1hbh slice for shoulder height balls

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by directionals, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. directionals

    directionals Rookie

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    I can hit a pretty good slice when the ball is below shoulder height. But when the ball is above shoulder, I have trouble generating pace and the ball becomes a floater and lands short. What is the proper way to slice a high ball that has a good amonnt of topspin? The recent thread on Federer's slice where it describes you hit down and across, I can do that on low balls. I can't visualize how you slice down and across on a shoulder height ball. Tips?
     
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  2. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    squarely sideway stance and straight down chop. control trajectory with the whole body balance. lean whole body toward the net for steeper chop and flatter trajectory.
     
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  3. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    Would you also say that taking it either on the rise or at its max peak is the ideal time to hit it?
     
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  4. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    Depends what kind of shot you want to hit. If you want a really low skidding ball, take it on the rise. If you want to float it or curve it, it's much better to take it at the top as long as it's not too high.

    If it gets too high above the shoulder all you're going to be able to do is float it deep.
     
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  5. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    the ideal height would be near shoulder level. so if the ball is bouncing even higher than that you wanna step in and take it on the rise. if the max peak is around shoulder height you can take it there too.
     
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  6. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    it is more difficult to put pace on the high slice, lean into the shot without losing balance... don't worry about the 'across' part.... at that height it's all about 'down' and 'forward'.

    also, cut the OUTSIDE of the ball so it also curves to the right and make it difficult for the other guy.
     
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  7. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    With a higher ball, hit straight through the ball with racquet head tilted back, like hitting a high volley.
     
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  8. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I think it would be cool if everyone who gave advice put up a video of them hitting the shot they are advising.

    It would be nice to see the source of this golden advice.

    J
     
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  9. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Some good (ie., testable) comments so far, imo. I'm not qualified to offer any advice, but here's some vids (they're all really short, like a few seconds each, so go ahead and check them out).

    This one's hit at about chest height. I guess I could have taken the ball a little earlier (a bit higher). Anyway I think the principle is basically the same as for undercutting higher balls.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMQQSdS3y2M

    These are hit at about shoulder height.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMG1Cyk00XM

    This one's over my head at contact. I followed it in because I figured I had enough time to get into a fairly good net position. Probably a bad idea on such a no-pace ball, but this is 3.0 tennis where nobody has good passing shots and any kind of pressure usually leads to errors, and anyway I should have been able to hit a successful volley off what came back.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXC4Qn8e8yM
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Higher prep, and load that front foot, forcing your shoulder to lower and square up onto the ball, the opposite of leaning backwards and aiming the ball skyward.
    Forceful swing, closed stance.
     
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  11. mntlblok

    mntlblok Professional

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    Have the racket head *above* the ball before contact, then, as you slice down and forward, *don't* let the racket face "close" - which, if you opened it a good bit for power on the back swing, can get to be kind of interesting. Might even think of it as making contact "above the ball's equator". This keeps it from "floating" higher than you want.

    Much like a high backhand volley, you may have to either just "stop" the racket face at impact, or really do some fancy racket face manipulation after contact in order to keep the face from closing. If you *do* let the face close, then it was probably closing too much at impact, and it probably went into the bottom of the net.

    Kevin
     
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  12. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    lean on the ball, upper body about 15 degrees leaning forward at impact... weight on right foot, left leg trailing behind for balance.

    also, cut the outside of the ball to make it curve and less attackable.
     
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  13. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Why does your signature say "pounds per square inch"?

    J
     
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  14. mntlblok

    mntlblok Professional

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    Instead of millimeters of mercury

    It's "long" for PSI. I string my Weed at 39 PSI cause I'm too old to generate pace any other way.

    Kevin
     
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  15. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    But string tension is measured in pounds. Square inches don't enter into it. PSI is a measure of pressure, not tension.

    J
     
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  16. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    This is correct.
     
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  17. mntlblok

    mntlblok Professional

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    I'll be derned. I'll set that straight. Thank you. :mrgreen:
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Since you're SLICING, the ball cannot travel as fast as a topspin or flat shot.
    So you aim lower, maybe 2' above the net cord, the ball lands deep past NML, skids off to one side, bouncing low, and hopefully gives your topspin grooved opponent some problems with setup and prep.
    And since you are slicing, you have more control of the height over net, so you can adjust as needed if the opponent comes into net position.
    Load your front foot, lean towards your target lowering your front shoulder, slice FIRMLY thru the stroke, with weight behind it.
    I like a conti grip with a slight twist towards eFOREhand, taken well late, almost in line with my front shoulder.
     
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  19. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Just keep practicing it outside of match play. Have someone feed you higher than average balls to your BH and keep at it. Or, practice with a ball machine. or, practice against a wall. You'll figure it out, you just need a lot of time doing it.

    How do you think guys like Federer are so good at so many awesome shots (aside from just a ground stroke)? They practice and isolate those shots for hours on end.

    In a given match, how many of those slice BH's are you going to encounter? How many of them are above your shoulder? Not a whole lot, i don't think. Until you've done it 500/1000/10,000 times, then both your mind and body aren't used to it, aren't used to anticipating that shot and then going for it.
     
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  20. mntlblok

    mntlblok Professional

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjRN4j9RJu8

    Always fun to learn. . .
     
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  21. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Errr... That is kind of a poor example. That is a structural engineering thing if I understand the video correctly, so what they call "pressure" I would say is compression. The fact that they are using a force diagram with no mention of area to ascertain the difference furthers my point that what they are describing is compression more than pressure.

    Pressure can have arrows of a force diagram face towards or away from each other depending on the pressure differential.

    Example: I take a normal drinking straw, and plug each end with a spitball; I then poke a hole in one wall in the exact center of the straw. If I suck the air out of the straw through the hole in the middle then both spitballs will come towards the middle of the straw because the atmospheric pressure outside is greater than the pressure inside the tube of the straw which I have drawn the air out of. If I then blow into that same hole, the spitballs will reverse course, and blast out the ends of the straw because by blowing into the straw, the pressure within has risen to greater than atmospheric pressure.

    Both pressure related.

    The thing to remember is that tension is the force exerted by something which is trying to return to its normal state after being stretched.

    Pressure is a force exerted over an area.

    J
     
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  22. Gaz77

    Gaz77 New User

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    I don't think top spin comes into it really when your talking about playing the type of shot your talking about. If u play with a SHBH you'll find it easier to chop into the ball at shoulder height, so your actually putting a lot of backspin on the ball. Control the racket head with your left arm assuming your right handed and hold the racket head at a slight angle and chop down into the ball. Depending upon how hard you strike the ball you can control the depth of your shot. Trying to play a high, shoulder height topspin backhand is just a nightmare if you play with a SHBH. Watch federer on YouTube or tv and you'll see what I mean.
     
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  23. mntlblok

    mntlblok Professional

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    Pound-force

    OK, looks like I'm gonna learn all *kinds* of stuff today. So, this "pound" measurement is actually a unit of force, no? And, it's not "exactly" the same as the unit of weight (or mass), right?

    I'm thinking that maybe I should list my string tension as 173 newtons, no? :mrgreen:

    Kevin


     
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  24. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Measurements of weight are measurements of force, which are different than mass.

    Pounds can measure weight (or any other force) or mass, kilograms measure mass, newtons measure weight (or any other force).

    J
     
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