1st serve speed profile

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by phoenicks, Oct 15, 2009.

?

your average 1st serv speed range?

Poll closed Dec 14, 2009.
  1. below 50

    4.2%
  2. 51-60

    1.4%
  3. 61-70

    2.8%
  4. 71-80

    16.7%
  5. 81-90

    19.4%
  6. 91-100

    16.7%
  7. 101-110

    25.0%
  8. 111-125

    6.9%
  9. 125++

    6.9%
  1. phoenicks

    phoenicks Professional

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    Hi, I'm doing some formal investigation here about the 1st serve speed profile, particularly I'm most interested in the following detail,

    Your average serve speed:
    Your fastest serve speed ( in the box ):
    Your height:
    your NTRP level:



    your input is very much appreciated !!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2009
    #1
  2. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    Most people won't have precise data on this. I have a radar gun, yet I haven't had someone compile statistics during one of my competitive sets yet.

    I will make some estimates based on my practice measures. My first serve speed probably averages about 95mph. My fastest serves are about 110-115mph and rare. I'm 6'3" and probably a 4.0. My favorite serve is probably the body serve, but I try to always move it around. I've played a long time, over a decade with some long breaks.
     
    #2
  3. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I assume you mean when I go for a big flatter first serve. Playing doubles often, many times the kicker is just the way to go with returners.

    just over 5-11
    fastest measured was 121
    avg prob about 105
    play Open doubles
     
    #3
  4. naylor

    naylor Semi-Pro

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    Location:
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    Average serve speed: 100-105
    Fastest serve speed ( in the box ): 120
    Height: 5'10"
    NTRP level: 4.5
     
    #4
  5. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    Im 17y/o and 5'11". The last tourny my coach watched with his radar gun he clocked my fastest serve at 128mph and he avgeraged my serve speed on the 1st at 105mph. I play only jr. open tournys, including some nationals.
     
    #5
  6. phoenicks

    phoenicks Professional

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    LOL, yea, that's the problem at non-professional level, but we can get around by giving some wise guesstimate.:)
     
    #6
  7. BullDogTennis

    BullDogTennis Hall of Fame

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    nice everyone in here easily over 100....not gonna post mine cause im not sure, dont wanna give false data.
     
    #7
  8. layziaznboi

    layziaznboi New User

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    Your average serve speed: ~80-85
    Your fastest serve speed ( in the box ):~90
    Your height:5' 6"
    your NTRP level:3.5

    Yeah... I'm not entirely sure because I don't have a radar gun, but I compare it with all the high schoolers who say they have serves 70mph or 90mph or whatever. I'm still developing my serve =[ I just started tennis like a year ago and I'm so behind... I'm in college and 3.5 kinda sad lol...
     
    #8
  9. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Your average serve speed: 60-65 mph (mostly kickers)
    Your fastest serve speed : around 100 mph (flat, very rarely goes in,
    perhaps 1 out of 20)

    Your height: 5'9.5"
    your NTRP level: self rated 4.0
     
    #9
  10. The_Steak

    The_Steak Rookie

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    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    I suppose you are a top D1 player?
     
    #10
  11. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    Nope, gonna go to a low-mid D1 school... And Im guessin u dont believe me right? Fine with me, ur not a D1 coach for all I kno so what u think doesnt really matter.
     
    #11
  12. The_Steak

    The_Steak Rookie

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    You don't really realize how fast 128 is do you?


    Are you a 5.5? Sadly I don't think so.
     
    #12
  13. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Don't sweat it man. These guys don't realize how many young guns there are out there that can easily blast past 120mph in the jrs. Most of them have never used radar guns and most of the rest that have, don't understand how to use or set them up.

    The big difference for the pros is the spin, consistency and placement of the 120s.
     
    #13
  14. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    My coach rates me at a 5.5-6.0, and 128 is not my avg. My avg was 105 AT ONE MATCH. My coach rarely brings the radar gun out cause he thinks I shouldnt worry about mph.
     
    #14
  15. teppeiahn1

    teppeiahn1 Rookie

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    Your average serve speed:around 85-95
    Your fastest serve speed ( in the box ):108
    Your height:5'8
    your NTRP level:4.5
     
    #15
  16. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    where was the guy set up during you match?

    the avg was probably much higher when corrected for distance from contact point for the initial pick up.
     
    #16
  17. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    Exactly! I could slam my 1st serve every time if I wanted but my 1st serve % would b very low. I only go for the heat when I have a good lead or sometimes to get a free point. I rarely hit a totally flat serve to, usually has a bit of topspin to give me some margin, plus I love to thro in the slice and kicker as change-ups. Placement is key imo.
     
    #17
  18. Solat

    Solat Professional

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    avg : no way to know
    fastest : too fast for my opponent
    height : 194cm
    ITN : 3.5
     
    #18
  19. callen3615

    callen3615 Professional

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    Placement>Speed
     
    #19
  20. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    He was sitting on the net, he only took speeds from 1 1/4 sets. I won the 1st and was up an early break in the 2nd so he left to scout my next opponent. If I had to thro a 1st serve% for that match out, Id guess around 75% in. I only double faulted 2 times in that match as well.
     
    #20
  21. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    A quick guess (not knowing the specs for the radar unit used) says that your serves were 10% faster minimum, when you adjust for intercept angle and distance from initial acquisition, when comparing what is displayed at pro matches.
     
    #21
  22. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    I have no idea what gun he uses, but I would love it if this is true! IDK tho, for me if Im winning matches thats good enough, dont really care how fast Im hitting :)
     
    #22
  23. jserve

    jserve Rookie

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    Location:
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    Average: 115
    Fastest: probably just under 130
    Height: 6'2"
    NTRP: 5.0

    My serve is by far the best part of my game, the rest lags behind a ton. Also, I only used my flat serves for this, but my spin serves are just as effective being a lefty.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2009
    #23
  24. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    That's not the biggest problem in his numbers. You NEVER have 20+ mph differential in fastest first serve speed and average first serve speed. Especially not in a tournament! Even if you change up your serve speeds from 125-90 (like Del Potro did to Federer in the US Open and Murray does), your average speed still hovers around 110-115.

    The difference between fastest first serve speed and average first serve speed is usually 10 mph unless you're Roddick, who tones it down by 15-30 mph for an insane 1st serve percentage with 125 mph serves!

    Average speed 1: 105-110 mph (When aiming for 70% percentage)
    Average speed 2: 110-115 mph (ends up with 33-66% based on serving day)
    Max speed: Close to 120 mph? Give or take?
    Height: 5'10" (Anyone want to donate 3 or 4 inches? :) )

    I really have no idea exactly where I serve at, but I've been told by a futures player I easily clear 100 mph (and that was over 18 months ago and my motion is much more relaxed now). And I have a few friends that serve in the 90s and I serve WAY faster than them.

    I know I break 100 no problem. How much higher than 100, I've no real idea.
     
    #24
  25. moroni

    moroni Rookie

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    Avg 1st Serve Speed: 90-105(not Ofiicialy Missured So Maybe A Little Off)
    Fastest Serve:120(again Based On Serves Ive Seen That Had Official Speed)
    Height:180cm
    Ntrb:4.5
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
    #25
  26. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    I rarely during a match flatten out my serve completely, I choose to pop in a big serve only at key times because 1)it takes my opponent by surprise and 2)I feel more confident cause my serves have been going in alot (they go in cause I take off the power). The spin I use on my serves take off some pace but the weight is still very good.
     
    #26
  27. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

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    Location:
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    Average speed 1: 95-105 mph
    Average speed 2: 75-80 mph
    Max speed: 120 mph
    Height: 1.89m, 6"2??
    Ntrp: 5.5
     
    #27
  28. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    You do realize if you can bomb 125+, you can easily nail 110+ at 60+%...

    Taking off that much pace means either have 80+% first serves in with crazy spin or a very weak first serve...
     
    #28
  29. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Not to sure where these del Potro numbers come from. His fastest serve is well into the 130's and his avg in the USO was around 110. This would give him a bigger gap in his numbers than you, like in the 25-27 range. My gap is probably more like 30mph too as I have hit in the low 120s measured, but with all the kicks I throw in for 1st serves in certain situations and slowing it down for the big angle out wide, my avg 1st serve speed would come way down.
     
    #29
  30. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    121 mph kick serves

    141 mph

    5'9"

    still dealing with how to beat pushers.
     
    #30
  31. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    found some of del Potro stats.
    His biggest is 143 mph (which may not be his fastest one)
    His avg in that final 116
    27 mph difference

    116 is actually a high avg for del Petro, as he didn't serve that big regularly til just lately
     
    #31
  32. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Who knows? It would be cool to have a radar gun but its hard to justify the 150 bucks for just a trivial thing like that. I used one of those cage things and hit like 90 but that was like 6 years ago and using a eastern forehand grip.
     
    #32
  33. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Your average serve speed: 90
    Your fastest serve speed ( in the box ): 105 (or close)
    Your height: 5'9
    your NTRP level: 4.0
     
    #33
  34. jms007

    jms007 Professional

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    Avg. speed: I'd say 85-90mph
    Top speed: Probably just a bit over 100 mph.
    Height: 5'11
    NRTP: 3.0
     
    #34
  35. LafayetteHitter

    LafayetteHitter Hall of Fame

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    These types of threads definitely que up a line of cow flop.
     
    #35
  36. Storm_Kyori

    Storm_Kyori Hall of Fame

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    This is from 2yrs back. Only time I ever had a chance to clock my serve. I don't have access to a radar gun, so it will be interesting to find out how much I've improved. Hopefully I can update this soon.

    Your average serve speed: 72-75
    Your fastest serve speed ( in the box ):80
    Your height:5'9"
    Your NTRP level: 3.0

    I've been hitting my 1st serves with a lot more consistency and pace, so I would like to think I'm above what I was then.
     
    #36
  37. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    No clue what my 1st serve avg speed is or even my fastest for that matter which is funny considering I'm one of the few who actually owns a radar gun. I do know, however, that my average second serve falls in the 80-90 mph range which is something I'm very proud of. Originally I thought I was 70 at best so that took me by surprise.

    Keep in mind I rarely hit big first serves as I've learned they're usually returned with interest against the guys I play against. I consider myself someone who usually hits second serves (with placement and intention) with the occasional big serve (with little control) just to throw the returner's rhythm off.
     
    #37
  38. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Your average serve speed: 100-105
    Your fastest serve speed ( in the box ): 118
    Your height: 6'0"
    your NTRP level: 4.5
     
    #38
  39. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    A couple things could be going on. First, some people definitely overestimate serve speed - especially lower level players. I hit a body serve at about 110mph at a guy I'd say is a 3.5 and he started talking about how I serve like Roddick. He didn't believe me when I told him Roddick can serve 20 or 30mph faster than that basically whenever he wants.

    Those that hit average speed serves are probably scared off of these threads. The average serve I face around here in friendly matches is 60-80mph. Watching the high school tennis players here in San Diego County, most of the better player only hit in the 80s on the first serve. There are a few exceptions who crank serves around 100mph, but they are rare.
     
    #39
  40. jms007

    jms007 Professional

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    Hmm well I can't speak for everyone who voted here, but I think I'm fairly close in my estimation. I've rallied for a number of years. I have a 3.0 rating because I only started playing matches (in general not just USTA) this year, so obviously I'm still learning how to that. I'm getting better and I have beaten 3.5s in unofficial matches in singles and some USTA doubles. In part thanks to my serve. I usually get compliments on it even from the higher level players...at the very least pace/spin wise. I'm still not placing it well enough, and double faults are a few too many. And there other 3.0s around here, mostly 6"5 tall guys who can crank an occasional 100 mph. Why wouldn't they? If you are a tall, normally built healthy guy with adequate technique, there's no reason why you can't do that. As for the average first serve speed, well that one is more questionable. I usually go for a flat, hard one, so when it goes in, it's a pretty close to 90 at least. But I might be off, who knows!
     
    #40
  41. LafayetteHitter

    LafayetteHitter Hall of Fame

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    There was a 5' 7" 15 year old in another thread saying he serves 120...ok

    The other thing is anyone here can say just about anything. There is a youtube video of a guy saying he's serving over 100mph and the actual speed is close to my girlfriend who is a 3.0 and serves about 60 on a good day with no sun in her eyes.
     
    #41
  42. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    Below 50 fo sho.
     
    #42
  43. jms007

    jms007 Professional

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    Yeah anyone can say whatever. But if i have a 60 mph serve then I guess I'm just playing some lousy 3.5/4.0s who don't have the reflexes to react to a badly placed 60 mph serve.

    I don't think serve speed necessarily correlates to one's skill level. At least not to the 95-100 mph range. 110,120,130 that's a different matter.
     
    #43
  44. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Well look at how tall he is. He SHOULD be able to knock it up in the 140s if he wanted to. Whether it goes in or not is a different story, which is what didn't happen for him in the US Open finals with Federer.

    And Del Potro, like Murray and unlike USERNAME, throws in serves at 80-90 to seriously mess with the opponent. Against Federer he was consistently throwing serves in the 90s and the low 100s was his heater of the day.

    Unless you have so MASSIVE difference changeup speeds you're not going to have such a huge difference. Even then he didn't hit much higher than 125. When he goes for 130+, he's going for it!

    If you can max out 125 and are averaging 101s, then you must be hitting some 80 mph serves too! I doubt he really is though. Young people rarely go for 80 when they can knock it above 110.
     
    #44
  45. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    Yeah I could do that but whats the point? I dont need the heat to hold serve unless I get into a jam, not often until I play the upper end of the tournys I enter (except nats). The match I got the #s I posted from was a 1st round match. And a 105mph avg aint weak buddy, especially when u take into consideration that I usually like to place my serves to where my opponent is returning in an awkward position. Also on my 2nd serve I dont have to drop much pace compared to the 1st to get it in comfortably when Im hitting at the more controlled side of the spectrum, just add a tad more spin and it goes in. I like to move my serves around and I find that when hitting at about 105mph thats very easy. When I go for 120+mph I can usually only do 3 things, out wide(not crazy angles), up the T(again not like on the line), or at the body, and once the better guys I play find their timing they redirect my serves on the return.
     
    #45
  46. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    Which is what makes ME different! I dont go for the big serves unless I need it. I want a high 1st serve% cause that make me feel more confident during the points. When I start getting pressured thats when I start to put more on the 1st to push who Im playing back, then I can easily take some off and pop in angled serves for aces. Also if I had a long point before my next serve, thats when I might put in a bigger 1st to get a freebie so I can catch my breath (doesnt always work tho lol).
     
    #46
  47. nousername

    nousername Rookie

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    wow ... you talk like the correlation between avg serve speed and max speed is an exact science, and that if you don't fit in the fold you cannot play tennis (no you didn't say that last part, i added it for effect).

    so according to your theory verdasco does not server "correctly":
    http://www.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day16/1502ms.html

    28mph diff in avg speed and max.
     
    #47
  48. halalula1234

    halalula1234 Professional

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    Your average serve speed: 85-95
    Your fastest serve speed ( in the box ): 103
    did a near 120 but way out once :D
    Your height:5'6 and a half
    your NTRP level: 5.0
     
    #48
  49. SuperDuy

    SuperDuy Hall of Fame

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    Haha im 5'7 15.5 year old and never measured my serve before, but 5.0s at my club are saying its pretty good. Because I can serve through fence at our club and usually ball gets stuck in fence. I dont know maybe 70 mph fastest? I only seen 1 other guy hit through fence through hit serve and hes 5.0-5.5

    I serve just about as hard and flat as I can on first serve, they go in maybe 67% of the time for the reletively hard serves, but if its a warm day and im really warmed up, I hit them as hard as I can without injuring myself and they usually go in the box then into the fence!

    Im not sure? serve going through fence is what? 40 mph?
     
    #49
  50. Ken Honecker

    Ken Honecker Rookie

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    Let me be the first on here to state that I must be hitting somewhere in the low 200's since no one in the ATP has ever returned one. Although those scrapy 3.0's I play against have been know to get a piece of one every now and then. Go figure!

    OH and by the way I'm 6'1" and somewhere between a 3.0 and 4.5 and play in Spokane where our 3.0's are like Calif 7.0's or how else could they hit me?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
    #50

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