2005 AO Safin vs 2011 AO Djokovic

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by mike danny, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    I don't remember this topic being brought up but IMO it is a better one than the 2012 AO nole vs 2006 AO fed.

    Both def Federer in the semis but Safin beat a fully peak Federer while Nole with all due respect beat a slighter past his prime one.

    It would be close but i see Safin taking the edge because he hits harder groundies than Nole IMO
     
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  2. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    of course Djokovic 2011 is better

    Safin AO 2005 was vulnerable
     
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  3. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    Safin in my opinion, he played unbelievably at that tournament. It would have been very close though.
     
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  4. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    He had to dispatch Oliver Rochus in 4 sets and he won the last 3 sets of the match in a tiebreak. Rochus was ranked 53 in the world.

    Tipsa is right. Safin was more vulnerable. Djokovic only lost one set and that was to Dodig.
     
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  5. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    On the new AO courts - Djokovic. Old ones - Safin.
     
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  6. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    Probably this indeed
     
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  7. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    I remember how (underrated) Dodig fought for his life to win this 2nd set, then totally collapsed, exhausted in the 3rd, something like 1/6 or 0/6 :lol:
     
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  8. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    Safin is the most overrated player of all time, I'll take Djokovic.
     
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  9. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    First of all, welcome back, Tipsa. [​IMG]

    And yes that match was crazy. Dodig did everything he could to win that set and the croatian fans were going crazy the whole time. They were quite for the rest of the match :lol:
     
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  10. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Why not compare with Djokovic's 2008 AO instead? Djokovic beat prime Federer in the semis on that occasion too.
     
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  11. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks mate, 3 days off was a good rest! (i"m listening to electronic music and these 2 gif fit perfectly the tempo!)
    Indeed i just checked, Dodig lost the last 2 sets 6/0 6/2 ! No gas left!
     
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  12. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic. Safin would've been able to break Djokovic's defenses from time to time, but not over the course of an entire match. Djokovic's consistency would win out, whether in 4 or 5 sets.
     
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  13. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Pretty much.
     
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  14. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Safin gave Djokovic a beating at 2008 Wimbledon. A matchup issue, perhaps?
     
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  15. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Safin by a mile. How is this even a question?
     
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  16. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Took down Sampras in Slams (twice), including a US Open final in 2000.
    Beat Agassi in Slams (twice), including a huge win in 2004.
    Beat Kuerten at the FO when Guga was in his prime. And again at the AO the next year (the only time that Kuerten lost before the QF in a Slam that year).
    Beat Djokovic in Slams (twice)
    Took care of Hewitt, Roddick, Nalbandian (twice) in the Slams. Beat Ferrero at the French.
    Beat peak Federer in a non-clay Slam - the only time that Fed lost in a non-clay Slam in 2004-2007.

    Overrated.
     
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  17. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    I never said he wasn't a great player just overrated. He gets talked about like he's Federer, Sampras, Nadal, Borg etc when he's nowhere near.
     
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  18. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Cause he's often referred to when talking about peak level. Safin was inconsistent as hell but when he caught fire the dude could take on anyone.
     
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  19. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    LOL they played twice and Safin leads 6-0 as far as sets won. 2nd of those times was in 2008 Wimbledon right after Novak almost beat on fire Nadal on grass. So it was prime Djokovic vs past prime "grass is for cows" Safin on his worst surface. Looks like you have an agenda doesn't it?

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=D643&oId=S741
     
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  20. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Ok, so now Djokovic WAS indeed an amazing player and all wins over him before 2011 are just as valid? GREAT. Agreed :) #22-17 :oops:
     
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  21. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Exactly. Plus 2005 AO semi Safin was way better than 2008 Safin.
     
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  22. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Yeah Novak was great starting in 2007 or else he wouldn't make a slam final, get to number #3 in the world and beat prime Nadal and prime Fed in important matches at masters events. Of course Nadal is better than Djokovic so far. Will see how they rank when their careers are closer to being done. I don't know why do you think I wouldn't agree.
     
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  23. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Then we'll agree to disagree because 2011 Djokovic>>2005 Safin to me. Sorry. At the end of the day Safin was a baseliner and I don't see him staying out there the 4, 5, SIX hours it takes to beat 2011-2012 Novak.
     
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  24. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Safin was out there for nearly 5 (?) hours against peak Federer. Older Federer was only beaten by Djokovic in 3 tough sets remember.
     
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  25. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Federer's game is not nearly as taxing on his opponents. Who was that (a player) that recently said playing Federer is completely different to playing Nadal and Djokovic because with them, they make you run a lot more and the points are more physical? It's not the same. I'd rather play Federer for 4 hours than Novak, that's for sure. Funny how all of a sudden everyone is downplaying how good Djokovic is when it has something to do with Federer. Like I said, I'm a Safin fan, but my microwave stays hot longer after I make popcorn than he does. It's laughable to think he would blow 2011 Djokovic off ANY court.
     
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  26. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    In 2005 Safin lasted till 9-7 in the 5th to beat "I only lose on clay Slams" prime Federer which shows that Safin could last long time. In 2004 AO Safin had bunch of long matches that he survived before he got to his 2nd AO final:

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sa/M/Marat-Safin.aspx?t=pa&y=2004&m=s&e=580#

    I don't know where you got the idea that Safin can't play long matches.

    Just admit that your agenda is as follows:

    Prime 2011/2012 Nadal who kept getting to final of almost every tournament he enterd lost 7 finals in the row to Djokovic only because Djokovic was playing god like tennis that was higher level than prime Federer ever faced when he was dominating (lets pretend past his prime 2011 Fed didn't beat 2011 Djoko at FO and then didn't have two match points against him at USO).
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
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  27. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    That's probably because Federer is hitting more winners past you - unless you're one of the top 4 and can reach almost any ball. But regardless I don't necessarily think Safin would beat Djokovic but saying either would murder the other is crazy IMO.
     
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  28. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Sorry "bruh" my name isn't Dudeski, so I don't have an "agenda". 2011 Novak is a better player than 2005 Safin at the AO. It's just that simple. I realize that for your kind, everything has to come back to Federer or Nadal, but this thread is about Djokovic and Safin in the real world where men live.
     
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  29. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Mike does have a point about Djokovic's fitness playing a role in the outcome. You know for a guy in his peak, Federer's fitness was pretty lame. He was huffing and puffing in 4th set and getting more and more desperate to end points quickly. Safin, despite having a much tougher passage to the SF than Federer, had more energy than Federer in that 5th set.

    Djokovic has a way of grinding heavy hitting opponents to death slowly. It would obviously be an competitive match, but Djokovic is not as far from Safin as people think.
     
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  30. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Ok good job on backing up your argument with facts and such.
     
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  31. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Exactly. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they are, there's no way to know. But I see 2011 Novak as a superior player. It took God mode Federer to beat him ON CLAY after a ridiculously long winning streak where Novak was tired. I mean COME ON! It's really not rocket science. Safin had immense talent but I favor Djokovic over 5 sets. Would you really rather Safin play for your life than Djokovic? :shock: Don't stand too near me, I might get struck down too when he loses. :lol:
     
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  32. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    I think Safin definitely had the game to beat Djokovic, but he would have to do it in 4 sets and Djokovic in 2011 toggled fighter mode, so that would be very difficult.

    I was more impressed with Safin's shotmaking than Djokovic', but people need to give the 4 time AO champion some respect. Tennis is not all about talent and you can't argue against results.
     
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  33. Incognito

    Incognito Hall of Fame

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    Safin had actually a more rounded game than Novak. He could volley quite well, had very good touch + powerful serve and groundies.
     
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  34. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    These are things I certainly agree on. I just think Djokovic would have to be playing at least a bit demurely to lose in 4 sets. If 2011 AO Novak is playing well, the world is in trouble. That's just how it was.
     
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  35. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    I think the fact that Safin got to 3 AO finals (including 1 win) plus won eight 5 setters in his career (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sa/M/Marat-Safin.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=580#) at AO proves:

    1. Safin is great at AO.
    2. Safin can win 5 setters at AO and has no fitness problems there.

    So what we need to answer is:

    1. Can 2005 semi Safin beat top opponents at AO? YES! Hello 2005 semi vs peak Federer!
    2. Can 2005 semi Safin beat peak Djokovic? Good question. At 2008 Wimbledon vs close to peak Djokovic (who won 2008 AO, lost at 2008 FO semi vs peak clay Nadal, and almost beat peak grass Nadal at Queens) Safin won in straight sets. Safin was nowhere near his 2004/2005 form that year. So draw your own conclusion I guess.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
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  36. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    This argument is pure bullcrap. "Close to peak" Djokovic? Djokovic's ability to randomly underperform from 2008-2010 was staggering. He was the 2nd best claycourter by a HUGE margin in 2009, lost several competitive matches to Nadal in the clay season while Federer was busy being a mug. French open rolled around and the guy got bounced by Kohlschrieber in straight sets. So, nice try, but this argument is crap. Djokovic was extremely volatile in those years, much like Safin throughout his career. We all know what happens when people bring up Safin's terrible losses up, his fanboys stick fingers in their ears and cry about Safin not trying, being injured, or partying too much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
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  37. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    There either is, or isn't a Djokovic 2.0 according to you guys, which is it?

    [​IMG]
     
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  38. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    My point is just that it would be competitive. I could't say who would or wouldn't win. I just disagreed with Safin getting murdered when 29 year old Federer wasn't even murdered by Djokovic.
     
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  39. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Absolutely, correct. Things are never that simple in pro tennis .
     
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  40. Lavs

    Lavs Professional

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    not even a debate - Safin hands down
     
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  41. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Nice try but everyone knows that Djokovic lost it mentally in 2009 FO because of the 4 hour loss to Nadal in Madrid semi. 2008 Novak didn't have that kind of devastating loss to deal with unless the Queens close loss to Nadal did it for him. Not sure about that one. Anyway, 2008 was Novak's 2nd best year probably or about even with 2013. He won AO, MTC, IW, Rome, So we are not talking a crappy year. Plus he had semi in USO (Federer) and FO (Nadal). So on slams only the best players and Safin(?) stopped him in 2008.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
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  42. Incognito

    Incognito Hall of Fame

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    Just how many Peak years does Nadal have in your opinion? I've seen you write Federer was peak 2004-2007? But then you say djokovic only has one (2011).
     
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  43. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Once you dip your fingers in too many pies, you forget what cake tastes like I suppose. He seems lost in his previous 50 arguments.
     
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  44. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Djokovic never took a set off Safin in the only 2 matches they played (1st round, 2005 AO and 2nd round, 2008 Wimbledon).
     
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  45. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Djokovic losing in straight sets was still a huge upset. It came out of nowhere. He was only 21 years old at the time and played like crap. Only the most dishonest fanboy would call that "close to peak Djokovic" in an attempt make his favorite player look great.
     
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  46. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    And Hrbary is 3-1 vs Nadal :rolleyes:
     
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  47. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    I'd say Djokovic in 4.

    He didn't drop a set against Berdych, Federer and Murray and lost only one match on outdoor HC in 2011.
     
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  48. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    Safin would not had any tolerance for Djokovic's court antics and bravado.
     
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  49. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Nadal's peak:
    I use 2008 for clay and grass as advocated by Mustard.
    For hard courts obviously it would be 2011 and 2013 given that Nadal was making all those hard court finals.

    Novak's peak:
    2011 obviously. Duh!

    Federer's peak:
    2003 MTC till 2007 AO. Obviously the rest of 2007 is still prime but given that he lost to Canas back to back at IW and Miami you can't really say he was in his peak after winning 2007 AO in straight sets.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
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  50. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    I don't know about that. He probably gets along with Djokovic better than Federer, Nadal, or anyone else on tour currently. I think he used to go skiing with Djokovic.
     
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