2 questions about Nadal's injury, or lack of it

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by SerbWhoLovesDelPo, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. For those people who say Nadal never had an injury during or before RG:

    1) If he wasn't injured, then doesn't that make him one of the biggest cheats/fakers ever, since it basically means he skipped out of the greatest tennis tournament in the world (and Queens and Davis Cup) for no reason?

    2) I've seen a lot of people criticize Nadal's busy schedule (and not just posters with Rafa-avatars). For proof, see here

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=290886

    But, again, if there was no injury/exhaustion, then there was absolutely nothing wrong with his schedule, right? He can play Barcelona and Rotterdam next year, too.

    ------------------------------

    3) If you believe that he had an injury, but not during Madrid and RG, then when did he pick it up? Soderling match? Training?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2009
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  2. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    I think you just asked 3 question by the look of it:):)

    But seriously:

    1)As you know there are 2 theories floating around: Nadal chickened out of Queens/Wimbledon because he was low on confidence or the drakulie theory which says that Nadal got caught doping and got secretly suspended by the ATP.

    IMO both are laughable. So Nadal,not having match practice and being low on confidence,is willing to go get himself hammered on the fast courts(his worst surface) of Montreal/Cincy/USO/Beijing but he chickens out when it comes to defending his queens and Wimbledon titles(being held on grass,a surface he likes). Come on. The doping/suspension theory I have explained so many times that I am sick of it. Look it up in the numerous threads related to it.

    2) Nadal has no idea how to schedule. This is true. But Nadal's schedule isn't set in stone. He can change at the last minute,even while facing the prospect of a fine by the tournament organisers. Bangkok was on his schedule for example,but he dropped it due to injury. If Nadal feels healthy enough,he enters. His problem is knowing when to stop,the best example being the situation on clay courts this spring. He had been playing with pain in his knees since MC but kept on playing for another 2 tournaments. So the guy stringed 3 consecutive clay tournaments(MC,Barca,Rome) without a break in between. That's pretty stupid considering that he was playing with pain. And what does he do? He rests for a week and plays another tournament,Madrid, instead of resting up and preparing for RG.

    3)I definitely believe he had an injury and if I had to guess I think his situation worsened in Madrid,though I'm not sure when. And we need to redefine the "injury" term. Nadal has tendinitis,a condition you can live with,but the trick is to not play too much,unless you want the pain to get bigger. The body needs time to rest. Nadal didn't do that for his knees and paid the price. Nadal's "injury" happend from the cumulative effect of playing too much,it's not like he slipped on something and broke his leg. Nadal himself says that he almost always plays with some pain but at the wimbledon withdrawal was the first time I heard him say that the pain is so great that it takes his mind off his game. The fact that he visited his doctor after Madrid says something.
     
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  3. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    we simply cannot keep up with the spaniard's pathetic excuses.

    first it's "i don't play unless i'm 100%, no?"

    then, weeks after he was beaten like a drum by le sod it's "i was injured at RG, no?"

    someone please explain how you can be 100% and injured at the same time.
     
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  4. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Ever heard of learning from your mistakes? Nadal entered RG not at his best physically and he,like us,saw what happened and I don't mean his elimination from the competition but the fact that his tendinitis flared up and caused him to miss queens and wimbledon. I don't think the visit to his doctor after Madrid was for nothing,clearly something was bothering him. In wimbledon he did the first smart thing in a long time and actually listened to his body instead of forcing it like he has done in the past.

    Every tournament Nadal has entered after Wimbledon he was 100% physically(that is,he felt good enough to enter),his only problem was match time and timing on his strokes. The only problem he had after WB was a small abdomen pain which he felt was minor,seeing as he played montreal/cincy/USO with it. His bad luck was that the pain developed into a muscle tear and once again he was sidelined.
     
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  5. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    nadal was perfectly fine at RG as evidenced by his wins in the previous rounds.
    his ego just couldn't take the Sod beatdown, a guy he hates with a passion.

    there was no mention of injury after the match. the lame excuses started appearing weeks later.
     
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  6. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Weeks later? You make it sound as if a long time passed by. Nadal played his last match at RG on the 31st of May. Talks about him skipping queens started a few days later and Queens started on the 8th of June. That's basically one week. Then everyone wondered if Nadal would play Wimbledon but there were about 2 weeks between queens and wimbledon and the speculations started about whether or not Nadal would play. Nadal basically took 2 weeks off in the hopes of getting his knees better for WB but his body didn't recover fast enough.

    Do you seriously believe that Nadal invented his injury to make up for his soderling loss(he never said this in so many words,he just said he didn't arrive at his best physically in RG) and then went on to certifiy the validity of this injury claim by withdrawing from the most important tournament in the world,of which he was defending champion? This is far fetched even for a hater like yourself.
     
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  7. Great post aphex, 100% true! Thats exactly how it went down, Nad-tards created their own illusions about it
     
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  8. Bs ! Bs! Bs!! You dont steamroll Hewitt (even though he is not a claycourter) if you are not perfectly fine, and vs Soderling Nadal ran like a friggin rabbit, no injuries there!
     
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  9. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    What's with the knee jerk reaction? Take some to read my post and then come back with some counter arguments.

    Your argument is BS!!BS!!BS!!!

    Let's say Nadal was not injured(I don't like this injury term,I prefer to think he came in with some knee problems but not big enough to cause him to withdraw from RG) during RG. What the hell caused him to skip queens a week later and then wimbledon? Did he get injured after RG all of a sudden(because acording to you he was just dandy in RG)? Or did he just chicken out of the biggest tournament in the world(as the Nadal haters theory would have us believe)?

    So Nadal is willing to go and play HC(his worst surface) and get his ass kicked a few times by DelPo,Djoker,Cilic but he wasn't willing to go on a surface that favors him,grass,at his favourite tournament,for fear of getting beat.Come on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
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  10. What i sound like too you i couldnt care less about! You havent been world-ranked-i have.

    You can say whatever you want it will not change my mind, im watching the Soderling-Nadal match from FO right now and Nadal is running like ive never seen him before, pulling off some really really good shots, Soderling played out off his mind that day, smacked every ball close too the lines keeping Nadal off-rhytm and keeping the points short CONSISTENTLY. There was NOTHING Nadal could have done even if he had the speed of Usain Bolt for Gods sake!
    I think he had to high levels of some forbidden substance in his body and needed too clear out his system, he was even seen practicing at 100% 1-2 days before Wimbledon! And why play exos if you have a "self-invented-injury"??? Thats insanity!!!:evil: Even the biggest Nadal-**** has to realize this deep down. Time goes by and the substances are out off his body, of course he cant practice during this time since people would question him even more if he did. thats why he looked so rusty during the late summer HC-swing.
     
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  11. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    absolutely. something very fishy going on there. he plays 2 exos to "test" his knees a couple of days before W. obviously, he's in a decent condition since he barely loses to two very, very good players (players far better than the ones he'd face in the first 2-3 rounds). therefore, there are only 2 choices:
    a. nadal is a pvssy-he wasn't in a very good condition and decided to skip
    the event altogether for fear of getting beaten at some stage.
    b. something "top secret" went down and he wasn't ALLOWED to play.

    take your pick...
     
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  12. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    I see that you are a follower of Drakulie. Conspiracy theories run amok around here. And what does being world ranked have to do with anything? You think that because you played proffesional tennis you know Nadal's ailments better than himself?

    I think you missed my point. I was talking about Nadal's health entering RG,not necessarily about the Soderling match. If Nadal needed to flush out the substances you say he took,why do it around Wimbledon? Acording to many sources,it only takes about a week to flush out the newest drugs on the market and I think Nadal can afford them. Nadal had almost a month between RG and WB.
    If he got caught,why ban him for just one month,as drakulie's theory states?
    He was seen practicing 1-2 days after wimbledon started,not before,get your facts straight. And it was for DC,which he didn't play in. Wanna know why? Because he wasn't able to!!!

    Nadal didn't play tennis from 01.06.09-18.06.09. If I remember correctly,he played 2 exo's on the 18 and 19 of June to test his knees in a real match. He felt that they weren't good enough and withdrew. Is it such a stretch of the imagination to see that Nadal took 2 weeks off to rest his weary knees after RG and only then tried them out in a real match to see how he feels about entering Wimbledon?

    Here's a summary of your conspiracy theory to see how silly it sounds:

    Nadal enters RG perfectly healthy. He gets beat by Soderling and a few days later "invents" a injury in order to excuse his defeat. He withdraws from Queens and then play 2 exo's just to keep up the appearance that he is at least trying to play and that he has a real injury. He then withdraws from wimbledon,the biggest tournament in the world,whilst being defending champion just to keep up appearances again. But of course secretly,Nadal has been caught doping before or after RG and the ATP have banned him FOR ONE MONTH(that's got to be the shortest ban in the history of tennis),the other month being free time in the calendar.

    In order to keep the illusion that he was injured Nadal purposely stays away from practice for 2 months(even though he stated many times that he started his physical recovery in the second month) and comes back playing like **** but improving as the tournaments goes on,just like a person who had a real timeout because of injury. And he also looks thinner,not because he lost weight in order to ease the strain on his knees,but because he has flushed the drugs from his system(presumbably the doping agents balooned him up with about 5kg of weight).

    And now Nadal looks really weak in the summer HC tournaments according to you. Nevermind the fact that he looks ok physically and that his problems are related to his game,not his health,and to the fact that he can't handle the fast HC courts,you know just like last year,when he was supposedly "pumped up" and winning Cincy/USO(the fastest court around). Oh wait,no he wasn't,he was getting his ass kicked by djoker in cincy(with almost the same scoreline as this year) and by murray in USO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
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  13. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    It's a conspiracy I tell you!!!!

    a)Let's say Nadal was ok physically around wimbledon. He chooses not to play on grass,a surface which favours him,at wimbledon,where he is defending champion,for fear of getting beat at some point but he chooses to come back after the supposed injury on his worst surface and take 4 massive beatings at the hands of delpo(twice),djoker and cilic. Yeah,real likely scenario.

    b)See my post above about Nadal's flushing out of the drugs.

    The conspiracy theorists need to take their pick. Nadal either withdrew because he was scared people were going to beat him,because the ATP caught and banned him,or because he mistimed the use of his doping agents and didn't want to get caught with his pants down when they would have tested him in SW19. Take your pick.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
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  14. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    you are aware he barely lost to wawrinka and hewitt a couple of days before wimby?

    players much better than the ones he'd face in the first rounds..
     
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  15. Im a follower off myself.
    Playing pro tennis ive seen guys who were on roids and what happens.
    You obviously know what you are talking about unlike most other Nadal-fans and you even have some good points.
    BUT...Why does Nadal look so skinny now? Having knee-problems he could still workout his upperbody, right?
    Do YOU (like all Nad-tards) think he had knee-problems vs Soderling in FO?
    He played really close matches with Wawrinka and Hewitt days before Wimbledon, and then decides too be the first man in history NOT too defend his Wimbledon-title? Of course people are gonna speculate and question him!:evil:
     
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  16. That is absolutely true!
     
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  17. lovecr717

    lovecr717 Rookie

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    thumbs up this post made my day.
     
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  18. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    I wouldnt say he faked it but he's trying to pile up all his losses on his injuries..and he's done that more often than not.Not to mention I do think he and his uncle really exaggerrate his injuries..especially his uncle.
    Last year Roger had mono..and we had to hear *******s complain about Roger putting it up as an excuse,putting the back injury as an excuse whereas their own boy has been giving injury as a reason for his losses for the last 4 or 5 years.
    A lot of what gets written by Federer fans is usually sarcasm to point out the *******s' double standards .I wouldnt read too much into it if I were you.
     
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  19. statto

    statto Professional

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    He lost to two players he should be beating in straight sets.

    The matches were best of three, not best of five.

    All watching could see his frustration at his hampered movement.

    So he has two options: (1) go to Wimbledon, maybe make it through a few rounds before losing to someone half decent, and in the meantime do his knees further damage, or (2) pull out of Wimbledon in the hope of being somewhere near peak fitness for the HC season.

    I think he made the right decision.
     
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  20. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    He was suspended, which would still make him a cheat.
     
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  21. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    :lol::lol: drak
     
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  22. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    hehehehehe. :evil:
     
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  23. I've been here for a month, and I already saw that coming from a mile away.
     
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  24. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    He was playing insane tennis at RG. Winning streak has to end at certain point and it happen to be Soderling. He was playing great tennis, a perfect guy to beat him b/c he's a big, tall, power hitter where Nadal has history of having problem with power hitters. And he's just lost to a tall player Cilic the other day. Not a coincidence here.

    Avoiding to accept a tough, tough loss, using injury is the obvious excuse to discredit Soderling.

    As I've mentioned it before....since 2005-08, Nadal played awfully alot of tennis during the clay season, won RG and never skipped the warmup tourney and SW19. An extremely harsh schedule, hardly any time to rest, but never claimed injury. Now in 2009, a shocking loss on his favorite surface, he decide to skipped both tourneys(queen/SW19). Makes no sense. When he wins, he'll continue to play(05-08), but after a huge upset, losing confident, he reject to stand up and fight.
     
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  25. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    You must not be reading my posts. I said that he didn't come at his best physically in RG,not that he lost to soderling because of that.Many observers said that Nadal didn't really show his best tennis in the soderling match(mcenroe and navratilova being just some of them) and even the FYB(fuzzy yellow balls)guy said that Nadal had an off day.

    Did he have knee problems with Soderling? Honest to God,I don't know,I am not Nadal. But I did see that he had problems before RG,which he brought upon himself by overplaying. Nadal looked very sloppy in the first round,both in movement and in strokes. He had 2 close sets with Daniel!!!. Freaking daniel,a decent claycourter,but who was 31 years old at the time and playing pretty average tennis himself. Nadal also lost a set to nr.109 in the world in an exo. Whether it was physical or just game-wise,Nadal wasn't at his best in this year's RG. The gabashvili and hewitt matches aren't relevant to me. I saw both of those matches and in neither one did Nadal play great tennis. He played just enough to get past the rookie gabashvili and "clay legend" hewitt,who didn't do much to trouble Nadal on that day.

    You,like all the people who attack Nadal on the basis of his wimbledon withdrawal,fail to see the purpose of those exo's. Nadal came off a 2 week rest for his knees after RG,skipping queens,and decided on the eve of wimbledon(he wanted to wait as much as possible) to test his knees against two tough opponents,hewitt and wawrinka. He barely lost but all reports of onlookers said that while Nadal moved good,he often cringed and held his knees after certain point,and I don't think it was for show. Nadal saw the grim reality that his tendinitis was bothering him too much and couldn't keep focused on his game. Nothing more,nothing less. If the consensus was to skip wimbledon from the get-go,why put on a "show"? Did Nadal really get his knee scanned in Barca(from what I remember),fly to london,test his knees,hold a press conference,just to sell us a "fake" injury? It would have been much easier to stay in Mallorca and say that he has tendinitis problems and that's it. Everybody would have believed him and no one would have doubted his story.

    Nadal is "skinny" because he lost 5kg at the suggestion of his nutritionist,in order to have less pressure on the already battered knees. And where does this general consensus come from that Nadal lost weight in the upper body? Nadal wasn't that big before,he is a guy with a big left bicep,huge tree trunk legs and some decent back muscles. He had almost no pecs(and still hasn't) and I've seen tennis players that are way more cut than Nadal,not to mention some that are bigger. Google up some topless practice pictures of guys like Verdasco,Tursunov,Safin,Tsonga,nowadays Murray,Monfils and many many others who are more prone to suspicion that Nadal if the same standards apply. Nadal lost weight in his legs from what I've seen. And his polo shirt doesn't hug his body like the sleeveless so he looks leaner,not to mention the fact that his still big biceps is hidden by the sleeves.

    This is Nadal before his injury,when he wore sleeveless:
    http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/aaaaaaaaarafaa6.jpg

    This is Nadal after his injury ordeal,in montreal doubles:
    http://cowbell.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83423e30253ef0120a4e2857c970b-400wi

    And mind you,he is actually flexing in the first picture. Doesn't look all that different to me.
     
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  26. Alright, thats the way you look at it, not the way i look at it.
     
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  27. big bang

    big bang Hall of Fame

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    +1 good post, I totally agree!
     
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  28. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    For doping?
     
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  29. penguyen17

    penguyen17 Rookie

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    Can't we all just be fans of tennis and not get caught up in the bitterness? Some of you guys sound like you would go to war over this. "Nad-tards" and "fed-haters" whatever it is, just drop it. Ultimately, our opinions dont matter in the large scope of things. So just stop the hating and enjoy the tennis.
     
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  30. JennyS

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    I have a conspiracy theory on why Nadal skipped Wimbledon. He was so embarrassed by being beaten by Soderling that he was willing to give up Wimbledon just to prove he was injured the whole time. That way he didn't really lose at the French Open: his knees did!
     
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  31. Sartorius

    Sartorius Professional

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    It has to be said again, to suggest that he faked the injury and the retirement from Wimby is laughable in the least, if not totally idiotic.

    When talking about whether he had an injury at RG, people talk about his previous matches, how he hammered Hewitt and so forth.. He beat his opponents in straight sets but as others mentioned I also don't think he looked like his usual self in any of his matches in RG. Yes, there were some of his usual clay brilliance here and there. But especially while watching his 1st round match, and even at some bits against Hewitt, I thought that occasionally Nadal was looking edgy and uncomfortable on the court, which is not like him.

    The thing is (you probably heard this a lot but no harm in repeating in it): Fitness and staying healthy is a part of every sport. It wasn't just about Nadal being injured or not being fit... This will sound harsh but I'd say this is the final and the essential truth in this matter: Nadal failed to be fit and stay injury-free this season. I can safely say this because Nadal himself admitted that he made mistakes. Basically, he had it coming, and this doesn't take away anything whatsoever from Soderling's win in RG, and to also touch a more hilarious suggestion, it doesn't take anything from Federer's win in Wimby as well.

    That is all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
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  32. brc444

    brc444 New User

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    I don't believe in any of the so called Nadal conspiracy theories or that he was faking injuries etc. However, I think that Nadal's standard that he had to be 100% well to play Wimby was the wrong stardard -- it should have been well enough to play at a competitive level. When deciding whether to play, I thought he should have eased into the exhibitions -- 2 sets too much and 2 consecutive days too much -- furthermore what is he testing by playing consecutive days when you play every other day at Wimby.
     
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  33. wihamilton

    wihamilton Hall of Fame

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    My name is Will =)

    Nadal was definitely injured at RG. Obviously, it wasn't a debilitating injury -- he could still play at a high level. But he couldn't play to the best of his abilities.

    This fact doesn't, imo, diminish Soderling's win. He played incredibly well and won that match (as opposed to Nadal losing it). In fact, the strategy he used that match is now the blueprint for all other big-hitting, tall players -- go big, control the middle of the court, stay on the baseline / keep Nadal behind the baseline.

    I didn't see the recent Cilic - Nadal match but it sounds like Cilic used this approach as well... can anyone confirm? Thx.
     
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  34. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    No he wasn't.
     
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  35. wyutani

    wyutani Hall of Fame

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    nadal lost to cilic becos nadal simply couldnt keep his serve. his serve is too weak.
     
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  36. wihamilton

    wihamilton Hall of Fame

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    His knees weren't 100%. That's not just my opinion -- that's from folks involved in his practice sessions during RG.
     
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  37. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah, you mean the same team that told him to take three weeks off because of his injury, and yet he was on the practice court three days later? The same team that tells him to play doubles, or helps him set his schedule? Is that the team you are talking about?

    I don't buy it.
     
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  38. wihamilton

    wihamilton Hall of Fame

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    Nope. Info wasn't from someone in his crew. Unbiased source.
     
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  39. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    sorry, but not buying it. No one who is injured plays 20+ matches, and then two exos, when they claim, "they didn't know the extent of the injury, or what the injury even was". They wouldn't just leave that to chance.
     
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  40. wihamilton

    wihamilton Hall of Fame

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    Why do you think he didn't play Wimbledon?
     
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  41. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    serving a "soft suspension".

    and BTW, three days after Wimbledon began, he was on a practice court, even though we were all told he would be taking 3 weeks off to due testing, rest, and recovery, because suppsedly, they still didn't know his diagnosis.
     
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  42. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    OK Drak, since you ducked my question in the other thread, I'll ask you here - What incentive would the ATP and ITF have to cover up for Nadal and a positive steroid test, as you assert, and risk the name of the sport forever?
     
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  43. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Just because you don't agree with my answer, doesn't mean I haven't answered this already several times.

    But here you go again, since you seem to have memory loss:

    MONEY and Embarassment, not to mention the mess it would make on the record books.



    PS: You should really go see someone about this memory loss thing.
     
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  44. Nadal doesn't take steroids.....I swear on James Blake's grave. :)
     
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  45. Talker

    Talker Hall of Fame

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    Not too sure how sore his knees were, he did play some before Wimby.

    I just don't understand why he wouldn't try to play Wimby.
    There was a chance that the problem wouldn't get better after a round or two. In that case he could withdraw.
    With good treatment the problem may have gotten somewhat better, who knows.

    Losing to Robin of all people had to hurt bad, it could have been a combination of the tendinitis and the RG lose.
    I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, he deserves that at least from how I see it.
    I've basically moved on though however.
     
    #45
  46. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I have better things in life to remember than your convoluted conspiracies about Nadal, believe me.

    If a cover up was found out, it would make an even bigger stain on the sport than just releasing Nadal's name, would it not?
     
    #46
  47. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Then don't ask, and stop trolling in threads that have nothing to do with this topic.
     
    #47
  48. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    You brought up the 'suspension'. I try to discuss it and you call me a troll. Real mature. :roll:
     
    #48
  49. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Imagine the mess that would happen if they did find out. Now, a cover-up is highly unlikely to be discovered, since the ITF seems to be pretty good at this hush hush stuff.


    I mean, come on now. 30+ players had abnormal levels of testosterone a few years back and then it got swept under the rug and nothing was ever made of it. Really?
     
    #49
  50. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Wimbledon began June 22nd... you said Nadal was on a court June 26th (which is false).

    Go back to grade school, learn basic math skills, count the days in between, and then come back to TW.

    Thanks
     
    #50

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