2 years in a row Czech win Davis cup final with 2 players... Swiss?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tipsa...don'tlikehim!, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    2012 Berdych + Stepanek defeated Ferrer + Almagro + Granollers + M.Lopez
    2013 Berdych + Stepanek defeated Djokovic + Lajovic + Bozoljac + Zimonjic

    Why does Roger F not care about Davis cup ?
     
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  2. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Look at Wawinka's Davis Cup record. Look at how many ties Federer has played of Davis Cup and compare that to Nadal. There's your answer of whether Federer cares about Davis Cup.
     
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  3. Who Am I?

    Who Am I? Banned

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    Who cares about the Davis cup?
     
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  4. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    that's not comparable with Nadal... Spain doesn't need Nadal to win Davis cup, but Swiss without Federer is lost.
     
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  5. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Federer cannot play two 5 setters in two days to save his life. At least not anymore. Look at AO: 5 set against Tsonga, and I still don't understand how Murray let the match go as long as 5 sets. At RG he struggles against Simon (as usual) then quick loss to Tsonga. If he plays the doubles on the top of this, I doubt there will be much of Federer left by the third day. Yes it's his worst year since ages, but I don't recall him being known for alien-like stamina like Nadal or Djokovic either. He'd have to have excellent fitness training and not to play big countries like France or Spain on the way to the title or he's most likely toasted. I know Wawrinka would most likely fight, but I seriously doubt Federer is able to do so anymore.

    And let's not fool ourselves: against Tipsarevic or Troicki, I doubt Stepanek would have such a walk in the park. By the way, thanks Almagro for screwing it for everyone once again.
     
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  6. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Well he's played many more ties than Nadal has, infact he's won more Davis Cup matches than Nadal has played and very nearly the same compared to Djokovic...

    http://www.daviscup.com/en/players/player/profile.aspx?playerid=10019424

    http://www.daviscup.com/en/players/player/profile.aspx?playerid=100007935

    http://www.daviscup.com/en/players/player/profile.aspx?playerid=100004087

    Here you see that Warinka's record is actually pretty poor in Davis cup;

    http://www.daviscup.com/en/players/player/profile.aspx?playerid=100002840#

    So Federer clearly cares alot about Davis Cup and if anyone the last decade has let down the Swiss team it's not him. Nadal has only played 4 singles matches that weren't clay lol. Such dedication.
     
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  7. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    Again, what's the point comparing with Nadal and Djokovic, both won Davis cup already.
     
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  8. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    The point is you said Federer doesn't care about Davis Cup. Nadal and Djokovic are typically paraded as Davis Cup heroes around here. I pointed out that Federer has played Davis Cup much more than both of them.

    So clearly if Federer doesn't care about Davis Cup no one does, capiche?
     
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  9. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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  10. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    You're saying we shouldn't take Nadal's DC wins seriously, then?
     
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  11. chicagodude

    chicagodude Professional

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    Exactly, we shouldn't. why anyone would consider a DC win important when looking at an individual player's accomplishments is beyond me. Sure it's great to win one, but you depend on your country having multiple good players.

    Murray e.g. will never win a DC and Nadal probably will end up with 5 or 6 wins, but to me that has no bearing when it comes to comparing Nadal and Murray.
     
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  12. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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    Maybe Murray would win Davis Cup, with the Wimbledon doubles champion Jonathan Marray or with Coling Fleming, two good doubles players, Andy could play the doubles but it would not be always necessary. Then being he one of the best singles players in the world, I think Great Britain would have great performances. I'd like to see what would happen if Andy plays.
     
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  13. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    it's probably very important for him personnally, but in the GOAT debate ( :lol: ) i don't think DC plays a great role
     
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  14. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah, and wonder why Nole and the Serb didn't win while a 35 years old Stepanek and Czech win. Nole was 2-0 including a win over Stepanek.

    Further proof that winning Davis Cup is all about team effort. Nole was clearly the best player in the final but his team wasn't as good as the Czech.
     
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  15. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    That makes Karl Malone and Charles Barkley isn't an all time great power forward because they never won a championship. Horace Grant is a super power forward because he has 4 rings. LOL
     
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  16. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Spain second tier team are even better than the Swiss.
     
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  17. NADALRECORD

    NADALRECORD Banned

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    It depends who you ask. I personally think Finals MVP is the key award when measuring greatness.
     
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  18. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Boris Becker in 1988 and 1989 came as close as it gets to winning the Davis Cup single-handedly. His performances in the 1989 Davis Cup final were his peak level of performance, where he beat Edberg and Wilander with ease.
     
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  19. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Theoretically, it's possible but Murray would have to reschedule his entire year to play every single tie, win BOTH his singles matches EVERY TIME and win his doubles match with Jonathan Marra/Collin Fleming or whoever's playing. It's a huge task and some luck would have to be involved.

    But it's not worth the candle.
     
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  20. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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    I´m seeing Colins has played doubles in Davis Cup with Ross Hutchins, having good results. Also Jonathan Marray and Jamie Murray. I think Andy would play singles and see what happens. I guess Davis Cup is not the most important to him. Just think it would be interesting.
     
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  21. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Professional

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    i know a black mamba hater when i see one. ;)
     
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  22. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Nobody defeated lord egg.

    /thread.
     
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  23. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    How can Barkley and Malone can be a final MVP if their team isn't good enough to win it all? Wade was the final MVP, but can anyone say he's better than Barkley, or Bernard King? No way.
     
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  24. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    Maybe he doesn't consider it important personally! Also its only now that Wawrinka has stepped it up. But from 2003-2011 Switzerland = Federer.
     
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  25. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    Hint: The dancing banana is tipsa...don'tlykhim... ;-)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
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  26. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    wow this guy defeated the banana!!
     
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  27. chicagodude

    chicagodude Professional

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    So you feel that DC should have a MVP award?

    Basketball is a teamsport so you really can't compare with tennis anyway.
    How can you go by finals MVP to measure greatness? Your team first needs to get to the finals. Besides that, how often does the losing team in the NBA finals get the finals MVP? Exactly...

    If anything, regular games MVP would be a better measure for an individual's quality. In tennis, a DC competition would IMO be more interesting, with the top 4 countries playing each other once a year, with the top 2 in that division playing for overall win. The bottom of the top division would play the best of the tier 2 DC division of 4 countries for promotion/relegation, etc.

    If that's the way it's set up, you could elect a competition MVP, perhaps....
     
    #27
  28. NADALRECORD

    NADALRECORD Banned

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    That never even occurred to me. If Grant had won a couple of Finals MVPs, he'd be perceived differently. People would be able to say "Grant was more of a factor than Jordan in a couple of those NBA Finals". Instead, Jordan won all 6 Finals MVPs, and therefore gets most of the credit (as he should).
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
    #28
  29. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    First of all this is ridiculous. Even if Pippen split those NBA Finals MVPs with Jordan 3 and 3 and all their other stats stayed the same. Nobody would be comparing the two. Jordan is not the greatest of all time because he has just that, he also has 5 regular season MVPs, scoring records, was phenomenally efficient (see his PER), played really good defense for a 2 guard, could also run an okay 1 guard game and just created so many shots from situations where he shouldn't have had one. Jordan was great because if you watch basketball you just see it. Jordan won his rings after his best years arguably. However even before he won his rings people knew Jordan was one of the greatest.

    Jordan doesn't have the most rings, but people consider him the greatest because of the way he played the game. It's a team sport, it's very dependent on a team. Hell Jordan had a season as a 2 guard where he shot over 50% from the field, pulled down 8 boards a game, dished out 8 assists and average over 30 points. In the 2 guard spot for most of those minutes, that's insane.

    Steve Nash is arguable one of the best men to ever play the 1 guard in basketball with or without a ring. I'd say Stockton is the best man to run the point and he never wound up with a ring. We can argue the Johnson vs. Stockton debate, but Stockton in terms of the role of a point guard, was by far the best in the business. He would shut down the guard he faced with tight d and steals and would make those plays. He never won the NBA championship, why because of Jordan and the super great bulls team.

    My point, there are a ****ton of teams that compete for team titles, but the players on them can be amazing. The Czech have won two straight davis cups, but going into both finals they caught huge breaks. Nadal's injury and the Serb injury + testing issues helped them huge. And hell it is what it is, but Federer's greatness is not affected by Davis Cup in my opinion. It would be different if the swiss were giving it all and losing in finals, but frankly it's a clear lack of motivation from Fed now to play Davis Cup that is preventing him from even standing a chance. He showed up in his peak and nobody else was around. He doesn't value it that much. In individual sports you can get away with that and Davis Cup isn't the same as it was anymore. In the 30s it was huge, nowadays the average tennis fan/sports fan won't know much about it or care. Hell I couldn't even tell you what countries each finalist beat to get there. It's not like the World Cup, it's not the NBA Playoffs etc. Tennis has the majors. Davis Cup is a nice boost, but frankly I doubt it's any tennis players top priority. As I'm damn ****ing sure Berdych would trade Fed a Davis Cup for a Wimbledon in a heartbeat.

    tl;dr Davis Cup don't mean **** in my eyes. Blast me as a ******* idgaf. On the real though how the hell has France not won a single damn Davis Cup in the past few years with their ****.
     
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