his madness. I discontinued discussing anything with him/her and all the better for it. Now I'm starting wonder if other IDs might be him answering himself to keep things going ? I've seen that before as well ...
     
    #75
  26. TsongaEatingAPineappleLol

    TsongaEatingAPineappleLol Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    My picks

    1. Roger Federer
    2. Rafael Nadal
    3. Pete Sampras
    4. Bjorn Borg
    5. Jimmy Connors
    6. John McEnroe
    7. Mats Wilander
    8. Ivan Lendl
    9. Roy Emerson
    10. Andre Agassi
    11. Arthur Ashe
    12. Rod Laver
    13. Jim Courier
    14. Pat Cash
    15. Bill Tilden
     
    #76
  27. Connors

    Connors Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    330

    Horrible list. First of all, Graf is either number one or two. Secondly, Davenport achieved FAR more than Capriati--what are you smoking?? Thirdly, Sanchez-Vicario had a great career (including doubles). She made it to 11 grand slam finals I believe

    Fourth, Federer is already one of the top three. He's far superior to Rosewall, you knucklehead. Fifth, Connors won more tournaments than ANY men's player in history, so that certainly puts him higher than 13th. Sixth, Agassi, Connors, Lendl and Mac were all better than Kramer. You have him way too high. Seventh, Federer has already surpassed Borg, in longevity, in career Grand Slams and with his better overall game than Bjorn. There are many, mnay other problems with both of your lists. I'd give it a C-, D+.
     
    #77
  28. cokebottle

    cokebottle Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    107
    Graf is a loser. She won all her titles beating clowns like Sabatini, Sanchez, a baby Seles, a post stabbing Seles, a granny Navratilova, a granny Evert, Novotna, a baby Hingis, Cowchita Martinez, Date, a tubby Davenport before she became good, a nutty Pierce, Anke Huber, Iva Majoli, Zvereva, Fernandez, the Maleeva mediocre sisters, and a baby Capriati. She isnt even close to one of the best ever.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
    #78
  29. federerdomination

    federerdomination Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    705
    Just because u have a losing record to somebody doesn't mean that you shouldn't be considered at GOAT. I'm sure almost all the candidates have a losing record to somebody.
     
    #79
  30. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    He has a lopsided record against his nearest competitor.

    This is not akin to having a 2-4 record against some random player, where the majority of matches come either early or at the end of one's career. Where the sample is small and unrepresentative. Where the results account for matches played in minor and irrelevant tournaments.

    Not the case here. Federer is losing big matches to the other best in the game.
     
    #80
  31. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I think he's pretty brave. But when we compare and contrast between the really-truly-very best, we have to be really cruel. So we pick apart the little details. One wart comes up and we focus in on it.

    Borg also had difficulties with McEnroe - exascerbated by tactical problems as well. With Borg the return was an issue, as well as dealing with Mac's volley. Both cases have other matters involved - Roger's health; Borg's burnout, etc.

    Both are brave, but more and more unwilling to change with age. It's a kind of old-fogeyism. It's probably not a matter of confidence or willingness (especially in Roger's case). When you're very young and have never been on top before, you're willing to try all kinds of things to change things up. But when you've been the best, you sometimes convince yourself that you have to keep doing what you've always done in order to get back to being the best.

    This is probably Roger's problem. Connors had this problem and eventually learned his lesson and made large-scale changes in 1982.
     
    #81
  32. federerdomination

    federerdomination Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    705
    Yeah but once again, most of the meetings are on clay. Also, their last five meetings have happened as Nadal has entered his prime (while Federer has begun to decline)
     
    #82
  33. okdude1992

    okdude1992 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,260
    how could you put capriati in over venus, or hingis? even henin would be more qualified than capriati your mens list seems fair i guess... but federer agassio and conners seem pretty low down
    edit: holy crap didn't see how old this thread is!
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
    #83
  34. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    The decline has been a little too sharp. Of course, Roger can still salvage this. Nadal will not always play as well as he is now. He will not always be in as good a shape or health as he is now.
     
    #84
  35. icedevil0289

    icedevil0289 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    5,793
    Location:
    New Jersey
    atleast fed did not walk away even before the ceremony started like borg did and retire because he could not take being number 1, atleast according to the sources. However, I guess theres more than just not being number 1 that made Borg retire early.
     
    #85
  36. miniRafa386

    miniRafa386 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,689
    you cant count when AUS and USO were on grass, it should only be open era cause anything before is basically invalid.
     
    #86
  37. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Oh, stop. Go and read a book - you have your facts wrong.

    What sources? Some guy on a message board posted this once and now you're parrotting it?
     
    #87
  38. RFdaBest

    RFdaBest Guest

    Cyborg, this is an excellent post. Thanks for sharing, I never got to appreciate tennis of the old days. I really had no idea Borg suffered like roger, from what i heard he was a robot and never choked :neutral:
     
    #88
  39. srinrajesh

    srinrajesh Guest

    Martina Navratilova was definitely better than graf because of her longevity.
    Martina also won 6 grand slams in a row in 83-84 to rival Graf's calendar slam in 1988 and overall graf won 5 straight GS before losing in FO final to Arantxa sanchez.
     
    #89
  40. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,016
    Location:
    Weak era
    Interesting way of looking at things,enjoyed reading this post,.Hope Fed realizes it's time for changes now and gets a good coach who can offer some different perspective.I know Fed is primarily a baseliner who rellies on movement and anticipation more than most people realize but I still think he has the game for longevity,as long as he hangs in there mentally and doesn't get discouraged from his numerous losses to Nadal.
     
    #90
  41. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,016
    Location:
    Weak era
    He did suffer,otherwise he wouldn't retire so young.However it certainly wasn't just Mcenroe no matter if it looks like that,there were multiple other factors as well,things are never that simple as people want to believe.If you don't show your emotions that doesn't mean that they aren't there as obviously different people have different ways of showing them.
     
    #91
  42. flying24

    flying24 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,924
    Men:

    1. Rod Laver
    2. Don Budge
    3. Ken Rosewall
    4. Pancho Gonzales
    5. Bill Tilden
    6. Bjorn Borg
    7. Roger Federer
    8. Pete Sampras
    9. Ivan Lendl
    10. Jimmy Connors
    11. John McEnroe
    12. Jack Kramer
    13. Rafael Nadal
    14. Henri Cochet
    15. Rene LaCoste


    Women:

    1. Steffi Graf
    2. Margaret Court
    3. Martina Navratilova
    4. Chris Evert
    5. Suzanne Lenglen
    6. Helen Wills Moody
    7. Maureen Connolly
    8. Billie Jean King
    9. Serena Williams
    10. Monica Seles
    11. Maria Bueno
    12. Evonne Goolagong
    13. Justine Henin
    14. Alice Marble
    15. Venus Williams
     
    #92
  43. 127mph

    127mph Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    777
    everyone loosing their heads putting federer under borg and tilden. if anything hes third. 13 slam titles. 5 and 5 at wimbledon and US. 3 finals of french. only lost to one player in slam finals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
    #93
  44. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,776
    Location:
    shiran
    #94
  45. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,294
    1) Gonzalez 2) Laver 3) Tilden 4) Budge 5) Sampras

    These are the guys who truely dominated almost a decade. Top 5 deserves seperate place among all time greats.

    Top 4 guys won nearly 20 majors (slams + pro slams).

    Laver at #2 because he played in transitional period.

    Sampras' achievement is a child-play compared to top 4 guys: only 14 majors and 6+ year at #1. BUT he is the only guy in this group who had "official" professional ranking and fully professional slams.
     
    #95
  46. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,476
    All i know is that Federer is not 7/8 or something.
    He belongs around 2 or 3 right after the guys who won calendar year grand slams.

    Pete Sampras is slightly below the list. While he still has one more slam more than Federer, that doesnt just cut it(not to mention his record isnt as great as Federer's in Clay)
     
    #96
  47. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Federer is at most the #8 player of all time. There is no way he can placed over any of Laver, Tilden, Budge, Borg, Sampras, Rosewall, or Gonzales at this moment. I think he is #8 though behind those 7. He has to achieve more to move higher than that.
     
    #97
  48. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,689
    Fed's positioning on the GOAT list should be determined prolly after he retires. If Fed were to retire today by never defeating Nadal again at the slams or never winning an RG that hurts his legacy IMO.

    But thats me.
     
    #98
  49. capriatifanatic

    capriatifanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    645
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2009
    #99
  50. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,012
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Henin and Seles Frequently beat Capriati at her best, 2003 US Open semis Capriati was 2 points from victory 10 times against a dehydrated Henin and couldn't close out the deal. She failed to beat an injured Dementieva at that same stage the following year. Thats not really overpowering to me. Also, Henin won 5 of her 7 matches against Capriati so Capriati overall wasn't really a match for Henin. Henin won most of their matches in the end because she was a much better player.

    As for Monica, Monica leads the Head to Head 9-5 (4-3 post stabbing), and in Capriatis "Best" (interchangeable with lucky) year of 2001, Seles lead her head to head with Jennifer 2-1 that year. Even when Jennifer appeared at her best, she couldn't beat a clearly past her prime Seles consistantly. Capriati was never overpowering against any of her main threats with the possible exception of Hingis, who didn't hit the ball that hard anyway, and Capriati still often struggled with her. Capriati's three slams were the result of being lucky Hingis and Clijsters both gagged away their chances in 2 of them. In all honesty Capriati should have just won the 1 slam, and she was incredibly lucky to get 3. As for putting her top 5...all of the top 5 won at least 18 majors...Jennifer just doesn't stack up.
     

Share This Page